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[endlessflood]

Bern did you play RDR with auto-targeting (the default) or manual targeting?

 

[legend166]

Finished Red Dead Redemption.

I'm glad I played it. There's enough to enjoy, even if those moments don't arise because of any particular gameplay system. Parts like the first ride into Mexico as Jose Gonzales plays are brilliantly executed yet those moments aren't enough to really carry the whole experience. Very little skill is required - just pump enough time into any aspect of the game and you'll be successful.

There were two events in the game that arose as a result of the procedural systems present in the game that were great:

1) In the first of the many random encounters with a 'damsel in distress' on the highway that is actually an ambush, I disposed of all the bandits and went to chase down the woman as she was running away. I was about the lasso her as she was pleading for forgiveness, claiming that she'd been unwillingly coerced into the dupe by the bandits. Just as she was pleading for her life, a cougar jumped out of a nearby bush and mauled her to death. Fucking hilarious.

2) In the 'escapee running from two lawmen' random encounter, I shot the escapee as he ran towards me. The two lawmen mosey up to the dead body to thank me for my assistance and just as they arrive at the scene, a wolf charges in from nowhere and I shoot it in Deadeye mode, inches away from the sherrif. The lawmen thanked me for my last minute save and I felt like the fucking champ!

Those two moments, lasting about 5 minutes in total, were the most fun I had in the >20 hour chunk of time I put into Red Dead.

Apart from that, the game relies too much on staged sequences to deliver both the atmosphere and the story. I remember walking through the woods and coming across a man crying over the body of his dead wife. He couldn't be spoken to but once Marston walks away, a gunshot is heard and upon returning to the scene his body is lying next to that of his wife. Embellishments like that are cleverly implemented but from a gameplay perspective they don't really engage the player, rather just add another layer of paint to the tapestry. That is Red Dead Redemption's central flaw - it isn't so much a game as it is a very finely crafted world with minimal interaction. Sandbox games are at their best when there is a high level of interactivity with infinite outcomes depending on the players input - games like Crackdown and Just Cause 2 are the best examples. Red Dead instead relies on puppet strings behind the scenes to deliver the key moments of the whole experience and asks little of the player.

As silly as it sounds, the gameplay-heavy parts that require a high level of player input stand in stark contrast to the dusty plodding atmosphere of the game. Yes, realism in games should rarely be a key design goal, but with a billion turret sequences and encounters when Marston takes out 20 dudes in 10 seconds, the accurately recreated western frontier quickly falls apart and it turns into a circus show.

I stand by my case that is a oft-boring game with exceptionally high production values. It did a poor job of stressing the key beats of Marston's story and I was very rarely sure of the significance of certain characters or events. The majority of the game is spent in transit, and unlike GTA, a horse-riding mechanic just doesn't provide an on-the-moment sense of enjoyment like hurtling around in a car does. I guess they make up for that by peppering the highways and game trails with random stranger quests, but once you've completed enough of each individual quest type they all get pretty stale.

The game shines when it captures the spirit of the west, even if that mythology is intrinsically slow-paced and plodding. Sunsets and sweeping vistas are nice and all but cannot themselves make for a good game.

Overall, I did sorta have fun but I won't play a sequel. Considering how low the enjoyment:time investment ratio is in these new grittier style games from Rockstar, I will be very hesitant with the inevitable GTAV.

Well put. I completely agree.

 

[Bernbaum]

Bern did you play RDR with auto-targeting (the default) or manual targeting?

I played with the automatic targeting and admit I wasn't aware it could be turned off although I recall tinkering around with the aiming options in GTA.

The split-second quick aim that enables Marston to pick off baddies at an impressive range before the reticle loses traction with the target certainly sped up the combat and I did exploit it. The deadeye mode suited the game just fine and was consistently satisfying with most of the weapons on offer.

It's worth noting that by game's end I didn't fully understand the quick-draw duel system yet I won most of them without hassle.

There's been a handful of games I played in 2010 that I almost immediately forgot upon completion as I'd already moved onto the next thing. Any game that makes people think and talk about game design as a whole can't be a bad thing so maybe that's testament to Red Dead's real strengths. Red Dead has stuck in my mind and made me think about whether my reserved enjoyment of the game is diagnostic of the intrinsic limits of sandbox games at large, or whether I've just gotten tired of the genre.

I jumped into Red Dead right off the back of AC:B so there might be a bit of player fatigue, but there's distinct aspects of the game I can point to as flaws.

By comparison, Halo Reach didn't gel with me on my first play but I'm hard-pressed to point my finger at any particular weakness. In my experience, that usually means I was playing a game wrong or wasn't in the right mood at the time.

Perhaps I should give Reach one final play to see out the year...

 

[remz]

Second, day-after-drinking poops are amazing. Especially after you were drinking beer the night before.

amazing is not how I'd describe my day after drinking poops... unless you mean amazingly awful.

 

[endlessflood]

I played with the automatic targeting and admit I wasn't aware it could be turned off although I recall tinkering around with the aiming options in GTA.

In both GTA IV and RDR I honestly can't understand why auto-targeting is the default because the manual targeting in both is actually brilliant. I played GTA IV the first time with auto-targeting and the combat was a chore, but on my second play through I used the manual system and absolutely loved the combat. By the time RDR came along I'd learned my lesson and played it with the manual targeting system and again I absolutely loved it. I think if the combat system is strong it really changes the whole complexion of a game (since combat is such a massive part of the overall experience).

The fault lies with rockstar for not having the confidence to make manual targeting the default. I think most people just assume that since the default is auto that the manual control system must be clunky but as I said it actually feels really good. I don't know if that would have changed your opinion of RDR (I've never tried the auto targeting in RDR) but I suspect it might have if my own experiences are anything to go by. I suspect it might have lessened your criticism about the interactivity of the RDR world (an area where I think the auto-targeting really detracts).

My main criticism of RDR was the way the pace slowed down so much in Mexico, mainly due to the copious amounts of travel required to begin most of those missions. It really mde playing the game a chore during that period. Otherwise I was a big fan of RDR.

 

[Ydahs]

New 3DTV = omg awesome

And the Sony deal going on at the moment is great too! Going to download Wipeout HD, SSHD and Motorstorm to have my mind blown even further.

 

[Bernbaum]

In both GTA IV and RDR I honestly can't understand why auto-targeting is the default because the manual targeting in both is actually brilliant. I played GTA IV the first time with auto-targeting and the combat was a chore, but on my second play through I used the manual system and absolutely loved the combat. By the time RDR came along I'd learned my lesson and played it with the manual targeting system and again I absolutely loved it. I think if the combat system is strong it really changes the whole complexion of a game (since combat is such a massive part of the overall experience).

The fault lies with rockstar for not having the confidence to make manual targeting the default. I think most people just assume that since the default is auto that the manual control system must be clunky but as I said it actually feels really good. I don't know if that would have changed your opinion of RDR (I've never tried the auto targeting in RDR) but I suspect it might have if my own experiences are anything to go by. I suspect it might have lessened your criticism about the interactivity of the RDR world (an area where I think the auto-targeting really detracts).

My main criticism of RDR was the way the pace slowed down so much in Mexico, mainly due to the copious amounts of travel required to begin most of those missions. It really mde playing the game a chore during that period. Otherwise I was a big fan of RDR.

The gunplay was the one consistently rewarding part of RDR. I'd be interested to see how different it plays with manual targeting - of course shoot-outs would last longer and there'd be a higher level of challenge - but as I enjoyed that component of the game fine, I doubt playing it with the manual system would have improved the overall game for me.

A key issue is that the main form of transportation, horseriding, wasn't particularly fun. In Assassin's Creed, you've got the parkeur/climbing/platforming arrangement and in GTA-esque games the driving is always fun and on the edge (although GTAIV probably has the worst driving mechanics in the genre), but mashing A whilst trying to stick to the beaten path on a horse just doesn't really cut it. All that the horseriding really allowed was increased opportunity for random stranger encounters and the chance to oggle at the environments.

Finally, because I don't want to be a wet towel for those who enjoyed Red Dead, I really liked the extended denouement of Marston's life following the final encounter. For me, the bulk of the game felt like it ended with the

Spoiler

shoot out in the mountains

, and the final sections with John had him relive certain basic aspects like mustering cattle and breaking in horses. It was executed wonderfully well and had some emotional kick to it - more than was provided by the entirety of preceding gameplay. Again, Red Dead was at it's most memorable when providing staged 'moments' and not during any particular player-controlled sequence.

 

[elektrixx]

Just came back from seeing Jon Stevens play at a restaurant. That dude is great.

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

i have decided i am sick of my computer and would like to give it to someone else to somehow fix. Anyone know of any reputable places around melbourne?

 

[evlcookie]

i have decided i am sick of my computer and would like to give it to someone else to somehow fix. Anyone know of any reputable places around melbourne?

Myself and Rid are somewhat reputable

Most places would be closing soon for a ~2 week holiday break.

Also out of curiosity since we know it's fine when it idles. Install this - http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/ - and set fan speed to 50% save it as profile 1 and apply, you should hear the fan spin up. Play a game, if it crashes increase to 60, 70, 80 all the way until 100. If it still crashes then we know it's not a heat issue with your gpu :lol

 

[Choc]

Fable 3. Anyone else playing this?

I am about halfway through the game and whilst the first few hours it seems like a good game, the cracks are starting to show. First of all you are forced into the promises, there is no choice as to whether you make the promise or not which is what Molyneux said.

Second of all, there is just so much a focus of becoming King/Queen that the game feels a ton more rushed then the last two, and you seem to forever be being pushed. The game progresses rapidly and i am starting to think this is a less than 10 hour game (without side quests of course) which for Fable is interesting.

That said, the side quests are bloody hillarious and have his trademark humor. But i can see why people are not likeing to F3 as much as they did F2.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

So yesterday, I (finally) bought my fiance an engagement ring. It was the third biggest purchase I ever made, right behind my house and car.

Spoiler

Oh God, I'm going to have to sell all my games and most of my furniture to pay for the wedding, aren't I? :\

 

[jambo]

amazing is not how I'd describe my day after drinking poops... unless you mean amazingly awful.

Grog Bog

feelsgoodman.jpg

 

[Choc]

So yesterday, I (finally) bought my fiance an engagement ring. It was the third biggest purchase I ever made, right behind my house and car.

Spoiler

Oh God, I'm going to have to sell all my games and most of my furniture to pay for the wedding, aren't I? :\

traditionally, parents fork for it squirrel well done old chap though!

Just go into the process not being afraid to not invite people, it can get very expensive very fast.

Also, don't set dates without setting venue. Venue I was married in gave us the best of the best package for the lowest price as we had a 'low season' wedding.

 

[hamchan]

Fable 3. Anyone else playing this?

I am about halfway through the game and whilst the first few hours it seems like a good game, the cracks are starting to show. First of all you are forced into the promises, there is no choice as to whether you make the promise or not which is what Molyneux said.

Second of all, there is just so much a focus of becoming King/Queen that the game feels a ton more rushed then the last two, and you seem to forever be being pushed. The game progresses rapidly and i am starting to think this is a less than 10 hour game (without side quests of course) which for Fable is interesting.

That said, the side quests are bloody hillarious and have his trademark humor. But i can see why people are not likeing to F3 as much as they did F2.

You're not up to the really shitty part yet. Also yeah, the game feels either shorter or less epic than the previous games.

I hate Fable 3 so much >:-(

 

[giri]

I personally think that the vehicles in BFBC2 are pretty much as good as they come and can't think of a single MP game with better vehicles, but maybe I'm missing some obvious examples. Which ones would you hold up as being the benchmark?

Halo 3 & onwards. The vehicles feel a part of the game. I haven't played any beef games since vietnames boyfriend, 1942 came out, but that was the consistent theme through all their games. (it was like the 3rd battle fields game or something like that).

 

[DualShadow]

Fable 3. Anyone else playing this?

I am about halfway through the game and whilst the first few hours it seems like a good game, the cracks are starting to show. First of all you are forced into the promises, there is no choice as to whether you make the promise or not which is what Molyneux said.

Second of all, there is just so much a focus of becoming King/Queen that the game feels a ton more rushed then the last two, and you seem to forever be being pushed. The game progresses rapidly and i am starting to think this is a less than 10 hour game (without side quests of course) which for Fable is interesting.

That said, the side quests are bloody hillarious and have his trademark humor. But i can see why people are not likeing to F3 as much as they did F2.

Yeah you're forced to make the promises (not really a spoiler just in case)

Spoiler

but it's up to you whether you keep them or not.

Also some of the choices are crazy :lol


Unrelated Edit: Anyone got the details on how the 3G for an IPad works? I'm assuming you would have to sign up to a carrier for a data plan?

 

[Choc]

Yeah you're forced to make the promises (not really a spoiler just in case)

Spoiler

but it's up to you whether you keep them or not.

Also some of the choices are crazy :lol


Unrelated Edit: Anyone got the details on how the 3G for an IPad works? I'm assuming you would have to sign up to a carrier for a data plan?

ipad is pre-paid only. and thats a good thing

It uses a micro sim like the ip4

 

[DualShadow]

ipad is pre-paid only. and thats a good thing

It uses a micro sim like the ip4

Ah that's much better, I was imagining Telstra or whoever trying to get people to sign up to data plans and alike.

It's probably like phone credit and runs out in a month though.

 

[rass]

Ah that's much better, I was imagining Telstra or whoever trying to get people to sign up to data plans and alike.

It's probably like phone credit and runs out in a month though.

Optus do a 6 month, some amount of data plan. But yeah, mostly just single month.

moar linux questions!
I have a feeling I installed the wrong version of linux (x86/x64), how do I find out which version I have? I found the X log file but it revealed nothing to me haha. I ended up on Ubuntu studio, I've made it feel like home with a panel top and bottom, 2 workspaces and a few launchers. Love it.
But yeah, I don't know which version I downloaded haha :/

 

[Choc]

Ah that's much better, I was imagining Telstra or whoever trying to get people to sign up to data plans and alike.

It's probably like phone credit and runs out in a month though.

if you get one of the top 2 bundles on Telstra its 365 days

 

[Choc]

rass

uname -a

 

[Bernbaum]

So my secret santa got me a 6 pack of donuts from Donut King. They've been sat on my desk since last Wednesday 'cause I've been home sick, and they're stale as all hell.

Who the fuck gives donuts as a christmas gift?

Christmas RUINED.

 

[jambo]

Someone here at work gave Krispy Kreme's as a Kris Kringle, the person loved them. She shared them around the office.

 

[rass]

thanks Choc, I'll check it out when I get home.

Someone here at work gave Krispy Kreme's as a Kris Kringle, the person loved them. She shared them around the office.

My sister is giving some poor bastard a 30cm tall purple cock shaped drink bottle for kris kringle (friends, not colleagues). I found it in a bag of stuff from when I went to Pyramid Rock festival 4 years ago haha - don't even know why we had it. Along with shoes I thought I'd lost and a tshirt I thought my mum had thrown out.

 

[giri]

So my secret santa got me a 6 pack of donuts from Donut King. They've been sat on my desk since last Wednesday 'cause I've been home sick, and they're stale as all hell.

Who the fuck gives donuts as a christmas gift?

Christmas RUINED.

Dumb uninspired present.

Frankly, if i were you, i'd got spray paint their car, put grinch in big green letters.

 

[legend166]

So I started playing Epic Mickey....



...and I'm really enjoying it. I just got up to the main hub world. A lot of the problems I've heard about (camera, dodgy pointer, etc) are really overblown, I feel. I do agree the wait the paint brush is handled at times is annoying. They should have made it some floating thing instead of making it be in Mickey's hand. It would have helped a lot of the line of sight problems you get when trying to paint things.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I enjoyed a lot of it up until Mean Street. I'll be interested in seeing what you think of it after an hour or two more. My enjoyment level took a dramatic nose-dive following that.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

traditionally, parents fork for it squirrel well done old chap though!

Just go into the process not being afraid to not invite people, it can get very expensive very fast.

Also, don't set dates without setting venue. Venue I was married in gave us the best of the best package for the lowest price as we had a 'low season' wedding.

Not where my family's from. Where we're from, it's the groom's responsibility to put on the big party. Besides, I'm not going to ask my Mum to fork over that kind of money and my Dad probably can't afford it either. My prospective father-in-law could have been well off enough to have helped out a great deal, but he went and got divorced and then de-facto divorced. As a consequence, he does OK, but doesn't have a lot of cash lying around either. My prospective mother-in-law is a lady of leisure, but to accept money from her is to spend her partner's money, so it'd be a bit like accepting a gift from a stranger.

Feels bad, man.

Yeah, we're going to have to prune that guest list mercilessly.

 

[jambo]

Always a parental thing around here too, more so on the bride's side too.

 

[evlcookie]

So my secret santa got me a 6 pack of donuts from Donut King. They've been sat on my desk since last Wednesday 'cause I've been home sick, and they're stale as all hell.

Who the fuck gives donuts as a christmas gift?

Christmas RUINED.

I bet you it was the 6 free donuts that squirrel posted last week :lol

 

[legend166]

I take it that means no AusGAF invites?

 

[Gazunta]

It means JUST AusGAF invites.

 

[legend166]

It means JUST AusGAF invites.

I like your thinking.

 

[jambo]

Dibs on the hot cousin!

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

:lol

I'll see what I can do.

Spoiler

That means no

Dibs on the hot cousin!

All my female cousins are across the Pacific as we speak and they're unlikely to make it (though they do have a blanket invitation).

 

[Choc]

:lol

I'll see what I can do.

Spoiler

That means no

All my female cousins are across the Pacific as we speak and they're unlikely to make it (though they do have a blanket invitation).

squirrel you are already failing at this!

why do your cousins need to be there? They don't.....

Immediate and slightly extended family plus friends. Done.

seriously, it can turn into a mortgage if you are not careful. Also you want people who WANT to be there, not those who FEEL LIKE THEY NEED TO be there

 

[giri]

squirrel you are already failing at this!

why do your cousins need to be there? They don't.....

Immediate and slightly extended family plus friends. Done.

seriously, it can turn into a mortgage if you are not careful. Also you want people who WANT to be there, not those who FEEL LIKE THEY NEED TO be there

If you're culling cousins, you may as well cull friends (apart from best man etc).

Just have a big back yard party for everyone else.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

squirrel you are already failing at this!

why do your cousins need to be there? They don't.....

Immediate and slightly extended family plus friends. Done.

seriously, it can turn into a mortgage if you are not careful. Also you want people who WANT to be there, not those who FEEL LIKE THEY NEED TO be there

My cousins won't be there. The distances involved, plus the money for airfares is enough to ensure that (we're talking about trying to afford 1st world airline prices with 3rd world salaries). They're invited as a nice gesture more than anything.

It's more saying to the parents that, no, I'm not inviting your old next-door neighbours to my wedding. They creeped me out as a kid and I haven't spoken to them in years.

EDIT: Funnily enough, my groomsmen are my cousins. We're a pretty close-knit family.

 

[Choc]

AUSGAF UNITE, AM I RITE!

 

[endlessflood]

Halo 3 & onwards. The vehicles feel a part of the game. I haven't played any beef games since vietnames boyfriend, 1942 came out, but that was the consistent theme through all their games. (it was like the 3rd battle fields game or something like that).

I haven't played the Halo games so I'll take your word for it. Also in terms of Battlefield games, 1942 was the first one (way back in 2002):

• 1942
• Vietnam
• 2
• 2: Modern Combat
• 2142
• Bad Company
• Heroes
• 1943
• Bad Company 2
• Bad Company 2: Vietnam

If you really haven't played a Battlefield game since 1942 then definitely check them out, especially Bad Company 2. DICE have a bit of a background in racing games (Motorhead, Rallisport Challenge 1 and 2, Midtown Madness 3) and in fact Rallisport actually runs on one of the Battlefield engines (Refractor 2) so it's no surprise that the vehicles in Battlefield games generally handle pretty well.

Some examples of vehicle gameplay from BFBC2 (hard to find good vids unfortunately):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHZ8S2gGZYw&hd=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehLJBD4i74g&hd=1

 

[Shaneus]

If you really haven't played a Battlefield game since 1942 then definitely check them out, especially Bad Company 2. DICE have a bit of a background in racing games (Motorhead, Rallisport Challenge 1 and 2, Midtown Madness 3) and in fact Rallisport actually runs on one of the Battlefield engines (Refractor 2) so it's no surprise that the vehicles in Battlefield games generally handle pretty well.

Mind blown. Which BF game is that? I'm generally not a fan of FPS games but that might be enough to sway me :lol

 

[codswallop]

Protip: Make your wedding a "destination wedding" where you pay for close, immediate family and anyone else is welcome to come. Pro: Only those who really want to go will go. Con: Relatives might hang around for your honeymoon.

 

[legend166]

Whatever you do vks, don't have a A-list and a B-list, where the A-list gets invited to the wedding and reception but the B-list gets invited to the wedding and some crappy afternoon tea.

It's all or nothing.

 

[seanoff]

NBN will make a profit!!! Goldman Sachs are projecting a 7% annual return on investment.

in other news. a FTN connection with 12Mbps down and 1Mbps up has a wholesale price of $24 / month a 100Mbps connection will wholesale at $38 / month.


so $60 /mnth for 100mb connection at the retail end. I'll take that.

 

[legend166]

NBN will make a profit!!! Goldman Sachs are projecting a 7% annual return on investment.

in other news. a FTN connection with 12Mbps down and 1Mbps up has a wholesale price of $24 / month a 100Mbps connection will wholesale at $38 / month.


so $60 /mnth for 100mb connection at the retail end. I'll take that.

When's it going to be rolled out in metro areas? I heard Joooooolia saying something like 1.7 million premises will have it in June 2013. Considering that includes business, hospitals and whatever else, it doesn't sound like a lot. There's something like 8 million households in Australia.

 

[giri]

Whatever you do vks, don't have a A-list and a B-list, where the A-list gets invited to the wedding and reception but the B-list gets invited to the wedding and some crappy afternoon tea.

It's all or nothing.

No, you can do A-list and B-list, but have clear cut criteria, Immediate family onl & groomsmen/ brides maids. And thats it.

Particularly if you're up front and just say "i can't afford a big fancy reception". Its the snubbing that most people get shitty over, but if they aren't snubbed, then they have nothing to worry about.

 

[Choc]

When's it going to be rolled out in metro areas? I heard Joooooolia saying something like 1.7 million premises will have it in June 2013. Considering that includes business, hospitals and whatever else, it doesn't sound like a lot. There's something like 8 million households in Australia.

Suburban Sydney is last on the rollout list apparently. They expect the highest demand in Sydney so want to do it last to ensure the rest of hte network is ready.

:|

 

[Bernbaum]

Yeah I got roped into being a groomsman for next year.

What do they do? Social conventions like this normally go right over my head. I don't know what all the rules are, like what finger the ring goes on, and what the difference is between Mrs., Ms., and Miss. I only learned last week that it's rude to refer to someone's wife as their partner. Technicaly, 'Partner' is a broader catch-all term that can include people of various marital status, so from a scientific perspective, I think i'm perfectly correct.

Also, saying 'cunt' in front of chicks winds 'em up, apparently.

 

[giri]

Yeah I got roped into being a groomsman for next year.

What do they do? Social conventions like this normally go right over my head. I don't know what all the rules are, like what finger the ring goes on, and what the difference is between Miss, Ms., and Mrs. I only learned last week that it's rude to refer to someone's wife as their partner. Technicaly, 'Partner' is a broader catch-all term that can include people of various marital status, so from a scientific perspective, I think i'm perfectly correct.

Also, saying 'cunt' in front of chicks winds 'em up, apparently.

There's nothing for you to do, except maybe help plan the bucks party stuff, but even that's usually left entirely up to the best man. If the couple want you to do anything more, they'll ask. Give a speech, do a formal dance with them, any of that stuff, they'll explicitly ask you about.

Just make sure you don't dirty the suit before the photos and show up semi-sobre.