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AusGAF 7 - We hang out IRL now and be social and shit. (Also, Adrian's Revenge)

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Dead Man

Member
AVCon got 20,000 people? No wonder the city was overrun with bad half costumes on Sunday.

So glad I have Foxtel, 8 HD channels of Olympics. The Archery gold medal was amazing, Italy beat the US by 1 point in the last shot, dude scored a 10. Fucking amazing.

Where do you live? So jelly. Expat Shield looks like being my friend so I can watch the BBC coverage.

it's mah birfdei!

I 100%'d Arkham Asylum but not AC. I spent most of my time in AC in the infinite beat-up-thugs DLC room.

Happy birthday!
 

Raxum

Member
1. play some bot games
2. go to the OT in gaming, go to the links for noobs, read them > understand them
3. come play dota with us, if you are happy to get on mumble i will happily tell you what to do
4. we usually enjoy all our games win or loose, it probably isn't a bad learning environment (arnie might disagree)

I've played a few bot games, and I used to play screw around games at a netcafe with friends of the original dota. But that was a while ago, really enjoyed playing Tiny(dat throw), Nature's Prophet(Holla Holla) and PL so far, I used to play Broodmother but I can't seem to pick her back up again, seems I've lost a lot of my micro ability since I played Dota1. Might play a few more bot games first, try and at least beat normal bots a few times, but I seem to get grouped with people who get killed a lot, and really the bots do NOT need to be fed, they're already pretty ridiculous.

Edit: Happy Birthday Jintor!
 
I've played a few bot games, and I used to play screw around games at a netcafe with friends of the original dota. But that was a while ago, really enjoyed playing Tiny(dat throw), Nature's Prophet(Holla Holla) and PL so far, I used to play Broodmother but I can't seem to pick her back up again, seems I've lost a lot of my micro ability since I played Dota1. Might play a few more bot games first, try and at least beat normal bots a few times, but I seem to get grouped with people who get killed a lot, and really the bots do NOT need to be fed, they're already pretty ridiculous.

Edit: Happy Birthday Jintor!

Yea bots are somewhat well co-ordinated. playing with other people against bots is risky, but i guess it is better than playing you and bots against bots.

sounds like you are at least somewhat experienced, you should probably just join us for games. add myself (darkares01, or though ausgaf members) and i'll let you know when we are playing, no doubt u will see if you are in ausgaf chat anyway. we are usually in dire need of good support players, ridonk and donc generally both pick carries.
 

Yagharek

Member
Not a bad one, as I don't eve n know what game that is :D

I got 100% on Blast Corps. That was fucking ridiculous in difficulty.

I still am yet to play blast corps.

Blasto was a 3D platformer on PS1, kind of inspired by the old Loony Tunes classics like Marvin the Martian with the flat suspended in space platforms, glass elevators etc. It was the game that Next Gen (US Edge) said they regretted giving a cover story to, and was the game behind the u r not (red) e campaign.

Oh, and it was voiced by Phil Hartman. He died a week before it came out. :(
 

Raxum

Member
Yea bots are somewhat well co-ordinated. playing with other people against bots is risky, but i guess it is better than playing you and bots against bots.

sounds like you are at least somewhat experienced, you should probably just join us for games. add myself (darkares01, or though ausgaf members) and i'll let you know when we are playing, no doubt u will see if you are in ausgaf chat anyway. we are usually in dire need of good support players, ridonk and donc generally both pick carries.

Okay, well I might read up a bit more about support picks then and who they counter and how to build them. I know NP is supposed to be a support, but generally when I play him in bot games he ends up carrying with that ult and the global tele. It's so ridiculous for making ganks successful and chasing the one that got away in team fights. Might try and play a few games with you guys during the week sometime, though I can't lock in a time as yet.
 
Okay, well I might read up a bit more about support picks then and who they counter and how to build them. I know NP is supposed to be a support, but generally when I play him in bot games he ends up carrying with that ult and the global tele. It's so ridiculous for making ganks successful and chasing the one that got away in team fights. Might try and play a few games with you guys during the week sometime, though I can't lock in a time as yet.

Yea no worries man, just whenever you are free, generally someone will be playing from 6pm onwards during weeknights. NP in a proper role should be neutral farming/ganking lanes/pushing lanes, the latter 2 via his TP. i only ward with a NP if we lack other supports
 

Danoss

Member
I was thinking of giving DOTA 2 a try with some AusGAF people for a bit of fun. It seems that the chances of fun occurring are quite low. If I want to get angry and frustrated though, it sounds like it's right up my alley.
 
I was thinking of giving DOTA 2 a try with some AusGAF people for a bit of fun. It seems that the chances of fun occurring are quite low. If I want to get angry and frustrated though, it sounds like it's right up my alley.
Dota 2 (and I assume most MOBAs) is all about smashing yourself up against the enemy over and over and over again like waves crashing against a wall.

Does not seem fun to me.

My face when DPRK has more gold medals than Australia.
Being threatened with a life in coal mines seems to be a good motivator.
 

Raxum

Member
Yea no worries man, just whenever you are free, generally someone will be playing from 6pm onwards during weeknights. NP in a proper role should be neutral farming/ganking lanes/pushing lanes, the latter 2 via his TP. i only ward with a NP if we lack other supports

Ah okay, any recommendations for supports to learn then? Lina always seems pretty strong so I'm actually surprised to see her in support in the Dota2 thread. I'd assume she's a bit harder to learn though. Maybe I should stick with the recommendations in the Dota2 thead...
 

Danoss

Member
Dota 2 (and I assume most MOBAs) is all about smashing yourself up against the enemy over and over and over again like waves crashing against a wall.

Does not seem fun to me.

Yeah, it seems like crushing your testicles in a gear assembly. Repeatedly. With other people doing the same thing nearby.
 
Ah okay, any recommendations for supports to learn then? Lina always seems pretty strong so I'm actually surprised to see her in support in the Dota2 thread. I'd assume she's a bit harder to learn though. Maybe I should stick with the recommendations in the Dota2 thead...

Quite possibly, lina is only hard because her stun has a delay and she is squish(like most ints)

By far the easiest support to use is vengeful spirit, she is also amazing. If you don't like that, windrunner can be played as a support, enigma is a safe-ish pick cause you just jungle farm and go ganking when u hit level 6. plenty of options out there, but basically anyone with a stun is a good starting point because you can run in stun, use other abilities etc and you job is done. so even if you die, you have assisted the teamfight.
 

remz

Member
Yeah, it seems like crushing your testicles in a gear assembly. Repeatedly. With other people doing the same thing nearby.

It's only like that for your first few games.

the victories in DOTA far outweigh the losses and it's probably the most rewarding game there is. yes the matches are long, the game is hard, and it sucks when you lose but it's also super fun. :D

try it before trashing it
 

Raxum

Member
Dota 2 (and I assume most MOBAs) is all about smashing yourself up against the enemy over and over and over again like waves crashing against a wall.

Does not seem fun to me.

Does this mean you don't like any games with combat? Multiplayer FPS games, most PVP in MMOs, and probably actually a lot of PvE content, and fighting games could all follow this same description.

Also, Marshmellow; I'll take that into account, and might try a few of those in bot games over the next couple of nights, but I'd assume supports in pub games probably aren't a smart idea and I'll probably lose because I'm not carrying the team. :p
 
Does this mean you don't like any games with combat? Multiplayer FPS games, most PVP in MMOs, and probably actually a lot of PvE content, and fighting games could all follow this same description.

Also, Marshmellow; I'll take that into account, and might try a few of those in bot games over the next couple of nights, but I'd assume supports in pub games probably aren't a smart idea and I'll probably lose because I'm not carrying the team. :p

Cool, sounds good, play with us if u can though. :D

protip - It is harder to play a good support than it is to carry. Likewise a carry can't be good without a good supporting team
 
Does this mean you don't like any games with combat? Multiplayer FPS games, most PVP in MMOs, and probably actually a lot of PvE content, and fighting games could all follow this same description.
Disagree. Dota 2 seems like there's barely anything to it other than smashing into the other guy over and over again. It's like an RTS with all the fun bits removed. There's no room for real tactics because you have the lanes which force people together instead of allowing any sort of battlefield manoeuvring.

I'm sure there are tactics if you dig in enough, but why would I want to bother when the core game doesn't seem any fun?
 
It's only like that for your first few games.

the victories in DOTA far outweigh the losses and it's probably the most rewarding game there is. yes the matches are long, the game is hard, and it sucks when you lose but it's also super fun. :D

try it before trashing it

I tried dota2 and dota-alikes. I trash it.
 

Danoss

Member
Does this mean you don't like any games with combat? Multiplayer FPS games, most PVP in MMOs, and probably actually a lot of PvE content, and fighting games could all follow this same description.

This wasn't directed at me, but I enjoyed a lot of my time playing WoW. The PvE content was great, but I cannot stand PvP, because it is exactly what Cods described. While there are a few shining moments of brilliance, I find that they are drowned out by all crushing defeats and tedious fights.

PvE content, I can see the light on the other side and it comes down to great execution and teamwork to get there. It might take some work and frustrating losses to get there, but at least there is some tangible progress being made. I can't say the same for PvP and thus find it lacking in the thing called 'fun'.
 
Disagree. Dota 2 seems like there's barely anything to it other than smashing into the other guy over and over again. It's like an RTS with all the fun bits removed. There's no room for real tactics because you have the lanes which force people together instead of allowing any sort of battlefield manoeuvring.

I'm sure there are tactics if you dig in enough, but why would I want to bother when the core game doesn't seem any fun?

You are quite clearly speaking with only knowledge from face value of the game. Basically DOTA is a 5v5 teamfight game that requires everyone to work together as well as perform their individual roles well.
There is a TONNE of strategy in the game, 40% based around player skill ie. last hitting/denying/lane control/ganking
40% based on hero builds/item purchases ie. items being bought smartly and to counter either heroes or other team's item purchases
20% based on the pick screen at the start, the ability to counter other hero picks and general knowledge of how each hero plays/works well with other heroes/individual abilities

So overall i would say there is a lot of strategy and tactics to the game. To put it simply, you don't see me playing a game against Navi or AL and beating them, if i was in a game with them i would cry in a corner because of the skill difference and tactical thinking they do every game.

Obviously if you don't like the game, you don't like it. But it seems unfair to hate on something (like no tactics involved) when there in-fact are many.
 

evlcookie

but ever so delicious
Disagree. Dota 2 seems like there's barely anything to it other than smashing into the other guy over and over again. It's like an RTS with all the fun bits removed. There's no room for real tactics because you have the lanes which force people together instead of allowing any sort of battlefield manoeuvring.

I'm sure there are tactics if you dig in enough, but why would I want to bother when the core game doesn't seem any fun?

I actually disagree with this and I never though I would enjoy something like Dota.

LoL is probably more about smashing into each other. They tend to say LoL is over within 30 minutes and whoever gets the boss thingy on the map first pretty much wins.

The lanes certainly don't force you together. Different characters have different roles which is where the tactics come into it.

You could pick 5 heroes who are all geared towards a team fight, initiating that and controlling it. If you're the other team then you need to pick off heroes one by one. Maybe you have a ganker like nightstalker, who is only really useful at night. During the day his kinda shitty and if you have a GOOD nightstalker (Im fucking terrible) then as soon as night comes along he starts to roam the battlefield grouping up with others in lanes to take down the other team.

You then have things like wards which give you vision of the map which is fucking crucial. It barely happens in pubs since most people don't care but in a pro game, if you don't have vision you're essentially fucked.

Smoke lets you group up and become invisible. If you're all missing from the map then it's kinda obvious you're either smoked or maybe at roshan (dota 2 boss thingy).

Then there's roshan. Killing that guy gives you the aegis, which is a second life after a few seconds of dying. You put that on a hard carry and he is something to be feared.

The hard carry, A person who is mostly useless without items. You need to farm in the lane or jungle, depending on which hero you picked and how the lanes are sorted.

The jungle. ... etc etc

Dota 2 is pretty fucking deep with a ton of tactics. You could look at it as solely, working up to a single point to allow you to take a team fight where tons of shit happens in a short period of time and you have no idea what just went on.

But it isn't just that.
 

Raxum

Member
Disagree. Dota 2 seems like there's barely anything to it other than smashing into the other guy over and over again. It's like an RTS with all the fun bits removed. There's no room for real tactics because you have the lanes which force people together instead of allowing any sort of battlefield manoeuvring.

I'm sure there are tactics if you dig in enough, but why would I want to bother when the core game doesn't seem any fun?

See I find that to be the same thing with the other games, except sometimes with a little less skill. The only reason I can get into PvE in an MMO is if the core gameplay is fun, which, for me, WoW-style click and spam PvE isn't fun anymore, I used to find it fun but it's gotten boring. There's plenty of tactics in Dota2 and honestly you don't even have to stick to the lanes, that's just what is seen as most efficient, though I seem to remember hearing about a team that had 1 person laning and the rest of his team roaming around ganking and farming neutral creeps and not following typical strategy at all and winning.

It's fine if you don't find the core gameplay fun, but there is a lot more to that game than mashing yourself into the other team, just as there is in objective-based PvP in MMOs and FPS games. The actual point is to destroy the enemy's base, and sometimes you don't even actually have to teamfight for that to happen, you can push around the enemy team if they are stupid enough.

Obviously I've been beaten by two others, and it really is each to their own, like I enjoyed PvE in WoW and other MMOs I've played, but never really got into PvP in them for the same reasons that Danoss described below. And I can't play fighting games anywhere near good enough because I just don't understand the mechanics enough and don't find them enjoyable enough to try to understand them. So far I've enjoyed Dota2, despite my losses against the bots, the few wins I've gotten seem to far outweigh those losses.

Edit: Not finding a game enjoyable is just fine, it's the exact reason I un-installed Diablo 3 after I'd finished the story mode once. I gave it some time, tried to enjoy it, but I wasn't enjoying it after sinking like 5-10 hours into it, so why would I continue? But my rebuttal is against your saying there is no strategy. That's like looking at an apple pie and saying it doesn't have apple in it because you can't see the apple.
 
You are quite clearly speaking with only knowledge from face value of the game.
Indeed I am. But given that I didn't find it fun why would I play any further? I already have a tonne of other games more deserving (IMO) of my time. You shouldn't feel compelled to convince me that the game is fun -- if you enjoy it, great, I would prefer to spend my time with something else.

Dota 2 is pretty fucking deep with a ton of tactics.
I don't know if a wealth of items necessarily equates to depth (chess has only a small number of units but infinite tactics that are a lot about manoeuvring your units) but I doubt there are that many games where that is the case.

There's plenty of tactics in Dota2 and honestly you don't even have to stick to the lanes, that's just what is seen as most efficient, though I seem to remember hearing about a team that had 1 person laning and the rest of his team roaming around ganking and farming neutral creeps and not following typical strategy at all and winning.
It might be that MOBAs aren't particularly welcoming to newcomers, possibly more so than other types of games. If I don't enjoy it, I'm not going to hang around long, especially because it's free and I have no innate need to feel like I've got my money's worth.

Perhaps if I find myself on a staycation I might spend a bit more time with it, but only if I don't feel like playing anything else I already have. Until then, I don't see my opinion swaying much. But I don't really care for competitive RTSes like Starcraft either. It's fun if you're tooling around but once people start taking it too seriously, I'm out.
 

Rezbit

Member
The part I enjoy most about Dota 2 is actually playing with 4 other Ausgaffers and chatting away in Mumble. Yes sometimes we all get shitty at the game or other people (but that's true of anything competitive I suppose), but 95% of the time it's just good fun. Especially laughing at Donk and his shitty pinging.
 

Raxum

Member
Perhaps if I find myself on a staycation I might spend a bit more time with it, but only if I don't feel like playing anything else I already have. Until then, I don't see my opinion swaying much. But I don't really care for competitive RTSes like Starcraft either. It's fun if you're tooling around but once people start taking it too seriously, I'm out.

That's fair enough, as I said in my edit that I think I posted as you were replying to my line, not enjoying a game is a good reason not to play it, and agreed, if it's free I feel less obligation to keep playing compared to a game I paid for. But even so, my objection wasn't to you not enjoying the game, it was to the broad face-value statement about there not being any strategy.

In other news, it looks like I might not be able to game for a while, the brand new harddrive I got with my new computer has started playing up and a diagnostics run on it shows that it's not very healthy. Unfortunately that partition has my windows on it, and while it still runs it's not really running at 100%. I've ordered an SSD from Amazon, and am now patiently waiting for that to arrive in the mail. So once I get that I get the fun of re-installing windows and then working on moving all my gaming stuff off the screwed drive. The SSD I got has good reviews for stability, so hopefully I won't have this problem again, but I am trying out using the mSATA port on my MOBO.
 

Fredescu

Member
You shouldn't feel compelled to convince me that the game is fun -- if you enjoy it, great, I would prefer to spend my time with something else.
It's one thing to say a game isn't fun, but it's entirely another to say that it has no "real tactics". I've never gotten into MOBAs either, but I can see there is quite a lot to them.
 
Birth Happy Day Jintor! Congrats!

Ok, who here will own up to collecting all the riddler shit in Batman AC? :p
Fuck no! Once I found 2 or 3 to be stupidly hard reaction puzzles I gave it a miss. Think I did around 100 of them. Might do them on my Steam playthrough though with a tablet walkthrough next to me! Waiting for the 10/10 edition to drop in price on 360 before doing my console cheevo run.

It seems like I've played about 12 hours of the game, which includes playing some of the fight/stealth challenges and playing about 2 hours of New Game+.
Really? Shit, I thought I played about 20 hours :/
Maybe I am just slow.

Wheres the cheapest place to order Halo 4 LE? EB and JB have it for $128, but at least with EB i can get double reward points and a Halo 4 poster.

edit: woah, Hardly Normal has it for $118. Do i trust them after i never got my last order?
I have had nothing but great things to say about HN with their sales. Might be because my local store don't give a fuck but aside from the lack of communication from the Online Store team and the local store it has been easy. Picked up LEGO Harry Potter 2 and Saints Row 3 on 360 for $16 each online and picked them up from the local store the next day when I got an email. AC2-3 was out of stock at the store and they just said I could still order it at $16 and wait the 5 or so days for a copy to be sent down here from another store which was great. As long as you contact them they are pretty easy to get along with.

Need more of these dirty gaming confessionals. :p
I never finished FF8 even after 100%ing FF7 :/

MSY were happy enough to take the crappy OCZ and they had the Samsung in stock to boot :)
Nice! What size did you go with?
 

hamchan

Member
Disagree. Dota 2 seems like there's barely anything to it other than smashing into the other guy over and over again. It's like an RTS with all the fun bits removed. There's no room for real tactics because you have the lanes which force people together instead of allowing any sort of battlefield manoeuvring.

I'm sure there are tactics if you dig in enough, but why would I want to bother when the core game doesn't seem any fun?

Nope, wrong. As a big fan of both SC2 and Dota 2, I feel there is way more strategy in Dota. The current SC2 metagame has felt the same for the past year now. That's the problem with the traditional RTS like SC2, there is an optimal way to play for one race against another race that everyone just uses that for months on end. Dota doesn't have that problem. The huge cast of characters and items leads to an incredible amount of possible combinations, so the metagame will never stagnate.

Also you are certainly not forced to stick in your lane at all, I really don't know where you got that idea for. In fact, the whole pro level game has constant ganking and moving from lane to lane from the first minute.
 

r1chard

Member
Nice! What size did you go with?
It's the 128GB one that I originally wanted, but they didn't have in stock when I bought all the parts slightly over a week ago ;-)

128GB should be plenty enough to keep Windows 7 happy (some people say 60GB is enough, but I think that'd be pushing it...

And so far things look much more stable than the OCZ - ie. no crashes at all :)
 
I'm enjoying Tony Hawk HD. I normally don't bother with remakes but I'm enjoying the fact it's levels from the first two games rather than the likes of THPS4 and beyond.

I'm not a 100%er of any game but THPS1 and 2 where the closest I ever got. They alongside JSR and Crazy Taxi were the reason I look back on the Dreamcast so fondly.

Roll on Jet Set Radio.
 

legend166

Member
Also, to say there is no battlefield manoeuvring in Dota 2 just says you haven't played against Ridonk and his evil hook shot of doom.
 
It's one thing to say a game isn't fun, but it's entirely another to say that it has no "real tactics". I've never gotten into MOBAs either, but I can see there is quite a lot to them.

Exactly why i felt compelled to defence force DOTA 2 in the beginning. I am in no way trying to convince cods to like a game that he clearly does not enjoy. I just don't like the fact that he might potentially just not enjoy it or be hating on it from a point he is not aware of.
 
YET ANOTHER T-SHIRT WEBSITE! Seems to have good prices and more importantly some realllly cool gaming designs. T-Shirt every 2 days, etc. Hope they have cheap international postage!

TMBLR.jpg


I blocked this whole thing from my mind but accidentally read that Paul Barnett was involved today. Made me sad again, the series deserves so much better. :(

It's the 128GB one that I originally wanted, but they didn't have in stock when I bought all the parts slightly over a week ago ;-)

128GB should be plenty enough to keep Windows 7 happy (some people say 60GB is enough, but I think that'd be pushing it...

And so far things look much more stable than the OCZ - ie. no crashes at all :)
Ah nice, I would recommend 128GB at the minimum, especially with prices so good at the moment.

I'm enjoying Tony Hawk HD. I normally don't bother with remakes but I'm enjoying the fact it's levels from the first two games rather than the likes of THPS4 and beyond.

I'm not a 100%er of any game but THPS1 and 2 where the closest I ever got. They alongside JSR and Crazy Taxi were the reason I look back on the Dreamcast so fondly.

Roll on Jet Set Radio.
Still haven't grabbed THPS HD because of the stripped out nature. Would have loved a proper HD version of either of the first 2 games but getting only like 1/4 of each game wasn't enough to part with 1200 Allards.

Jet Set looks like a fantastic re-release and will get my money day one though. SEGA been doing good work lately.
 
This has probably already been posted but tickets are on sale now for the 'Festival of Dangerous Ideas' in Sydney. I'll only be able to go to the one talk as I have a friends wedding on that weekend :( 'The delusion of free will' by Sam Harris.

List of all talks:

SUN 23 SEPT
Israel Is An Apartheid State

FRI 28 SEPT
The Delusion Of Free Will

SAT 29 SEPT
Abolish Private Schools
All Australians Are Racist
By The Sea, Freedom
Children Are Not Innocent
China ♥ America
How Many Dangerous...
I Share Therefore I Am
Let Banks Fail
Make More Mistakes
My Workplace Is A Cult
The Devil Is Real
The End Of Growth
Who Owns Australia

SUN 30 SEPT
A Foetus Is Not A Person
All Women Hate Each Other
Anzac Day: Best We Forget
Bono And Bob, Get Out...
By The Sea, Freedom
Engineer Humans To Stop...
Genital Cutting Is Normal
How To Solve All The ...
If Mother Nature Could...
Justice Is More Important...
The Coming Civil War...
The US Elections: Just...
The Joy Of Sin
The War In Afghanistan...
We Are All Sexual Perverts
We Are The Gods Now
You Are Being...
 
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