• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

AusGAF 2.0 - Twice the price, a year late but still moving forward

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bernbaum

Member
Good point Danoss - the GST argued for by the local guys will never be a big enough deterrent to put people off importing.

Wasn't there talk of some of the bigger retailers moving offshore in order to compete?

The existing government has declared their reluctance to implement protectionist policies and don't look like they'll do anything about it soon. I guess this is just what happens with globalization...
 

Gazunta

Member
Looking forward to the inevitable ACA / TT stories about Gerry Harvey taking a stand and protecting us from evil FOREIGN dodgy website dealers taking our jorbs. :(

Footage of foreign website owners will "just happen" to focus on Asians
 

MrSerrels

Member
Bernbaum said:
Good point Danoss - the GST argued for by the local guys will never be a big enough deterrent to put people off importing.

Wasn't there talk of some of the bigger retailers moving offshore in order to compete?

The existing government has declared their reluctance to implement protectionist policies and don't look like they'll do anything about it soon. I guess this is just what happens with globalization...

This sort of thing is just starting to go mainstream, and that has really hit retailers hard - hence the whinging. It'll be interesting to see the endgame of this whole exercise. It's kinda like an ultra globalization.
 

Omikron

Member
As a consumer, the way that stores try and save money by consistently screwing customers gives me the absolute shits. I would much rather go to some online seller that does its best to give me the product I want at a good price and speedy service from my office chair.

One of the most irritating of recent times was Woolworths not allowing the use of 'credit' when using a VISA debit card. I had a big whinge the first time I found that out, the staff member informed me it costs them $2 per transaction or some bollocks to have people use that option. I said, no problem, I won't return then.
 
importing is here to stay. You wait till Gerry Harvey and co realise how much stuff can go all digital in the future.

Also- fuck your support website, Samsung. It's still broken, you assholes
 

Clipper

Member
Hmm, I wonder what would happen if they did something like abolishing the GST for online sales within Australia of less than $1000 dollars. That would have the combined approach of giving 'equality' to the local retailers as well as encourage our local guys to actually bother with a website. Of course, it means a lot of lost tax dollars, which means it won't happen.

Danoss said:
One other point that I have heard is higher cost of items may be the effect of GST being charged at every point along the chain before it even gets to the store shelves. Charging GST at the point of sale in-store only may bring prices down and allow retailers to be more competitive.
I'm pretty sure it's not meant to happen that way. Each retailer in the chain is meant to claim back the GST that they paid on parts, etc. and not factor that into their mark-up. Thus, the final product only has one GST price on it, applied at that final stage of sale, and it's the consumer which pays in full.
 

HolyCheck

I want a tag give me a tag
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it looks like gametraders have taken to just buying shit from overseas much cheaper.. because their current prices are teh mads. support them, they are smarts.
 

Bernbaum

Member
I like what Gametraders do and the one near me looks to be pretty successful, given that they operate in a shopping centre which houses a JB and two EB's.

However...

I got into an argument with the store owner who refused to believe me when I told him there were two iterations of the GBA SP, a front- and back-lit model. He flat-out thought I was lying. It was one of the weirdest conversations I ever had. He was the self-assumed guru on international gaming hardware, and I was some guy who read something on wikipedia. As powerlessly confused as I was that someone would take such a trivial issue so seriously, I bit my tongue and bought my juvenile Zelda toy like a boss.
 

MrSerrels

Member
HolyCheck said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it looks like gametraders have taken to just buying shit from overseas much cheaper.. because their current prices are teh mads. support them, they are smarts.

Yeah, pretty sure they do that. Local publishers get shitty at them, but they have to survive. I think they're going in a very smart direction - making shopping about the experience. I love going into Gametraders, looking at the retro stuff, checking out the plushies, the anime, etc.
 
Bernbaum said:
I like what Gametraders do and the one near me looks to be pretty successful, given that they operate in a shopping centre which houses a JB and two EB's.

However...

I got into an argument with the store owner who refused to believe me when I told him there were two iterations of the GBA SP, a front- and back-lit model. He flat-out thought I was lying. It was one of the weirdest conversations I ever had. He was the self-assumed guru on international gaming hardware, and I was some guy who read something on wikipedia. As powerlessly confused as I was that someone would take such a trivial issue so seriously, I bit my tongue and bought my juvenile Zelda toy like a boss.
Oh God, the hell I went through to get me an AGS-101 model. NOBODY knows they exist.
 

MrSerrels

Member
Bernbaum said:
I like what Gametraders do and the one near me looks to be pretty successful, given that they operate in a shopping centre which houses a JB and two EB's.

However...

I got into an argument with the store owner who refused to believe me when I told him there were two iterations of the GBA SP, a front- and back-lit model. He flat-out thought I was lying. It was one of the weirdest conversations I ever had. He was the self-assumed guru on international gaming hardware, and I was some guy who read something on wikipedia. As powerlessly confused as I was that someone would take such a trivial issue so seriously, I bit my tongue and bought my juvenile Zelda toy like a boss.

I would have argued with you to the death that the SP was backlit only. TO THE DEATH.
 

VOOK

We don't know why he keeps buying PAL, either.
I have two backlit GBA SP's and two normal ones, suck it.

People didn't know they existed because the DS came out. No one buy America and Japan got em.
 

Bernbaum

Member
VOOK said:
I have two backlit GBA SP's and two normal ones, suck it.

People didn't know they existed because the DS came out. No one buy America and Japan got em.

Gimme gimme gimme I want one!

I've had Final Fantasy V and VI for GBA, oh just sitting here tempting me to play them, and I think I want to enjoy them on a glorious backlit GBA SP. Talk about hard to track down - I was fortunate to secure legit, high condition of quality copies of both of those FF games through Ebay, having been burned with counterfeit goods on multiple occasions.

I own two DS Lites, a GB Micro and a plain old GBA yet I'm still willing to fork out cash for an SP.
 

Deeku

Member
Bernbaum said:
Gimme gimme gimme I want one!

I've had Final Fantasy V and VI for GBA, oh just sitting here tempting me to play them, and I think I want to enjoy them on a glorious backlit GBA SP. Talk about hard to track down - I was fortunate to secure legit, high condition of quality copies of both of those FF games through Ebay, having been burned with counterfeit goods on multiple occasions.

I own two DS Lites, a GB Micro and a plain old GBA yet I'm still willing to fork out cash for an SP.
If you never get the SP, I'll gladly take VI off you:p
 

VOOK

We don't know why he keeps buying PAL, either.
viciouskillersquirrel said:
When I asked VOOK for one of his, he told me they weren't for sale ;_;

Would've made things much easier.

I need both of them, see legend's post as to why.
 

Dead Man

Member
Long piece on the GST from News.com.au:

THE nation's biggest retailers have launched a campaign against online shopping sites, calling on the Government to impose a GST on all goods bought over the internet - or remove of the GST from all products under $1000.

The new Retail Coalition – which includes David Jones, Myer and Harvey Norman and represents 2211 stores that employ 76,000 people nationally – says overseas retailers have an unfair advantage because they do not have to levy duty or GST on purchases under $1000, making online, off-shore shopping a cheaper option for consumers.

They have warned thousands of jobs are at risk if the Government fails to act, The Australian reported.

But experts are not buying message, saying the retailers' ideas to "level the playing field" between Australian businesses and internet shops are unworkable.

Instead, they say it is the strong dollar, not the GST-free threshold, that is currently making online purchases almost 40 per cent cheaper compared with October 2008.

Reducing the GST-free threshold on online sales would not be cost effective and removing the GST from local sales under $1000 would be too costly.

Retailers strike back

Myer chief executive Bernie Brookes criticised the Government's announcement of a Productivity Commission inquiry into the taxation of online purchases as a delaying tactic and said urgent action was needed to stop jobs from being lost.

Sluggish retail sales, heavy discounting in the lead-up to the Christmas sales period and a surging dollar have encouraged consumers to shop over the internet, devastating the retail sector.

In the ads, the Retail Coalition warns that failing to act "will see a reduction in hours and shifts for casual and part-time workers, and ultimately cost Australians jobs in retail, manufacturing, logistics and related services".

'Alarmist red herring'

Consumer advocacy group Choice described the retailers' campaign as an "alarmist red herring" driven by self interest.

"The big chains should recognise that it's their high prices, limited range and poor customer service that increasingly encourages people to use the internet," spokesman Christopher Zinn said.

Choice used the example of a digital camera (Canon IXUS 1000 HS) available online from Myer for $557. The same camera could be purchased though an Australian online retailer for $433.50.

Purchasing the camera from Hong Kong through a company with Australia-based sales staff would cost $346.

"Major stores are not being forced by anyone to charge these high prices," Mr Zinn said.

Academic Nigel Finch agreed that the campaign appears to be alarmist.

"The alarmist factor is that Australian retailers are being disadvantaged by this business regulation," Dr Finch, a Senior Lecturer in Accounting from the University of Sydney, said.

He said that consumers were merely taking advantage of a currency arbitrage between the strong Australian dollar and the weaker US currency.

The dollar is to blame

The dollar, which reached a 28-year high against the US last week, is the key factor hurting local retailers.

"The currently high Australian dollar is having an impact far greater than any issue of no GST of imports of less than $1000," said Sean Stephens, an economist at retail consultancy Essential Economics.

"Imported goods are now 39 per cent cheaper than they would have been in October 2008 based on currency movements against the US dollar.


"This is giving consumers some great bargains, particularly in categories such as books, clothing and electronics which can be up to 50 per cent cheaper than from Australian-based retailers for equivalent goods."

"We can expect that over time the exchange rate will return to lower historical levels that will do far more to reduce the current price disparity than any changes to GST arrangements."

'Not administratively feasible'

The logistics and cost of removing the GST-free threshold for online sales was considered to be "not administratively feasible" in a review by The Board of Taxation last year.

Last year, The Australian Retailers Association estimated that the Government could be losing up to $600 million in revenue due to the GST-free threshold of $1000. Yesterday, Myer's Mr Brookes said the figure was up to $2.5 billion in lost revenue.

Head of Consumer research at Deutsche Bank, Paul van Meurs, said that Government might increase its tax take but it might not increase local retail sales.

"(Removing the GST-free threshold) would actually raise revenue for the Government because they would now collect duty on on-line purchases as well under $1000,"

"Impossible to know what impact this would have on demand for online products but often the price differential is significantly higher than the tax differential alone."


Another unfeasible idea

The experts were most critical of the retailers' demand that the playing field be leveled by removing GST from Australian sales worth less than $1000.

In their ad, the retailers say that if the Government does not want to impose GST on internet purchases - currently exempt from GST and import duty if less than $1000 - it should not impose it on domestic purchases.

"I am sure it is possible (some goods like food already don't attract any GST) but it would be highly complicated and this would result in a significant reduction in revenue for the government. Most retail purchases are below $1000 - to not charge duty on these items wouldn't be feasible," Mr Meurs said.

This morning, Myer's CEO Mr Brookes clarified that the retailers were not calling for an end to the GST on domestic purchases but merely highlighting the inconsistency of the current tax regime.

The Government expects to receive the results of a Productivity Commission inquiry into the country's retail sector within nine months.

Other retailers to join the Retail Coalition include Angus & Robertson, Borders, Dotti, Portmans and Witchery.

I know I'm a bit of a broken record at the moment, but the hubris of the retailers shits me to tears.
 

markot

Banned
I dont see how its hubris. They want an evenish playing field, they have to pay local taxes, so why shouldnt companies that deal with Australian consumers?

But yeah its the strong Aussie dollar >.<

Id be annoyed if I had to deal with a 10% price increase on my products V an off shore online retailer.
 

Bernbaum

Member
I really haven't read up on the issue a great bunch and there's a probably a layer of economical complexity that goes right over the head of the layperson, so my opinion is premature, unfounded and emotionally-driven, but I'll have at it anyway-

Free market economy bitches! Adapt to survive or perish! You know why cobblers or candlestick makers aren't around any more? Because no-one fucking needs 'em, that's why. I want my fancy electronic luxury items now goddammit, and if I can save a buck then by the holy hammer of Thor I shall!

Give me bargains or give me death.
 

Kritz

Banned
Page1.png


This is turning out more terrible than I imagined.
 

Kritz

Banned
YO I'M FUCKIN KRATOS OH GOD MY FANS ARE COMPLETE IDIOTS WHAT THE FUCK THIS ISN'T FUCKING SWEET AT ALL HOLY SHIT

HOLY SHIT GUYS

*begin epic journey to murder fandom*
 

legend166

Member
markot said:
I dont see how its hubris. They want an evenish playing field, they have to pay local taxes, so why shouldnt companies that deal with Australian consumers?

But yeah its the strong Aussie dollar >.<

Id be annoyed if I had to deal with a 10% price increase on my products V an off shore online retailer.

This is the pink commie markot I've always
hated
loved.


Seriously though, it's not a 10% thing at all. Most of that is immediately wiped away by shipping costs. If I buy a $50 game overseas, I'll probably pay $5 in shipping. Bam, there's the 10%.

How do they propose they collect the GST? You can't collect it from the overseas retailers, obviously. You'd have to employ a massive amount of people to physical check each item that comes into the country. If there's no invoice on the packaging, you have to open it up. And even then how do you know what's something that has been purchased or what is just a personal package?

Then you've got to send a payment notice to whoever has purchased the item. Then you've got to employ debt collectors for when people invariably don't pay the GST.

Beyond the fact it's just a scare campaign from some whinging retailers, it would be an administrative nightmare.
 

Dead Man

Member
legend166 said:
This is the pink commie markot I've always
hated
loved.


Seriously though, it's not a 10% thing at all. Most of that is immediately wiped away by shipping costs. If I buy a $50 game overseas, I'll probably pay $5 in shipping. Bam, there's the 10%.

How do they propose they collect the GST? You can't collect it from the overseas retailers, obviously. You'd have to employ a massive amount of people to physical check each item that comes into the country. If there's no invoice on the packaging, you have to open it up. And even then how do you know what's something that has been purchased or what is just a personal package?

Then you've got to send a payment notice to whoever has purchased the item. Then you've got to employ debt collectors for when people invariably don't pay the GST.

Beyond the fact it's just a scare campaign from some whinging retailers, it would be an administrative nightmare.
Yeah. Regardless of whether you think it's a good idea or not, there is no way to do it that woudl not be a cluster of huge proportions.
 

markot

Banned
I think the UK has the VAT that puts the... tax on consumers for goods that they import... I dunno how it works >.< but there is always that warning that '______ may be subject to the VAT' and crap.

And yeah, its kinda sad how far behind the internets the tax code is.

But the GST is a consumer tax, its one that we pay for when we buy goods, the burden is placed on the sellers to deal with the tax implications however and pay the actual tax which they essentially collect on behalf of the government.

I think the GST should be repealed anyway because it is a regressive tax, but then of course Howard would be all over Regressing us, all over our faces with the regression hmph >.>

hehe, but I do think the retailers are full of it, any time Harvey pops up, I know there is thick BS in the air.
 

legend166

Member
markot said:
I think the UK has the VAT that puts the... tax on consumers for goods that they import... I dunno how it works >.< but there is always that warning that '______ may be subject to the VAT' and crap.

And yeah, its kinda sad how far behind the internets the tax code is.

But the GST is a consumer tax, its one that we pay for when we buy goods, the burden is placed on the sellers to deal with the tax implications however and pay the actual tax which they essentially collect on behalf of the government.

I think the GST should be repealed anyway because it is a regressive tax, but then of course Howard would be all over Regressing us, all over our faces with the regression hmph >.>

hehe, but I do think the retailers are full of it, any time Harvey pops up, I know there is thick BS in the air.

Yeah but it's impossible to expect businesses from other countries to collect tax for the Australian government.
 

jambo

Member
AusGAF games night ho!


Aon and I about to collide

3qbeL.jpg



Victory!

QrTmY.jpg



Kritz used reversing jets to great degrees of success

gtgZ2.jpg



Spam wins

lsIhc.jpg
 

Bernbaum

Member
I can't play Space War on my Mac and my years-old PC graphics card blew up yesterday :(

Mad Men plunge status: TAKEN.

I've been enjoying Halo: Reach so much I decided to get the LE.
 

Rezbit

Member
I'm just going to quickly weigh into the debate and say FUCK retail. Pretty much for this exact reason:

"The big chains should recognise that it's their high prices, limited range and poor customer service that increasingly encourages people to use the internet," spokesman Christopher Zinn said.

I would much rather pay less on the internet and not have to deal with grumpy dickhead teenagers/middle aged women who haven't done anything with their lives giving me shit customer service. Yeah I know, jobs and blah blah blah, but if you act like you don't even give a shit and just want me to fuck off, well then fine, I will fuck off, but don't expect my money. Happened today at Big W, my friend was making a return for a top, and we waited over 5 minutes for this massively slow person on the desk, by which time a line had formed. She serves my friend, then turns around to her colleague and says "that'd be right, they all come when it's time for me to go home." Everyone in the line looked at each other with a raised upper lip, thinking FUCK you, you rude bitch!

*deep breath*
 

rass

Member
^^^bargain! I bought it in the EA sale for $1.19 and was happy with that though

hooray, someone coming to look at my car tonight. Selling a car is balls by the way.
I got an email from a dude offering $4k (asking price is $5k), then 20 minutes later an sms from the same person offering $4400. People are strange.


Side note - did anyone else watch waterworld when it was on the other night? I thought the end would have been better if
everybody got eaten by bears after they found dry land
 

rass

Member
VOOK said:
Should be in Japan in less then a mere 24 hours from now.

Hooray!
It's cold there, stay here in the warmth and I shall go in your stead.
have fun man, it's a beautiful country
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom