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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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D

danm999

Member
A More Normal Bird said:
As a strong advocate of the Government burying money and paying people to dig it up to stimulate the economy, I can't wait to hear what's coming on this front. Either a vote goes ahead because it must be the will of the people, or it doesn't because it'd be too expensive, but either way they'll be saying that in the case of this policy - which can be enacted solely by elected representatives and which any statistician would confidently say has majority public support - it's absolutely essential that hundreds of millions be spent to run a plebiscite or referendum, "more pressing issues" and budget emergencies be damned.
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Whatever the messaging I can't imagine many Australians will be thrilled to be dragged to the polls for an issue the majority consider something that should already be handled.

This issue somehow combines the government's general lack of direction and decisiveness and poor leadership with its inability to understand the wishes of the public.

It's like the perfect desert to the shit sandwich that was Choppergate.
 
A

Arksy

Member
A More Normal Bird said:
As a strong advocate of the Government burying money and paying people to dig it up to stimulate the economy, I can't wait to hear what's coming on this front. Either a vote goes ahead because it must be the will of the people, or it doesn't because it'd be too expensive, but either way they'll be saying that in the case of this policy - which can be enacted solely by elected representatives and which any statistician would confidently say has majority public support - it's absolutely essential that hundreds of millions be spent to run a plebiscite or referendum, "more pressing issues" and budget emergencies be damned.
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If our political system is deadlocked on an issue, I have no problem with the issue being sent to the people....the issue is that the political system SHOULDN'T be deadlocked in this instance in particular....this is fairly cut and dry...the majority overwhelmingly support this policy.
 
D

danm999

Member
Arksy said:
If our political system is deadlocked on an issue, I have no problem with the issue being sent to the people....the issue is that the political system SHOULDN'T be deadlocked in this instance in particular....this is fairly cut and dry...the majority overwhelmingly support this policy.
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Indeed. Referendums should not be used to absolve politicians of making decisions that they don't want to for political reasons.
 
Q

Quasar

Member
I guess its interesting that the 60% fear that a vote would pass so they are unwilling to even let a free vote happen and potentially fail.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
Quasar said:
I guess its interesting that the 60% fear that a vote would pass so they are unwilling to even let a free vote happen and potentially fail.
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From my back of the envelope maths (and that half those who wanted a conscience vote weren't for) , there's at least a few who are nominally in favour who voted for the party line against vote. Not sure what the game is there. There's 4 main potential reasons I can see
1) Actively trying to cause leadership issues. (Moronic. Especially given how they came to power. So unlikely)
2) Trying to keep party cohesion so if the party room makes the other decision you don't get splitters. (Will matter around 2025 at the earliest (and more like 2250 if the Nationals are involved and they'd split over this anyway)). So also unlikely.
3) Are personally in favour but don't want to rock the boat for part members in more conservative seats. (Maybe? Probably some horse trading going on if its this.)
4) Have already decided that this isn't worth spending political capital on because they'll lose the next election and can get the house in order at that time. (Maybe ? )

There's also the possibility that some people are just flat out lieing about their position to the public or party room.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
It baffles me how the LNP convinced itself that they should take bigots fears about their beliefs being ignored to have a higher value than equality of social rights.

That senator fiorina ciabata whatever is a hatemonger.
 
F

Fredescu

Member
Arksy said:
I don't see an issue. Dude isn't a judge anymore.
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He seems to:

CMQElNUUAAEvEmE.jpg
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Edit: He returned quickly, after cancelling his attendance.
 
A

Arksy

Member
Witch hunt? Labor talking points much? The RC has found absolute widespread corruption in almost every single union it's investigated aside from the SDA. So much so that several union bosses have had to step down and are pending criminal charges. Unlike most people on my side, I don't have a fundamental issue with unions, people banding together to fight for their rights should be encouraged, but the union movement as it stands has now been found to be one of the most repugnant and corrupt elements within our society.

Edit: Not so much directed at you, I've been hearing witch hunt by ALP sources all morning and I think it's ridiculous.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
Clean unions are necessary but this investigation has a strong whiff of targeting ex labor MPs.

Maybe if the business lobby groups had ethical standards to maintain they could investigate them after the next govt change.
 
A

Arksy

Member
Yagharek said:
Clean unions are necessary but this investigation has a strong whiff of targeting ex labor MPs.

Maybe if the business lobby groups had ethical standards to maintain they could investigate them after the next govt change.
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Bring on a royal corruption into business lobbying groups as well, if there is corruption it should be flushed out with gusto.
 
F

Fredescu

Member
Arksy said:
the union movement as it stands has now been found to be one of the most repugnant and corrupt elements within our society.
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Care to back that up? There have been a couple of arrests, and some bribes uncovered in the tens of thousands. I won't defend these, but everything has seemed fairly small fry at the moment. Certainly nothing to justify the tens of millions spent on the investigation. No class of organisation is free from corruption, but your quote seems fairly hyperbolic compared to the findings so far.
 
C

Candescence

Member
The unions royal commission hasn't actually uncovered much of substance. They couldn't even get any real dirt on Shorten that is any worse than anything the rest of parliament is guilty of.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
Fredescu said:
Care to back that up? There have been a couple of arrests, and some bribes uncovered in the tens of thousands. I won't defend these, but everything has seemed fairly small fry at the moment. Certainly nothing to justify the tens of millions spent on the investigation. No class of organisation is free from corruption, but your quote seems fairly hyperbolic compared to the findings so far.
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Government spending millions on investigating something that is only worth maybe thousands? Doesn't sound like our government at all.
 
D

danm999

Member
I do not understand why Liberal party fundraiser aren't being extremely careful in who attends after the Bishop incident.

Edit; seems the defence Brandis is going for on this is that it wasn't a "signficant" Liberal party fundraiser, even though there is a mention that donations made at the event would have to be disclosed if they went over the state donation limit (which is $12,100 in NSW), and the invitation apparently says ""All proceeds from this event will be applied to state election campaigning,".

Are we watching another slow motion car crash were the initial scandal is eclipsed by how poorly its subsequently handled?
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
So far, as far as I'm aware, there have only been 2 arrests both within the CFMEU in the ACT. One for bribery and another for perjury. 40mil or so an arrest? Couldn't have this been handled by the AFP perhaps?

Just like the "Pink Batts" RC for something that has already investigated multiple times at multiple levels, the Union RC is just an exercise in politics. Attack Julia Gillard for what? Questionable choice in men? Mildly tardy professional reporting? If she hadn't been an ex-Labor PM but just another citizen would she have been called to testify? Hint: Of course she wouldn't have.

Then it was Bill's chance. All it came down to was something to do with a Mushroom farm and the fact that he negotiated some conditions away to keep people employed. Now normally a union boss negotiating with an employer would give Abbott and co. a raging hard-on, but no this time he's a terrible person screwing honest Aussies out of cash.

Ok, the other part of Bill's appearance to do with failing to declare a donation was dumb. Is that it? Wouldn't a Federal ICAC be better placed to deal with that. Maybe they should start one instead of voting against it time and time again while holding hands with the ALP.

And now today, just another example that this government only works to improve there own standing, not the people. How on earth no one thought this wouldn't be viewed as bias is beyond me.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Next Election:

Entsh - In big trouble
Roy - In big trouble
Gambaro - Goneski
Griggs - Super duper gonski
Hogan - Who? Gone as well.
Smith - Well he's in the senate so it really depends on where he is on the ticket. If he's a backbencher, it'll be 2-3 at max.

A few are probably now brave enough to make a stand if they see oblivion coming. For all the noise they make about allowing members to cross the floor, it only seems to happen to people who oddly enough are retiring at the next election or are going to be retired by the electorate. They say you can, but it's probably not good for your career.
 
H

hidys

Member
bobnowhere said:
Next Election:

Entsh - In big trouble
Roy - In big trouble
Gambaro - Goneski
Griggs - Super duper gonski
Hogan - Who? Gone as well.
Smith - Well he's in the senate so it really depends on where he is on the ticket. If he's a backbencher, it'll be 2-3 at max.

A few are probably now brave enough to make a stand if they see oblivion coming. For all the noise they make about allowing members to cross the floor, it only seems to happen to people who oddly enough are retiring at the next election or are going to be retired by the electorate. They say you can, but it's probably not good for your career.
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Even more so the ones you have as in big trouble would be goneski if the sitting members were replaced.
 
D

danm999

Member
Quasar said:
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/...-court-iinet-piracy-case-20150813-giyyd7.html

Well that's something at least.

And really what a shock that the judge would call the sums 'substantial'. We all knew they would not be satisfied with actual reasonable amounts.
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Yeah, they'll give up I'm betting.

They'll never recoup their legal costs and whatever they deem to the cost of the download to be given in a way that will satisfy the court given there are only under 5000 offenders, and if they try to speculatively invoice they'll be forgoing the $600,000 bond, just makes it harder and opening them up to more legal morass.

Sounds like Judge Perram has had enough of their shit.
 
D

danm999

Member
When dislike for the Federal government is overcoming the stink of the state branch of the NSW Labor Party you know it's gotten bad for the government.
 
J

JC Sera

Member
New whistleblower stuff

'It's child abuse': Australian doctor brought to tears by treatment of Nauru detainees
"I saw a six-year-old girl who tried to hang herself with a fence tie and had marks around her neck. I've never seen a child self-harm of that age before," Dr Isaacs told ABC's 7.30.
"After five days, I went home and had nightmares. I didn't expect that.
"I didn't expect to be so, um, traumatised by these people's trauma. These are people, ordinary people and we're treating them with, um - sorry, we're treating them with incredible cruelty," he said, clearly shaken and upset.
"It's child abuse. Putting children in detention is child abuse. So, our Government is abusing children in our name," he said.
Click to expand...
 
H

hidys

Member
I don't think Dyson Heydon will resign.

But it is a huge blow to the credibility of the Commission and I imagine a lot of people compelled to testify will call him on his bullshit.
 
D

Dryk

Member
Quasar said:
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/...-court-iinet-piracy-case-20150813-giyyd7.html

Well that's something at least.

And really what a shock that the judge would call the sums 'substantial'. We all knew they would not be satisfied with actual reasonable amounts.
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Good to see the courts standing up to speculative invoicing.

Also if I'm reading this correctly they want to count seeding as additional stolen copies. So they want to charge both the person who uploaded and the person who downloaded for the same "copy". What?
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Dryk said:
Good to see the courts standing up to speculative invoicing.

Also if I'm reading this correctly they want to count seeding as additional stolen copies. So they want to charge both the person who uploaded and the person who downloaded for the same "copy". What?
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I think the judge called them on a few dodgy math tricks. First they wanted compensation for the download and then for uploads to others, presumably other Australians, in the swarm. Then they wanted compensation for other properties the accused were also downloading. How they knew what else these people were downloading is interesting and pretty much shows "The Dallas Buyers Club" is just a front for the MPAA and RIAA. The judge of course thought both were stupid.

I was about to mention what the judge said about Jolly Rogers and the fact that even he thought that not everyone who downloads is a lost sale. That part is now missing from the article and has now been replaced by

"...the idea that DBC's damages should equal the value of what was taken from it without its permission is not, self-evidently, a ridiculous claim and, indeed, has a certain biblical charm,"
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I wonder why the change?
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
Its probably worth noting that currently these are unsubstantiated allegations. Its pretty pathetic that there's no proper inspection/investigation regime in place though since these are the kinds of things that need to be resolved quickly.
 
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