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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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I

isoquant

Member
What are y'all thoughts on this (by Wyatt Roy)?

Indeed, those on the Left who claim to represent a humanitarian viewpoint have overlooked, ignored or forgotten that under the policies of Labor and the Greens, more than 1100 people drowned while trying to reach Australia in leaky boats.

With the flow of illegal arrivals now effectively stymied, we must seriously consider raising our obligation to those seeking refuge from the world’s most desperate, dangerous and persecutory regimes. The priority for now is rightly on getting people out of detention.

But I’m advocating that the 13,750 places in Australia’s humanitarian program should be at least doubled once the backlog in processing centres — the legacy of Labor’s policy failures — is cleared. Lifting the cap is the logical humanitarian dividend of the government’s strong, committed border protection policy.

]http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/after-stopping-the-boats-australia-can-take-in-more-endangered-refugees/story-e6frg6n6-1227050678980
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H

hidys

Member
Arksy said:
After three devastating wars between France and Germany, bringing those two nations to the table was an incredibly sensible thing to do....

Political Union...trying to force together countries without their consent in a continent that's characterised by ancient animosities and without anything to unify them, whether it be language, ethnicity or history...is incredibly problematic.

Also there is an argument that a currency zone between Germany and the Netherlands and very few other northern European countries would have been OK. I don't quite know what those arguments are, I just know that they exist...apparently...
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Quasar said:
See to me it seemed like a good idea given the amount of intra European travel. Only need to carry one currency seems good. That said as a history geek the loss of national currencies makes me said.
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There seems to be very little forcing the Germans and the French together. They could have decided not to form a political union but they chose to.

In terms of the currency matter there are important economic reasons why a country needs to be able to print its own currency.

Here is a great op-ed by Paul Krugman on the Scottish independence campaign which touches on the matter of currency and why it is important (he has said the same about the Euro in separate op-eds but i can't be fucked finding them).

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/opinion/paul-krugman-scots-what-the-heck.html?_r=1

There are times when, because countries have their own separate fiscal policies certain countries would benefit from an expansionary monetary policy, while others would benefit from a contractionary one.

It would work if you also had a unified fiscal policy across Europe though virtually everyone would think that is undesirable.

It is for this reason alone I think Scottish independence is a bad idea.

EDIT: It has also come to my attention that the European Central Bank is run by dickheads. President Jean-Claude Trichet decided that during 2011 it would be a really good idea to raise interest rates twice. This was at a time when some people were talking about the collapse of the Eurozone.
 
D

Dryk

Member
The LNP's current "They're alive, that's all that matters" reminds me so much of the Republicans making sure that babies are born so that they can neglect them.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
hidys said:
There seems to be very little forcing the Germans and the French together. They could have decided not to form a political union but they chose to.

In terms of the currency matter there are important economic reasons why a country needs to be able to print its own currency.

Here is a great op-ed by Paul Krugman on the Scottish independence campaign which touches on the matter of currency and why it is important (he has said the same about the Euro in separate op-eds but i can't be fucked finding them).

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/09/08...heck.html?_r=1

There are times when, because countries have their own separate fiscal policies certain countries would benefit from an expansionary monetary policy, while others would benefit from a contractionary one.

It would work if you also had a unified fiscal policy across Europe though virtually everyone would think that is undesirable.

It is for this reason alone I think Scottish independence is a bad idea.

EDIT: It has also come to my attention that the European Central Bank is run by dickheads. President Jean-Claude Trichet decided that during 2011 it would be a really good idea to raise interest rates twice. This was at a time when some people were talking about the collapse of the Eurozone.
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Yeah, it's both funny and depressing that the currency options being considered for an independent Scotland would do nothing but increase their dependence on and subservience to London. Enjoy your freedom when your fiscal policy is limited by your ability to earn/borrow a foreign currency to spend or maintain an exchange rate peg with.

ECB is wedded to monetary policy (they are central bankers, but they take it too far). Very unable/unwilling to recognise the issues the currency poses. Hence Draghi pushing on a string as hard as possible by enacting negative interest on reserves in order to encourage lending, because it's not like we've seen any major problems with banks lending despite a lack of credit-worthy customers in recent times.
 
M

Myansie

Member
isoquant said:
What are y'all thoughts on this (by Wyatt Roy)?
Click to expand...

It's not like the people jumping on boats were leaving beautiful Tuscan homes. That terrifyingly risky journey was their safest option. The same number of people are dying, more likely more. What the government has done is push the responsibility elsewhere. You can call it creative accounting where dollars are humans.
 
M

Myansie

Member
Fredescu said:
What is this based on?
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It's impossible to measure and that's what's allowing the policy. What is certain is the direction they are fleeing from is worse than the direction they are going to. If it's a high risk of drowning and concentration camp style detention on our end, on the other it's an ISIS grunt using you as his personal sex slave.

Pretending we are saving lives is disingenuous. The only problem solved by 'stopping the boats' are some negative headlines for the Libs.

Just today the new UN Human Rights commissioner strongly criticised the policy. What other countries did he single out for human rights violations?

Syria, Gaza, Ukraine and Iraq. Charming company.
 
D

Dryk

Member
Fredescu said:
What is this based on?
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To cook for your family in many refugee camp requires twice as much wood as you are allotted. Because of this lots of refugees venture beyond the gates to collect more. If you're a woman you're likely to come back raped, if you're a man you're even more likely to not come back at all.

Yagharek said:
We can't say how many people have still died. It's all hypothetical without tracking intent and results. But let's not pretend the problem has disappeared. It has just relocated.
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The intent of the major parties policies are obvious: "Please, fuck off and die somewhere else"
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
Fredescu said:
What is this based on?
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Logic suggests we haven't just stopped the boats; merely diverted them to somewhere else.

We've stopped large numbers of people drowning between Indonesia and Australia, but we don't know if that has resulted in more drownings between any other countries these prospective refugees will be going to instead of Australia now.

Maybe there have been more tangentially related deaths - people without citizen status in transit countries not able to access medical treatment. Maybe victims of crime. Maybe in Sri Lanka potential refugees are instead getting locked up or beaten because of their ethnicity. Who knows.

We can't say how many people have still died. It's all hypothetical without tracking intent and results. But let's not pretend the problem has disappeared. It has just relocated.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
Arksy said:
I heard that a family that's reliant on government welfare was having a second child.

Absolutely disgusting.
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Yes but cost benefit analysis shows that public funding for the child delivers a massive stimulus to multiple sectors of the economy. The ROI is too good for any fiscally responsible government to ignore.
 
D

Dryk

Member
Shaneus said:
Classy fucking guy. Minister for Women's Affairs, ladies and gentlemen.
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Gaffe once, shame on the Minister, gaffe twice, shame on the advisers. It actually makes me wonder if anyone ever sat him down after the first time and told him no.
 
R

Ruthless_Barbarian

Member
Shaneus said:
Hot daughters. According to him.
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Dead Man said:
Must make them popular.
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tony-wink-gif.4780
 
A

Arksy

Member
Well....I heard there's a statute of Marx down at ABC headquarters.....I was told by a drunk at the pub the other day. Must be true.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
The reality distortion bubble at The Australian would be hilarious if it didn't also envelope incredibly powerful and influential people.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
So how many more LNP members in NSW have to be named by ICAC before Labor can form a new State government? And will this happen before the next NSW state election?

10 down so far...
 
F

Fredescu

Member
Yagharek said:
So how many more LNP members in NSW have to be named by ICAC before Labor can form a new State government? And will this happen before the next NSW state election?

10 down so far...
Click to expand...

I saw a tweet saying that 12 more would put them in minority government territory. I cbfd figuring out if that's true, so take that fwiw.
 
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