The union movement is the entire reason the left is a political force anywhere and it's always had issues with sexism and racism. The notion that these things are strictly issues of the right is pretty ignorant.
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AusPoliGaf |Early 2016 Election| - the government's term has been... Shortened
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The union movement is the entire reason the left is a political force anywhere and it's always had issues with sexism and racism. The notion that these things are strictly issues of the right is pretty ignorant.
chicko1983
Member
I saw that on the cover of the advertiser and it's done enough to convince me.
Elaugaufein
Member
Unless you were going to or that would result in you voting for ALA/Rise Up/One Nation/CEC/Health Party/Family First/ACL in which case please do vote Liberal.
Aarglefarg
Member
Now I sit and wait for Antony Green tonight and then a whole lot of shit in the months to come.
Reading the last page of this thread and feeling the almost certainty that we're due another 3 years of the current Liberal government has made me so fucking sad I don't even know what to say.
What the fuck has happened to our country over the last half decade
Granted the swing towards this hard line right wing stuff is happening in a global scale (Trump, Brexit, Tories) but I didn't think it'd be so decisive here in Australia, especially after the awful last few years.
What the fuck has happened to our country over the last half decade
Granted the swing towards this hard line right wing stuff is happening in a global scale (Trump, Brexit, Tories) but I didn't think it'd be so decisive here in Australia, especially after the awful last few years.Elaugaufein
Member
Reading the last page of this thread and feeling the almost certainty that we're due another 3 years of the current Liberal government has made me so fucking sad I don't even know what to say.
What the fuck has happened to our country over the last half decade
It's not really hard line right here (unless we get some kind of awful result where it turns out One Nation is the new Government or something similar). Turnbull is a moderate and the fact he knifed Abbott relatively recently is giving cover to some of Abbott's more boneheaded decisions as well as covering for the hard right of his party. Also Shorten is obviously not a natural leader, he's improved leaps and bounds over this campaign but that's only offset Turnbull's natural lead rather than pulled him ahead.
(Also Murdoch's dark shadow still falls over this land)
Honestly the worst case outcome is probably that Turnbull gets returned but that he ends up with the weaker faction and basically gets to be an erudite and suave puppet for his party's right wing. That'll get us another 3 years of Abbott but with a charming veneer , which may well get re-elected down the track.
Which end of the Left is historically known for sexism and racism? I could accept that in an environment of extreme socialism mixed with feral nationalism that would result.
In a modern environment though, where even Socialist Alliance at least seem outwardly to have policies built on equality, I struggle to see how a left leaning person could arrive at anything other than a position resembling a humanist one.
Where does it go wrong?
It's easy to be progressive in theory until it actually starts threatening your privileged position.
See: American white people's voting habits.
Elaugaufein
Member
For the unions: it's a product of the origin of the Union movement (white, male, and religious (Catholic in Australia, not sure in England). Those groups had fairly defined cultural roles and expectations before the progessive left was even a thing.
For the left generally: It's partially related. The working class left have seen a lot of shafting under globalization and they get to watch their parties chasing around after feminism/sexual equality/racial equality rather than actually doing the thing they were created to do: Help the working class get their share. It breeds resentment.
There's also the all Straight White Males are privileged and should be ignored misuse of intersectionalism by small grounds which creates a similar resentment with both the previous group and progressive Straight White Males and there's a vast social pool of sexism and racism to draw upon to express that resentment. Oh and the ongoing internal war about whether the left should be authoritarian or not which polarizes people and naturally leads to demonization of the opposition.
The rise of the internet and the natural emotional distance (and thus reduction of consideration of emotional impact)) probably doesn't help either.
I think you guys are reading too much into it. I honestly think it has more to do with the divide and conquer nature of modern politics and the fact that a minority of the left feel they have to 'rise' to the level of the right to 'win the battle'. Combine that with the nature of the internet and they become real pieces of shit.
Elaugaufein
Member
Possible Victories: Top Right to Lower Left Diagonal. 3rd Vertical Column. 5th Vertical Column, 1st Horizontal Row, 4th Horizontal Row, 5th Horizontal Row, 6th Horizontal Row. And Hung Parliament's Automatic win.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...es-progressive-but-is-he-really-a-brogressive
They're on the left in theory but only insofar as it delivers for them. The moment it starts talking about issues that challenge their privileged position any pretence of progressiveness jumps out the window.
See: Much of the left that voted for Sanders, or much of the younger Australian voting populace. They're people that go on and on about how bad the internet in Australia is and how we need the NBN but will cry from the rooftops that the gender wage gap is a myth or that Adam Goodes really deserved his booing.
There's some truth in this but it really simplifies the issue of Labor's right wing trend.
Elaugaufein is correct in that the unions play a big part in this trend as the SDA/HSU/AWU have always been conservative and honestly a blight on the union movement if I'm concerned. The SDA is both the largest union in Australia from memory and a bastion for Catholicism (openly against abortion, same sex marriage, IVF) for instance.
As far as federal Labor goes, they're definitely influenced heavily by these unions. Which is problematic for Labor I guess because it pushes more progressive unions (and members), such as the NTEU, towards the Greens.
You've had some good answers to this, but I'd say simply that the battles between left and right have traditionally been battles between workers and owners. Therefore this battle tends not to consider those who don't even have the privilege to be a worker.
Elaugaufein
Member
MRAs are usually right wing (alt-right even).
RelaxedOtter
Member
Voted, all went quickly. No sign of sausages in the area, sad.
I hold no hope that that twat Chris Pyne will get voted out, however.
I hold no hope that that twat Chris Pyne will get voted out, however.
you gotta remember that "left leaning" now means "right leaning but more libertarian than authoritarian".
its why between the major parties theres gonna be an overlap in venn diagram dickheadness. and ultimately that these elections wont really make much a difference either way.
whyamihere
Banned
you gotta remember that "left leaning" now means "right leaning but more libertarian than authoritarian".
its why between the major parties theres gonna be an overlap in venn diagram dickheadness. and ultimately that these elections wont really make much a difference either way.
I too like to throw darts on a map.
PhantomZone
Member
Looking forward to the LNP steamroll to victory tonight
Looking forward to the LNP steamroll to victory tonight
Why do you hate Australia
I was wondering that my self. It would seem to go against the accepted wisdom of "the left falls in love, the right falls in line". I guess racists are just really passionate about their racism!
Well the right probably describes all those "progressive parties" as lunatic lefties.
Rundle touched on this in recent piece on the Australian Liberty Alliance
Guy Rundle said:
PhantomZone
Member
Been a LNP supporter (non member mind you but have embraced all that they've stood for ) over the last 20 years since I took an interest in politics in high school.
A Labor government is horrible government. And there is no way I'd ever want Bill Shorten as the PM of Australia. Much in the same way people vomited when Abbott became PM.
bobnowhere
Member
Had to put LDP 6th!
If was between them, CDP, Rise Up, Sustainable and Zed Seselja. At least the LDP is entertaining in the way that they might start a fight in the senate or something.
If was between them, CDP, Rise Up, Sustainable and Zed Seselja. At least the LDP is entertaining in the way that they might start a fight in the senate or something.
jizzlobber
Member
People treat politics like a sport, they have a team and will stick with them no matter how shit they are.
Our team is Australia however, and we need to pick the best captain.
I don't like the 2 party system, both are incompetent, both are full of shit... But this time my vote goes to labour, easily.
Our vote should go deeper imo, for example we need to decide who the best treasurer is... One who actually is an expert on the field of finance, budgeting etc
The person who balances our books is never fit for the job.
Our team is Australia however, and we need to pick the best captain.
I don't like the 2 party system, both are incompetent, both are full of shit... But this time my vote goes to labour, easily.
Our vote should go deeper imo, for example we need to decide who the best treasurer is... One who actually is an expert on the field of finance, budgeting etc
The person who balances our books is never fit for the job.
Elaugaufein
Member
I imagine the practical reason is the Greens hoover up most of the resources and votes and run pretty much all the issues.
There's some interesting divisions between some of the small parties on the right who eat Coalition vote share. Katter would rather join the ALP than one of the Libertarian parties. For some reason the Left small parties haven't fractured along that line (yet). I imagine Duerry's Senate roulette technique encouraged them too since the more micros channeling preferences around the more likely someone snowballs.
You've embraced all they've stood for? Well I now know what to think of you. Thanks.
That was sarcasm
. I didn't vote LNP but they were high up my preference list. I'm an unashamed fan of Turnbull as our PM, he's near identical to me ideologically. There's much on the right that I don't enjoy in the LNP, but then again there's much of the ALP that I don't enjoy either. Same with the Greens.
30yearsofhurt
Member
Have you been hibernating for the last three years of the LNP shitshow?
Hypothetical (for anyone really)
If your preferred party could not form government, which politician from the other parties would you like to see as PM? Doesnt have to be an ALP or LNP member.
As someone who is probably going to vote Green today, my preferred PM out of the two would be Shorten but otherwise I wouldn't mind seeing any of the following: Albanese, Wong, Xenephon, Susan Ley or Marise Payne.
From the LNP I think Payne is probably one of the most level headed and least incendiary speakers and probably should stay in defence if the gov't is re-elected.
Ive said it multiple times but the LNP shitshow has been going for over a decade. The tantrum they threw over Rudd's Copenhagen plan and the 2010 election result showed their true colours.
Children overboard. Silence on on-water activities. Self immolation. Prosecution for whistleblowers. Work Choices. Climate Change denial. Hawthorn supporter.
Hey mate, you could have voted for the greens. their finance minister is a economics university lecturer and former vice president of deutsche bank in hong kong.
chicko1983
Member
Sadly there isn't anyone who I think is a clear good option as PM that comes to mind, from anyone currently in politics.
They are all very much equal in their pros and cons.
Well true. They aren't exactly standouts ill give you that.
bobnowhere
Member
Abbott->Turnbull wasn't chaos, it was a orderly transition of power long organised. Chaos is something that only happens to the other side.
Not so sure about Ley but Payne is a good call. Warren Entsh maybe? Russel Broadbent? Alan Tudge? Sharman Stone but I think she is retiring .
bananabread
Member
There were a distressing number of 'hard right nutjob' sounding parties on the senate ballot this year
Their economic plans are also terrible for long-term prospects. Outside a carbon tax their policies are a marked degradation of the status quo.
That's partly the motivation but in her own right she is a very well spoken and reasoned person. In the same way Payne is I guess.
Since PM Ludlam isn't happening anytime soon, alas.
Brutalitops
Banned
Voted Liberal for the first time in a long time, the local Liberal member is super awesome here.
terrible for the status quo. i agree.
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