-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
AusPoliGaf |Early 2016 Election| - the government's term has been... Shortened
- Thread starter Bernbaum
- Start date
- Status
Are you a business owner? I am and I can tell you that the high cost of wages especially on a Sunday will eventually result in me closing the doors on a Sunday or doing it myself with my wife. Something has to give I'm afraid.
So close your fucking doors or get more customers. Or do it yourself as you say.
Employees pay should not be what is blamed for an unprofitable days trading. Improve your business.
My parents were owners of a small restururant and simply closed on public holidays during their first years because it wasn't profitable enough to justify working.
The solution was to build a solid enough customer base that they'd come to one of the few stores in the area that opened during such times.
If weekends and public holidays are threatening the profitability of your business and your existence, you've got bigger profitability/cash flow problems. My brother, who runs a photography business, used to think like that until he started getting better quality work more consistently. It's never the fault of the worker that you can't make money.
The solution was to build a solid enough customer base that they'd come to one of the few stores in the area that opened during such times.
If weekends and public holidays are threatening the profitability of your business and your existence, you've got bigger profitability/cash flow problems. My brother, who runs a photography business, used to think like that until he started getting better quality work more consistently. It's never the fault of the worker that you can't make money.
Easier said than done.
You think people don't want their employees busy enough for a full week?
Business owners want to make money period. They want to be busy for a whole week because it gives them a whole week of business to make money off customers. They're not there to give employees employment.
Obviously it's easier said than done. But like I said, it's never the fault of the worker that you can't make money.
My (admittedly) anecdotal experience in retail (Wesfarmers) years ago has shown me that most managers are looking to identify the minimum required amount of labour to function and then maintain that.
In fact I recall an argument once between a line manager and a store manager over putting our store's increased profitability back into the store by hiring more people for weekend shifts. "Why?"; the store manager asked, "we got the job done with this many beforehand."
I can accept the case may be different for small business but larger retailers and fast food chains are going to make like bandits in this, largely at the expense of the young and vulnerable.
In fact I recall an argument once between a line manager and a store manager over putting our store's increased profitability back into the store by hiring more people for weekend shifts. "Why?"; the store manager asked, "we got the job done with this many beforehand."
I can accept the case may be different for small business but larger retailers and fast food chains are going to make like bandits in this, largely at the expense of the young and vulnerable.
Of course it's easier said than done. If it was easy everyone would be able to do it. Nobody is owed a successful business.
The people most likely to be working weekends, especially Sundays, are the people who need the job - and the money - the most. Of course, the businesses most likely to suffer are the ones who need the most support.
Ideally, I suppose you would provide tax benefits to small businesses that would allow them to compete while also appropriately compensating the employees giving up what society sees as "free time". Big Business will lobby the shit out of that, though, so it's not going to happen.
But saying "Businesses will use the savings to hire more people!" is kind of... I imagine some will, but I doubt it's going to make as much of a difference as they want people to think.
Ideally, I suppose you would provide tax benefits to small businesses that would allow them to compete while also appropriately compensating the employees giving up what society sees as "free time". Big Business will lobby the shit out of that, though, so it's not going to happen.
But saying "Businesses will use the savings to hire more people!" is kind of... I imagine some will, but I doubt it's going to make as much of a difference as they want people to think.
Elaugaufein
Member
On one hand these are Sunday rates and don't really represent "free time", that's Saturday rates. Sunday and Public Holiday rates represent social expectations to be doing something other than working and the primary motivation for that on Sunday was Church which is increasingly irrelevant to the average person in modern society.
On the other hand, yeah, the people most likely to take a hit from this are the people least likely to be able to afford it because if they could they wouldn't be working on Sunday in the first place and it's unlikely they'll get enough extra hours to compensate (it's more likely they'll just get paid less for the same hours they currently work). You might get some more people working from more businesses trading but thats not likely to be comfortably to people who now find themselves unable to pay rent or bills or buy food.
On the other hand, yeah, the people most likely to take a hit from this are the people least likely to be able to afford it because if they could they wouldn't be working on Sunday in the first place and it's unlikely they'll get enough extra hours to compensate (it's more likely they'll just get paid less for the same hours they currently work). You might get some more people working from more businesses trading but thats not likely to be comfortably to people who now find themselves unable to pay rent or bills or buy food.
Wow. Good one. Why didn't I think about any of those things. Why don't we just pay everyone double time 7 days a week and then improve our businesses to compensate.
Why don't you just tell those that may get their wages cut, to just get a higher paying job because everything is just that simple in your world? Or doesn't it go both ways?
D.Lo
Member
Society as a whole has decided night time and weekends are 'unsociable' times to work. These are the times most people spend not working, so able to spend combined time with family and friends.
As such, those who work these hours deserve compensation for not being able to socialise within the agreed norms.
If you have a business that needs weekend/weeknight sales/traffic, it's essentially built on the idea that weekends are special. Can't have you cake and eat it too, either the customers are not at work so can go out as a group to eat/buy/participate, or there are no 'normal' work hours and you don't get a concentrated hospitality/retail prime time in antisocial hours.
Candescence
Member
Meanwhile, Tones is out and about being fairly blatant about his ambitions to return to the top job, espousing policies that voters either don't care about or are outright opposed to. Ah, delcons.
If Abbott knifes Turnbull (again), it'll be the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd saga all over again, except Abbott would tank the Coalition's electoral chances further rather than preventing a total bloodbath like Rudd's return did.
If Abbott knifes Turnbull (again), it'll be the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd saga all over again, except Abbott would tank the Coalition's electoral chances further rather than preventing a total bloodbath like Rudd's return did.
Elaugaufein
Member
I don't know if Abbot's return would tank further honestly at this point. Turnbull's already eating the hit for Abbott's policies since he's been running basically all of them and the Abbott/Bolt/etc wing of the party still refuse to vote for Turnbull on principle. Its possible bringing Abbotto back would give a slight bump as a result. at least until the thing turned into the Abbott Gaffe show again.
He basically kept all of Abbott's policies?! How were they Labor lite?
Absolutely delusional. I didn't expect it but he really didn't spend his time on the backbench doing a lick of introspection.
Elaugaufein
Member
I'd love to know what Abbott is thinking with his proposed Constitutional Senate change too (allowing Joint Sittings withou a DD), does he not realize that If Labor had a fairly standard majority in the House it would allow them to totally ignore the Senate* or is he so bitter about things that he doesn't care ?
*The fact the House is twice the size of the Senate and that it's a majoritorian system , means that even very close results will tend to result in the House easily overwhelming the Senate. Even Turnbull's clustefuck of an election gives him a small edge in a joint sitting.
*The fact the House is twice the size of the Senate and that it's a majoritorian system , means that even very close results will tend to result in the House easily overwhelming the Senate. Even Turnbull's clustefuck of an election gives him a small edge in a joint sitting.
Aarglefarg
Member
He is an attack dog only.
Holy dummy spit batman. D.Lo addresses pretty much the argument I would have made but in much more elegant terms.
You can't have it both ways whenever it suits. You clearly want your weekend off and see it as relaxation time where you shouldn't be at work. So pay people appropriately for the privilege of having them work for you on those days.
AdventureRacing
Member
I'm just sick of politics constantly focusing on nonsense like this. Over the next 20 years we're going to see MAJOR impacts from global warming. Whilst the worst is probably a little bit further away the more I read about global warming the more it seems like things are going to get bad long before most were predicting (basically the future predictions continue to get worse and the dates keep moving forward). We're staring down the gun barrel of the worst catastrophe in human history and we're still squabbling over nonsense.
I don't want to sound like a green extremist but as far as I'm concerned policies regarding carbon emissions (not just electricity) should be the absolute priority. Meanwhile the only real talk we get is bullshit related to blackouts.
TheWasTheJoke
Member
God Abbott is doing exactly what Rudd did
Little shit
Little shit
Candescence
Member
So the WA AG confirmed that, for all intents and purposes, Brandis lied to the senate over his involvement in the Bell Group litigation that was the start of his feud with Gleeson.
Once parliament comes back next week, Brandis is fucked now that Labor, the Greens and the crossbench have evidence to accuse him of contempt.
Once parliament comes back next week, Brandis is fucked now that Labor, the Greens and the crossbench have evidence to accuse him of contempt.
Brandis is a master of spin though - he'll be hard to nail down. Will there be enough crossbenchers to pull it off? We still haven't gotten the diary yet.
bobnowhere
Member
Another couple of geniuses in Victoria.
I like the attitude, happy to represent the people in the Western Suburbs but there's no chance I'd live there! That attitude is rife in the Victorian ALP, plenty of examples of Labor MPs both federal and state living in "nicer" locals than their electorates.
At this point his role as AG is terminal, it has been for while really. He's more interested in trying to avoid so much scrutiny and push things back that it puts his chance at UK High Commissioner at jeopardy. There is no way he's going to London having been proved to have misled the Senate.
I like the attitude, happy to represent the people in the Western Suburbs but there's no chance I'd live there! That attitude is rife in the Victorian ALP, plenty of examples of Labor MPs both federal and state living in "nicer" locals than their electorates.
At this point his role as AG is terminal, it has been for while really. He's more interested in trying to avoid so much scrutiny and push things back that it puts his chance at UK High Commissioner at jeopardy. There is no way he's going to London having been proved to have misled the Senate.
Candescence
Member
Newspoll is 55-45 to Labor, by a change of one percent.
Primary votes: L/NP 34, ALP 37, GRN 10, PHON 10, OTH 9.
Government's primary vote is continuing to crash, and Turnbull's question time attack on Shorten clearly failed. This isn't a matter of merely losing Newspolls, the government is slowly but surely bleeding primary votes, and Turnbull is bleeding even faster than Abbot did. It's been less than a year and the government is heading directly towards an electoral bloodbath.
Turnbull can't afford to have another bad or even merely tepid budget, otherwise he is toast. But that would require standing up to the right-wingers and actually providing good policies. And an outright capitulation to the right-wingers would just result in 2014 all over again.
Primary votes: L/NP 34, ALP 37, GRN 10, PHON 10, OTH 9.
Government's primary vote is continuing to crash, and Turnbull's question time attack on Shorten clearly failed. This isn't a matter of merely losing Newspolls, the government is slowly but surely bleeding primary votes, and Turnbull is bleeding even faster than Abbot did. It's been less than a year and the government is heading directly towards an electoral bloodbath.
Turnbull can't afford to have another bad or even merely tepid budget, otherwise he is toast. But that would require standing up to the right-wingers and actually providing good policies. And an outright capitulation to the right-wingers would just result in 2014 all over again.
Elaugaufein
Member
I'm not sure that would help. I suspect some of Turnbull's loss are Abbott supporters moving to One Nation and notionally being directed to Labor because of One Nations preferencing at the last election (which was a split ticket in most seats). So Turnbull telling the right to go spin may intensify that. It's also possible the 2PP is wrong because of this hard righters will ultimately preferencing the Coalition over Labor even if they defect to One Nation for 1st Preference, so these polls may be overstating Turnbulls 2PP fall.
bobnowhere
Member
Elaugaufein
Member
I dunno how we're going to refer to these years if that happens Rudd-Gillard-Rudd-Abbott-Turnbull-Dutton ?
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...mes-tony-abbott-for-coalitions-newspoll-slide
Mummy and daddy are fighting.
Mummy and daddy are fighting.
Fucking wankers.
bobnowhere
Member
You really have to pay attention when posing for photos during an election campaign.
That's selling Dan Quayle short. He at least doesn't seem malicious in his uselessness and seems not to relish his evil the way Dutton does.
Elaugaufein
Member
You sure ? You could use your connections to win the pool on how long before he gets rolled.
bobnowhere
Member
If Dutton becomes leader, the ALP will win at least 216 of the 150 lower house seats at the next election and the Senate will probably explode. Frydenberg and Porter don't want the poisoned chalice and Morrison and Bishop are tainted by their own failures.
So it looks like Bill Leak deliberately dragged out his 18c investigation for "political" purposes. He was given 2 chances to declare his cartoon, the pretty grotty one where an Aboriginal Father didn't know the name of his son, was fair comment and at that point the commission would have ended the claim but he never responded.
Edit: Uh-oh daddy-o. George Christensen just resigned as the Whip for the National Party. Crossing the floor on his Sugar thingy or the Banking RC? Joining the PHON? Joining Bernardi who is lonely all on his own? Got lost and can't find the House?
And Abetz throwing a wobbly over a Rainbow Flag outside of the Finance Department. Wants a Marriage Alliance flag flown as well!
So it turns out the Gay and Lesbian Kingdom of the Coral Sea is an actual place.
So it looks like Bill Leak deliberately dragged out his 18c investigation for "political" purposes. He was given 2 chances to declare his cartoon, the pretty grotty one where an Aboriginal Father didn't know the name of his son, was fair comment and at that point the commission would have ended the claim but he never responded.
Edit: Uh-oh daddy-o. George Christensen just resigned as the Whip for the National Party. Crossing the floor on his Sugar thingy or the Banking RC? Joining the PHON? Joining Bernardi who is lonely all on his own? Got lost and can't find the House?
And Abetz throwing a wobbly over a Rainbow Flag outside of the Finance Department. Wants a Marriage Alliance flag flown as well!
Eric Abetz said:
So it turns out the Gay and Lesbian Kingdom of the Coral Sea is an actual place.
Elaugaufein
Member
I can't see him joining Bernadi, the politics are too different,
George is closer to the Katter mold, Cori is a Conservative Lib to the bone, trying to pretend he's a populist.
George has been cosying up to PHON too and their politics are reconciliable so that wouldn't surprise me (especially with the polling in his seat where he has a decent chance of winning with his personal vote + PHON whereas the current situation has him needing Labor preferences to get over.
Also I'm starting to question if Abetz is either an epic troll or genuinely in need of psychiatric help, Poe's law strikes again.
Edit - I like how their own weather indicator calls it Cato Island, Australia. So either taking the piss or not very good at this Sovereign Kingdom thing.
Edit2 - Hasn't need updated since 2007 , looks like it was setup in response to Howard's changes.
ETA3 - I wonder if Cormann was in the running. He's managed pretty good relationships with all 3 groups and hasn't badly embarassed himself. Though considering he went Scorched Earth on Abbott it seems he doesn't want the job atm either (which is probably a good reading of the situation).
D.Lo
Member
They need to get Corman in the lower house, or get Costello back or something. Both smug shitpieces but fuck they look like gods compared to Dutton.
What a nightmare of a party. What is wrong with this country. I think Shorten is the worst leader Labor has had for 30 years (yes including Latham who was fine when he was leader) and he'll sleepwalk into PM.
What a nightmare of a party. What is wrong with this country. I think Shorten is the worst leader Labor has had for 30 years (yes including Latham who was fine when he was leader) and he'll sleepwalk into PM.
Elaugaufein
Member
I dunno if Shorten was just lucky or a brilliant pick. Abbott was totally unable to deal with Shorten, being an empty suit is a pretty big advantage when your opponent only knows how to brawl, and Turnbull was hanged by his own party before he was even put up as Leader, all Shorten had to do was wait for that to become obvious, if Shorten had been more noticeable himself it might have actually distracted from the Lib internal problems.
TheWasTheJoke
Member
Imagine how popular Albanese would be right now
That's a good point; I could see someone more publicly formidable like Albo uniting the party behind Turnbull to stay in power.
D.Lo
Member
Both.
I mean, technically Shorten has lost an election and Turnbull has not, despite Shorten having had his party behind him for an entire term as leader. He may have beaten Abbott, but Albo would have easily won last election against either IMO, and in normal scenarios Shorten would be cooked as leader after a loss too.
He's only viable now, after a weak (scrape in) win from Turnbull firing up the right, and the LNP collapsing in on itself in that wake. And the obvious Labor challenger has actually proven he is lacking a bit of ticker, he's quietened down because they're ahead in the polls, but while Labor can beat the Libs, given the shitshow on the right they should be aiming at winning a Senate majority.
Albo missed his shot at organising a tap on Shorten's shoulder IMO largely because of it taking so long for the official election result to come back.
- Status