-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
AusPoliGaf |Early 2016 Election| - the government's term has been... Shortened
- Thread starter Bernbaum
- Start date
- Status
The trick is we're all trolls.
Elaugaufein
Member
If it's just parties you want to rank you can do that above the line now. You only need to BTL if you want to preference an ungrouped candidate or don't like the parties selection order.
Never thought it was a particularly deep philosophy tbqh. dunno what all the rage is
Call people Marxists disparagingly, then claims to be a leftist establishmentarianist?
Elaugaufein
Member
There's plenty of center leftists on GAF who have nothing but burning hatred for the useless "ideologically pure". (Compromise= Good )
Of course a non-zero number of them feel that any one on the centre right embraces all values of the far right by voting with them and shouldn't do that. (Compromise = Bad)
So their actual position appears to be that everyone should have their politics. Which seems impressively ideologocally pure to me.
There are a few particular candidates I want to vote around.
What alcohol content will the icing have?
You can recognise income inequality as a problem whilst also not wanting to form a vanguard. You can understand unions are valuable while at the same time thinking they're flawed and not the main driver in working standards from workers. I don't think that all history is a class struggle, nor that we should seize the means of production. You can be pro-capitalism while wanting to enact change for the benefit of the worker within the framework of a capitalist economy. There's a broad spectrum, and I'm not a fan of the bits extremists of any calibre inhabit. It's just that you run into way more Marxists than Austrians or anarcho-libertarians on the internet.
Honestly I'm basically just a younger, better looking but not nearly as witty Paul Keating. And I'd call him left of centre.
I've had some bad conversations on the Australia sub on Reddit. And the voting system amplifies awful opinions if they appeal to the majority.
Figured it was time to actually research all the minor parties on WA's Senate paper. It's... It's an experience. The Citizens Electoral Council is my favourite so far. One of their policy initiatives is to address the global food crisis. Another is to finally shatter the illusion that is the climate change hoax. Granted, once I saw the climate change bit, I didn't read further into their position on the global food crisis, so it may not be as incongruous as it seems. I guess food supply crises and climate change don't have to go hand-in-hand, but they tend to anyway.
And I'm not trying to be biased, but there does seem to be a pattern with regards to minors that have "Australia" somewhere in the name.
I wasn't considering it, but now that you've mentioned it, I might. I think there's a minute amount of Kahlúa in a cupboard somewhere...
And I'm not trying to be biased, but there does seem to be a pattern with regards to minors that have "Australia" somewhere in the name.
I wasn't considering it, but now that you've mentioned it, I might. I think there's a minute amount of Kahlúa in a cupboard somewhere...
Elaugaufein
Member
I just did my postal vote today. I originally planned to vote below the line (Tasmania only had... 25-26 columns?) but I had chemo this morning and then by the time I got home, I was too exhausted to bother. Voted for the parties I wanted in the senate, had a race to the bottom of 4/6 of the House of Reps, and then curled up in bed.
I got a little mad at some local radio presenter on the way to chemo, who had the AEC there to answer questions about "Can I vote for a lower number of parties/candidates in the Senate than the 6/12 you're making us do?" and I dunno, the question kind of annoyed me. I couldn't really pick my finger on why, though. I guess with so many parties on a senate ticket with a broad range of beliefs, even here in assbackward Tasmania, I didn't have trouble finding 6 that I agreed with the beliefs with in some way or another. But maybe I'm just odd
I got a little mad at some local radio presenter on the way to chemo, who had the AEC there to answer questions about "Can I vote for a lower number of parties/candidates in the Senate than the 6/12 you're making us do?" and I dunno, the question kind of annoyed me. I couldn't really pick my finger on why, though. I guess with so many parties on a senate ticket with a broad range of beliefs, even here in assbackward Tasmania, I didn't have trouble finding 6 that I agreed with the beliefs with in some way or another. But maybe I'm just odd
There were lots of Aussies at Australian High Commission here in London voting this morning. I voted today! I suppose voting isn't the worst way to spend your 29th birthday.
I'll be on the plane heading back to Australia for the hours that the election results will come in. This is the second Federal Election I've been away from home on. I've only been to the UK once before when I was really young. It's such a lovely place (despite what you're hearing at the moment). Over the last few weeks I've gotten to go around to a number of cities and talk to locals, while not directly campaigning I've been very grateful to come here to help with the referendum campaign to leave.
I started butting heads with everyone here once I got back to Australia after the last federal election, I can't believe it's been three years. Most of us are still around, although there have been a few people who have left along the way. I just want to say that whatever happens it's been an absolute pleasure arguing with you all. (Despite the fact that I don't think I've postulated or argued at all in this thread, but given what I've read of the actual election, neither has anyone else) I hope I haven't given you all too many aneurysms.
I'll be on the plane heading back to Australia for the hours that the election results will come in. This is the second Federal Election I've been away from home on. I've only been to the UK once before when I was really young. It's such a lovely place (despite what you're hearing at the moment). Over the last few weeks I've gotten to go around to a number of cities and talk to locals, while not directly campaigning I've been very grateful to come here to help with the referendum campaign to leave.
I started butting heads with everyone here once I got back to Australia after the last federal election, I can't believe it's been three years. Most of us are still around, although there have been a few people who have left along the way. I just want to say that whatever happens it's been an absolute pleasure arguing with you all. (Despite the fact that I don't think I've postulated or argued at all in this thread, but given what I've read of the actual election, neither has anyone else) I hope I haven't given you all too many aneurysms.
bobnowhere
Member
I'm struggling to plan out how to vote in the ACT, so many nutter parties in the senate. Having to go 1-6 above the line is Hard.
Green->Labor->Secular and then the 3 least crazy nutters.
Green->Labor->Secular and then the 3 least crazy nutters.
- Animal Justice Party, probably the least objectionable but still way out there.
- Sex Party: Anti-authoritarian socially, but economically a basket case.
- Cristian Democrat Party - Lol Fred Nile just die already. Ok that's maybe a little unkind but go away!
- Lib Dems: Don't want to encourage these loonies.
- Rise Up: Massive racists.
- #Sustainable: A hashtag really? Hidden racists, even worse than the Catch a Fire nonsense.
- A Couple of unattached nutters.
Candescence
Member
Here's something that actually matters a bit more for us: the Greens want to invest at least $158 million into Australia's gaming industry. Considering the AAA industry here is all but dead and there's only some indies and mobile devs, the industry does need some serious CPR. Part of this is reversing cuts made back in 2014, but reversing a lot of cuts made in that budget would be a good idea anyway.
I remember the radio AEC guy saying that if above the line, even if you only voted for one party, if there was nothing else disqualifying the vote, then it would still be counted. It was because of another provision they brought into law with the changes, it sounded like a law to give people a bit of leeway with the new rules vs the old ones (Just marking one party)
If you voted below the line, you have to vote a minimum of 6 for it still to count under the same provision ss above. But the AEC guy wasn't too enthused about the whole idea of giving people new minimums below the ones the AEC has been trying to get to us
EDIT: Antony Green went into more detail on the ABC
"To avoid increasing informal voting, a generous 'savings' provision has been included in the act. Any ballot paper with a valid first preference above the line will be 'saved' from being informal. Such a vote will count for the candidates of the chosen party, but will have no preferences for any other candidate or party on the ballot paper. A ballot with a valid first preference will be valid for every further preference completed, so a 1,2 is also formal, a 1,2,3 is formal, as is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and so on."
http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2016/06/how-should-you-vote-in-the-senate.html
Elaugaufein
Member
This is a bad idea though. Even of you're a major party voter (you miss out on expressing a preference on overflow after 3-4 candidates are immediately selected by quota). If you're a minor party voter its just dumb (theres a good chance you'll get no expression at all before it exhaust). Its not like the lower house where a major can win sinply by everyone else Exhausting.
Ideally you should keep expressing preferences until you find the remaining parties equally objectionable. If you're a micro party voter you should definitely preference a major (which means pretending any micros you'd prefer first).
You see, the river is capitalism, and
Same, even though they always seem to end in "well my real beliefs aren't actually as extreme as my initial statement." Happy birthday!
Bravo.
Oh no, I agree entirely. This was, I think, one of the things that annoyed me about the radio guy pushing these details of of the AEC staff member, and then for the rest of the time after I was in the car, he was mentioning the minimums from this provision as the minimums, not the 6/12.
It could just be my medication making me irrationally grumpy though XD
Well according to the vote compass, Labor matches up pretty closely with my ideals. I see myself as being left of center but not hard-left like the Greens.
There's also the fact my electorate is Hindmarsh, the most marginal seat in SA. I don't want to see the Liberals win here.
If you are in a marginal seat, a preference for party A that is higher than party B will always count towards party A on 2PP no matter how far down the ballot they appear.
In the way the physical ballot papers are counted, at the booth, on election night, there is little difference between putting ALP 2nd, Libs 3rd than placing ALP 9th, Libs 10th. That said, it looks like you will be putting ALP first anyway.
This is outlined here: http://www.aec.gov.au/voting/counting/
The key sentence is here:
What isn't made explicit is that every booth in a given electorate has a sealed envelope which contains the names of the two most likely candidates on the ballot. After first preferences are counted, any ballot that did not place a '1' next to one of the names in the envelope will be awarded to either of the two names, depending on which of the two names is given the highest preference. Every other preference on the ballot is irrelevant and not documented - only first preferences are.
This is the beauty of the Australian electoral system: You can vote with your conscience yet avoid 'throwing your vote away'.
Say you're a hardcore Christian and Leviticus 18:22 is really important to you. You can vote consistent with your belief system that treats one group of people differently to everyone else by putting Family First or Fred Nile Group first, whilst putting more 'strategically subtle' homophobes like the Coalition second. Congratulations, you are now represented.
Mr. Pointy
Member
No more Micallef this year?
D.Lo
Member
Should be two more at least.
Elaugaufein
Member
I wonder what they do in the situation where it's clear from counting (or one of the top two names getting caught having intercourse with a farm animal) that names in the envelope are wrong.
There is a protocol for when this happens and it's much more complicated.
As I understand it, they actually stick to the method we were taught in school. The candidate with the least 1st preferences is eliminated, then 2nd preferences are counted, the lowest tally eliminated and then so on. It wasn't until I worked for the Electoral Commision when I learned they don't have time to do it 'the proper way'.
There are also protocols for when the 'third' candidate has a primary vote tally close to that of one of the names in the envelope.
Elaugaufein
Member
That actually explains a lot about why surprise results take so much longer to come in than normal seats. Must be a bitch in seats like Batman too, where any of 3 parties could win depending on preferences.
bobnowhere
Member
There are only 2 senators in the ACT so voting 1-6 above and 1-12 below is far more information than is required for the AEC. Labor will get an automatic quota, the libs will go close might/might not and will then fall across the line on the first preference count with nutter preferences. The Greens are still in with a shot but will need to probably go from 20% primary to high 20s for a shot.
Anyway shall we have a sweep of sorts?
Question: How many Seats will the Coalition win in the House of Reps? (Will count WA Nats in total) 79
Tie-breaker: At what time Saturday night will Chris Pyne begin looking smug? (AEST) 6.50pm
Prize? Glorious self satisfaction.
(Mine in bold)
Elaugaufein
Member
How do we define when Christopher Pyne starts not looking smug so we know when to begin ?
Also you might need to split this in two: When he starts looking smug if NXT is clearly fended of from his seat or if it's close.
Mr. Pointy
Member
That last ep felt like a season finale with the song and dance number and amped up craziness.
Will we get the Zingerman running the country, or will the Smooth Operator stay in power?
D.Lo
Member
Yes it did play like a Micallef season-ender.
Oh man I've been watching his shows for 20 years...
Ruthless_Barbarian
Member
Last elections there was a site where you could see your candidates and mark them in the order you would like to vote, save it and take that as a reference to the actual vote so you don't mess up. It was super helpful especially for those voting below the line. Is there something like that this year?
Elaugaufein
Member
From what I heard they couldn't recode it for the new Senate rules in time.
https://belowtheline.org.au
Elaugaufein
Member
That is a huge swing since the last poll. Wth happened ? I live here and I've seen / heard nothing that would explain a swing of that size.
ETA - Ahh. Brexit fear and Turkey bombing probably.
ETA2 - Brandis on radio answering question about if concerned about rise of anti immigrant sentiment with not to vote for Labor / Green / ALP chaos. Because the support base of the Greens and Australian Liberty Alliance / One Nation / Rise Up Australia have so much overlap.
ETA - Ahh. Brexit fear and Turkey bombing probably.
ETA2 - Brandis on radio answering question about if concerned about rise of anti immigrant sentiment with not to vote for Labor / Green / ALP chaos. Because the support base of the Greens and Australian Liberty Alliance / One Nation / Rise Up Australia have so much overlap.
And because the Liberal-National Party is completely immune to internal party fractures.
Elaugaufein
Member
Its even better when you realize it's the Nationals who have historically had immense overlap with One Nation. So Liberal / National / LNP / Country Liberal / Independent Chaos.
Elaugaufein
Member
And I wouldnt have blinked at that. But +6 is a huge swing during the frequent polls of a campaign.
Fair enough. I think it's a bit of an outlier tbh, I don't see even Brexit having this large of an impact.
- Status