Danoss, iv been thinking and i agree with you more that the dnd system isnt the best. the main reason for me at least is that nothings very clear anymore with the introduction of the essentials line and 4e in general things got over complicated. what other systems do you recommend
edit: also i never thought it was the best in case anyone read it like that, i just didnt hate it
Apologies in advance for this long post. I hope some other roleplayers read it because there might be something of interest in here for them too.
If you're looking for an alternative to D&D, it will depend on what sort of experience you're looking for. The main thing would be knowing what sort of story you would like to tell and how involved your character is in the shaping of this.
The problem I have with D&D, and I've probably expressed this at length numerous times, is that it is heavily geared towards tactical combat and not much more. Roleplay can occur as much as you like outside of this, but the system won't get involved in much, if any, of it. There may be an occasional diplomacy check, nature, arcana or insight check or maybe a skill challenge, but they're not very deep or involved. The system won't really step in until one side or the other says "I don't like what you're doing and where this is going, so now I will hit you and we will fight to the death, winner gets the other person's stuff".
Many people like it, but it really becomes apparent as you reach higher levels how problematic it can be. I just played on Saturday and our characters are Level 26. One combat encounter took about 3 hours, that's right,
one combat encounter. That's not fun or ideal. We've tried to streamline combat as much as possible including being up front with enemy stats so we know what is needed to hit before choosing a power ahead of time. We cannot make it any quicker without completely overhauling the combat system, and that would defeat the purpose of playing the D&D system in the first place. It's absurd, especially when calculating damage takes longer than anything else, when writing out dice totals or pulling out a calculator to tally damage is necessary, it has gone
way too far; at this point its an exercise in maths class, not a game.
Of course this is the design of D&D. It is meant to tell the story of someone starting off as a lowly acolyte in their chosen field and ascending to the power of a god. The rising stats, complexity of abilities, dice pools and damage all feed into the power fantasy the game is designed to be. This is the experience and the story that D&D will tell, time and time again; it is not something I wish to experience again and it seems you may have grown tired of this as well as the increasing complexity of the game over time since its release.
Memorable moments have come from when a character has said or done something funny or cool, like trying to pick up a female NPC while playing the guy who blurts out absurd things due to his awkwardness and getting shot down, not from the time he rolled a crit and then rolled up 250 damage as a result. Both of these things happened on Saturday and only one of them will have me and others talking about it for years to come. Because of this, I like there to be more of a story and less of a focus on powers or abilities and ridiculous damage.
If you like the combat aspect of D&D but wish for it to be dialed back somewhat and for characters to have a little more involvement in the story of the world they inhabit, then maybe
13th Age would be the game to look at. It's designed by Jonathan Tweet and Rob Heinsoo, lead designers of D&D 3e and 4e respectively. A grid isn't required at all, miniatures and tokens still are, but only as a quick reference for three aspects of combat engagement and nothing more. The combat is much more streamlined for faster play, but while having a great feel to it; it feels overwhelming to begin with as monsters are strong and seem to have the upper hand, but the momentum swings into the players favour as the rounds go on which has a more cinematic feel and a win feels earned. There is
so much more to it of course, but I could be typing for ages. The book is shipping now and pre-orders have gone nuts, it is a big deal.
A game that is quite a bit looser and played by the seat of your pants at times, where players have a lot of input into what happens is
Dungeon World. The rules aren't restrictive at all and a creative player with a great imagination can really bring the game to life. I'm waiting for the book to become available again before I can purchase it and have a read, so I can't go into great detail. I do have other games similar to it that are set in different genres (apocalypse, monster hunting a la Buffy/Supernatural/X-Files, teen monster drama and a couple of others) but allow the same freedoms at the table.
Now, one that just finished on Kickstarter is
Torchbearer. I received the PDF just last week and the book will shortly go to press. It was sold as a love letter to basic D&D. In Torchbearer, you have chosen the life of an adventurer for there is no other option, no inheritance, job or other opportunity awaits. You may become a hero, but you must fight for it every inch of the way and it won't be easy; but this is not what the game is about, it is about exploration and survival.
Dungeons are old and dark places that hold valuable treasures, but the way is perilous and who knows what may lie in wait. There is only so much bag space to carry the necessary resources to survive your time in the dungeon, not just conquer and loot whatever it is you may find there. Rations of food and water as well as the light of your torch will be in short supply, your time below ground is limited by the longevity of these things; how much loot you may escape with will also be determined by how much space you can spare in your backpack. Clearly this game is on the gritty side of the genre, evoking the feel of being in a dungeon with limited resources. It has a different feel, tells a different story and delivers a different experience. I like the idea of this, the fun is in the challenge and struggle of your circumstances, not inevitable triumph over whatever it may be that your encounter. A few Kobolds or Orcs should and do strike fear in the heart of an adventurer.
On Saturday, when one of the players commented on the difficulty of one of the encounters, as the GM had turned it up a bit, the response from my GM was damn funny. "OH MY GOD THEY'RE DEFENDING THEMSELVES! Isn't it better when you can't just steamroll your way through the enemies?" He's right. Although D&D is generally balanced to the PCs eventually winning, knowing you will eventually conquer your enemy can take the wind out of the sails quite a bit.
Aside from these 3 games above, there are a number of others out there that can deliver a different and unique experience to the game table.
Mouse Guard and
Burning Wheel use a similar system to Torchbearer and have a different focus,
On Mighty Thews is all about the pulp fantasy the likes of Robert E. Howard,
Savage Worlds has some cool settings that can deliver a lot of fun (though I haven't read too much into it), and many others. The selection is vast, it's all down to the experience you would like and the story you want to see unfold. Recommending or finding a system that will do this is relatively simple once this is known.
Once you step out of the fantasy genre, there are countless other games to be experienced and if you think of something you'd like, I'm sure there is a game out there that can make that happen. Want to play Ghostbusters? Done. Inception? Done. Cyberpunk, kids fighting nightmarish monsters, horror movie, pirates, dystopian dilinquent teenagers, superheroes, zombie outbreak, noir, amnesia? All doable, in my collection and there are many more.
I'm sorry this carried on so long, I had some time to kill before my doctors appointment this afternoon, but I hope there was at least a couple of things you liked or at least were partially interested in. If you want to discuss a little more in depth on mumble or something, let me know, I'm more than happy to.
I want to get some AusGAF RP happening soon and I'm well aware I've been saying that for a while, but I really do. Having some input and discussion with interested parties might help get that happening sooner. I'm looking at some new systems that I haven't played and being able to bounce things off other people would be excellent to make sure I've grasped a system properly and that at least one other person knows it. I have PDFs available to share if there are any volunteers or interested parties.
