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[Gazunta]

BUT BUT BUT SURPLUS BY 2013 WAAAAAAH

 

[pilonv1]

So what does everyone think of the flood levy?

Mortgage repayments are expected to rise again by $200. Lame.

I bet those people are loving it.

 

[Fredescu]

So what does everyone think of the flood levy?

I don't mind paying it, but there are plenty of good apolitical arguments that suggest that going into deficit is economically much better than a tax. Obviously the reason Howard introduced a whole bunch of levys instead of going into deficit during his time is a budget surplus is better for political point scoring.

 

[jambo]

I don't mind either.

 

[VOOK]

I bet those people are loving it.

Yeah, me.

 

[Fredescu]

Yeah, me.

Our taxation system has such a huge bias towards property investment. I wouldn't go complaining about $5 a week or whatever it is.

 

[Choc]

so based on initial reactions to the flood levy i was right in my chat on steam last night as to reactions


high income earners: fuck the government why should i pay

middle income earners: fuck that, i cant afford that when you sell our electricity and shit

low income earners: well at least i dont have to pay

i agree low income earners should be exempt, zero issue with that but a lot of people have made very poignant points such as NSW was in recession for somethng like 14 years and Qld did fuck all but take extra GST

so when QLD was absolutely rolling in it why did they not put money away to fix shit if stuff went wrong?!

I imagine most states dont but its a bloody good point.

Tons of people on forums all over the place including the Australia pissed off that they are now being forced to donate after donating already and other people are saying the donations will stop and i imagine they are right

most interesting thing is this is going to be phased in as an income tax increase rather then a levy, which they plan to remove for the FY after. Will they, who knows.

As well as this JG needs to remind herself she is in a minority government. If Tony can turn the Independants against this one we could have a vote of no confidence in parliament within weeks and if it succeeds, back voting again.

That could easily happen if the uproar is enough. Queensland needs help sure and i donated and i dont mind paying a little bit, but a new tax isnt going to win the Government any friends.

 

[VOOK]

Our taxation system has such a huge bias towards property investment. I wouldn't go complaining about $5 a week or whatever it is.

You want to wire me the money every week then?

$5 is $5 dollars, but over 52 weeks that's $260, over a couple of years... well yeah.

 

[legend166]

I'd like to see how they're actually going to rebuild things first.

Because if it's just a straight rebuild this will probably happen again in 30 years and we'll have to do it all over again. First things first, don't build on a floodplain and then have a whinge when your insurer doesn't cover flood damage.

And yeah, I'd much rather they push the surplus back a year than pay a damn levy.

 

[Choc]

you can't compare this tax to other levys as others have said on various editorials


the buy back scheme, and east timor levy was going to benefit all of australia

this one, somewhat does not

HOWEVER

it can be argued the economic impact of Queensland collapsing due to natural resources would be phenomenal so you could argue it is for all of australia....

lots of people on forums also saying 'well i aint paying insurance anymore because the government will just fix it all for me!'

 

[jambo]

over a couple of years...

It's $520

 

[evlcookie]

How are your investment properties going vook? Are you doing alright or is it starting to become a struggle?

Fuck yea, since i get paid fuck all i don't pay the levy. Snap

 

[Fredescu]

you can't compare this tax to other levys as others have said on various editorials


the buy back scheme, and east timor levy was going to benefit all of australia

this one, somewhat does not

HOWEVER

it can be argued the economic impact of Queensland collapsing due to natural resources would be phenomenal so you could argue it is for all of australia....

So what you're saying is that you can compare this to other levys? Cool.

 

[Gazunta]

People didn't seem to complain much when the government was giving us all free money for no reason.

Having seen some of the places wrecked by the floods first hand I certainly don't mind paying. But just don't pretend it's something besides a way to get the government to pay for it all without breaking the precious 'surplus by 2013' argument.

And I can certainly appreciate anyone outside QLD asking why they should pay anything more than they already have. None of the infrastructure is going to be built outside QLD, right? I'd be pissed off if i had to pay for new train lines in WA or whatever.

 

[Choc]

looooooools

now i am on the fence about climate change but there is no doubt the weather is becoming more crazy worldwide

so what do we do

cut all our research and investment in climate change

GOOD JOB GOVERNMENT

 

[Choc]

So what you're saying is that you can compare this to other levys? Cool.

agreed fred. the however was my personal opinion, the other section is not

 

[Fredescu]

cut all our research and investment in climate change

What? Link?

 

[VOOK]

It's $520

$520 that could go to paying off my mortgage or the Strata Fees, Maintenance fees, inspection costs and the multitude of taxes I already pay. Or how about the tax I'll be slugged when I sell the place?

How are your investment properties going vook? Are you doing alright or is it starting to become a struggle?

I'm doing just fine, friends and family who aren't as lucky as me? No so much.

Oh yeah and the Contingency Reserve that has this $5bn just sitting there, will be $11bn next year. But no slug the tax payer instead.

edit: Gazunta, I have no problem helping you guys out - you're Australian - that's all that matters. There's better ways of doing it however.

 

[Gazunta]

*awaits link to a news.com.au article*

 

[Choc]

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...-rebuild-levy/comments-fn7ik2te-1225995376778

Not proceeding with the Cleaner Car Rebate Scheme
Abolishing the Green Car Innovation Fund
Reducing and deferring spending on the Carbon Capture and Storage Flagships and Solar Flagships programs and the Global Carbon Capture and Storage Institute

 

[Gazunta]

BOOYA

 

[Choc]

1.11pm (AEDT) Ms Gillard said up to 4000 eligible jobseekers who want to help rebuild Queensland will get support to move there.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...vy/story-fn7ik2te-1225995376778#ixzz1CCMpHjEo

 

[VOOK]

Oh and WA is already paying for most of the shit in the country anyway, so what does that matter anywho.

 

[codswallop]

now i am on the fence about climate change but there is no doubt the weather is becoming more crazy worldwide

I think the worst thing they ever did was have everyone call it 'Global warming'.

Who'd have thought scientists are bad at marketing?

 

[legend166]

How about they ship up people on the dole and tell them to start helping rebuild?

Or, even better, prisoner work schemes?

 

[VOOK]

How about they ship up people on the dole and tell them to start helping rebuild?

Or, even better, prisoner work schemes?

Bingo.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

$520 that could go to paying off my mortgage or the Strata Fees, Maintenance fees, inspection costs and the multitude of taxes I already pay. Or how about the tax I'll be slugged when I sell the place?

I don't know, maybe I'm young and naive, but complaining about $520 spent over a few years being taken by the government to aid flood victims seems disgustingly petty.

This is why I could never get into politics.

 

[Fredescu]

I don't know, maybe I'm young and naive, but complaining about $520 spent over a few years being taken by the government to aid flood victims seems disgustingly petty.

If that same person complaining had an investment property that allows them to get five figure tax returns each year, would you say that was more or less petty?

 

[Agyar]

Give with one hand, take with the other

Spoiler

unless you're rich in which case you can worm out through a tax loophole

.

 

[jambo]

Plus that $520 would most likely go to 3DS game imports.

=P

 

[VOOK]

I don't know, maybe I'm young and naive, but complaining about $520 spent over a few years being taken by the government to aid flood victims seems disgustingly petty.

This is why I could never get into politics.

It's not going to the flood victims though, it's going to the Government who will rebuild and spend it on projects. Well that's what they say anyway.

I'd rather donate $1000 right now to a family who lost their house so it could be used now, instead of being dished out on shit in 2-3 years after the Government has decided they've gotten enough interest from it.

The government has the money now, they need it now.

 

[Choc]

Oh and WA is already paying for most of the shit in the country anyway, so what does that matter anywho.

not to get into a shitfight but WA is also

-pushing up inflation and therefore interest rates through ridiculous wages offered in the mines for menial jobs (200k to drive a bus? give me a break)

-Causing property to go through the roof, causing rate rises and inflation



ALSO vook when you have negative gearing still, you my friend can not complain. That is the biggest fucking tax break in history.

Also there are ways for you to legally avoid your CGT on your investment property when you sell as long as the tenants are no longer there.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

now, like I said, I'm not really plugged into politics, I only watch it from the other side of the window, but from my perspective, from a practicality standpoint, this seems like, if not the MOST sensible than certainly a relatively sensible, way of dealing with the extra costs this will undoubtedly bring. It has to be a solution that works for all income ranges, not just those who can pay large amounts of money upfront, no? It has to be properly regulated, not just sent scattershot, first-come-first-serve to families in need, right? given the large-scale nature of this sort of thing, the logistical, man-power side of things will take a long time to correctly and fairly design, staff-up and put into action at the appropriate standard?

is the government not already helping families? You frame it as though they're just going to wait a couple of years and then finally roll in with their horse and carriage and start rebuilding. I don't understand the cynicism. Can you point me to some examples of the current government doing anything that prompts this sort of cynicism? I'd honestly like to know. Educate me.

 

[Choc]

i believe this is how it will work

-The government will legislate the levy into income tax rates.

-Once the government gets it through parliament, they will commit 5 billion to the Queensland rebuild, safe in the knowledge that it will be recouped in the next financial year

-The tax payers will repay that debt in the 2011-12 financial year.

-end result, Government will have paid the debt back and be back in surplus as promised in 2013

its not like they are going to wait arond for the tax to roll in. They will take a loan out with the knowledge its going to be paid back by the taxpayers....

 

[Bernbaum]

Posts 10519-10521 made my day.

 

[Choc]

so someone with a waterfront property in Brisbane who gets paid 500k a year (hypothetically) is exempt from the levy as they are a flood victim


hoooooooo boy

 

[BanShunsaku]

Meh, I don't know how to feel.

I feel incredibly sorry for the people who have lost their livelihoods, but I just don't like the idea of paying another 1% tax.

I would rather give my money directly to someone who I know needs it, not to the government to do what they will. I've already donated quite a bit to the flood relief and to have to pay this as well is a little hard to swallow. Hope I don't sound like a selfish arsehole, but I have a mortgage to pay and am trying to save to start a family, and it all adds up.

 

[Choc]

I've already donated quite a bit to the flood relief and to have to pay this as well is a little hard to swallow.

winner winner chicken dinner. This is what most peoples opinion is.

 

[Fredescu]

now, like I said, I'm not really plugged into politics, I only watch it from the other side of the window, but from my perspective, from a practicality standpoint, this seems like, if not the MOST sensible than certainly a relatively sensible, way of dealing with the extra costs this will undoubtedly bring. It has to be a solution that works for all income ranges, not just those who can pay large amounts of money upfront, no? It has to be properly regulated, not just sent scattershot, first-come-first-serve to families in need, right?

Actually, from a practicality standpoint, using existing money makes more sense because it's already a progressive system. ie you get more money from the rich than the poor. Governments have the ability to spend more one year and make it up the next year, and they have nest eggs into the billions of dollars to allow for this eventuality. This is a levy for political reasons only. A deficit budget is seen as a Bad Thing by joe public.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Meh, I don't know how to feel.

I feel incredibly sorry for the people who have lost their livelihoods, but I just don't like the idea of paying another 1% tax.

I would rather give my money directly to someone who I know needs it, not to the government to do what they will. I've already donated quite a bit to the flood relief and to have to pay this as well is a little hard to swallow. Hope I don't sound like a selfish arsehole, but I have a mortgage to pay and am trying to save to start a family, and it all adds up.

I can understand this sentiment, I just don't think it's a practical way of assuring everyone gets the help they need on the level only a government or government-sanctioned organisation can realistically put into action. I mean, paying money to the government so that they can do one of the things they exist to do seems like the most sensible way of dealing this situation.

Actually, from a practicality standpoint, using existing money makes more sense because it's already a progressive system. ie you get more money from the rich than the poor. Governments have the ability to spend more one year and make it up the next year, and they have nest eggs into the billions of dollars to allow for this eventuality. This is a levy for political reasons only. A deficit budget is seen as a Bad Thing by joe public.

is the net result not essentially the same for Joe Public, though?

 

[giri]

I bet those people are loving it.

It's fucking retarded.

I don't mind paying it, but there are plenty of good apolitical arguments that suggest that going into deficit is economically much better than a tax. Obviously the reason Howard introduced a whole bunch of levys instead of going into deficit during his time is a budget surplus is better for political point scoring.

Uhh, what?

so based on initial reactions to the flood levy i was right in my chat on steam last night as to reactions


high income earners: fuck the government why should i pay

middle income earners: fuck that, i cant afford that when you sell our electricity and shit

low income earners: well at least i dont have to pay

i agree low income earners should be exempt, zero issue with that but a lot of people have made very poignant points such as NSW was in recession for somethng like 14 years and Qld did fuck all but take extra GST

so when QLD was absolutely rolling in it why did they not put money away to fix shit if stuff went wrong?!

I imagine most states dont but its a bloody good point.

Tons of people on forums all over the place including the Australia pissed off that they are now being forced to donate after donating already and other people are saying the donations will stop and i imagine they are right

most interesting thing is this is going to be phased in as an income tax increase rather then a levy, which they plan to remove for the FY after. Will they, who knows.

As well as this JG needs to remind herself she is in a minority government. If Tony can turn the Independants against this one we could have a vote of no confidence in parliament within weeks and if it succeeds, back voting again.

That could easily happen if the uproar is enough. Queensland needs help sure and i donated and i dont mind paying a little bit, but a new tax isnt going to win the Government any friends.

Uhh What? QLD was living it up, was it? I must've missed that part while we've been trying to sell off public assets to meet budget. NSW has been run in a complete and utter farsce for over a decade now, don't blame QLD, blame yourselves for continually voting in joke governments.

Also, if everyones got to pay, everyone should pay. Keep taxing the shit out of the high income earners and guess what, they move.

you can't compare this tax to other levys as others have said on various editorials


the buy back scheme, and east timor levy was going to benefit all of australia

this one, somewhat does not

HOWEVER

it can be argued the economic impact of Queensland collapsing due to natural resources would be phenomenal so you could argue it is for all of australia....

lots of people on forums also saying 'well i aint paying insurance anymore because the government will just fix it all for me!'

The government isn't planning to fix your house, just the infrastructure around it. Some might get small grants, but not the hundreds of thousands needed to fix those houses.

People didn't seem to complain much when the government was giving us all free money for no reason.

Having seen some of the places wrecked by the floods first hand I certainly don't mind paying. But just don't pretend it's something besides a way to get the government to pay for it all without breaking the precious 'surplus by 2013' argument.

And I can certainly appreciate anyone outside QLD asking why they should pay anything more than they already have. None of the infrastructure is going to be built outside QLD, right? I'd be pissed off if i had to pay for new train lines in WA or whatever.

I complained about the free cash give away, it was stupid.

And it is sort of important for QLD to get back up and running. Alot of resource (read, mining) companies export out of QLD, and they page huge sums of money in taxes. So does WA, but yeah.

I'm usually the last to be an advocate for national debt, but i'd rather that then start throwing around a new tax.

 

[Fredescu]

Uhh, what?

Which part in particular? Howard introduced seven levys in his time. Spending using existing money that you already have and going into deficit takes less money out of the economy, at a time when things are economically iffy to begin with.

 

[legend166]

now, like I said, I'm not really plugged into politics, I only watch it from the other side of the window, but from my perspective, from a practicality standpoint, this seems like, if not the MOST sensible than certainly a relatively sensible, way of dealing with the extra costs this will undoubtedly bring. It has to be a solution that works for all income ranges, not just those who can pay large amounts of money upfront, no? It has to be properly regulated, not just sent scattershot, first-come-first-serve to families in need, right? given the large-scale nature of this sort of thing, the logistical, man-power side of things will take a long time to correctly and fairly design, staff-up and put into action at the appropriate standard?

is the government not already helping families? You frame it as though they're just going to wait a couple of years and then finally roll in with their horse and carriage and start rebuilding. I don't understand the cynicism. Can you point me to some examples of the current government doing anything that prompts this sort of cynicism? I'd honestly like to know. Educate me.

This government has a track record of bungling infrastructure projects. See; pink batts, education revolution, etc.

Simply, it's a Federal government. Being slow and wasteful is in its DNA.

 

[jambo]

And I don't see how giving money directly to people is going to help with repairing and rebuilding infrastructure.

Plus, it's 0.5% for $50,000-$100,000 a year and then 1% for $100,000 and up.

 

[Fredescu]

is the net result not essentially the same for Joe Public, though?

Sort of, yeah. The tax scaling isn't the same, so lower income people might pay more for it than they would have if it was funded from their income tax. Also, the small effects on the economy are technically worse in the case of a levy. No idea how noticeable that is, but why mess with something that is fragile because a large production state has a whole lot of shit wiped out? The answer is because you don't want to have to deal with the opposition screaming DEFICIT, DEFICIT at you like it was always a bad thing.

 

[BanShunsaku]

And I don't see how giving money directly to people is going to help with repairing and rebuilding infrastructure.

Plus, it's 0.5% for $50,000-$100,000 a year and then 1% for $100,000 and up.

I know, it is completely impractical, just would feel better. I'm always the same with giving money to charities or anything like that, I wish I could just give directly to people who need it.

And yeh I know the percentages, I'll be paying 1%.

 

[giri]

Which part in particular? Howard introduced seven levys in his time. Spending using existing money that you already have and going into deficit takes less money out of the economy, at a time when things are economically iffy to begin with.

Howard wasn't running out of spending money, he was paying for extra things that voters wanted. And rightly, he increased tax to cover it. I'm all for a balanced budget in theory. And don't have a problem with what he did.

This new levy is dumb.

This is from a BT article

Apart from the impact on the hip-pocket the levy also could have flow-on effects, said Opposition leader Tony Abbott.

"The prime minister is on the one hand urging people to donate generously to the flood relief fund but the people she wants to donate she's also going to hit with a tax," Mr Abbott told Macquarie Radio.

"Why would you donate when the government's about to tax you for the same thing?"

Mr Abbott compared the tax to Coles and Woolworths deciding to donate $5 million to the flood relief fund, then putting up the price of groceries to pay for it.

"People would feel ripped off," he said.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/weather/flood-levy-just-plain-dumb-opposition-20110127-1a5uj.html?from=smh_ft

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Apart from the impact on the hip-pocket the levy also could have flow-on effects, said Opposition leader Tony Abbott.

"The prime minister is on the one hand urging people to donate generously to the flood relief fund but the people she wants to donate she's also going to hit with a tax," Mr Abbott told Macquarie Radio.

"Why would you donate when the government's about to tax you for the same thing?"

Mr Abbott compared the tax to Coles and Woolworths deciding to donate $5 million to the flood relief fund, then putting up the price of groceries to pay for it.

"People would feel ripped off," he said.

come the fuck on. don't insult the public's intelligence.

 

[jambo]

And yeh I know the percentages, I'll be paying 1%.

 

[legend166]

On the other hand, we could just listen to Bob Brown and get the miners to pay for it all because they caused it!


lol