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AusGAF 11 - Twice the price, a year late but still moving forward
- Thread starter Kritz
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What happened?
Looks like classes are back on today even though the government has advised staying in your homes
The problem with most job applications is that you receive no feedback, so it's kind of like banging your head against a wall and hoping that on the next occasion your head actually smashes through the concrete. I'd love to know where I'm going right/wrong but all I can do is keep banging away.
At least that's how I'm starting to feel about the whole process. Sigh.
At least that's how I'm starting to feel about the whole process. Sigh.
Yeah, it can be hard to know why you don't get an interview. The ones that you do get interviews for you should be able to get feedback for. Some will offer it, but some you'll have to ask for. Always do, it's worth it.
Edit: To give an example, I'd read some advice that you shouldn't say anything negative about your current employer in a job interview. So I had this interview for a job I thought I was perfect for, and didn't get it. The recruiter said the employer complained that it was unclear to them why I wanted to leave my current job. Had I gone into some detail rather than "I'm just looking for another challenge", it might have helped my cause. I still think you shouldn't be overly critical of your current employer, but being clear about your own motivation for looking for work is important too.
Edit: To give an example, I'd read some advice that you shouldn't say anything negative about your current employer in a job interview. So I had this interview for a job I thought I was perfect for, and didn't get it. The recruiter said the employer complained that it was unclear to them why I wanted to leave my current job. Had I gone into some detail rather than "I'm just looking for another challenge", it might have helped my cause. I still think you shouldn't be overly critical of your current employer, but being clear about your own motivation for looking for work is important too.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I hate applying for jobs in Scotland. Not really been bothered with applying for work in Australia so far. But it's that whole "put a lot of effort into this application form knowing that it won't actually get read, and then wait 3-6 weeks to see if anyone cares enough to get back to you" thing that really pisses me off. Especially when 2-3 months later you see the same job re-posted because they either couldn't find anyone, or because their chosen candidate sucked.
Whereas in Taiwan I've walked into three non-teaching jobs now simply by: living in Taiwan for a long period of time, being a native English speaker with near-perfect writing skills, and having an IT-related degree with marketing experience. But as employers are legally forced to pay foreigners a minimum of NT$45,000 (AU$1860) a month, it's impossible to find work at smaller companies. Especially when you consider that a Taiwanese graduate will work for NT$30,000 (AU$1240) a month.
Whereas in Taiwan I've walked into three non-teaching jobs now simply by: living in Taiwan for a long period of time, being a native English speaker with near-perfect writing skills, and having an IT-related degree with marketing experience. But as employers are legally forced to pay foreigners a minimum of NT$45,000 (AU$1860) a month, it's impossible to find work at smaller companies. Especially when you consider that a Taiwanese graduate will work for NT$30,000 (AU$1240) a month.
You should always ask for feedback.It's worth noting that you are legally able to get any records/notes made about you during an interview.
If you're interviewing for a position, once that position is formally offered to you, all interview notes become employee records are are exempt from the Privacy Act 1988.
But if you are unsuccessful, you can make a request under the Privacy Act to see what the interviewer has recorded, the company is legal compelled to provide this to you. It only covered recorded information. notes and so on, so if nothing was formally recorded and everything was just done verbally, there is nothing that have to provide. But most companies with HR procedures have to complete some sort of candidate check list, which scores/rates each person interviewed.
Source: did Privacy Act training a few weeks ago
Yea Australia is in a weird spot when it comes to job applications.
Finding a job in Belgium was fairly easy, and you'd always get a response even if you were unsuccessful, a lot of the times they'd even call to say you weren't what they were looking for and explain it properly. Whereas in Australia I applied for a job at Aldi and got denied because I wasn't qualified enough
, not to discredit people working a Aldi but it's not rocket science.
Australia is just soul crushing.
Edit: my work was recently looking for 4 more people but only ended up hiring 2 because no one applied apparently. Go figure.
Finding a job in Belgium was fairly easy, and you'd always get a response even if you were unsuccessful, a lot of the times they'd even call to say you weren't what they were looking for and explain it properly. Whereas in Australia I applied for a job at Aldi and got denied because I wasn't qualified enough
I worked at in Aldi at home while I was in school
Australia is just soul crushing.
Edit: my work was recently looking for 4 more people but only ended up hiring 2 because no one applied apparently. Go figure.
bodyboarder
Member
ClivePwned
Member
I can't give you advice on what to do in interviews that will get you a job
i can tell you what not to do.
Research the company you're looking to work at. Know what they do. Nothing will kill your chances than showing you have no idea what it is the company does. It also helps if you don't just spout their wikipedia entry back at them.
Don't have a boilerplate resume and cover letter. They need to be tailored to each job. You can have a starting point but don't feature extraneous stuff that isn't relevant to the job you're applying for.
you will get further by having someone you know who already in the company passing on your details to HR. This is not a guarantee of a job but it's a massive first hurdle you might just overcome.
check your spelling and grammar before you submit. Don't write like it's a text or a facebook post, even if the job is relatively informal. even cool places like to know you can be professional.
The job ad will have lots of buzzwords and industry-specific jargon in there. You need to subtely work these into your cover letter and resume (especially if its a larger company who uses god-awful machine filtering systems built into satan-engines like Taleo)
interviews.
Prepare beforehand. I cannot stress this enough. Some companies have terrible hiring practices and often just google interview questions before hand.
It helps to have an idea of how you would answer, don't read a prepared answer because they want to believe you know your shit. Have your resume and their job description printed out so you can refer to it. sometimes, they will just go through your history and you want to make sure nothing they say throws you.
Under no circumstances should you ever make them feel your heart isn't in the role you're talking about, that you see it as a short term gig or a fast track to something better. It's a 'marvellous opportunity' or 'career advance.' Not " I will be your boss in six months.
If you're moving from another industry that might seem more 'glamourous' be very careful when you get asked why you're transitioning and whether you would ever go back.
The really stupid ones will ask you:
What are your weaknesses (you are fucked either way), where do you see yourself in five years (you have to show some ambition because unless its government job, no one wants time-servers),
The smart-ass ones will ask about round manhole covers- it won't fall in. They read Microsoft used to do this so they think it's important for you to have a good answer for flipping burgers. The proper point of this sort of question is to see how you evaluate a problem but of course, you're probably getting asked this by really green recruiters or just people who aren't in HR, but have to hire someone for the first time.
Yeah, lots of first interviews are conducted by people who really have no idea what it is they're hiring for. They're just ticking off a list made by someone who (all things being equal) does.
Do not bullshit on your resume and 'upgrade' your previous job descriptions.
You know when you've blown the interview when they are taken aback by one of your answers. You are seriously fucked then and you will only realise this later. If you answer and they suddenly seem flustered, this is the point you lost it.
Be confident, but not too confident. Don't be meek but don't be an alpha male.
Self-deprecating in a job interview is not good. If you're not a naturally funny person, keep the jokes to a minumum. Don't assume everyone reads the same books, plays the same games, watches the same movies or listens to the same music.
be really, really careful about any negativity at all. Don't trash your former employers or co-workers, even if they were the top echelon of the Third Reich. Nothing about people treating you bad or anything like that. You want new challenges and want to work with the best (your prospective employer) not "they were the worst, let me tell you."
Send an email to your interviewer within 24 hours of the interviewer thanking them for their time. Leave it a few weeks before sending a follow-up if you have heard nothing else. Also, once you've been told "thanks, but no thanks." Move on and don't bother arguing.
You can ask for feedback, you won't get it.
HR people are the lowest scum on the planet. They are truly 'B' Ark material.
I am truly a legend at shooting myself in the foot in interviews. I blame no-one but my self.
i can tell you what not to do.
Research the company you're looking to work at. Know what they do. Nothing will kill your chances than showing you have no idea what it is the company does. It also helps if you don't just spout their wikipedia entry back at them.
Don't have a boilerplate resume and cover letter. They need to be tailored to each job. You can have a starting point but don't feature extraneous stuff that isn't relevant to the job you're applying for.
you will get further by having someone you know who already in the company passing on your details to HR. This is not a guarantee of a job but it's a massive first hurdle you might just overcome.
check your spelling and grammar before you submit. Don't write like it's a text or a facebook post, even if the job is relatively informal. even cool places like to know you can be professional.
The job ad will have lots of buzzwords and industry-specific jargon in there. You need to subtely work these into your cover letter and resume (especially if its a larger company who uses god-awful machine filtering systems built into satan-engines like Taleo)
interviews.
Prepare beforehand. I cannot stress this enough. Some companies have terrible hiring practices and often just google interview questions before hand.
It helps to have an idea of how you would answer, don't read a prepared answer because they want to believe you know your shit. Have your resume and their job description printed out so you can refer to it. sometimes, they will just go through your history and you want to make sure nothing they say throws you.
Under no circumstances should you ever make them feel your heart isn't in the role you're talking about, that you see it as a short term gig or a fast track to something better. It's a 'marvellous opportunity' or 'career advance.' Not " I will be your boss in six months.
If you're moving from another industry that might seem more 'glamourous' be very careful when you get asked why you're transitioning and whether you would ever go back.
The really stupid ones will ask you:
What are your weaknesses (you are fucked either way), where do you see yourself in five years (you have to show some ambition because unless its government job, no one wants time-servers),
The smart-ass ones will ask about round manhole covers- it won't fall in. They read Microsoft used to do this so they think it's important for you to have a good answer for flipping burgers. The proper point of this sort of question is to see how you evaluate a problem but of course, you're probably getting asked this by really green recruiters or just people who aren't in HR, but have to hire someone for the first time.
Yeah, lots of first interviews are conducted by people who really have no idea what it is they're hiring for. They're just ticking off a list made by someone who (all things being equal) does.
Do not bullshit on your resume and 'upgrade' your previous job descriptions.
You know when you've blown the interview when they are taken aback by one of your answers. You are seriously fucked then and you will only realise this later. If you answer and they suddenly seem flustered, this is the point you lost it.
Be confident, but not too confident. Don't be meek but don't be an alpha male.
Self-deprecating in a job interview is not good. If you're not a naturally funny person, keep the jokes to a minumum. Don't assume everyone reads the same books, plays the same games, watches the same movies or listens to the same music.
be really, really careful about any negativity at all. Don't trash your former employers or co-workers, even if they were the top echelon of the Third Reich. Nothing about people treating you bad or anything like that. You want new challenges and want to work with the best (your prospective employer) not "they were the worst, let me tell you."
Send an email to your interviewer within 24 hours of the interviewer thanking them for their time. Leave it a few weeks before sending a follow-up if you have heard nothing else. Also, once you've been told "thanks, but no thanks." Move on and don't bother arguing.
You can ask for feedback, you won't get it.
HR people are the lowest scum on the planet. They are truly 'B' Ark material.
I am truly a legend at shooting myself in the foot in interviews. I blame no-one but my self.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I would imagine that being limited to 6 months of working for one company would put the brakes on 90% of my job applications in Australia.
And I'm actually quite good at interviews. My main problem is getting one.
And I'm actually quite good at interviews. My main problem is getting one.
Darren870
Member
Contract. Thats what I did when I came here. Most contracts are 6 months anyways.
Then if you want to stay find someone that will sponsor you.
Or you can do pub/cafe work. They always higher foreigners.
Clive that is one solid post. Thanks for that!
On my previous question, has anyone ever done career counselling or is any of you a counsellor. I'm more than happy to spend the money if it leads me to at least having somewhat of a clue as to what I want to do. I don't however want to be asked what I'd like to do, as I have no fucking clue.
On my previous question, has anyone ever done career counselling or is any of you a counsellor. I'm more than happy to spend the money if it leads me to at least having somewhat of a clue as to what I want to do. I don't however want to be asked what I'd like to do, as I have no fucking clue.
Heaps of job ads say you must be a citizen or resident or some other blah blah, so you'll be able to separate out the majority that definitely don't want you from the ones that forgot to mention they don't want you.
I usually don't have an issue with interviews, but I'm not even progressing that far so far. I've applied for about 8 government positions and 8 private sector positions in the last two months and I've progressed to the next stage a grand total of twice so far.
It's either my transcript, which during my first few years of uni were disastrous, or it's my answers to their selection criteria which are rubbish, or it's some other fact that I can't somehow discern.
It's either my transcript, which during my first few years of uni were disastrous, or it's my answers to their selection criteria which are rubbish, or it's some other fact that I can't somehow discern.
Job agencies can be the worst in this regard, they often have a list of keywords they look for, if you don't have at least a few of those in your application you may get tossed aside.
Yeah I'm currently feeling that looking for a new job and it's not going well. Even just not getting a call or email saying I didn't get the job is super annoying, seeing most friends get a decent job purely because of family connections or being friendly with a current employee. No luck for a few weeks and starting to get to me, not horsebackibg off your current situation just wanted to rant also >.<
What job?
Traffic surveys for an Engineering firm.
Or, sit on the side of the road and count cars as they go past.
It's not all so bad, because at least I can listen to audiobooks while I work.
Dealing with recruitment agents was the reason I left lucrative IT contracting and went for a permanent position. I just couldn't face the endless bullshit and lies, especially when I was working short term contracts, so would have the start the cycle of dealing with agents again every 8-10 weeks.
On a couple of occasions, I was put up for roles that sounded well suited to my skills, only to have the interview and find out the position was nothing like it had been explained and I was in no way qualified for (or wanted) it.
I don't know how if this applies as much outside IT or programming jobs, but from my experience, go through a recruiter. Decent ones charge you nothing (they charge the employer instead) and they have brilliant connections.
EDIT; What great timing for this post! I had a solid experience with my recruiter but I hope I'm not in the minority...
EDIT; What great timing for this post! I had a solid experience with my recruiter but I hope I'm not in the minority...
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I've seen a bunch of temp jobs that I could fit into. But I don't like the song and dance of applying for work.
I'm considering doing some farm work in the next few months. I don't imagine the application process for them would be that hard.
I emailed one company to see if they'd disqualify people on working holidays, the response was "if the government says you can work then it's ok for us". On the other hand, a lot of gumtree adverts stress on their first sentence "No working holidays". I imagine that areas like Gold Coast are far beyond the saturation point for working holiday people.
ClivePwned
Member
I would be willing to bet money you are ;(
I could fill a book with HR cuntage I have witnesses/experienced but I would likely die from having no salt left in my body.
using recruiters- I hope you like lining some slimy cunt's pockets. my ex-initially got a Qld Govt job as a short contract thing where she was getting $40 an hour but the company was getting paid $70 an hour for her labor.
Aarglefarg
Member
Did anyone else watch the Four Corners episode a few months ago about Job Services Australia being terrible?
Darren870
Member
I've seen a bunch of temp jobs that I could fit into. But I don't like the song and dance of applying for work.
I'm considering doing some farm work in the next few months. I don't imagine the application process for them would be that hard.
I emailed one company to see if they'd disqualify people on working holidays, the response was "if the government says you can work then it's ok for us". On the other hand, a lot of gumtree adverts stress on their first sentence "No working holidays". I imagine that areas like Gold Coast are far beyond the saturation point for working holiday people.
Can get like $26 an hour picking grapes on the farm in Adelaide. Plus accommodation!
Yea, I would imagine the gold coast is a bit over saturated. I never had any problems with the working holiday visa though. One or two said no thanks as the work was over 6 months, but others were fine with it.
Wait, don't you have like a law degree?
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Ruthless_Barbarian
Member
Anyone going for Avengers tonight?
ClivePwned
Member
no, but this time tomorrow it'll truly be the age of ultron.
the age of ultron is 18 years in some countries
endlessflood
Member
Yep, pumped for it, seeing it at 8:30 tonight in 3D.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
So that makes you what, two ages of ultron? Three?
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I'm looking into some stuff in Northern Queensland. Banana farming, fruit picking, etc.
Three months of that and I'll be eligible for a second year visa. As I turn 31 in December I'll need to get that "3 months of regional work" done quickly.
Ruthless_Barbarian
Member
Why would you do that to yourself?
There's another one? I haven't kept up with anything marvel related since the first captain America. All the movies seem to have blurred together for me.
They're all somewhat connected right?
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Fuck 3D movies. All that hires quality goes out the window IMO. The only 3D I even remotely enjoyed was Halo CE Anniversary edition on a Samsung 3D LED. I still only wanted to play through the game once in 3D.
ClivePwned
Member
in that range, certainly.
Tomorrow night instead.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
The only two movies I've seen where 3D actually improved the movie were Gravity and Prometheus.
I saw Gravity in 4DX and the moving seats made took that movie to a whole new level. Shame about the smoke though. Of any gimmick you can add to cinemas, one that blocks the screen should never have passed the initial proposal.
And I have a special place in my heart - and lungs - for The Avengers. I put off going to the hospital with a pulmonary embolism to see it. If that shit had sucked and I died, I would have been so angry that I'd have bitched about it on GAF from beyond the grave.
I saw Gravity in 4DX and the moving seats made took that movie to a whole new level. Shame about the smoke though. Of any gimmick you can add to cinemas, one that blocks the screen should never have passed the initial proposal.
And I have a special place in my heart - and lungs - for The Avengers. I put off going to the hospital with a pulmonary embolism to see it. If that shit had sucked and I died, I would have been so angry that I'd have bitched about it on GAF from beyond the grave.
ClivePwned
Member
Fat lot of good that does these days.
seriously? then we're all fucked
let's commiserate by watching the german version of IT Crowd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggpFXA-CkLw#t=166
http://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/news/15576-Reality-check-for-law-graduates
'Lieu quoted recent figures, which show that out of 12,000 graduates only 700 (6%) were recruited by large law firms in the past year."
Yep advanced tickets Gold Class. Shit gonna be good.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
My girlfriend studied law at university.
The "best" job she's ever had was being an admin assistant at Motorola Solutions.
The "best" job she's ever had was being an admin assistant at Motorola Solutions.
Fat lot of good that does these days.
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!
Planet_JASE
Member
Not entirely true. The correct answer for this question is:
a) that someone highlighted an issue, you took on feedback, the steps you took to correct your behaviour, how you monitored and maintained this new behaviour and and how this has combined with the rest of your awesome skills to make you much, much better.
-or-
b) you self evaluated a deficiency in your skills, the steps you took to correct your behaviour, how you monitored and maintained this new behaviour and and how this has combined with the rest of your awesome skills to make you much, much better.
Commonly used answers to avoid:
a) I am perfect and don't have any weaknesses!! [interviewer wraps up interview quickly, never contacts you ever again]
b) "I guess I [insert any type of weakness here, it doesn't matter how big or small]." interviewee ends answer here.
The important part of the answer is that a weakness in your skill set (as long as it isn't a major, major problem i.e. I steal stuff and stay back after work to take massive craps in the top drawer or my co-worker's desks) was noticed - usually by receiving feedback or noting an area of your work that could be improved - that you made a plan to bridge the gap of expectation and reality, set yourself reasonable goals, put quality checks in place, self-monitored/asked for feeback (or both) and how you changed and maintained your behaviour. Lastly you mention the positive impact (give specific quantitative details of improvement. If you have figures give figures e.g. Improved sales skills: Q1-$1000 -> Q2-$2500) that this has had on that particular area and how it combined with the rest of your skill to produce a better overall package.
Realistically, you use it as a stealth brag thread. You had a problem, you either noticed it yourself or took on feedback (it's a win, either way), you changed your behaviour, you can self-evaluate and monitor your own performance and improved yourself. You are now a better candidate that has also let their prospective employers know that they are interested in self-improvement, can take feedback and respond professionally to it and are willing to change behaviour for the benefit of the company.
That's how you answer that question.
codswallop
Member
Time to get all the jobless uni law graduates together to sue the universities for leading them to believe they'd get a job.
Good to know >.<
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
How expensive are tuition fees in Australia? We don't pay anything in Scotland.
I ask this because if you think this deluge of law graduates is bad, the number of sociology and psychology graduates Scottish universities pump out every year must be astronomical.
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