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AusPoliGaf |Early 2016 Election| - the government's term has been... Shortened
- Thread starter Bernbaum
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D.Lo
Member
Yeah I'm guessing just like with Labor and Liberal most people don't know the name of their local member. They vote for the head of the party. Pauline is out there saying ban hijabs, so they're voting for her, just like how people voted for Kevin07. The insanity of ON members has been pretty small news, you have to follow politics to know about it.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
People are so inclined to respond to feels that you have to train them from childhood to respond to reals. Remember, reason is unnatural, otherwise nobody would ever need an education. It's why millions of people will vote their whole lives for parties without having the foggiest idea of their underlying principles, the reasons the party even exists. Our brains aren't designed for thinking through mathematics, philosophy or ethics, they're designed to allow us and our families to survive in a hostile world just long enough to pop out two surviving breeding descendants.
Pauline Hanson appeals to that part of us that really just hates everything that we didn't experience in childhood. It's such a strong feeling it can overwhelm everything else, including the myths regarding fairness we all imbibed with our mother's milk. It doesn't matter that their policies defy common sense! The fact of the matter is that common sense usually isn't common or sensible.
You can cure these ills with education eventually, but it's the work of generations.
Pauline Hanson appeals to that part of us that really just hates everything that we didn't experience in childhood. It's such a strong feeling it can overwhelm everything else, including the myths regarding fairness we all imbibed with our mother's milk. It doesn't matter that their policies defy common sense! The fact of the matter is that common sense usually isn't common or sensible.
You can cure these ills with education eventually, but it's the work of generations.
TheWasTheJoke
Member
Actually I think a lot to how many on the right don't actually care about politics insofar as a venting point for the bigoted diatribes in contrast with your average leftie voter who cares more about policy than party (or you would hope)
Also on Dutton
A relative of mine works for the WA government in a senior position and he told me how for a while last year there were a plethora of requests from unnamed bighshots in his department to do this and that without the signature of the minister (who had recently resigned and had yet not been replaced). My relativehad to play the pedantic lawyer and ask for the signature of a minister or a premier after which the letters stopped coming.
Maybe something in that generl strand with the unapproved Dutton funding
Also on Dutton
A relative of mine works for the WA government in a senior position and he told me how for a while last year there were a plethora of requests from unnamed bighshots in his department to do this and that without the signature of the minister (who had recently resigned and had yet not been replaced). My relativehad to play the pedantic lawyer and ask for the signature of a minister or a premier after which the letters stopped coming.
Maybe something in that generl strand with the unapproved Dutton funding
Elaugaufein
Member
Somehow I see Dutton coming through this unscathed. He'd pretty much have to be found to be imprisoning Border Force staff in off-shore processing centres to get the bootnas far as I can tell.
Aarglefarg
Member
Mike Baird announced his retirement from politics. There will be a spill next week.
http://www.afr.com/news/politics/nsw-premier-mike-baird-retires-from-politics-20170118-gtu8fi
http://www.afr.com/news/politics/nsw-premier-mike-baird-retires-from-politics-20170118-gtu8fi
Am pretty shocked.
bobnowhere
Member
Pretty much all of his political capital had gone. When you've lost right wing radio it might be time even with a completely anonymous Labor leader and still very good 2pp.
Though his Mum and Dad are sick and his sister's, ABC journo Julia Baird, cancer has reportedly returned. More important things.
TheWasTheJoke
Member
Julie Baird and Casino Mike are siblings.. huh never made the connection.
I hope his family are fine and recover swiftly.
He was a terrible Premier who sold our future to his corporate donors. He wasn't terrible ideologically speaking by Liberal standards, yet the whole Barangaroo circus has definitely made me more cynical.
I hope his family are fine and recover swiftly.
He was a terrible Premier who sold our future to his corporate donors. He wasn't terrible ideologically speaking by Liberal standards, yet the whole Barangaroo circus has definitely made me more cynical.
Well I wouldn't completely blame him personally for all that. Its a policy platform that won't change with a new leader. Just like the whole Turnbull debacle thats basically lead to nothing much different than it was under the Mad Monk.
D.Lo
Member
He's the opposite of Abbott in a sense though, he had political capital to burn and spent it on that stuff. He's more like Howard.
Yeah upon hearing his family situation that seems like what gave him the impetus, can't really blame him on that front.
But I'm sure the fact he's had a rough 2016 professionally played into it as well. Doubt he wants to be like Rudd or Abbott and stay on beyond his time and become a symbol of desperation.
bobnowhere
Member
Bronwyn Bishop has worked out the door code at the old folks home again. She's hoping Baird's resignation will end the socialist influence in the Liberal Party, she told Sky.
Sees socialists everywhere.
Sees socialists everywhere.
Elaugaufein
Member
Hang on, what ? Baird's from the economic (ie as far from socialist as you get) wing of the Libs isn't he ? Like kicking a random Nationals member out would contribute more to purging actual* socialist influence.
* As opposed to using socialist to mean social policies that aren't conservative enough for me.
bobnowhere
Member
I imagine everyone to the left of her small north shore cabal of yes-people are socialists. The evil people that interfered with her god-given right to rule/hover over us all.
The Australian said:
Yeah, I have no idea what nonsense she is talking about.
The war in the NSW Liberal Party sure is fun to watch. The born-to-rulers shaking their fists at clouds.
Elaugaufein
Member
Like how many of those north shore people are actually super socially conservative ? Generally once you hit the rich enough to consistently vote Lib suburbs they tend to be increasingly socially liberal as wealth increases. Inner Brisbane for example is literally more likely to elect a Green than One Nation. The exception being the rich retirement suburbs like Hamilton who I don't think have heard that the Cold War ended.
I'd say the exact opposite of what she said. Your philosophy type is more likely to be a socialist than your managerial (whatever she means by that) type.
Elaugaufein
Member
Well yes. Marxism was literally a philosophical proposal not a well researched and structured economic system. But things being manifestly idiotic has never stopped politicians saying them.
bobnowhere
Member
I imagine when she says philosophy, she means her idea of Liberal Party philosophy and I'll bet there is no room for Baird's style of compassionate conservatism under Bronnie's roof. Or any compassion.
some of the stuff she's saying now.. i wonder if she's got a bit of early onset dementia. she'll be 75 this year. my grandma started going a bit nuts around this age. and at first it was her saying increasingly outrageous non PC stuff that we laughed off.
Elaugaufein
Member
Looks like the LNP are going all in on the TPP judging by Turnbull's salvo at Shorten.
But why ? Without the US it's super dead. And talk of China joining is delusional since it was designed to hamper China and China knows it. This is a bizarre thing to go all in on.
But why ? Without the US it's super dead. And talk of China joining is delusional since it was designed to hamper China and China knows it. This is a bizarre thing to go all in on.
We're talking about a government that is doubling, tripling and quadrupling down on the Centrelink stuff despite it being extremely unpopular, broken and unethical. Who knows what their reasoning is for this but I'm certain it's either from a position of maliciousness or stupidity.
Candescence
Member
China won't join TPP because it already has the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) in the works (which we're also a part of), which in many ways is even worse than the TPP. But even that agreement is stalling because Japan and South Korea are at odds with India over generic drugs, amongst other issues.
Edit: Essential polling is 54/46 in favor of Labor.
Edit: Essential polling is 54/46 in favor of Labor.
Elaugaufein
Member
I've setup a discord if anyone is interested https://discord.gg/HYmtp8y .
I've adjusted the permissions so randoms can't do anything likely to be super obnoxious (you should still be able to chat normally, just no TTS / deleting other peoples messages, changing the channel settings, etc) , but drop me a PM and I'll remove most of them.
I've adjusted the permissions so randoms can't do anything likely to be super obnoxious (you should still be able to chat normally, just no TTS / deleting other peoples messages, changing the channel settings, etc) , but drop me a PM and I'll remove most of them.
Bizarre is the right word. Everyone knows Trump killed it, not Shorten. It makes him look unhinged. I doubt many Australians would hold him accountable if he just laid it at Trump's feet.
Japan effectively telling him its dead without the USA compounds how pathetic this all makes him look.
Candescence
Member
So in a moment of hilarious tone-deafness, Barnaby tells people who can't buy their first home to "move to rural areas", nevermind people want homes in city areas because that's where the jobs are. Shame the government isn't, you know, doing anything about the whole issue of skilled jobs being centralised about the CBDs, otherwise that advice might actually be viable. Dumbass.
it's weird to say but trump's absolute batshit insanity isn't really normalising his shit really, but is normalising our homegrown fuckwits a bit for me. exception granted for one nation and the acl, because they'll always be turds.
it also helps that not much is happening right now besides the occasional idiot saying something moronic which gets overwritten by trump basically farting fire out of his mouthhole
it also helps that not much is happening right now besides the occasional idiot saying something moronic which gets overwritten by trump basically farting fire out of his mouthhole
I'd like to see Australia put a 4 year suspension in place for any US-Aus military treaties. Fuck getting dragged into a potential regional conflict with the hot headed orange cunt in command.
I'd be cheering on China anyway (and hoping Australia has absolutely nothing to do with it at all).
Candescence
Member
Honestly, I'd rather hope a war, if it comes to that, results in a mutual regime change. Trump is bad, but China's government is far worse, lest we forget shit like the Great Firewall, Tiananmen Square and the attempted genocide of the Falun Gong spiritual practice.
I dunno about far worse. CIA drug importation and the war on drugs, plutonium experiements on US servicemen, testing STDs in central america, Guantanamo Bay, supporting and arming Iraq vs Iran in the 1980s, the false WMDs precipitating the current Iraq war, enabling the vacuum to be filled with ISIS, the war against Afghanistan's Taliban when the 9/11 bombers were Saudis, the annexation of Diego Garcia, Vietnam and crimes against humanity with the defoliant use, the police state against African Americans, condoning Israeli settlements. I'm sure we can go on.
This does not absolve China, but they tend to keep their mistakes in-house. The US is particularly dangerous, has Imperial designs, and the most powerful nuclear arsenal in the world.
By any sane metric, the US is worse.
So your argument is basically "China manage to hide their failings, whereas American failings are exposed thanks to a free press, so obviously China is better?"
China is already the authoritarian state that people are afraid the US will become. I mean, even ignoring everything else the one child policy and the history of resulting forced abortions is horrific.
Also, I don't see how the US has 'imperial designs' in a traditional sense of the word, especially compared to China who is actively building islands in the South China Sea to make a ridiculous land grab.
For all the faults of America, of which there are many as you've described, I'd take American hegemony over Chinese or Russian.
I don't see how any US crimes can be ignored. China does bad stuff, I don't dispute that. But the US has a history and a recent one at that which includes torture and making people disappear like with the extraordinary rendition.
When you have two evil countries ill prefer the one that contains the evil within its own borders.
And don't tell me you don't believe in imperial us behaviour. China builds islands. US version is installing and funding convenient dictatorships in the ME, central and south America and SE Asia over the better part of a century.
It also stole and forcibly removed people from Diego Garcia. The Chinese are at least sticking to uninhabited islands.
When you have two evil countries ill prefer the one that contains the evil within its own borders.
And don't tell me you don't believe in imperial us behaviour. China builds islands. US version is installing and funding convenient dictatorships in the ME, central and south America and SE Asia over the better part of a century.
It also stole and forcibly removed people from Diego Garcia. The Chinese are at least sticking to uninhabited islands.
Elaugaufein
Member
Thats not 100% true , China has annexed countries on its border that don't really want to be part of China (the Special / Autonomous Regions) before. They just act less globally than America and thats likely only because they don't have the international willingness to turn a blind eye or the sheer economic and military power America does, yet.
TheWasTheJoke
Member
China is an authoritarian police state who systematically ignores the basic rights of its citizens for expediency. They wiped out Tibet by an ethnic colonisation and crush political dissents with force. US and in particular their military has been involved in heinous activity but to compare what is still the worlds pre-eminent liberal democracy to a totalitarian shitshow comes off as tone-deaf
Elaugaufein
Member
If you take pre-eminent as most powerful and liberal democracy separately yes, I'd be willing to argue a lot against the idea that the US system is the best liberal democracy on the planet on any number of fronts.
TheWasTheJoke
Member
The US is still the face of Democracy in the dichotomy of capitalism vs socialism (replace for enemy) that still permeates much of our thinking. Of course it's probably inferior to half of Europe in its structural flaws (ability to gerrymander districts, lack of healthcare, electoral college, terrible racial divide, extremely partisan congress, elected judges, money in politics) so I'll concede on that front. To be honest it was probably more of rhetorical flourish that an actual point,
Elaugaufein
Member
Yes , the US is good at mythmaking and I can never quite work out how much of their bull they actually believe is true. I do think people should be careful of buying it though, for the reasons you listed (and its military / foreign intelligence adventures in electoral interference). But fair enough as a rhetorical flourish.
I mean, I'll just post the Human Rights Watch entry on China: https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016/country-chapters/china-and-tibet
Just the fact that they're not even a democracy should be enough. Do we not even value that any more?
China's extra-territorial abuses aren't as widespread as the US because they haven't been a super power with any sort of power projection for the last 70 years like the US.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
We shouldn't ignore america's extra-territorial abuses though. I don't doubt that china would abuse it if they had the same power as america, but you can't tell me that america is all that much better seeing what they have done to the middle east and south america.
Is installing multiple dictatorships with widespread human rights abuse better than being a contained dictatorship?
Is installing multiple dictatorships with widespread human rights abuse better than being a contained dictatorship?
I'm going to leave it at three points to save making this any more convoluted than it needs to be.
1. I am not absolving China of anything. They are terrible domestically.
2. Democracy means nothing if the people vote to make life worse for themselves and others (climate policy, science policy, humanitarian policy, sexual health policy)
3. In a world where super powers exist, if pushed to choose, I will defer to the one which has not declared war on countries outside its border. That doesn't mean I condone everything they do. China has just not done this - not just in the past 70 years, but in millenia. They are not an expansionist state.
Beyond that, you are free to refute this as much as you like. I am tired of debating with idiots this week (I'm not calling you one here) and don't want to lash out at you which I risk doing if I continue.
Congratulations on fatherhood by the way. My one pro tip: zips. Far easier to manage than buttons.
bobnowhere
Member
Pretty sure it was the Brits that kicked the inhabitants off Diego Garcia. There's a great Pilger Doco on it.
Anyway, Ian MacFarlane of all people is out advocating for a change in Australia Day. Barnaby is talking nonsense and Malcolm is avoiding the impression that he has any opinion at all, on anything really. MacFarlane's proposing March 1 as it was when the Federal Government took over function from the colonies in 1901 and avoids a hungover January 1.
One of the interesting things to come out of that latest Essential poll was that 46% of people just view it as a public holiday!
Anyway, Ian MacFarlane of all people is out advocating for a change in Australia Day. Barnaby is talking nonsense and Malcolm is avoiding the impression that he has any opinion at all, on anything really. MacFarlane's proposing March 1 as it was when the Federal Government took over function from the colonies in 1901 and avoids a hungover January 1.
One of the interesting things to come out of that latest Essential poll was that 46% of people just view it as a public holiday!
Elaugaufein
Member
That doesn't surprise me at all, it only dates back to '94 as an official thing and it's also why pushback is so hard , people really do not like losing public holidays (which is why proposals to move it to Anzac Day are not great). Moving it to Federation day is interesting , and I think I get where people who want to move it to some day significant to Aboriginals are coming from, but that's a fool's errand since thats making the current error in the opposite direction, well intentioned perhaps but dim.
My mistake, the US came soon after. It's an interesting parallel to what the Chinese are doing with pacific islands, however.
I like the March 1 date. Good historical connection back to teh events of federation and a good spot in the year for a holiday.
Surprised there would be any LNP voice advocating for any change though.
The lib response to the Australia protests has been straight up callous. After the last week of trump I thought I was desensitised but nope, they're still fuck wits. I think third Friday of jan or first Friday of feb would be ideal. Who cares if the date itself doesn't mean anything,
Exactly what I was thinking, leaning more towards the first Friday of February (no real reason).
You move the day, but not so far away that people bitch about losing their later summer public holiday. People get a long weekend so they aren't taking days off to deal with awkward mid-week days... I'm not seeing any downsides. Well, besides the fact that certain types of people are going to perceive it as an attack on their identity for some reason and will bitch endlessly about it.
farmerboy
Member
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