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[Jintor]

Goddamnit Evo, my heart is jumping out of my goddamn chest

 

[what's in a name]

What does negative gearing have to do with capitalism?

Personally, I'd be waiting a couple of years before buying an investment property. Prices have been on the slide for 18 months and rents are sure to follow.

Can't see rent dropping any time soon. There are way more people looking to rent than there are properties available and way more people being forced to rent because they can't afford to purchase a house.

 

[Fredescu]

Can't see rent dropping any time soon. There are way more people looking to rent than there are properties available and way more people being forced to rent because they can't afford to purchase a house.

Property prices are dropping. Thus fewer people being forced to rent because they can't afford to purchase a house. Rents will follow the property prices down.

 

[r1chard]

And meanwhile the land owners are accruing capital (even through temporary slides) and tax benefits ensuring that they'll be able to continue buying up the land, pushing prices higher (even given temporary slides) and ensuring that the people paying their rent cannot afford to buy thus protecting their future income stream.

 

[Fredescu]

This isn't a temporary slide, this is the bubble deflating. The vast majority of investment property owners are baby boomers heading into retirement. They are coming into retirement age now and the sale of these assets into a market that won't pay the peak value will see prices continue to drop. I'll bet you whatever you like that prices in 2015 won't be back at 2010 levels.

 

[evlcookie]

What does negative gearing have to do with capitalism?

Personally, I'd be waiting a couple of years before buying an investment property. Prices have been on the slide for 18 months and rents are sure to follow.

Yea I still think buying now is just risky. They are dropping which is good.

I'm sitting on money and doing nothing though, Which seems to be the issue. I should be doing *something* with it, So it can help with my future. (As a hot bachelor hitting on chicks on trains and buses)

Buy a house and renting it out seems to be the defacto option. Spend $50k, get a $200k loan and get a unit or something like that, Rent it out like a mad man and get whatever tax breaks at the end of the financial year.

Having it sit in a savings account isn't the smartest idea but it is probably the safest.

 

[Fredescu]

Having it sit in a savings account isn't the smartest idea

That much is true.

 

[r1chard]

This isn't a temporary slide, this is the bubble deflating. The vast majority of investment property owners are baby boomers heading into retirement. They are coming into retirement age now and the sale of these assets into a market that won't pay the peak value will see prices continue to drop. I'll bet you whatever you like that prices in 2015 won't be back at 2010 levels.

It's land. You have to take the long view. They're always temporary slides, even if it takes a year or two to recover. It always appreciates in the end.

 

[Fredescu]

It always appreciates in the end.

This needn't be true.

 

[shanshan310]

I think it seems like a good idea. Evl. Its hard to predict where house prices are headed, so maybe it is better to buy now while prices are slightly down.

Good thing Choc can't respond right now.

lol.

 

[reptilescorpio]

Personally, I'd be waiting a couple of years before buying an investment property. Prices have been on the slide for 18 months and rents are sure to follow.

Rents here are down over the last 12 months, which is why I am moving out since the moron landlord wants to put up the rent $20 a week (would be okay if I got a fucking $20 a week pay rise I guess!) when there are plenty of equivalent properties on the market for less (sometimes a lot less). Looking at some brand new 3 bedroom houses just out of town for $260 a week which would be glorious and mean a lot more money in my pocket. Lots on the market compared to this time last year when we really struggled to find something decent.

 

[evlcookie]

That much is true.

Yes. Which is why I need ideas, Something to do.

I guess a financial planner person thingy, is probably the only option.

I mean there's always blackjack, I could throw it all on a roulette spin, Put it into shares and pretend like I know what the numbers mean.

Choices!

 

[reptilescorpio]

Yes. Which is why I need ideas, Something to do.

I guess a financial planner person thingy, is probably the only option.

I mean there's always blackjack, I could throw it all on a roulette spin, Put it into shares and pretend like I know what the numbers mean.

Choices!

$1000 a week alcohol habit!

 

[Sutton Dagger]

So I just finished building my first PC and I turned it on, went to the boot screen but noticed that the case fans weren't working as they were plugged into a fan controller. Decided to turn it off and then plug the fans into the mobo. Booted back up and the fans are now spinning, but i'm not getting a signal to the monitor...

Help GAF...

 

[Fredescu]

Yes. Which is why I need ideas, Something to do.

I guess a financial planner person thingy, is probably the only option.

Didn't think that Blue Chip 20 thing Choc suggested was interesting? Either way, I wouldn't put the lot in any one particular thing. Spread your risk out a bit. As far as financial advice goes, most of them are trying to sell you something and it can be difficult to find an independent one. You're better off with one that charges you hourly fees for their time. The others are commission based, which means they're being paid to sell you a particular product, which makes their "advice" fairly suspect. You're probably best off figuring out a bunch of different options and asking an accountant to do the maths for you in terms of tax and returns and such.

 

[Fredescu]

So I just finished building my first PC and I turned it on, went to the boot screen but noticed that the case fans weren't working as they were plugged into a fan controller. Decided to turn it off and then plug the fans into the mobo. Booted back up and the fans are now spinning, but i'm not getting a signal to the monitor...

Help GAF...

Is your CPU fan plugged into the motherboard into Fan 1 or whatever? Have you plugged the power connectors into the back of the video card? Have you plugged all the correct power cables into the motherboard? There are often two. Otherwise, reseat everything. Memory is a common culprit. Make sure it's clicked all the way in. Even if it looks like it is, take it out and put it back in.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

he's anti-capitalism?

Negative gearing is a middle class welfare measure designed to keep property prices artificially high and spur speculation in the property market.

There are a lot of Baby Boomers out there with inadequate or non-existent savings/superannuation for retirement, which will mean a tremendous burden on the welfare system when it comes time for them to retire - something that the expected tax base will not be able to handle. The result, under normal circumstances, would be to massively restrict pension eligibility and benefits to all but the most needy and create a huge problem with elderly poverty.

Now, many of the boomers have no money, but they do have assets in the form of property. If a government were to promote growth in the price of what assets these people do have, it will mean that they can draw upon these assets in retirement and ease the burden on the taxpayer.

By allowing you to claim negative returns from leveraged property investments as deductions on your income tax, the government essentially removes the risk and subsidises your losses, but also lets you keep any profit you might make on the capital appreciation of the property without reference to losses incurred over the life of the investment.

In any other market, an asset that was purchased on credit for $50K that was later sold for $60K, generated revenues in that time of $10K but incurred interest and maintenance costs of $30K would be considered a stinker that lost you ~$10K. In a market with negative gearing, however, that same bad investment made you $10K richer. Provided your income tax bill is high enough (i.e. you are rich enough), it doesn't matter if that investment lost $100K over its life, you are still $10K richer (OK, ~$7.5K after tax) because the taxpayer absorbed your losses.

This basically encourages speculative behaviour, which drives up prices, because it allows buyers purchase not on the basis of utility, but on the expectation that prices will rise. What's worse is that to fully take advantage of it, you want to maximise your debts to do so, meaning that not only are you deliberately making bad investments, you're making bad investments that you cannot afford and all underwritten by the taxpayer.

The reason the government allows this to continue is that they expect that it will cost less in the long term to subsidise these terrible investments than to support the investors financially in retirement. It is basically a scheme where the rich and middle class are paid their retirement benefits today in the form of tax credits so that the government doesn't have to shell out actual cash to them tomorrow.

The consequences are an inflated property market and an electorate/government that has a vested interest in keeping prices high. Hence the glacial pace of land releases for development in a country with one of the lowest population densities in the world, hence the doom and gloom that happens at every lull in the property market, hence a generation of people who will never be able to afford to own their own home.

Negative gearing is almost the exact opposite of a capitalistic or free market policy. It is welfare for the rich and middle class and it is a terrible policy that unfairly shapes our economy.

 

[HolyCheck]

Got today off. Thanks cough. EVO TIME!

I probably could go in but it's one of those coughs that when it starts, it just keeps on going, so you sound like you're dying 14 times over.

Bern, Just set up your iPad to remote wipe whenever it connects to find my ipad, they are bound to connect it to a wifi network at some stage. Unless you want to potentially find it then play that fun game.

If you are using the iPad for mostly reading then the retina probably is worth the upgrade. Easier on the eyes and all that.

same, i dont know what's wrong with me though

i just feel 100% drained and exhausted. brain isnt working properly

 

[evlcookie]

Didn't think that Blue Chip 20 thing Choc suggested was interesting?

I did. I wouldn't mind messing around with shares and that seemed like a good way. There's a few different places that do the blue chip though, From my 5 minutes of research.

I should just get choc to yell at me while telling me who to pick, Then drop $10k into it and see what happens over the next 5 / 6 months.

 

[codswallop]

Negative gearing is a middle class welfare measure designed to keep property prices artificially high and spur speculation in the property market.

... aaaaaand bookmarked.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

Didn't think that Blue Chip 20 thing Choc suggested was interesting? Either way, I wouldn't put the lot in any one particular thing. Spread your risk out a bit. As far as financial advice goes, most of them are trying to sell you something and it can be difficult to find an independent one. You're better off with one that charges you hourly fees for their time. The others are commission based, which means they're being paid to sell you a particular product, which makes their "advice" fairly suspect. You're probably best off figuring out a bunch of different options and asking an accountant to do the maths for you in terms of tax and returns and such.

Weird it must be the old monitor I borrowed off the in-laws, I hooked it up to my TV via HDMI and it's working. It's asking for a restart and to select boot media, so I'm installing Windows now right?

 

[what's in a name]

Negative gearing is a middle class welfare measure designed to keep property prices artificially high and spur speculation in the property market.

There are a lot of Baby Boomers out there with inadequate or non-existent savings/superannuation for retirement, which will mean a tremendous burden on the welfare system when it comes time for them to retire - something that the expected tax base will not be able to handle. The result, under normal circumstances, would be to massively restrict pension eligibility and benefits to all but the most needy and create a huge problem with elderly poverty.

Now, many of the boomers have no money, but they do have assets in the form of property. If a government were to promote growth in the price of what assets these people do have, it will mean that they can draw upon these assets in retirement and ease the burden on the taxpayer.

By allowing you to claim negative returns from leveraged property investments as deductions on your income tax, the government essentially removes the risk and subsidises your losses, but also lets you keep any profit you might make on the capital appreciation of the property without reference to losses incurred over the life of the investment.

In any other market, an asset that was purchased on credit for $50K that was later sold for $60K, generated revenues in that time of $10K but incurred interest and maintenance costs of $30K would be considered a stinker that lost you ~$10K. In a market with negative gearing, however, that same bad investment made you $10K richer. Provided your income tax bill is high enough (i.e. you are rich enough), it doesn't matter if that investment lost $100K over its life, you are still $10K richer (OK, ~$7.5K after tax) because the taxpayer absorbed your losses.

This basically encourages speculative behaviour, which drives up prices, because it allows buyers purchase not on the basis of utility, but on the expectation that prices will rise. What's worse is that to fully take advantage of it, you want to maximise your debts to do so, meaning that not only are you deliberately making bad investments, you're making bad investments that you cannot afford and all underwritten by the taxpayer.

The reason the government allows this to continue is that they expect that it will cost less in the long term to subsidise these terrible investments than to support the investors financially in retirement. It is basically a scheme where the rich and middle class are paid their retirement benefits today in the form of tax credits so that the government doesn't have to shell out actual cash to them tomorrow.

The consequences are an inflated property market and an electorate/government that has a vested interest in keeping prices high. Hence the glacial pace of land releases for development in a country with one of the lowest population densities in the world, hence the doom and gloom that happens at every lull in the property market, hence a generation of people who will never be able to afford to own their own home.

Negative gearing is almost the exact opposite of a capitalistic or free market policy. It is welfare for the rich and middle class and it is a terrible policy that unfairly shapes our economy.

Sorry, was just being a smart ass.

Basically I'm just making hay while the sun shines and providing for the future of my kids. The fact is though that if Evl has the opportunity to invest in property he should for all the reasons you've listed above, it would be silly not too. The overall system may be flawed but if you're in a position to take advantage of it and set yourself up for the future you're doing yourself a disservice by not going for it.

 

[Fredescu]

It's asking for a restart and to select boot media, so I'm installing Windows now right?

Yup, well done. The hard part is over.

 

[Jintor]

Sorry, was just being a smart ass.

Basically I'm just making hay while the sun shines and providing for the future of my kids. The fact is though that if Evl has the opportunity to invest in property he should for all the reasons you've listed above, it would be silly not too. The overall system may be flawed but if you're in a position to take advantage of it and set yourself up for the future you're doing yourself a disservice by not going for it.

Sure, but that kind of thinking is the exact reason it's so prevalent.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Sorry, was just being a smart ass.

Basically I'm just making hay while the sun shines and providing for the future of my kids. The fact is though that if Evl has the opportunity to invest in property he should for all the reasons you've listed above, it would be silly not too. The overall system may be flawed but if you're in a position to take advantage of it and set yourself up for the future you're doing yourself a disservice by not going for it.

I don't deny that. It's an example of a "smart for the individual, dumb for the whole group" kind of behaviour. It's a bit like peacock tails. Any individual peacock has an interest in having a longer, more colourful, more luxuriant tail to attract mates with and have offspring. However, because of this pressure to grow longer tails over time, peacocks end up with these huge ridiculous tails that get then eaten by predators.

Go ahead and grow your tail. I'm just saying I see teeth on the horizon.

 

[shanshan310]

So how long until the housing market crashes then?

 

[Fredescu]

Sure, but that kind of thinking is the exact reason it's so prevalent.

I don't agree at all that the people taking advantage of bad policy are at fault for it. I'm not suggesting against property at the moment because of some moral high ground. I just think it's not the best time in terms of prices. Cookie has time on his side.

So how long until the housing market crashes then?

Best case scenario is a slow decline over many years. A crash would be catastrophic and lead to high unemployment, which is bad for everyone. It's pretty much up to government policy to keep the decline slow, which is why you won't see negative gearing going away any time soon.

 

[Jintor]

I don't agree at all that the people taking advantage of bad policy are at fault for it.

Well, I don't ascribe fault as in some insidious desire to manipulate the entire market or something... but basically what VKS said.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

So how long until the housing market crashes then?

When all the boomers are retired and there is a share market crash, causing a lot of them to bail out or downsize simultaneously. It'd be even worse if there's a credit squeeze at the same time.

So basically, some time in the next ten to twenty years*.

*

Spoiler

Unless some brave government decides to end NG on existing properties or segregates it from ordinary income sooner LOL

 

[Fredescu]

Unless some brave government decides to end NG on existing properties

NSW are ending the FHOG on existing properties. The FHOG has a much clearer affect on the market based on the data we have, since NG has been around forever.

Well, I don't ascribe fault as in some insidious desire to manipulate the entire market or something... but basically what VKS said.

The fault is with the policy makers, and those that vote in the policy makers based on welfare bribes. Ultimately that's where we should focus our efforts. Getting people to make better choices at the ballot box, and getting policy makers to make choices focused on good outcomes, not good short term polling.

It's a bit like the climate change thing. Deniers piss me off, but I still drive a car and live in the suburbs. Action has to come from policy.

 

[r1chard]

ooh ooh my Galaxy Nexus from Kogan is with the courier on its final leg to MEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[was expecting it tomorrow and its early arrival will be a welcome bonus on an otherwise shitty day]

 

[Jintor]

The fault is with the policy makers, and those that vote in the policy makers based on welfare bribes. Ultimately that's where we should focus our efforts. Getting people to make better choices at the ballot box, and getting policy makers to make choices focused on good outcomes, not good short term polling.

It's a bit like the climate change thing. Deniers piss me off, but I still drive a car and live in the suburbs. Action has to come from policy.

Agreed.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

Yup, well done. The hard part is over.

Ok run into a weird snag, I can't connect to the net. I'm running an Ethernet cord from PC to router but it's not picking up anything. Should I install drivers from mobo disk?

Edit: never mind, just installed LAN driver from disk, will download rest. I can't believe I actually did it, I've built my first computer...

Any recommendations for temp tests etc afterwards?

 

[BananaArnie]

"Jalapeño man?[/B] Wat"


why is that what all the ausgaf jrs said?

 

[legend166]

Ok run into a weird snag, I can't connect to the net. I'm running an Ethernet cord from PC to router but it's not picking up anything. Should I install drivers from mobo disk?

Edit: never mind, just installed LAN driver from disk, will download rest. I can't believe I actually did it, I've built my first computer...

Any recommendations for temp tests etc afterwards?

I built my first one last year. It really is a good feeling when it's all done and everything works.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

I built my first one last year. It really is a good feeling when it's all done and everything works.

It sure is, I never thought I'd be able to do it. Just going to do MSE, bios and GPU updates and then I'll really take it for a spin.

 

[midonnay]

MRP gives Luke Shuey 2 weeks for trying to standup into Lindsay Thomas' testicles....

Sydney's going to make me cry ;_;

 

[Card Boy]

Do i want Crackdown 1 for around $10 tell me the pros and cons and be honest. Or is it a mediocre game only popular because of the Halo 3 beta?

 

[VOOK]

Do i want Crackdown 1 for around $10 tell me the pros and cons and be honest. Or is it a mediocre game only popular because of the Halo 3 beta?

Get Crackdown 2, it's basically the same but better.

Or just ask Gazunta. He'll tell ya.

 

[Lafiel]

Do i want Crackdown 1 for around $10 tell me the pros and cons and be honest. Or is it a mediocre game only popular because of the Halo 3 beta?

It's worth it for $10. Although I didn't think much of it.;p plenty of people loved it though! some say it's better than GTAIV.

 

[Omikron]

Ok, Aus-IRC-GAF has interest in board games online (Clipper is trying to organise a game of Ankh Morpork for this evening!), but as an aside to that, I have been using this piece of software for sometime now:

http://www.brettspielwelt.de/?nation=en

Basically it is an online platform for playing board games, mostly of the 'euro' style.

One that I recommend us starting on is '7 Wonders', which is a light strategy game that takes somewhere between 15 and 30 mins to play (close to 15 when you are used to the rules online because of no setup time!) and doesn't take too long to learn said rules either.

So if anyone is keen, maybe we can slate a day like... Wednesday evening to play?

If you are interested in learning the rules, a series of videos starting from this one is a good place to go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Wfdn5Es8U

 

[Fredescu]

Do i want Crackdown 1 for around $10 tell me the pros and cons and be honest. Or is it a mediocre game only popular because of the Halo 3 beta?

The platforming elements make it a must play at $10.

 

[legend166]

Crackdown > Crackdown 2.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

So the SSD is my boot drive and is working fine, but my HDD isn't coming up under Hard Drives in the my computer menu? It's detected cause I can see it in the bios. Any ideas?

 

[Fredescu]

So the SSD is my boot drive and is working fine, but my HDD isn't coming up under Hard Drives in the my computer menu? It's detected cause I can see it in the bios. Any ideas?

You have to go into disk management and create a volume on it, and then format that volume. Right click My Computer, Manage.

 

[evlcookie]

You have to go into disk management and create a volume on it, and then format that volume. Right click My Computer, Manage.

This. If it's a new hard drive.

 

[Fredescu]

I'm pretty sure he bought a data drive to go with his SSD and that's the one that he's talking about. You've definitely instilled some doubt in me though.

Dearest Sutton Dagger,

Do not format the drive if you want to keep the data on it.

kindest regards,

 

[Sutton Dagger]

God I love you guys, done. My 2T drive is now detected. Alright, time to get my GPU drivers and then to do some stress tests. What good fan speed program should I get?

Edit: btw what folders can I move from my SSD to my HDD so I don't run out of space? Can the whole Users folder just be transferred without issues?

 

[Card Boy]

Guess i will avoid Crackdown 1 and get number 2?

I was watching some reviews and from what i gathered:

* the games have no story? Literally barebones nothing. Is the story from CD2 the same as 1?
* Its the same city with updated graphics?
* Afew new toys to play with?

Does CD2 do anything worse than CD1? I'm watching an Ebay auction that is going to end in under 2hrs.

 

[Fredescu]

Can you get CD2 for $10?

Don't Ebay Auctions always double in price in the last 10 seconds anyway?