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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?
- Thread starter Bernbaum
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Question is though, are those people who think they're "too soft" (or anything, for that matter) passionate about it enough for it to influence their voting? I guess that's a question to be raised across all respondents and not just those in that category.
Thing is, so many people think they're too soft because both parties are drumming up the same (or similar) hate-mongering campaign against asylum seekers. If there was a major (sorry Greens) party dispelling the rumours and actively educating people on the positives and negatives of accepting people onto our shores, then I think the balance of that aforementioned poll would be quite different, rather than have it swing so firmly in favor of "stopping the boats".
But with such an apathetic "opposition" who don't even do as much as the Abbott-led Libs last election in drumming up support, what option is there?
Labor gets preferences from the ones that vote Green because they're too harsh. They get nothing from the ones that vote Lib because they're too soft.
I take your point that the numbers will be strongly influenced by which party is in power and what they're saying about it.
Elaugaufein
Member
I'd love to know if that too soft includes the conditions in the off shore processing centres which get very little mainstream coverage. If it does then its time to pack up and go home because you're more likely to get an Australian equivalent of a Neo-Nazi/Ku Klux Klan political party than any meaningful improvement in that area. If it doesn't you may be able to achieve something at least useful.
Keane's argument is largely pretty solid politically (except for the disingeniousness about Sphere of Influence regarding boat turnbacks, there's always been a significant difference between actions naturally taking place outside of a countries region and performing actions that directly lead to those events).
Keane's argument is largely pretty solid politically (except for the disingeniousness about Sphere of Influence regarding boat turnbacks, there's always been a significant difference between actions naturally taking place outside of a countries region and performing actions that directly lead to those events).
Nothing as detailed as that. I've done a few Essential polls. The questions and answers will be exactly as you see at the link. ie
"Q. Do you think the Federal Liberal/National Government is too tough or too soft on asylum seekers or is it taking the right approach?"
1. Too tough
2. Too soft
3. Taking the right approach
4. Don't know
I think it's fair to say that you could improve conditions at offshore processing centers without too much political fallout.
Elaugaufein
Member
I more meant in the minds of the respondents. Which is admittedly pretty much impossible to know unless the media environment is saturated, which it really isn't on that issue.
I'm not sure that's quite what I was saying (maybe it was), but I'm picturing a cycle something like this:
1. Australian general public is aging, harbors a lot of unfounded old-school racist resentment from the baby boomer period.
2. Government cashes in on this, starts fear-mongering so as to be seen as doing something.
3. Opposition sees this is working, so rather than use the opportunity to educate the public, just go with the flow.
4. Meanwhile, both older and younger generations doesn't know better and public being public, can't be fucked actually learning anything.
5. Goto 2.
But jesus, 12% of Greens supporters still thinking "too soft"? WTF.
The biggest problem is clearly with step 3. You'd expect that an opposition would have some gumption to stand up and take the moral high ground regardless of public opinion, maybe even use the platform to inform voters. So it's not so much the numbers being influenced by the party in power (well it is, but not entirely) but also the lack of any effort by the opposition to tell the public they don't have to believe it.
There's a point in there somewhere, I think. Let me know if you find it
I'll gladly accept the estimate the the majority of Australians are racist misanthropes.
Militarisation of the department of immigration: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nat...-exodus-in-three-decades-20150723-gidnhv.html
"Insiders have complained about the management style of the new regime and there has been unhappiness from veteran public servants forced to wear the military-style Australian Border Force uniform to work each day after a lifetime of civilian service."
"Insiders have complained about the management style of the new regime and there has been unhappiness from veteran public servants forced to wear the military-style Australian Border Force uniform to work each day after a lifetime of civilian service."
It annoys me that those people will never be in a situation where they need to flee the country and get turned away by people they thought were their friends.
Someone really needs to get Abbott a new copy of "How to Not Run a Country" I get the feeling his copy is so old some of the words have rubbed off the cover.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2015/s4279102.htm
its almost as if the libs will shift even further to the right on asylum seekers (or anything) whenever labor capitulates to them
its almost as if the libs will shift even further to the right on asylum seekers (or anything) whenever labor capitulates to them
kinda weird that the libs hardball policies have driven people smugglers out of business apparently yet we have more people in detention for far longer than ever before
that's weird
//edit it's also weird how something in excess of 90% of all arrivals are granted protection status
that's weird
//edit it's also weird how something in excess of 90% of all arrivals are granted protection status
That answer Dutton gives on the Mediterranean situation is priceless. They've failed because there are a lot of boats in the water. As though, I dunno, countries in Europe should be somehow stopping people fleeing from ISIS and Syria et al in any way they can. Maybe they should send their armies to burn all the boats between Malta and Cairo. Or just staple the refugees down somewhere so they don't try and flee for their lives.
On the other hand, it does really show they don't give a shit about saving lives, and in a pretty typical fashion believe the correct platform for Australia actually handling the global refugee issue is;
Actually, when you think about it broadly, that phrase describes a scary amount of their policy as a government.
Dealing with Australians who go fight for ISIS? Can't someone else do it?
Repair the "debt emergency"? Can't someone else do it?
Help out with the ebola crisis? Can't someone else do it?
Deal with climate change? Can't someone else do it?
Deal with the Senate? Can't someone else do it?
Do something about domestic abuse? Can't someone else do it?
Hold a vote on marriage equality? Can't someone else do it?
GST reform? Can't someone else do it?
Like paying them off, for example.
On the other hand, it does really show they don't give a shit about saving lives, and in a pretty typical fashion believe the correct platform for Australia actually handling the global refugee issue is;
Actually, when you think about it broadly, that phrase describes a scary amount of their policy as a government.
Dealing with Australians who go fight for ISIS? Can't someone else do it?
Repair the "debt emergency"? Can't someone else do it?
Help out with the ebola crisis? Can't someone else do it?
Deal with climate change? Can't someone else do it?
Deal with the Senate? Can't someone else do it?
Do something about domestic abuse? Can't someone else do it?
Hold a vote on marriage equality? Can't someone else do it?
GST reform? Can't someone else do it?
Like paying them off, for example.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/anthony-albanese-criticises-bill-shortens-handling-of-boat-turnbacks-policy-20150723-gij9xm.html
Please challenge Albo.
Latest Morgan poll however has Tanya Plibersek as preferred leader with both ALP and non-ALP voters.
Please challenge Albo.
Latest Morgan poll however has Tanya Plibersek as preferred leader with both ALP and non-ALP voters.
Arguably this issue at the national conference is as good as a leadership challenge.
If Shorten can't get this up then surely he must resign in favour of Plibersek.
I really wish Sportsbet had odds on the ALP National Conference adopting this policy as it would be the best way to gauge the chances of this happening.
albo will never win the leadership
I remember seeing an Australian version of this in this thread.
Anyone got a link?
albo will never win the leadership
Brilliant.
I love the continual cries for new Labor leaders. First it was Beazley then Latham then please challenge Rudd then Albo and Plibersek. Throw all hats in the ring; it still won't change the fact that the party has become right wing.
nofunallowed.gif.
D.Lo
Member
Help us Albo Wan Kenobi. You're our only hope.
Pilbersek is a policy-weak weathervane.
Beazley, Crean (forgot him), Latham, Rudd and Gillard were all axed because they were incapable (or in Rudd's case perceived to be incapable) of winning an election.
[citation needed]
sounds like a good fit for the alp leadership then
Oh look, its an interesting exercise I'll grant you that. The difference is the expectations of what the exercise is about. I maintain it is all about finding out who will instil in the new generation a distinct sense of disappointment.
Better to go with someone who is already a previous major letdown rather than let someone promising fool you into optimism.
shanshan310
Member
I remember seeing an Australian version of this in this thread.
Anyone got a link?
I found this one but I don't think it's the original, I've seen a better different one before. This one wasn't funny like the US one.
http://4chandata.org/sci/An-Austral...s-on-Mohammed-Abderrahman-known-Terro-a325269
I kinda think Albo is in a similar situation to Turnbull. They're popular with the public, but don't have enough clout inside the party to get or maintain the leadership. Their local constituency agrees more with their personal views than the views of the rest of party, so they have to speak up to keep their electorate onside. The main difference is Albo is a much bigger chance of losing his seat. There is no Arksy United classical liberal party for people to protest vote to if Turnbull doesn't influence the party platform enough.
Elaugaufein
Member
Are you suggesting we should crowdfund a political party for Arksy ?
Albo polls worse than Shorten or Plibersek.
You guys need to wake up and realise the Albo dream is dead.
He probably supports Shorten since right now there is no other alternative, since no one is actually challenging yet.
But my guess is that he would support Plibersek out of those three.
Latest Morgan has him ahead of Shorten, but both behind Plibersek.
D.Lo
Member
Albo's just been out of the spotlight. Bowen is more visible at the moment even, because he gets to talk about how dumb Hockey is with his portfolio.
Pilbersek is current deputy and made the noise about conscience vote on gay marriage.
Give Australia Albo as an option and he'll kill it. He has principled opinions, comes across as both an Aussie bro and as a smart dude. He's one of the few politicians who wears footy gear and doesn't look like a rich shit pretending to be working class.
Pilbersek is current deputy and made the noise about conscience vote on gay marriage.
Give Australia Albo as an option and he'll kill it. He has principled opinions, comes across as both an Aussie bro and as a smart dude. He's one of the few politicians who wears footy gear and doesn't look like a rich shit pretending to be working class.
bobnowhere
Member
I think part of it is that Albo has almost disappeared from the stage since losing against Blib. Out of mind, out of sight.
Elaugaufein
Member
Which was smart. Its kept any media muckracking about potential spills to a minimum. Which was definitely necessary.
Candescence
Member
Labor conference is happening. Shorten got booed when he mentioned immigration policy in his speech.
So far, the policies have been pretty great, though they're all economic. Tearing down or at least grandfathering negative gearing and capital gains tax concessions, tearing ISDS provisions out of trade agreements (if not de-ratifying certain agreements entirely), and Albo proposed a tax "buffet rule" on the highest incomes ("which requires very high income earners to pay at least a minimum average rate of tax on their total income, thereby ensuring that these very high income earners can not end up paying a lower average rate of tax than low and middle income earners"), which was overwhelmingly supported by the conference.
Also, Penny Wong took a shot at the Libs when it came to Andrew Robb's insistence that the government won’t change a word of the China FTA. "They are throwing a tantrum, frankly."
So far, the policies have been pretty great, though they're all economic. Tearing down or at least grandfathering negative gearing and capital gains tax concessions, tearing ISDS provisions out of trade agreements (if not de-ratifying certain agreements entirely), and Albo proposed a tax "buffet rule" on the highest incomes ("which requires very high income earners to pay at least a minimum average rate of tax on their total income, thereby ensuring that these very high income earners can not end up paying a lower average rate of tax than low and middle income earners"), which was overwhelmingly supported by the conference.
Also, Penny Wong took a shot at the Libs when it came to Andrew Robb's insistence that the government won’t change a word of the China FTA. "They are throwing a tantrum, frankly."
I gotta say on the one hand I have a violent gut reaction to any mentions of government theft..I mean tax. On the other hand, richer people shouldn't really be paying less tax than lower or middle income earners. They usually do pay more and the buffet rule won't affect as many as people would think but it's not actually an instrument of progressive taxation, just flat taxation so I don't really have a problem with it.
Built any roads, hospitals, schools or bought any submarines lately?
Is worse than Morrison frankly.
Hope they like being judged by the ICC instead.
But it was a question from the Asylum Seeker Resource Centres Pamela Curr that proved most difficult for Richard Marles.
There is a reign of terror on Nauru against the unaccompanied Somali women who are living in the community. And every night they dread having invasions into their home. They are being raped night after night.
Last night a Somali woman rang Australia begging for help, with three men bashing the door down armed with knives. What are you and the Labor Party going to do? she asked.
Her reaction to Marles response said it all.
Marles didnt address her question about how Labor would ensure the safety of women released into the community, choosing to speak instead about the government halting construction of accommodation on the island and warned against demonising the people of Papua New Guinea and Nauru.
how this piece of human excrement became a labor shadow frontbencher is bey- oh
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