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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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Y

Yagharek

Member
SteveWinwood said:
rofl they straight up call them boat people holy shit
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Could be worse and call them queue jumpers.

edit: or 'baddies'

eFqvTLo.gif
 
D

Dead Man

Member
50,000 whole people. Lebanon and Jordan just got millions. For fucks sake.

DrSlek said:
Aren't most of these polls done via landline phones? That would effectively skew the results against younger voters, many of which do not have landline phones, but VoIP or mobiles instead.
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Yeah, but something like 1 in 5 young people isn't enrolled to vote anyway, so it probably balances out.
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Dead Man said:
50,000 whole people. Lebanon and Jordan just got millions. For fucks sake.
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What's particularly depressing is that anti-immigration is far removed from simply nationalist fearmongering (that every nation on Earth has to some degree), and instead a legitimate, effective political campaign receptive by a good percentage of the Australian population.

It shouldn't surprise me given how long it's been going on, but it does. Boat people, tax payer cost, fear the browns and asians. This is a thing.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
EatChildren said:
What's particularly depressing is that anti-immigration is far removed from simply nationalist fearmongering (that every nation on Earth has to some degree), and instead a legitimate, effective political campaign receptive by a good percentage of the Australian population.

It shouldn't surprise me given how long it's been going on, but it does. Boat people, tax payer cost, fear the browns and asians. This is a thing.
Click to expand...

Not directly related, or election related either, but I just saw a good piece from ABC Radio National about drownings of asylum seekers:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational.../asylum-seekers-drowning-on-our-watch/4916110
In June 2012, a 20-metre fishing boat codenamed the SIEV 358 sank halfway between Indonesia and Christmas Island. The boat was grossly overcrowded with more than 200 men and boys; mostly Pakistanis and Afghans fleeing the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Its passengers had made 16 calls for help to Australia's maritime safety authority over two days. Increasingly distressed callers said the boat was broken on one side and taking on water, and begged to be rescued.

But no help came. The boat was in Indonesia's search and rescue zone, which covers most of the ocean between Indonesia and Christmas Island, so Australia's maritime safety authority transferred responsibility to its Indonesian counterpart, BASARNAS.

Thirty-two hours after the first distress call was made, the man who made it—and 101 others—were dead.

Lawyer George Newhouse, who has worked on three coronial inquests into the sinking of asylum boats, says delegating to BASARNAS is unacceptable.

'How can a safety authority in good conscience hand over responsibility for saving people's lives to an organisation that they know is not capable of fulfilling that role?' he says.

Indonesia's BASARNAS office in West Java, which responds to boats in distress on the coastline commonly used by people smugglers, is hopelessly ill-equipped to conduct open sea rescues. The head of operations there, Rochmali, says all they have at their disposal are rubber boats and traditional fishing vessels, which can't go more than five nautical miles from shore.

Former diplomat Tony Kevin, who has been an outspoken critic of Australia's search and rescue authorities since 353 people drowned on the boat known as SIEVX, is more direct in his condemnation of Australia's maratime safety authority.

'What concerns me greatly now is the evidence of a systemic doctrine, particularly inside the Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA)—what you might call a systemic culture of skepticism of asylum seeker distress claims. A spirit of "We better wait and see what happens to this, if they're really in distress, because we know very often that they're not".'

AMSA strongly rejects this assertion from Tony Kevin. However, the question of when a call is deemed to be a genuine distress call was at the heart of a recent coronial inquest into the asylum seekers who died on the SIEV 358.
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In the dead of night on 17 December 2011, an asylum seeker boat called the Barokah left the coast of Java with around 250 men, women and children on board. One of them was ethnic Hazara man, Esmat Adine. The boat was so crowded, Adine couldn't even find a place to sit. The Barokah was just 40 nautical miles from Indonesia when it fell apart.
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Eight hours later, at 3 o'clock that afternoon, a passing fishing boat found around a hundred people in high seas, desperately clinging to debris. It was only able to rescue 34 people. Adine shouted to the people in the water, 'Be patient—we will bring you more boats, and they will rescue you.'

In Canberra that evening, Australian agencies became aware the Barokah had sunk. They told Indonesian authorities, because the boat was in their search and rescue zone.

Months later, customs officials would tell a Senate Estimates hearing that Indonesia had initially declined Australia's offer to help with the search and rescue.

But the official incident timeline, which Fairfax obtained under freedom information laws, revealed that BASARNAS, Indonesia's search and rescue agency, had asked AMSA to coordinate the rescue response—AMSA refused.

For two days, while men, women and children struggled to survive in waves up to six metres high, Indonesia and Australia did nothing.

Finally, on December 19, BASARNAS asked again for help. This time, AMSA agreed, and dispatched naval and Customs assets to the scene.

But it was too late. Two hundred and one people were dead.

In April this year, asylum seekers were again left to drown as AMSA and BASARNAS failed to collaborate efficiently. Reporting from Indonesia, ABC correspondent George Roberts said, 'All we've been able to find out so far—unless things have changed since late last night—AMSA wasn't helping yet or Australian authorities weren't helping yet and Indonesia hadn't launched its own search.'
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And then you read the comments on the article:

this is absolutely rediculous, why should Australia be held responsible because Indonesia fails to fulfill their role in the rescue. We are not responsible for every other country around us especially when these criminals use phone calls to say they are sinking purely as a way to get to our facilities easier for them. If these people knowingly get on shonky boats they know are not sea worthy then they are responsible for themselves and their families. Put the blame where it lies, the ones that are making a fortune out of these cashed up illegal backdoor scum and the ones getting on the boats willingly.
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The Indonesian navy is about three times the size of Australias navy. Why should Australia infringe on their area of responsibility to rescue persons in trouble when it is well known that the so called refugees use the sinking ploy to ensure safe passage to Australia.

Indonesia ignores the rescue responsibilities knowing that Australia will respond. We are again being stooged by Indonesia.
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:/ Drowning is now a ploy.
 
H

hirokazu

Member
EatChildren said:
What's particularly depressing is that anti-immigration is far removed from simply nationalist fearmongering (that every nation on Earth has to some degree), and instead a legitimate, effective political campaign receptive by a good percentage of the Australian population.

It shouldn't surprise me given how long it's been going on, but it does. Boat people, tax payer cost, fear the browns and asians. This is a thing.
Click to expand...
To me it seems like a certain majority of the people are begging for it and the political parties are just giving the people what they want.
 
W

wonzo

Banned
Fredescu said:
Regardless of the wording of his quotes, they still plan to cut spending heavily and lay off tens of thousands of employees.
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Oh don't get me wrong, there's no doubt they're gonna sack a shitload of public servants (and cause another mini-recession in Canberra like Howard did) but I doubt it'd be enough to capsize the economy. If they did though then they'd be voted out of office ASAP.
TriangleOfCorruption said:
I was under the impression that they recognise phone polls skew older and weight the results accordingly.
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Yeah, the demographics issue with landline phones isn't really that big an issue
EatChildren said:
What's particularly depressing is that anti-immigration is far removed from simply nationalist fearmongering (that every nation on Earth has to some degree), and instead a legitimate, effective political campaign receptive by a good percentage of the Australian population.

It shouldn't surprise me given how long it's been going on, but it does. Boat people, tax payer cost, fear the browns and asians. This is a thing.
Click to expand...
It's become a "legitimate issue" because it's a good way for some people to try and hide their latent racism and xenophobia under the guise of feigned-compassion for all the people drowning at sea.
 
F

Fredescu

Member
wonzo said:
Oh don't get me wrong, there's no doubt they're gonna sack a shitload of public servants (and cause another mini-recession in Canberra like Howard did) but I doubt it'd be enough to capsize the economy. If they did though then they'd be voted out of office ASAP.
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It could be, but a lot of predictions are saying that 2014 is going to be a good year regardless. Probably a good election to win. I don't share your faith in the electorate voting them out if they caused problems though.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
Fredescu said:
It could be, but a lot of predictions are saying that 2014 is going to be a good year regardless. Probably a good election to win. I don't share your faith in the electorate voting them out if they caused problems though.
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Given the margin they are predicted to win by, they'll probably be able to weather a complete failure at least once simply by blaming the previous Government.
 
S

shanshan310

Member
Dead Man said:
Not directly related, or election related either, but I just saw a good piece from ABC Radio National about drownings of asylum seekers:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational.../asylum-seekers-drowning-on-our-watch/4916110

And then you read the comments on the article:

:/ Drowning is now a ploy.
Click to expand...

I don't think I'm going to click that :/ the temptation to reply "fuck you!" to every comment would be too strong.

Elaugaufein said:
Given the margin they are predicted to win by, they'll probably be able to weather a complete failure at least once simply by blaming the previous Government.
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That seems to be the liberals "thing" huh.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Even France is laughing at us:
The conservative frontrunner to become Australia's next prime minister came under fire Sunday after describing the conflict in Syria as "baddies versus baddies", renewing criticism of his diplomatic credentials.

Tony Abbott, currently on track to win Australia's September 7 elections over centre-left Labor incumbent Kevin Rudd, described the conflict in Syria as a civil war "between two pretty unsavoury sides".

"It is not goodies versus baddies, it is baddies versus baddies and that is why it is very important that we don't make a very difficult situation worse," Abbott told ABC television Sunday morning.
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shanshan310 said:
I don't think I'm going to click that :/ the temptation to reply "fuck you!" to every comment would be too strong.



That seems to be the liberals "thing" huh.
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See, and here I was thinking that was reasonable reply to such stupid comments :)
 
H

hirokazu

Member
Dead Man said:
Even France is laughing at us:
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Call me thick, but I don't see the problem with the "baddies vs baddies" remark? I think Abbott is right that there's no good side in their civil war and he's just saying it like it is.

Does the Syrian government deserve to be punished for using chemical weapons on their civilians? Probably. Should the west step up as world police to carry out retaliation in the name of humanity? Possibly. Should we be aiding and arming the rebels? I don't think so.

The whole middle-east is a clusterfuck and we're best not to get involved. But we want to for diplomatic and economic gain.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
hirokazu said:
Call me thick, but I don't see the problem with the "baddies vs baddies" remark? I think Abbott is right that there's no good side in their civil war and he's just saying it like it is.

Does the Syrian government deserve to be punished for using chemical weapons on their civilians? Probably. Should the west step up as world police to carry out retaliation in the name of humanity? Possibly. Should we be aiding and arming the rebels? I don't think so.

The whole middle-east is a clusterfuck and we're best not to get involved. But we want to for diplomatic and economic gain.
Click to expand...

It is a twofold problem for me. Firstly, talk of baddies and goodies implies a rather simplistic world view, when there no 'goodies' or 'baddies' in the traditional sense. The opposing forces both have various factions, they are not all bad on either side. It demonstrates his utter inability to appreciate (publicly at least) nuance.

Secondly, it is another sign of his utter lack of ability to be articulate. He cannot seem to speak with a prepared speech in front of him without stammering like an idiot, complimenting a girl on her looks, or getting huffy and walking off.
 
F

Fredescu

Member
No doubt you'll be voting Greens then legend, since they have the most comprehensive housing affordability policy out of anyone.
 
L

legend166

Member
Their policy seems much more focused on homelessness and public housing. The only thing I can see that would have any impact on house prices in their policy is cutting the capital gains tax concession by 10%.
 
H

hirokazu

Member
Fredescu said:
Get used to hearing the word "mandate" a lot over the next 12 months. Starting now: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...-pledge-over-funding-hole-20130902-2t0fh.html
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I knew he was never serious about cutting greenhouse gas emissions or any other environmental initiatives. I expect him to come out and start denying human involvement in climate change again once he's PM.

But it's not a broken election promise if you promise to break it before winning office!
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Libs newest ad: Australian Election 2013 - Australian Labor Paty, ALP under Kevin Rudd and Julia Guillard

Fredescu said:
Get used to hearing the word "mandate" a lot over the next 12 months. Starting now: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...-pledge-over-funding-hole-20130902-2t0fh.html
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Why do politicians think it is unreasonable for the opposition to oppose them if their policies conflict?
legend166 said:
I wish either party had a policy to do something meaningful about affordable housing. Sick of investors.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/investors-push-back-into-housing-20130902-2t0gl.html
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Yeah, the real estate market is utterly busted. Negative gearing in particular needs to go.
 
F

Fredescu

Member
Dead Man said:
Why do politicians think it is unreasonable for the opposition to oppose them if their policies conflict?
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They don't actually think that, it's just what they say to put their opposition in a bad light. These guys blocked a corporate tax cut in the senate, and then proceeded to run it as an election promise. It's never about policy, just about making the other guy look bad.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Fredescu said:
They don't actually think that, it's just what they say to put their opposition in a bad light. These guys blocked a corporate tax cut in the senate, and then proceeded to run it as an election promise. It's never about policy, just about making the other guy look bad.
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Yeah, I guess my question should be, why do they think it is appropriate to act like fucking morons?
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
Fredescu said:
Get used to hearing the word "mandate" a lot over the next 12 months. Starting now: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-pol...902-2t0fh.html
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Plus a healthy dose of culture/history wars too:

Last week in launching his education policy, Mr Abbott's statement said the national curriculum had been “politicised”. Asked what he meant by that, the Opposition Leader said the Coalition was mostly referring to the history curriculum.

The national history curriculum lacked references to “our heritage, other than an indigenous heritage” and had too great a focus on “issues which are the predominant concern of one side of politics”.

“I think the unions are mentioned far more than business,” Mr Abbott added. “I think there are a couple of Labor prime ministers that get a mention, from memory not a single Coalition prime minister.”

But Mr Abbott assured educators he would not “directly dictate” his views to them, but would simply offer his advice.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...unding-hole-20130902-2t0fh.html#ixzz2diQawEi8
Click to expand...
 
V

viciouskillersquirrel

Member
Fredescu said:
The CGT discount is a pretty big deal. They're also investigating removing negative gearing: http://greensmps.org.au/content/questions-notice/impact-negative-gearing-housing-market

I thought they had added it to their platform, but it seems they haven't yet.
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The Democrats have it as part of their party platform. Of course, they have no chance of winning a single senate seat :(

Locally, I'm voting Greens, but I'm torn between voting for the Secular Party, Senate Online and the Democrats as number 1. Does the $2.30 from my senate vote only count for number 1?
 
L

legend166

Member
DrSlek said:
Isn't the LNP scrapping of the NBN going to drive up the price of houses that already have FTTP? I can see that happening.
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Eh I strongly doubt it. Demand is really not high enough for the NBN for it to have any significant impact on house prices.
 
S

senahorse

Member
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has confirmed categorically – for the first time – that he would break the Coalition's pledge on greenhouse reduction targets if it cost more money than he had budgeted for.
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Goddammit I feel so helpless, this guy, THIS FUCKING GUY...
 
S

senahorse

Member
DrSlek said:
Is that the "our plan" thing?

Because I think it's in there, but there's mention of privatizing it.
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From here:

For all the ferocity with which Tony Abbott’s Liberals have attacked Labor’s NBN, you would think they perceive it to be an incredibly important issue. Turns out the Liberals perceive it as so unimportant that it doesn’t even rate in the party’s list of six key priorities.

After perusing official Liberal Party campaign material – which was this week dropped in the letterbox of everyone living in Andrew Robb’s federal electorate of Goldstein – this is the only conclusion I can reach.

“The six key priorities of the next Liberal Government”, the headline on the four-page brochure says above a picture of those who would be our overlords come September 8. There’s Malcolm Turnbull, right at the end off the table next to Robb – who is, remember, shadow finance minister and chairman of the Coalition Policy Development Committee – and Joe Hockey, Tony Abbott, Julie Bishop and Warren Truss.


While shadow communications minister Turnbull has a seat at the table, his would-be ministry wasn’t so lucky: there is not a single mention of the NBN or broadband, not even in the usual pejorative Labor-stinks-and-we’ll-do-the-NBN-better sense, anywhere throughout the four pages of Liberal Party propaganda.
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http://www.zdnet.com/apparently-the-nbn-is-no-longer-a-liberal-election-priority-7000020054/
 
J

Jintor

Member
Leigh Sales pressuring Mr Abbott now on ABC. Apparently the right time to release your full policies and costings is as late as possible in the election cycle. Why? Who knows. I suspect so nobody analyses it and calls bullshit in time. Look at the record. Under the last coalition government...
 
D

DrSlek

Member
Jintor said:
Leigh Sales pressuring Mr Abbott now on ABC. Apparently the right time to release your full policies and costings is as late as possible in the election cycle. Why? Who knows. I suspect so nobody analyses it and calls bullshit in time. Look at the record. Under the last coalition government...
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From memory, this is generally the way it's always done. They often release the costings in the last week before the election, or right after the election. Labor is guilty of doing it too, I think.

Shady stuff.
 
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