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AusGAF 9 - F*** Off, We're Full (Of People With Different Ethnic Backgrounds)

jambo

Member
This is the best bit:

The members of the Classification Review Board are chosen to be broadly representative of the Australian community. This means that they are drawn from diverse areas, age groups and backgrounds. Board members are not required to hold any specific qualifications, but they must meet certain selection criteria which reflects the experience and qualities needed to effectively carry out their role.

http://www.classification.gov.au/About/BoardMembers/Pages/Classification-Review-Board-Members.aspx

Four middle aged white women and a middle aged white man...
 

Danoss

Member
Heard a loud thump on the doorstep this morning and rushed out having a good inkling what it might be. Sure enough, the 13th Age book was nested within the box perched there.

The core book in all its glory with the signed bookplate to be stuck inside if I so wish (and I do).

zasVFIE.jpg


I had seen the inside before since I have had the PDF for some time. Seeing it in the flesh is different. It's gorgeous and I cannot convey that in any photograph. Here are a bunch and while there may be too many for some, I can't help myself because I'm pretty excited.

5Jl5Kmr.jpg


Fp2ZdSA.jpg


iSpB2iN.jpg


bZnpgUp.jpg


eQtSYh5.jpg


Obviously I've focused on the beautiful art found within and a little of the layout as a sample of the text does little to convey much.

It's a big year for RPGs with many more great things on the horizon. There will no doubt be more posts like this as a number of other games hit the presses and are sent my way. I could list a number of them, but I won't because there are so many on my radar. It is an exciting time though.
 
This is the best bit:



http://www.classification.gov.au/About/BoardMembers/Pages/Classification-Review-Board-Members.aspx

Four middle aged white women and a middle aged white man...
That's all well and good if you're going to be shallow and cherry-pick the information that supports only your opinion. You are, however, failing to mention that they all have different degrees, different work histories and live in different houses. Presumably they are also involved with different partners and may or may not have children... which may also be different. their pictures show them in different coloured shirts and sporting different hair styles. Only two of them wear classes. Going out on a limb, I also think they may have a diverse opinion of their favourite books, comfort foods, and if they are a 'cat person' or 'dog person.'
 

Shaneus

Member
TNT are a pack of cunts. Apparently my replacement iPad is "Out for delivery" and has been since 8:49 this morning, but here it is at 5:40pm and not a fucking sign of it anywhere.

Useless turds.
 
Heard a loud thump on the doorstep this morning and rushed out having a good inkling what it might be. Sure enough, the 13th Age book was nested within the box perched there.
That looks delicious! Nice to see a ton of art too.

That's all well and good if you're going to be shallow and cherry-pick the information that supports only your opinion. You are, however, failing to mention that they all have different degrees, different work histories and live in different houses. Presumably they are also involved with different partners and may or may not have children... which may also be different. their pictures show them in different coloured shirts and sporting different hair styles. Only two of them wear classes. Going out on a limb, I also think they may have a diverse opinion of their favourite books, comfort foods, and if they are a 'cat person' or 'dog person.'

They also don't play games.
 

jambo

Member
From what I can tell PJ, they mostly have Arts and Law degrees. Wouldn't it be better to have some people with Psychology or Social Studies degrees?

And some younger people, perhaps who play games? Melissa de Zwart sounds the closest, reading manga and play games.

I suppose the real issue here is still the actual guidelines. I understand that games are a slightly different beast to movies, but there are so many R18+ movies that have stuff 10x worse than what's in Saints Row IV.

TNT are a pack of cunts. Apparently my replacement iPad is "Out for delivery" and has been since 8:49 this morning, but here it is at 5:40pm and not a fucking sign of it anywhere.

Useless turds.

That happens all the time. They don't always get a chance to deliver everything they take out.
 
Remember when we celebrated the R18 Classification coming in but secretly we all knew that it wasn't going to change anything but at least we could fool ourselves into thinking that it was going to change things until the inevitable string of refusals came in?

Ah, good times.

We all knew that all it was for was violent games that were previously too graphic would now get through. The same drug and sex rules were still instant RC.

Basically mortal kombat 10 is likely the only beneficiary
 

Shaneus

Member
That happens all the time. They don't always get a chance to deliver everything they take out.
Well, they have my contact details, they should try using them. Besides, how can they run out of time to deliver something in the CBD? Understandable if its in the sticks, but not if its in an area where there are bound to be numerous deliveries.

Not so much pissed that I didn't get it today, just that they said I would and waited for an hour after work needlessly.
 
From what I can tell PJ, they mostly have Arts and Law degrees. Wouldn't it be better to have some people with Psychology or Social Studies degrees?

And some younger people, perhaps who play games? Melissa de Zwart sounds the closest, reading manga and play games.

I suppose the real issue here is still the actual guidelines. I understand that games are a slightly different beast to movies, but there are so many R18+ movies that have stuff 10x worse than what's in Saints Row IV.
Some points in response:
1. I can't tell if you took me seriously.
2. No, really, I can't tell. It's freaking me out a bit that you possibly did.
3. Psychology and Social Studies don't help when the good book is around to tell you what's right and wrong.
4. It's still bugging me. No, you didn't. Surely?
5. Having gamers in there is (IMHO) a bad idea. I don't think it's necessarily good to remove impartiality from the people classify media and if you have someone with an interest in perhaps seeing that game released, it may cause issues in the future if the decision is called into question. Realistically, being able to play a game does not dictate a persons ability to scrutinise the contents of a game and decide if it contains morally or socially unacceptable themes.
6. I don't think you can really make analogous comparison between the contents of a movie/book and game. Even though it's usually overstated by the media, I think there is a discernible difference between witnessing an objectionable scene in a movie and participating in it with a game. To use an overly extreme example: To me, watching the rape scene in Irreversible was horrific, tough, emotional and very uncomfortable but still acceptable to be given an R18 classification by the government. As liberal (in the traditional sense of the word) as I believe I am, I would be hard pressed to defend the game and fight for it to be released over here. There is a huge difference, psychologically, between being a witness to an event and being asked to commit it and be in control of what's happening. Especially if there is a reward at the end for the player, even if it is just proceeding with the game.
7. It still isn't sitting right with me. Nope.
8. I will, however, fight that as an adult, I should be given the requisite trust by my government to be able to make my own decisions about what I wish to play, watch and read. If books and movies can contain drugs, sexual violence, racism, and any other number of social unacceptable themes, then so should games. I personally have a limit, but that limit will not be shared by others equally; which is when my choice as a consumer comes into play not the choice of a committee.
 
Just going to say this about public servants (and including the ACB staff).

They are pretty good at divorcing their personal opinions and tastes and following the letter of the law. They are not big on making interpretations, preferring to be use precedents in their decisions. They have to justify their decisions if the shit hits the fans so they won't go out on a limb. It's like when judges give weak sentences to dangerous psychopaths. Under the law, that's all they can do.

So even if say, for argument's sake, Choc or any of Eve's other faces was on the board, they'd still have to RC Saint's Row IV.
 
So they shouldn't watch films or TV shows either?
I don't think the ability to see, hear or read impede someone's ability to tell right from wrong. If I couldn't read, and someone told me a book was all about [insert objectionable item here] that doesn't effect my ability to tell if it's objectionable. Likewise, if I had no vision, and someone told be a film was 90 minutes of [insert objectionable item here], I think I would still be able to tell if it were objectionable.

Why do you have to be a gamer to tell if something is objectionable?
 

Jintor

Member
Aussies can't handle drugs. It's widely known. Any mention of a drug possibly having a good effect, why, it goes straight to their brains. They can't get enough of it. They'll sell their own kids for a piece of media telling them drugs might give you +1 in an attribute.
 
Also unknowing, unappreciative and unengaged.

And uneducated.
What part of their "education" are they missing? What does whether or not they have played a game before have to do with their ability to judge the inappropriateness of its themes or mechanics? Having played lots of games in my life, am I suddenly okay with performing objectionable acts? Is this the education that they've missed out on?

Should the people classifying books has a certain number of years reading under their belt before they're given the role? Should they ready a certain number of books per year to qualify? Do they need to have read certain books before they become "appreciative," "knowing," and educated enough before they can imagine that [insert objectionable item here] is acceptable for the public?

In closing, how many games do I need to have played before I can decide on whether anal rape is an acceptable game mechanic? Or at least appreciate it.

If you are charge of telling me what I can and can't do I would expect you to at least have a basic understanding of said topic.
What's the topic? Game? I'm pretty sure they know what it is and having played Mario, Sonic, CoD and Final Fantasy for no/too many hours doesn't change knowing between what's acceptable in a media product.
 

Jintor

Member
Just signed a month-to-month contract with Optus. It's the BYO phone $25 plan. Reception is not a problem, but of course that depends on the area.

I only have 200MB of data, which is pretty bad, so I can eventually see myself switching over to Vodafone which offer much better value. Their reception was once sketchy, but apparently it's improved in recent years.

Regarding phones, I bought a Nexus 4 a bit over a month ago for ~$400, loving it so far. Performance is top notch and since it's a Google phone, it's guaranteed to be well supported and receive the latest Android updates on time. Decent battery life as well. It's a mid to high-range phone with a budget price, so it's definitely worth checking out or waiting for the inevitable revision.

Thanks for the rec, that's about my price range tbh
 

r1chard

Member
It's official: the Optus form for Change of Ownership of an Internet account ... doesn't.

In fact it should be named Mangle Your Internet Account So You Will Just Want To Shut It Down And Make It Go Away. But that's kinda long, so I can see why they went with the shorter, though less accurate, one.

I have a feeling that the only way to undo the mess Optus has created is to close both affected accounts (the original service holder and the recipient holder). Too bad my mobile is attached to the original account, I'll have to move that to a more competent telco as well.

Shit, there aren't any, are there...
 
Nexus 4 is a fantastic phone for the money. About the biggest flaw is no 4G (and no changeable battery or expandable storage). There surely must be a refresh around the corner that'll be virtually the same as with the Nexus 7. Maybe it'll have some sort of Chrome Cast thing built in.

It's official: the Optus form for Change of Ownership of an Internet account ... doesn't.
Bitch about it on Twitter, making sure to include the official Optus account, then contact the social media team and they'll fix it up properly and quickly... If it's possible to do so within their system.
 

yepyepyep

Member
Has anybody else been seeing films at the Melbourne Film Festival? I have seen these so far.

Le Joli Mai- 10/10
V/H/S 2- 5/10
Like Father, Like Son- 8/10
These Birds Walk- 8/10

Pretty good so far. I really wanted to see The Past but it is already sold out, grr. But I think they release a few tickets during the day.
 
How is negative gearing not bad rep?
There's nothing inherently wrong with Negative Gearing. The problem is that is serves a function that no longer exists.

The issue that the government faces, like with many of these things, is when and how to stop it. If they ever would or plan to, that is.
 

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
Has anybody else been seeing films at the Melbourne Film Festival? I have seen these so far.

Le Joli Mai- 10/10
V/H/S 2- 5/10
Like Father, Like Son- 8/10
These Birds Walk- 8/10

Pretty good so far. I really wanted to see The Past but it is already sold out, grr. But I think they release a few tickets during the day.

Saw The Congress and Mood Indigo already. Both were genuinely great and visually awe-inspiring. Hoping to pick up tickets for The Past.. apparently they are going sell some more tickets the night before it screens.. so hanging out for that, and that will probably be it for me in the festival. Simply don't have time to see anything else.;p I'm going make up for it by doing a double-feature of Frances Ha/Before Midnight sometime in the middle of August though.:)
 

yepyepyep

Member
Saw The Congress and Mood Indigo already. Both were genuinely great and visually awe-inspiring. Hoping to pick up tickets for The Past.. apparently they are going sell some more tickets the night before it screens.. so hanging out for that, and that will probably be it for me in the festival. Simply don't have time to see anything else.;p I'm going make up for it by doing a double-feature of Frances Ha/Before Midnight sometime in the middle of August though.:)

I plan on seeing the second screening of The Congress so that is good news! I should probably get around to seeing Waltz with Bashir sometime.
 
What part of their "education" are they missing? What does whether or not they have played a game before have to do with their ability to judge the inappropriateness of its themes or mechanics? Having played lots of games in my life, am I suddenly okay with performing objectionable acts? Is this the education that they've missed out on?

Should the people classifying books has a certain number of years reading under their belt before they're given the role? Should they ready a certain number of books per year to qualify? Do they need to have read certain books before they become "appreciative," "knowing," and educated enough before they can imagine that [insert objectionable item here] is acceptable for the public?

In closing, how many games do I need to have played before I can decide on whether anal rape is an acceptable game mechanic? Or at least appreciate it.
Fucking 17 we have been over this before. A dozen could be luck but 17 shows it is highly unlikely, at least one trillion in a billion, that they confused 17 games for movies or those old timey wind-the-wheel-to-make-magic-goblins-create-pictures things.

If you haven't played the current crop of games how can you gauge the effects of them on the common man? The common man isn't hooked up like a lab rate for you to peruse flow charts and pie charts! No one used pie charts anywhere enough any more! Think of how much more relaxed your board room meeting would be if you could say "pie chart" 3 or 4 times within a minute or so!


What's the topic? Game? I'm pretty sure they know what it is and having played Mario, Sonic, CoD and Final Fantasy for no/too many hours doesn't change knowing between what's acceptable in a media product.
The issue is what is acceptable for consumer consumption at that rating and the effect on society due to including it in aforementioned society.

What is the effect of allowing the consumption of parody and over-the-top humour? Does it lead to a more than acceptable amount of 18 and/or + year old people thinking drugs anal rape only have fun consequences?

This is all a fucking front for suppressing Communist thoughts. These big wigs in their fancy establishments want to keep the common man down and not thinking. And I tells you I am sick to death of being told I'm nots allowed to think!

How is negative gearing not bad rep?
Explain. Two negatives make a right. I learned that in school. Don't try to confused me.
 
WHAT? They banned SRIV AGAIN? Fuck me.....

In other news:

http://delimiter.com.au/2013/07/29/drastic-govt-measures-needed-it-price-hike-pulls-no-punches/

In alot of ways, this is a concession of defeat on the part of the committee. They know they can’t get the political advantage to implement these laws and even if they did, it would only end in Legal Warfare. They’re basically saying “we know these guys are screwing you, but because lobby groups and their wallets have all the power, we can’t act; but what we can do is teach you how to do this yourselves”.

That last part won’t earn the Government any friends inside these multinationals, but at least they’re sticking the boot in and acknowledging there is a big problem. The ultimate reality is however, that theese corporations have way too much power over our politics, and one day, it’s going to get ugly.

TL;DR to all the corporations that so blatantly rip off Australians because they know they can get away with it, here’s a big fuck you to send you to bed tonight.
 

legend166

Member
Wait, choc was using an alt to get around a perma-ban? I thought he was just having a fresh start! I didn't even know he was perma-banned!

I wasn't trying to rat him out.
 
WHAT? They banned SRIV AGAIN? Fuck me.....

In other news:

http://delimiter.com.au/2013/07/29/drastic-govt-measures-needed-it-price-hike-pulls-no-punches/

In alot of ways, this is a concession of defeat on the part of the committee. They know they can’t get the political advantage to implement these laws and even if they did, it would only end in Legal Warfare. They’re basically saying “we know these guys are screwing you, but because lobby groups and their wallets have all the power, we can’t act; but what we can do is teach you how to do this yourselves”.

That last part won’t earn the Government any friends inside these multinationals, but at least they’re sticking the boot in and acknowledging there is a big problem. The ultimate reality is however, that theese corporations have way too much power over our politics, and one day, it’s going to get ugly.

TL;DR to all the corporations that so blatantly rip off Australians because they know they can get away with it, here’s a big fuck you to send you to bed tonight.

Choc'd :)
 

Bernbaum

Member
Tom Hanks to everyone for the Sleeping Dogs/SRIII advice. Turns out I missed both sales. Lets hope GTAV scratches the open world itch.

-

Re-watching Breaking Bad from the start to ease into the last half of the final season before out airs. Not as layered as later episodes, but it starts off amazing.
 
Fucking 17 we have been over this before. A dozen could be luck but 17 shows it is highly unlikely, at least one trillion in a billion, that they confused 17 games for movies or those old timey wind-the-wheel-to-make-magic-goblins-create-pictures things.

If you haven't played the current crop of games how can you gauge the effects of them on the common man? The common man isn't hooked up like a lab rate for you to peruse flow charts and pie charts! No one used pie charts anywhere enough any more! Think of how much more relaxed your board room meeting would be if you could say "pie chart" 3 or 4 times within a minute or so!
Most of the time the classification board doesn't read/watch/play any of the material submitted to them; they gauge classifications based upon a list of content provided by the distributor. Only when an item has questionable content or there is doubt about the context do they actually view/read/play them.

Getting someone to participate in acts has a strong psychological effect upon some people. It's especially not good if there is reward and positive reinforcement involved, as there are with games. That's not research that the Classification Board has pioneered nor does it change whether they have actually played the game. When they rate games/books/movies they do so by filling in a list of "Points of Note" and letting those dictate in which rating the media falls. Being a casual/competitive/hardcore or non-gamer doesn't change any of those things.

The issue is what is acceptable for consumer consumption at that rating and the effect on society due to including it in aforementioned society.

What is the effect of allowing the consumption of parody and over-the-top humour? Does it lead to a more than acceptable amount of 18 and/or + year old people thinking drugs anal rape only have fun consequences?

This is all a fucking front for suppressing Communist thoughts. These big wigs in their fancy establishments want to keep the common man down and not thinking. And I tells you I am sick to death of being told I'm nots allowed to think!
In the current social climate where drug/alcohol usage is higher and where children/teens/young adults are getting their hands on harder, more powerful drugs is it not prudent to hope that influential media are not sending a message that drug usage is not only attractive and consequence free but also has reward for doing so?

And anal rape? The Killing of Hookers after using their services? Aren't these themes that, considering the nature of the subject matter, we wish to glorify? The more insidious aspect is not that it's rewarding the player but it takes the strips the significance off the subject. This conversation is a very example of the problem. No longer are we talking about the moral issue of rape, but whether or not we should be allowed to because "it's over the top violence and it's funny."

At this point we're also not talking about what purpose or need sexual violence has in a game but whether it suits the tone of the rest of the game. If it fits the tone set by the rest of the game is that just more damning evidence about the relevance of such a product in the market place?

The purpose of the Classification Board is there to ensure that people not mentally capable/mature to process the content of an item are not exposed to it and to refuse the entry to any item that potentially serves to undermine our laws and be a detriment to society.

At this point I think the reason the question is still unanswered of what purpose or benefit does and ultra-violent videogame that rewards a player for drug use and sexual abuse actually serve? Sadly, I don't think parody covers "dildo forcibly inserted into the rectum."

Well, at least that's what my lawyer told me, anyway. And that Judge.
 
Most of the time the classification board doesn't read/watch/play any of the material submitted to them; they gauge classifications based upon a list of content provided by the distributor. Only when an item has questionable content or there is doubt about the context do they actually view/read/play them.
ALRIGHT IMMA PUT DOWN MY SANDWICH
*puts down cuppa soup because I don't have anything in the house to make a sandwich with because the damn supermarkets here now close at 9pm and I couldn't be bothered getting up earlier*
First off that's some grade A bullshit they don't engage the material in dispute. Buts thats another story for another day.

Secondly refer to the first. I enter into defences evident exhibit A, otherwise known as D (not exhibit D, I mean D). So again the defence says, "the fuck?". And rests. And by rests I mean shifty shit happens and we should be on the lookout for it.

Thirdly none of this is relative to Deadly Premonition or whatever game it is we are talking about. I dunno. I just watched the OJ trial so this seems like the correct method for debating. I should read that book sometime.

Getting someone to participate in acts has a strong psychological effect upon some people. It's especially not good if there is reward and positive reinforcement involved, as there are with games. That's not research that the Classification Board has pioneered nor does it change whether they have actually played the game. When they rate games/books/movies they do so by filling in a list of "Points of Note" and letting those dictate in which rating the media falls. Being a casual/competitive/hardcore or non-gamer doesn't change any of those things.
SOME people
SOME SOME SOME
SHOW ME THE REC-SOME-IEPTS

Killing a man in COD lets me walk forward and see bayplosions. That is awesome as fuck and has no negatives attached. And that shit is played straight.

This SR shit is so over the top my hats hat is spinning.

Not only are you THE MOTHERFUCKING PRESIDOG (oh shit, that would have been amazing, where were you on that one Gaz? The batphone was calling and you were too busy trying to remember who was president at THQ that day to pick it up. OH SHIT MAYBE THE WHOLE PRESIDENT THING IS A TONGUE IN CHEECK JAB AT PREVIOUS THQ PRESIDENT DANNY BILSON LIKE, "HEY ANYONE CAN BE PRESIDENT IF THIS GUY CAN BE PRESIDENT!") PRESIDENT OF THE USA but the whole thing exists IN THE MOTHERFUCKING MATRIX and everything is OHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT LOOK AT THAT FLYING CAR AND ALIENS AND HENRY KISSINGER HAS HAIR AGAIN. That context has to count in terms of how influential it will be upon the hearts and minds of us common folk down here in the slums, playing our videos rather than eating our whale shit and smelling farts.


In the current social climate where drug/alcohol usage is higher and where children/teens/young adults are getting their hands on harder, more powerful drugs is it not prudent to hope that influential media are not sending a message that drug usage is not only attractive and consequence free but also has reward for doing so?

And anal rape? The Killing of Hookers after using their services? Aren't these themes that, considering the nature of the subject matter, we wish to glorify? The more insidious aspect is not that it's rewarding the player but it takes the strips the significance off the subject. This conversation is a very example of the problem. No longer are we talking about the moral issue of rape, but whether or not we should be allowed to because "it's over the top violence and it's funny."
But the kids have more dope sweet gnarly dude drugs than the lame shit in SR4! This game could have a strong negating effect on drug culture! Kids probably will stop rubbing those crack rocks into their pee holes and realise drugs are what their parents did in the 60's and realise that it ain't cool to be like the old man or lady! Not releasing this game in its current state IS GOING TO FUCKING KILL THAT KID SITTING NEXT TO YOU ON THE TRAIN OR BUS OR SKATEBOARD THATS JITTERY AND SHAKY LOOKING FOR HIS NEXT DUST OFF.

Also rape is a serious thing that needs to be discussed seriously.
Pretty sure SR4 had probing not raping. Worlds apart. It's an alien thing. You monkeys never got into that kind of thing, too smelly.

At this point we're also not talking about what purpose or need sexual violence has in a game but whether it suits the tone of the rest of the game. If it fits the tone set by the rest of the game is that just more damning evidence about the relevance of such a product in the market place?
So removing only the probe and changing the name of the drugs shouldn't lead to the game passing? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING? I DONT THINK THE MONEY ABSORBING CLASSIFICATION OLD PEOPLES AGREE WITH THAT MR PLANET. YOUR TONE OF VOICE AND THE TONE OF THIS GAME ARE OF EQUAL STANDING TO MR WHOEVERS-OUR-BENJAMIN-FRANKLIN.

The purpose of the Classification Board is there to ensure that people not mentally capable/mature to process the content of an item are not exposed to it and to refuse the entry to any item that potentially serves to undermine our laws and be a detriment to society.
Put a sticker on it then!

Warning: This game is not to be consumed by old people, kids, stupid people and people with a habit of stroking their guns while cackling. Also everyone who took drugs in this game DIED. So yeah, keep that in mind.

Job done!

At this point I think the reason the question is still unanswered of what purpose or benefit does and ultra-violent videogame that rewards a player for drug use and sexual abuse actually serve? Sadly, I don't think parody covers "dildo forcibly inserted into the rectum."
Secondly of all parody covers everything! You name a song out there and I bet you can find a parody cover.

I thought aliens were all about anal probing! I learned that from The Simpsons! It has to be true!
Also secondly does that mean this discussion is banned from consumption? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ANAL PROBING RIGHT MEOW. I LIVE IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE BUT THE ADFA COULD BE AT YOUR DOOR RIGHT MEOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

I leave you with exhibit B. Mr Baby Bison. For today is Monday for him. Just Monday.
BQVhr5WCIAAXoDh.jpg
 

Fredescu

Member
Do tell, enlighten me.

The Howard government was a big taxer and a big spender. There hasn't been a "saving" coalition Government in over 30 years. The only governments to cut total spending in that period have been Labor governments.

Not that I think one is much better than the other, but it just shows you the ridiculousness of party politics that most people vote for the parties for the opposite of what they end up doing.
 

Shaneus

Member
IxE2Vw1.png

Firstly, I WAS AT MY FUCKING DESK WHEN YOU TRIED DELIVERING, YOU CUNTS.
Secondly, WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T YOU TRY TO CALL? YOU HAVE MY FUCKING MOBILE NUMBER.
Lastly, HOW ABOUT YOU DELIVER AT A TIME WHEN BUSINESSES ARE ACTUALLY FUCKING OPEN?!?

Jesus christ, that shit infuriates me.
 

Agyar

Member
I don't normally get involved in politics on the web but where do you think the surplus came from for labour to spend up big during the GFC? That's right Liberal savings.

Voting in this country is so predictable; Liberals voted in to put country out of red back into black, the moment things get back on track Labour is voted in to spend the money. Rinse then repeat for eternity. When can we vote in and keep in power the party that actually keeps the country in the black?

Further in recent handouts, if the latest one is successful, equates to over $500Mil in govt. handouts for Holden. Just in recent times. Personally as a private company owner and literally dealing with hundreds of small/medium business owners each year (web dev) I know where I'd rather the govt spent half a billion. Directly into Aussie small businesses, imagine $1mil handouts for 200 businesses instead of the latest $200mil handout to Holden...which one would promote more jobs? What if one of those 200 investments turned into the next Twitter? You get the idea. How long must our govt. payout to private industries that fail? We're now a services nation, let us act like one.

$500Mil could create our Silicon Valley or a games industry destination for developers or you know actually put the NBN on track into our businesses and homes.

The surplus inherited from Howard wasn't the result of fiscal rigour but from the economy going nuts pre-GFC. Costello's biggest challenge was figuring out who to shovel money at. If Labour spent at the same rate the Libs did at the end of their term, government debt would be something like 50% bigger than it is now.

Also lets not forget that a bunch of that money was shovelled at the auto industry. About 5.5 billion over ten years. I'm not in favour of propping up the auto industry but let's not pretend that this is policy exclusive to Labor.

But sure, let's pretend $200m would somehow make a difference to the NBN that costs hundreds of times that much and doesn't even form a part of the budget to argue for voting the Libs in.

PS hi choc bye choc.
 

markot

Banned
Whyd you jerks have to ban choc again?

Triple Hitler much?

Choc is the best thing to happen to this board.

But you guys just dont appreciate him.

He is like David Bowie, and you are all old fuddy duddies lamenting modernity and his style.
 
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