Still going. At least the questions period is still going. He's giving a speech to the National Press Club. Basically trying to justify his ongoing leadership, and failing miserably.
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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?
- Thread starter Bernbaum
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Still going. At least the questions period is still going. He's giving a speech to the National Press Club. Basically trying to justify his ongoing leadership, and failing miserably.
bobnowhere
Member
Oh god I want to reach through the screen and give Joe a hug. It'll all be better soon big fella when you're sitting on the back bench and then have a nice cushy consulting job after the next election.
Okay, it's the press club thing. Just switched onto watching (listening) to it live on the ABC website. Right now he's just fumbling through his words... has he been like this through the whole speech?
Cheers. I assume this will be available to listen to/watch in full somewhere? Likely ABC I guess.
yes
Yes, its actually pretty hilarious.
Haha he's talking about Labor creating scare campaigns.
Dude has tears in his eyes. He knows Tony Abbott fucked up.
Entirely self interested of course. He knows any reshuffle is going to see him lose his job.
No doubt, the whole LNP there looked damned worried over there. Except for Morrison, who probably smells blood.
So he's been denying that's what he said prior to the election and *now* he's saying he said it and it was wrong? What a little cunt.
I can't wait to hear it in full. I'm almost surprised he hasn't done his nodding thing when trying to answer a question.
As opposed to robbing future generations of a planet to safely live on. For fuck's sake. FUCK.
Until I checked Twitter I didn't even realise the climate change part. I was furious purely because of him saying that after the previous LNP government squandered the mining boom. Carbon tax, NBN, etc. None of that is ripping off future generations to pay for today, it's investing in that future. Tax cuts? Now that's ripping off the future to pay for today.
Doesn't want to cause inter-generational theft, proceeds to try implementing a GP tax that would cause thousands of lower income workers trouble, the uncapping of university fees to further push debt into students lives as they try to get out of low income fields and wanting to destroy unions/reduce minimum wage.
Okay, sure.
Okay, sure.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/fed...fe-but-will-it-be-enough-20150202-133r46.html
Um no, it's the people that decide on the government, the only people that can decide on who is the PM in any shape or form (outside of the party) is the people that live in that person's electorate. Maybe there should be a referendum for who is the PM. As the polls show, there are plenty of people out there that would support an LNP government lead by Bishop or Turnbull.
If they switch to Turnbull now they can still win the next election. Even if they don't, they can still redeem some of their term in government and actually pass something that makes Australua better. That's presuming he's allowed to pull the party back to just right of Labor. Gillard managed a second term and her policies were popular. It was the relentless negativity and contradictory promises from Abbott combined with the continued infighting within Labor that killed them.
"The fundamental lesson is that if you want to put in place difficult but necessary reform you've got to explain it, you've got to justify it and you've got to bring the people with you." Tony Abbott at the Press Club today.
This quote sums up Abbott's problems. When he says the word 'reform' it's a dog whistle for far right neocon policies. Policies he hid and lied about leading up to the election. He knew he would be unelectable with those policies, but he pushed forward anyway. Still with the worst polling since Keating, he pushes forward.
Why? Because the electorate don't get it. His only fault is not dumbing things down enough for the masses to consume. The three word slogan.
Without fundamental policy change this debacle is going to continue for Abbott. They have to kick him out.
"The fundamental lesson is that if you want to put in place difficult but necessary reform you've got to explain it, you've got to justify it and you've got to bring the people with you." Tony Abbott at the Press Club today.
This quote sums up Abbott's problems. When he says the word 'reform' it's a dog whistle for far right neocon policies. Policies he hid and lied about leading up to the election. He knew he would be unelectable with those policies, but he pushed forward anyway. Still with the worst polling since Keating, he pushes forward.
Why? Because the electorate don't get it. His only fault is not dumbing things down enough for the masses to consume. The three word slogan.
Without fundamental policy change this debacle is going to continue for Abbott. They have to kick him out.
WayneMorse
Banned
I used to think Shorten was a shit leader but now I understand why he isn't being more forceful. With a government like this who needs an opposition? Just let them destroy themselves.
WE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THIS BEFORE
Candescence
Member
So all I'm hearing thus far is that Abbot's speech is a disaster and even the media thinks he blew it.
Shorten can be pretty awesome when he feels like it, his post-budget speech was amazing.
Shorten can be pretty awesome when he feels like it, his post-budget speech was amazing.
It's a much bigger presumption to think that he'd ever want to do this in the first place.
Elaugaufein
Member
Hnm. It says something about the time that we live in that politicians swearing undying support to their leaders is read as "Sharpening the knives as we speak". People just flat out don't believe politician.
As for the repeated "communications problem" mantra I think it makes sense of you consider that they truly believe in Just World theory and supply side economics. People couldn't possibly object to living in a Gilded Age (look at the GDP!, look at the average wealth!) so it MUST be the way the message is delivered.
As for the repeated "communications problem" mantra I think it makes sense of you consider that they truly believe in Just World theory and supply side economics. People couldn't possibly object to living in a Gilded Age (look at the GDP!, look at the average wealth!) so it MUST be the way the message is delivered.
Someone who is only awesome when they feel like it is not actually awesome at all.
You cant be awesome all the time.
I am. What's his problem?
But also, if you can choose to be not awesome, you are not awesome. Awesomeness is not something you can deny if it is your moment to be awesome. If you cannot be awesome at that moment, that is fine. It is not your moment. If you sit there knowing you can be awesome and choose not to be, fuck you.The best thing Shorten can do right now is pretty much nothing and just occasionally pop his head out to say he isn't Abbott.
The minute they dump Abbott though he has to go hardball.
Yes. How terrible of him to put the party ahead of a person.
This idiocy makes me sickly. The PM is a leader, when a leader fails to perform, the party should dump them.
Should companies stick with CEOs who are terrible? Should football teams stick with coaches and captains who are not performing?
We dont vote for prime ministers. We vote for parties.
Parties that fail to remove ineffective leaders are much worse than a party that 'sticks it out' with a leader who isnt leading.
Your loyalty is not what we vote for. The idea of anyone voting for Abbot because 'damn, those liberals stuck with him good on them' or that people would vote against Gillard or Shorten because 'omg they so mean!' is ridiculous to me in the extreme.
Leadership means leading, if you fail, you either step aside gracefully or get the boot. Sticking it out shouldnt be the better option for anyone. When the party is facing wipe out, when the leader has no vision or ability to turn it around.... you act. When a ceo is losing money and has no reasonable prospect to get back into the black, the board has to act. Not doing so is a disservice to the shareholders. And those that voted for you. (You, not the PM)
Go back to America.
He is also at this point in his career the most successful opposition leader of all time. I suspect he will likely develop a proper policy proposal before the next election.
I have no idea what a Turnbull government would look like but I find it extremely unlikely that I'll support any Liberal government ever.
At minimum Turnbull would have to reverse most of what Abbott has done/is doing and a MUCH fairer approach to budget management.
Elaugaufein
Member
Now now due credit must be granted to Labors Left for Shortens election. Though in fairness the distinct lack of backbone may have granted Ludlam a WA Senate seat for as long as he wants it, so its not ALL bad.
Even with Abbott gone, it'd still be a party with horrors like Scott Morrison in power and many, if not all, of the same shitty, inhumane policies.
D.Lo
Member
The results speak for themselves. A government who saved Australia from the GFC was not returned (limped into minority government). They did a terrible job of it yes, it was a massive massive blunder.
I agree Abbott getting ditched is completely different and the correct thing to do.
And my Turnbull suggestion would also require him ditching Pyne, Morrison and Hockey.
Candescence
Member
Considering Shorten has explicitly said that they'll unveil their policy platform later, they're probably waiting for the right time to do it. Better to let the government continually shoot itself in the foot, and then properly act if the government starts to turn things around.
Remember what happened last time Turnbull did something his party didn't like!
D.Lo
Member
true dat. He really isn't a Liberal and that is why I (and it seems the public) like him.
That had nothing to do with the dumping. They did go on to win the next election.
See, its a team game. Leadership problems are generally just the way that blame falls. Gillard had to deal with minority government and several independents and the greens. Considering that, I think she did pretty good. And Tony was an effective wrecking ball. (And not much else)
Labour has always been terrible at selling its economic credentials.
Elaugaufein
Member
At a guess the right wing minor party preferences pulled her ahead of Labor at which point "put the LNP last" bit them in the ass.
ETA - Only 5 Booths of preferences are done, so depending on which 5 things could change pretty drastically too.
God no, on economic issues he's probably one of the more extreme Liberals in the party.
CrazedProfessional
Member
Only people who are bad at following politics love Turnbull.
Fraudband
ABC & SBS cuts
Supports everything Tony does but publicly uses snake works to make it seem like he doesn't
Make no mistake, even if Turnbull takes the Leadership, even if he is actually a softer Liberal: Shitheads like Morrison, Bishop, Truss, Joyce, Pyne will still be there. They will still want to cut jobs, funding and make Australia a cruel 'my-way-or-the-highway' place.
The mining boom is over but all they have is cutting small business taxes. The Howard years are behind us, there are no more booms to make "magic" happen. Especially if you cut Science funding and make a limp attempt at internet infrastructure.
Fraudband
ABC & SBS cuts
Supports everything Tony does but publicly uses snake works to make it seem like he doesn't
Make no mistake, even if Turnbull takes the Leadership, even if he is actually a softer Liberal: Shitheads like Morrison, Bishop, Truss, Joyce, Pyne will still be there. They will still want to cut jobs, funding and make Australia a cruel 'my-way-or-the-highway' place.
The mining boom is over but all they have is cutting small business taxes. The Howard years are behind us, there are no more booms to make "magic" happen. Especially if you cut Science funding and make a limp attempt at internet infrastructure.
All of this needs to be said a thousand times. Turnbull is obviously better at politics than Abbott (which is saying very little) but at the end of the day he is still a Liberal and hence not to be trusted.
I don't like it...
D.Lo
Member
So absolute and ideological. And ridiculous.
You really think all the Libs are 'bad guys' in there to deliberately enslave the proles?
Well... we can judge them on their policies and what they say they believe in...
(The ironing in calling someone else 'ideological' when talking about a political party)
Turnbull is basically presents himself as a Libertarian. His fiscal policy is pretty much your expected "guiding hand of the free market" crap which naturally is not all that beneficial to those in disadvantaged socioeconomic situations.
I really think "all the Libs", Turnbull certainly included, want to cut public education, public health, and the welfare state, down to nothing. No, that's not politically possible, but they chip away at it every chance they get. They are not there to "deliberately enslave the proles" because they are deluded enough to think that this would be a benefit to everyone.
If you're actually interested to know what Turnbull thinks, give this a read: http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2012/april/1337744204/robert-manne/one-morning-malcolm
It's sheer ignorance for anyone vaguely left leaning to think a Turnbull lead Liberal party would be anything close to progressive economically.
Dastardly Jerks
Banned
Who could've seen Monday morning going the way it did.
Oh, everybody.
Political tact more than anything.
But if we're using Scott Ludlam as a baramoter for Awesome, then yeah well...
Oh, everybody.
Political tact more than anything.
But if we're using Scott Ludlam as a baramoter for Awesome, then yeah well...
The media grilled the shit out of him, a pleasant surprise even from some of the Murdoch press. This will filter down into the general mass, so those who still hold no doubt about Abbott will certainly see the clearer picture now.
Their policies certainly reflect the fact that want to gut our health system, our education, our rights at work and Turnbull has stood behind all of this.
#yesallliberals
And on the Hanson thing Poll Bludger seems to think that Hanson winning is unlikely. Thank fuck
Both are bad. They're not equally bad though.
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