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[D.Lo]

Yeah, Labor really fucked up how they knifed Rudd. The sudden, out-of-the-blue coup set a bad, bad precedent, nevermind what we knew of the coup at the time implied the reasons was mainly because of the mining tax rather anything to do with Rudd himself personally, which made the move seem especially cowardly.

The message it sent was 'fuck you voters, we'll override your Kevin07 decision'.

Abbott was obviously different because he was never elected on his own popularity, but despite the lack of it. And then when he was ditched it was super clear why, he was an insane onion munching helicopter flight defending royalty knighting laughing stock.

 

[D.Lo]

oops double post, weird.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Is it me or is it looking increasingly embarrassing to see intelligent humane people stand up in front of microphones and say the trump immigration thing is pretty fucking inhumane and poorly implemented as well, while Turnbull says through gritted teeth it isn't his business to discuss other countries, and Bishops smile just gets harder as she waves the issue off.
Like isn't this becoming a litmus test for whether ones leaders are really just assholes, or at the very least still somewhat aware and responsive to public opinion?

Maybe bishop did a deal. The hidden protocol was: don't shitpost about trump for '17 or it's off.

The LNP can't badmouth Trump, they desperately need him to resolve / justify their refugee policy/problem. Unless he does something so horrible unanimous international condemnation is obviously coming they'll at best avoid any decisive comment and at worst go along with it.

(Not that the ALP is free from blame here, they've been only slightly less willing than the LNP to be both overdependent on and obsequious too, the US. )

 

[darkace]

Maintaining our relationship with the US is of paramount importance. We don't have the luxury to call out Trump, regardless of the moronic things he does.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Maintaining our relationship with the US is of paramount importance. We don't have the luxury to call out Trump, regardless of the moronic things he does.

Trump is basically the living incarnation of why being overdependent on a single foreign power is a terrible idea (at least as far as over-exaggerated publicly obvious satire of it made real goes). And yet , despite that, absolutely nothing will be learnt.

 

[TheWasTheJoke]

Maintaining our relationship with the US is of paramount importance. We don't have the luxury to call out Trump, regardless of the moronic things he does.

I don't really think this is true. We're not economically dependant on the US and even if we were Trump's temper tantrums couldn't pass McConnell and Co. and the general GOP base in creating some awful tariff system or the like. Of course I wouldn't promote openly hostile attitudes but rather tact condemnations of certain policies a la Merkel and Trudeau, which while probably wouldn't be effective would be an important gesture.

 

[bobnowhere]

Is it me or is it looking increasingly embarrassing to see intelligent humane people stand up in front of microphones and say the trump immigration thing is pretty fucking inhumane and poorly implemented as well, while Turnbull says through gritted teeth it isn't his business to discuss other countries, and Bishops smile just gets harder as she waves the issue off.
Like isn't this becoming a litmus test for whether ones leaders are really just assholes, or at the very least still somewhat aware and responsive to public opinion?

Maybe bishop did a deal. The hidden protocol was: don't shitpost about trump for '17 or it's off.

Without a doubt the price of the refugee deal was silence.

Another interesting thing about ScoMo, he's talking about his previous ministerial post, not his current one as Treasurer. In the eyes of the right and himself he was successful as Immigration minister, as Treasurer not so much.

 

[jellies_two]

Maintaining our relationship with the US is of paramount importance. We don't have the luxury to call out Trump, regardless of the moronic things he does.

they are going to have a conniption when trump turns his attention to China. They are worth much more in trade than USA.
it will be like the awkward teenage kid in a divorce. Who to stick with? what to believe.

 

[DaMan121]

So Andrew Bolt thinks our boy Malcolm can learn a thing or two from Trump, yet all he did was detain a few hundred people at the airport. Mate, we put them on a boat to a remote island in concentration, I mean detention camps. We got them beat!

 

[TheWasTheJoke]

Darkace banned again

Its not really fun if we just have an echo chamber here so this is beginning to frustrate me

 

[Elaugaufein]

Darkace banned again

Its not really fun if we just have an echo chamber here so this is beginning to annoy me

I dunno why he keeps participating in threads with topics that are always death sentences for accounts that go against the GAF orthodoxy. I do sometimes too, but I can usually tell when it's time to bail. Hopefully he saw the discord link.

 

[Dead Man]

Meh. If he wants to wade into topics about American politics with no understanding of it first hand, I don't have any sympathy. If he would stop telling people he knows more than them he would do a lot better.

 

[Quasar]

Trump is basically the living incarnation of why being overdependent on a single foreign power is a terrible idea (at least as far as over-exaggerated publicly obvious satire of it made real goes). And yet , despite that, absolutely nothing will be learnt.

Certainly for years I've thought we should be way more independent and less sycophantic to US foreign policy. Even New Zealand manages to be more independent.

Especially with the US spoiling for a war with China.

That said given Australian immigration policies I never would have expected Australia to criticise Trump on that. That would be hilariously hypocritical. If anything I'd would have expected pro-Trump comments as a way to defend what we have been doing.

 

[Dead Man]

Culleton is circling the drain:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-31/rod-culleton-asks-for-stay-on-senate-removal/8226328

Former One Nation senator Rod Culleton has lost a bid to keep his entitlements, pending the outcome of two court cases examining his eligibility to serve as a senator.

The Federal Court is yet to make a decision on whether to set aside a bankruptcy ruling against Mr Culleton and the High Court has not delivered its ruling on whether a conviction may be grounds for an invalid election.

Mr Culleton wanted his privileges and allowances as a senator restored until the matters were resolved.

Under section 44 of the constitution, a senator who is declared bankrupt or insolvent is disqualified from serving in the Senate.

His lawyer Peter King told the Court of Disputed returns today that Senate president Stephen Parry and Attorney-General George Brandis overreached their authority declaring a vacancy.

"What they have done is to presume his seat is vacant," he said.

"They have taken away his privileges."

Mr King told the court that meant his client had lost his allowances and support staff.

He said this was wrong, as the removal of a member of the Senate is a matter for the Senate.

"These two members of the Senate have overreached themselves," Mr King said.

However, this afternoon Justice Stephen Gageler dismissed Mr Culleton's application.

 

[bobnowhere]

Serial vexatious litigant.

The dude just needs to move on. He's still claiming he's a Senator, still wears the special pin and is claiming he'll be in Parliament next week. He may legitimately get arrested for trying to impersonate a Federal Official next week if he tries to get in. Though I believe his security clearance has been removed and the furthest he'll get is the car park.

Edit: Apparently the first and most important part of his case today and he wouldn't even get to the case at hand was to ensure the court refered to him as Senator Cullerton not Mr. Cullerton. Complete nut, and not even the nuttiest in his ex-party.

 

[danm999]

I mean, let's be honest, he's only there because most voters are too lazy to vote below the line so given he quit his own party and is still trying to hold on adds an extra element of desperation.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I mean, let's be honest, he's only there because most voters are too lazy to vote below the line so given he quit his own party and is still trying to hold on adds an extra element of desperation.

You're thinking of Roberts. Cullerton was the PHON top of ticket candidate for WA.

 

[danm999]

You're thinking of Roberts. Cullerton was the PHON top of ticket candidate for WA.

Oh am I?

I'm still skeptical he didn't skate in on party brand TBH.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Oh am I?

I'm still skeptical he didn't skate in on party brand TBH.

Everyone not named Pauline Hanson or an LNP Defector or who ran for One Nation during there first heyday is skating in on party brand.

Tbf this is true of most parties who aren't running people who have been elected before.

 

[bobnowhere]

WA election called. Last 2pp I saw was 52-48 to Labor but another poll in the seat of Joondalup shows a 18.1% swing to Labor firmly in wipeout territory. Though WA is still pretty liberal, Labor should win this.

I was reading about gerrymandering a couple of days ago and the WA upper house is still probably the most blatent example of malapportionment left in Australia. Even though the population split between metro Perth and the rest is something like 75/25, the upper house is split 50/50 in seat allocation entrenching a WA Nats balance of power.

 

[TheWasTheJoke]

Adding on to that, apparently One Nation and the Liberals are on the cusp of reaching a preference deal. Knowing how conservative WA leans this could potentially be a decisive advantage.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Adding on to that, apparently One Nation and the Liberals are on the cusp of reaching a preference deal. Knowing how conservative WA leans this could potentially be a decisive advantage.

WA is weird. It'll put up 2 Greens Senators but you're much less likely to get the pushback from Perth you'd get from a One Nation deal in Queensland due to Brisbane.

 

[Shandy]

WA is an economic breakdown away from doing what the US did. I feel like there's still an underlying resentment of the Eastern States. We'll kick shit up just to be difficult. But I think a lot of people just seem to be casually racist and sexist, as well.

Please civilise us.

 

[Elaugaufein]

WA is an economic breakdown away from doing what the US did. I feel like there's still an underlying resentment of the Eastern States. We'll kick shit up just to be difficult. But I think a lot of people just seem to be casually racist and sexist, as well.

Please civilise us.

Heh, none of us made you inhabit a desert , hell you've wanted to secede before.

(Joking. Mostly. )

 

[Cabaratier]

Wrong Community thread.

 

[TheWasTheJoke]

Interessant en zorgwekkend artikel in VNL (via Blendle), naar aanleiding van een onderzoek onder jongeren.

https://blendle.com/i/vrij-nederlan...pdGVtX2lkIjoiYm5sLXZuLTIwMTcwMTE5LTEyMzYwNyJ9

"Vond in 2007 nog 43 procent van de jongeren dat Nederland zich in de verkeerde richting ontwikkelde, nu is dat 57 procent. Eén op de vijf jongeren verwacht dat Nederland tijdens zijn of haar leven in een dictatuur verandert. En bijna de helft – 48 procent – vreest dat er tijdens zijn of haar leven oorlog uitbreekt in Nederland. Onder ouderen zijn die percentages be­duidend lager: zo is van de 65-plussers niet meer dan 17 procent bang dat er hier te lande oorlog zal uitbreken."

"Die angst werkt door in het stemgedrag. In 2007 koos 26 procent van de jongeren nog voor de SP, nu overweegt 27 procent op de PVV te gaan stemmen: de partij die het hardst ageert tegen de islam en het terrorisme (zie kader.) In het onderzoek noemt 39 procent van de jongeren de dreiging van terrorisme als een belangrijke factor in hun keuze voor een politieke partij. Per saldo zijn jongeren in het afgelopen decennium duidelijk naar rechts opgeschoven (zie kader)."

En hoe zit het met het onderwijs? Zo dus:

"Van Kesteren wijst op een groot onderliggend probleem dat het verschil in democratische opvattingen tussen de verschillende opleidingsniveaus kan verklaren. Zijn havoleerlingen krijgen veel meer les in maatschappijleer – twee jaar lang vier uur per week – dan de leerlingen op de mavo en het vmbo: daar moeten ze het doen met één jaar twee uur per week."

Het gebrek aan maatschappijleer en andere activiteiten (zoals debatten, rollenspellen etc.) in het onderwijs is mijns inziens een belangrijke oorzaak van afnemende participatie van jongeren in het democratisch proces en vergroot de kans dat Nederland politiek gezien richting het VK en de VS opschuift. Weinig kennis + het gevoel dat de politiek niet naar je luistert + geen vertrouwen in de media is een gevaarlijke combinatie.

Bad news for you buddy..

 

[bomma_man]

malcuck

 

[jellies_two]

Holy shit Turnbull just blew his entire career in one phone call.
Coming on top of his 1.75 million dollar own goal, he is toast.

 

[Elaugaufein]

malcuck

Is it wrong that that's pretty much what I expected in the absence of evidence otherwise at this point ?

 

[danm999]

Is it wrong my first reaction was hysterical laughter?

After days/weeks of cowardly not condemning Trump's racist policy and being a total absentee leader with the implied gain of a great relationship with the USA Trump makes Turnbull look like a total empty suit in a single phone call.

Of course then I remember the political football in all this are some poor souls trapped in a hellhole and I get sad.

 

[jellies_two]

Is it wrong my first reaction was hysterical laughter?.

I had the same reaction.
Especially his unbelievable annoyed slash irritated slash self-confidence with any questions over it. Like, why do I keep having to explain to you guys in the press just how much we have this under control, these pesky questions are just playing politics, blah blah

Like he was living in 2015.

 

[Shaneus]

The best thing is, Turnbull now can't say anything bad about how Trump is acting. If he does, it'll just look like he's upset about how the phone call went.

This, coupled with the donations thing, has royally fucked him. If Shorten doesn't make the most of this, he's almost just as bad.



I could tell from 7:30 last night that things didn't go well for the ol' tophat during his phone call, his body language was dodgy as.


PS. Stan Grant was awesome. Everyone should watch the whole thing.

 

[jellies_two]

So actually I may have prematurely laughed hysterically because the deal is still on, right, just now Trump raged at turnbull, and reserved the right to cancel it if too much shit flies into his face over it from his base.

The "extreme vetting" means these guys are going to be waiting offshore for several years yes, because even under Obama, it would take 3 years for an iraqi interpreter for the US army to go through the sausage machine of dept of immigration and homeland security.

This deal will be a deal on paper only? I hope Australia would consider an offer from another country not the madhouse of america.

 

[D.Lo]

Eh, I feel sorry for Turnbull on this one. What's he supposed to do? Trump is being a child but Australia can't say 'fuck you' to America.

 

[danm999]

Wondering what the wider implications for Trump's admin are if he has in fact just demonstrated to the world that;

A) Even if you're an ally as close as Australia and the USA has made a deal with you it means sweet FA to Trump; and
B) Trump and his team are happy to leak your humiliation to make themselves look strong or whatever the fuck this is.

 

[Jintor]

Cool. This is... This is great.

What the flying fuck

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Our defence situation may be in a vulnerable position now that Trump is in power. His willingness to use his powers to tear up longstanding treaties and agreements, even with longtime friends is worrying.

We are not equipped to defend ourselves from a serious attack without American help. We depend on them for their capabilities, intelligence, manpower and materiel.

Not that we'd get into a war under normal circumstances, but if Trump starts something and we get dragged into it, what guarantees do we have, given his behaviour up until now toward NATO, that he won't leave us out to dry?

This scenario was unimaginable a few months ago.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Wondering what the wider implications for Trump's admin are if he has in fact just demonstrated to the world that;

A) Even if you're an ally as close as Australia and the USA has made a deal with you it means sweet FA to Trump; and
B) Trump and his team are happy to leak your humiliation to make themselves look strong or whatever the fuck this is.

The implications are you can't trust America to keep their end of a deal but frankly that likely doesn't matter much for internal consideration, they pretty much write every deal and get all the benefits already. Its going to make deal making harder where public pressure on other governments could arise though since the shine is definitely going to be coming off the halo.

(Especially since Trump doesn't seem to be capable of feeling like he's winning unless someone else is losing).

Our defence situation may be in a vulnerable position now that Trump is in power. His willingness to use his powers to tear up longstanding treaties and agreements, even with longtime friends is worrying.

We are not equipped to defend ourselves from a serious attack without American help. We depend on them for their capabilities, intelligence, manpower and materiel.

Not that we'd get into a war under normal circumstances, but if Trump starts something and we get dragged into it, what guarantees do we have, given his behaviour up until now toward NATO, that he won't leave us out to dry?

This scenario was unimaginable a few months ago.

This says so much about the value of American soft power. They've left allies high and dry before yet its unthinkable they'd do it again. And Trump is burning it all down.

 

[jellies_two]

Eh, I feel sorry for Turnbull on this one. What's he supposed to do? Trump is being a child but Australia can't say 'fuck you' to America.

He could avoid ruining the relationship AND losing too, and he could have understood what we all knew already was gonna happen, and find a different solution with a humane country, like I don't know, Australia..
These people are refuges not AQ fighters FFS.

 

[Shandy]

What an embarrassment for Turnbull. And he can do precisely jack about it. Hell, half the party is probably grinning like idiots over it. Why, I think I can see Abbott's jaw bone. Can't tell Trump to fuck off in any terms without (further) endangering his position. No choice but to look like, well, as was said: a cuck.

 

[Rlan]

Please let this be a turning point of Bill getting a fucking spine, calling Trump out, and a landslide back towards Labor & Greens next election.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Please let this be a turning point of Bill getting a fucking spine, calling Trump out, and a landslide back towards Labor & Greens next election.

Nahhh, Labor's ahead and has been for months. Shorten will keep a low profile except on things that are clear winners and not being horrible to refugees isn't a clear winner.

 

[danm999]

This is turning into Schrodinger's asylum seeker deal.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

What an embarrassment for Turnbull. And he can do precisely jack about it. Hell, half the party is probably grinning like idiots over it. Why, I think I can see Abbott's jaw bone. Can't tell Trump to fuck off in any terms without (further) endangering his position. No choice but to look like, well, as was said: a cuck.

Xenomorph Abbott's sneaking up behind Turnbull about to put a hole in the back of his head with his inner jaw.

 

[jellies_two]

Getting the "ideology out of the energy market "

Is the new climate change denial, I see.

 

[bobnowhere]

Pretty funny that Turnbull's 1.75mil donation has been completely "dead catted" off the table by Trump!

Not sure where I stand on his donation, his money he can waste it any way he wants but I'd hate to see a situation where only those that can afford to run nominate for political parties. Part of the reason Pollies are paid pretty well is to introduce a certain amount of egalitarianism into it though Lib candidates have been expected to make significant contributions for a while now.

 

[D.Lo]

Please let this be a turning point of Bill getting a fucking spine, calling Trump out, and a landslide back towards Labor & Greens next election.

Shorten has already just done a shitty one liner about 'learning Australian affairs via TV', like anyone expects the full details of a major diplomatic contact to be public. I'm sure if he's elected he'll broadcast all his and his office's internal communications.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Pretty funny that Turnbull's 1.75mil donation has been completely "dead catted" off the table by Trump!

Not sure where I stand on his donation, his money he can waste it any way he wants but I'd hate to see a situation where only those that can afford to run nominate for political parties. Part of the reason Pollies are paid pretty well is to introduce a certain amount of egalitarianism into it though Lib candidates have been expected to make significant contributions for a while now.

Elected Labor candidates pay in a percentage too. I don't really have a problem with this, anymore so than I do the way party systems seem to end up shaking out anyway, if you're going to have parties they need to find themselves and the less of it thats private actors buying influence the better.

 

[jellies_two]

What's shitty about the donation was a man who was close to losing power spent 1.75 on wall to wall jobs and growth ads and pulled his own irons out of the fire.
You really really have to trust someone's integrity to not find that situation risky. His jab is he is beholden to nobody but shorten is beholden to health services union well yeah Malcolm we know another guy who used his own money and is beholden to nobody too, and that isn't working out too well.

Btw Spicer called him mr er-trunbul - shows how infrequently his name has been spoken aloud in the WH I guess.

 

[Elaugaufein]

What's shitty about the donation was a man who was close to losing power spent 1.75 on wall to wall jobs and growth ads and pulled his own irons out of the fire.
You really really have to trust someone's integrity to not find that situation risky. His jab is he is beholden to nobody but shorten is beholden to health services union well yeah Malcolm we know another guy who used his own money and is beholden to nobody too, and that isn't working out too well.

Btw Spicer called him mr er-trunbul - shows how infrequently his name has been spoken aloud in the WH I guess.

To be fair his donation doesn't seem to have bought him any influence even inside the Liberal Party