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[JC Sera]

Not sure about that. The issue is male violence against women and children. I think saying "it happens to men too" just obscures the real problem.

Did you not catch my 10-20%

edit: now that I think about its also really disingenuous on another front aswell
It discounts verbal abuse, financial abuse, sexual abuse, isolation tactics and stalking. The last one is super important, and the reason we need better intervention orders, cause even if you get an DV victim out of the relationship, the other party often will continue to harass them.

 

[Fredescu]

Did you not catch my 10-20%

Yeah, so I think if the headline is addressing 80-90% of the problem it's not too bad. I do get your point though, focusing on married couples is needlessly specific, so I'm probably being argumentative.

edit:

edit: now that I think about its also really disingenuous on another front aswell
It discounts verbal abuse, financial abuse, sexual abuse, isolation tactics and stalking. The last one is super important, and the reason we need better intervention orders, cause even if you get an DV victim out of the relationship, the other party often will continue to harass them.

That's another reason why I think the "keep them at home" focus is a bit dodgy. Sometimes they will want to go where they know he can't find them.

 

[JC Sera]

Yeah, so I think if the headline is addressing 80-90% of the problem it's not too bad. I do get your point though, focusing on married couples is needlessly specific, so I'm probably being argumentative.

the headline only covers physical male on female spousal abuse
how many times have you heard "he doesn't hit me, so he's not abusive"

it just gets me so pissy
the fact that DV got boiled down to "Wife bashing is not ok" 20-30 (IIRC, feel free to correct me when that started) years ago, was great for a social movement in the right direction back then but has stunted us in modern day
One of the main reasons DV has gotten so insidious is that we can only see it as "Wife bash" and nothing else

so super important for us to teach consent & red flags of abuse
or we end up with someone going to police and they say "well they didn't hit you madam, not much we can do"or "well are you sure your gf is capable of hurting you sir?"

I remembered why I dont talk about DV

 

[Fredescu]

All good points. I'm not sure a focus on male violence necessarily diminishes those things though, does it? Getting law enforcement to do better in the face of other types of abuse definitely seems like an uphill battle. All the recent attention on online harassment has made that pretty clear.

On a personal level male violence is an enigma to me. I know and can identify in myself times when I have strong impulse to be violent. In those times I have the knowledge of myself that I have to remove myself from the situation. This involves questioning your own impulses in a high stress situation. I know many people who do not question their impulses, but rather justify their impulses to themselves as necessarily correct.

Combine these two factors, impulse to violence, and unquestioning trust in your own impulses, and you get domestic violence. I have no idea how common the first factor is. Perhaps I'm just uniquely mentally ill to experience it. I know the second factor is incredibly common. I think any sort of "awareness campaign" has to be addressing these factors or it will just keep happening. I have no idea how to address these factors.

 

[JC Sera]

All good points. I'm not sure a focus on male violence necessarily diminishes those things though, does it? Getting law enforcement to do better in the face of other types of abuse definitely seems like an uphill battle. All the recent attention on online harassment has made that pretty clear.

On a personal level male violence is an enigma to me. I know and can identify in myself times when I have strong impulse to be violent. In those times I have the knowledge of myself that I have to remove myself from the situation. This involves questioning your own impulses in a high stress situation. I know many people who do not question their impulses, but rather justify their impulses to themselves as necessarily correct.

Combine these two factors, impulse to violence, and unquestioning trust in your own impulses, and you get domestic violence. I have no idea how common the first factor is. Perhaps I'm just uniquely mentally ill to experience it. I know the second factor is incredibly common. I think any sort of "awareness campaign" has to be addressing these factors or it will just keep happening. I have no idea how to address these factors.

its ok I'm being kinda anal about this
its more theres been
a rise of new abuses
well not new they always existed, we've just been recognising them as abuse with in the last 2 decades. (Also I forgot to mention gaslighting before as an aside)
the thing is you can have someone die to an abusive partner, without them ever getting physical before the death. This is something thats been on the rise for a long time. The other abuses I have listed are red flags of this end scenario. However the only one we recognise as a culture is physical abuse. And its this stupidly narrow view of what DV is, is fucking us over in our ability to help.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-02/domestic-violence-intervention-orders-being-violated/6369336
Even if a victim does manage to get their abuse recognised by court & police and gets an intervention order, the intervention order itself is a fucking joke
and the violations of it aren't recognised, because they are usually not physical violence. And then the abuser get the idea they can do what ever the fuck they want.

 

[Fredescu]

Some details:

 

[JC Sera]

Some details:

Everything is great except the lack of shelters
on that note fuck the safe in your home thing, if its the trade off

 

[A More Normal Bird]

Opinions about this? What would something like this look like? Is this a cop out to not fund womens shelters?

Staying Home Leaving Violence and Going Home, Staying Home are pretty well regarded programs that have been running in NSW for a number of years. Obviously it puts the stigma and onus to change onto the perpetrator, provides stability to children etc... there may be instances where a victim or family of victims may feel the need to leave, for reasons of personal or financial security. On the other hand, if they remain in the home it is easier for police and other services to monitor and respond and it's not like creeps don't track people to shelters, hang around, put tracking devices on cars, toys etc...

On the question of it being a cop-out to not fund shelters, with the Liberals I feel that's a legitimate concern. I've mentioned this a number of times in this thread because it's an absolute travesty, but the NSW government basically destroyed the state's network of shelters. Long-standing local services run by experienced individuals were either shut down or turned over to the big (largely faith based) end of the sector, with predictably disastrous results. Even if the services were fully restored under new operation it would have been a pointless interruption to service provision, but of course that's not what happened. Large organisations underbid existing services and/or deploy teams from corporate to win tenders. They then employ the cheapest, most inexperienced people they can find with no integration with local networks. They claim they weren't aware of what they were tendering for and ask for more money to deliver the service. In lieu of actually doing what they were contracted to, they refer to other organisations, now under-funded and overstretched. DV shelters become generic homeless referral centres. The government responds to complaints by saying that it takes time for these services to get up and running, as though nothing had come before them.

Fast forward a year and everyone is talking about good guy Mike Baird putting domestic violence on his list of key priorities and talking about how Turnbull could be a federal Baird; a Liberal with a social conscience who isn't afraid to put his money where his mouth is.

 

[Yagharek]

@ A More Normal Bird - you seem to have had some experience dealing with these kinds of organisations, at least enough to know how they operate with regards to funding.

It's apparently quite a common tactic in other similar fields of care.

 

[Yagharek]

thanks

also jeezus christ "wife bash" like lets ignore that 10-20% of the problem with DV is that it can happen to anyone: husband, wife, gf, bf, defacto, straight & SS-relationship.

Not sure about that. The issue is male violence against women and children. I think saying "it happens to men too" just obscures the real problem.

In general there needs to be a concerted effort on multiple levels.

First is to make violence against family and loved ones unacceptable, regardless of relationship type or genders involved.

There indisputably needs to be work done in the following specific areas for example:

DV against wives and children (re recent news events)
DV by women against children (re post natal depression triggered events)
De-stigmatising violence by women against men as being trivial
Elder abuse, esp. elderly people with dementia

I'm sure there are easily dozens of categories, and all should be addressed. Far more damaging events are happening here than anything that seems to attract anti-terrorist funding by the truckload.

 

[JC Sera]

In general there needs to be a concerted effort on multiple levels.

First is to make violence against family and loved ones unacceptable, regardless of relationship type or genders involved.

There indisputably needs to be work done in the following specific areas for example:

DV against wives and children (re recent news events)
DV by women against children (re post natal depression triggered events)
De-stigmatising violence by women against men as being trivial
Elder abuse, esp. elderly people with dementia

I'm sure there are easily dozens of categories, and all should be addressed. Far more damaging events are happening here than anything that seems to attract anti-terrorist funding by the truckload.

Oh geeze I completely forgot about that one
nice catch

 

[wonzo]

https://medium.com/@jasonchatfield/border-farce-6a0bbf3cdc3d

 

[Rubixcuba]

Great read wonzo, this part but, pure 'Strya:

The phone conversation between Border Force and Homeland Security concluded with Homeland telling Border Force to -and I quote- “calm down.”

 

[danm999]

Probably a few disgruntled blokes in the Border Force who thought they were going to get to hassle foreign looking people on the streets but the Farce and the ReTurnbull have put an end to all that.

 

[Dryk]

https://medium.com/@jasonchatfield/border-farce-6a0bbf3cdc3d

Great, now Australian officials are apparently as bad as the laughing stock that is the TSA

 

[Yagharek]

I love this.

 

[darkace]

I like how he didn't deliver on a single one of his promises on the economy.

 

[Dryk]

I love this.

I like how most of what they've actually achieved falls into either repealing Labor's legislation or commissioning reviews

 

[DrSlek]

I'm glad were approaching this issue with the sensitivity it deserves.

Wow....cool headline, Telegraph.

 

[wonzo]

w ell shit… the dangers of ~alternative music~ for all to see

 

[Arksy]

Quelle fucking surprise about hallal.

 

[darkace]

w ell shit… the dangers of ~alternative music~ for all to see

First it was alternative music, then she was an environmental activist, and now she's a unionist! Always keep your car radio set to 2GB, kids.

 

[r1chard]

Quelle fucking surprise about hallal.

Eh?

 

[Arksy]

Can't link very easily on mobile atm, but apparently Bernadi's inquiry into Hallal found zero links to terrorist groups.

The resultant QQ is hilarious though, especially from my good mate (*cough*) Christensen who said that the counter terrorist branches of government didn't bother investigating properly or something equally dumb.

 

[Jintor]

Can't link very easily on mobile atm, but apparently Bernadi's inquiry into Hallal found zero links to terrorist groups.

The resultant QQ is hilarious though, especially from my good mate (*cough*) Christensen who said that the counter terrorist branches of government didn't bother investigating properly or something equally dumb.

i know you already said it's dumb but I want to reiterate how great and wonderful it is that if your inquisitors can't find anything than it's obviously a failure of the inquisition rather than, let's say, the possibility that there's nothing to finnnnnnddddddddd

 

[bobnowhere]

Can't link very easily on mobile atm, but apparently Bernadi's inquiry into Hallal found zero links to terrorist groups.

The resultant QQ is hilarious though, especially from my good mate (*cough*) Christensen who said that the counter terrorist branches of government didn't bother investigating properly or something equally dumb.

There was a good Four-corners on Halal 3ish weeks ago. Their results were pretty much the same. Yes some people are in it for the cash but they are not supporting terrorism just themselves, what business isn't in it for the cash? The head of the anti-halal movement was a bit like Christensen/Bernardi, despite ASIO, Australian Financial investigators and everyone else saying there are no links of course they didn't believe them.

"There must be" because the man in the hat in charge believes it to be the case and no actual evidence will sate him. He was also the sort of guy who wears a hat indoors, you know the type!

 

[Arksy]

Amazing.

Edit: God damn it screen capture, sorry for the size.

 

[Fredescu]

w ell shit… the dangers of ~alternative music~ for all to see

Well it got Sonic Youth on Buzzfeed so I can once again feel fine about my terribly outdated taste in music.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Hmmm. Rundle wrote a thing today about the lack of Tea Party equivalent in Australia but I think he's fundamentally mistaken. You see a similar blend of hard right and old left, as he calls it, in the National Party. And the Nationals have been around, in that form even, a lot longer than the UKIP and the Tea Party. It's just less noticable because in a lot of ways their basically perpetual alliance with the Liberal party has taken a lot of the edge off the public representatives (both in terms of the deeply embedded racism and the commitment to populist economic measures (they still support a heckalot of old left style social economic management but only in the context of farmers and graziers, and spending a fuckton on infrastructure in rural areas that sees comparatively little use). But the same attitudes are still there, bubbling away under the surface, there's a reason why it's the Nationals that take the biggest hit from One Nation.

 

[danm999]

I always get a sensible chuckle.gif going when I read people freaking out about how Sharia law could come to Australia and I just wonder what on Earth they thing the legal and practical mechanisms behind that would be.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I always get a sensible chuckle.gif going when I read people freaking out about how Sharia law could come to Australia and I just wonder what on Earth they thing the legal and practical mechanisms behind that would be.

Those peoples are kind of derpy. There are places where disputes can be resolved by Sharia (and its kind of enforced by social / community pressure and sometimes legal contracts) but obviously they have no more (or less) legal standing than any other similar method for intra-community disputes (ie if it contradicts Australian law it is invalid and likely presenting it as being otherwise is illegal and there's no state-backed enforcing of bits that don't conflict but aren't present in Australian law either). It's Creeping Sharia in about the same way the various Christian Churches marriage and divorce policies are Creeping Christianity.

 

[Arksy]

Those peoples are kind of derpy. There are places where disputes can be resolved by Sharia (and its kind of enforced by social / community pressure and sometimes legal contracts) but obviously they have no more (or less) legal standing than any other similar method for intra-community disputes (ie if it contradicts Australian law it is invalid and likely presenting it as being otherwise is illegal and there's no state-backed enforcing of bits that don't conflict but aren't present in Australian law either). It's Creeping Sharia in about the same way the various Christian Churches marriage and divorce policies are Creeping Christianity.

Non-Christians have always been able to get married. The idea that marriage is a Christian concept is truly bizarre. Are there any cultures that anyone knows of where ritualistic monogamy simply doesn't exist?

But yes, the idea is nonsense. Common law means exactly that, common, common to the farmer to the worker to the bishop and even the king. It binds us all.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Non-Christians have always been able to get married. The idea that marriage is a Christian concept is truly bizarre. Are there any cultures that anyone knows of where ritualistic monogamy simply doesn't exist?

But yes, the idea is nonsense. Common law means exactly that, common, common to the farmer to the worker to the bishop and even the king. It binds us all.

That's not really what I meant. It's more that eg the Anglican church makes you sit down and go through marriage counselling courses with a priest before you can get married there. It doesn't mean that Anglican marriage counselling is mandatory to get married in Australia.

I can't think of a culture that lacks ritualistic ~"exclusive bonding" though there are some pretty obvious cultures/subcultures (eg certain Mormon communities) that don't give pair-bonding extra weight (or even look down on it) but it would be very difficult to make it absolutely unavailable (death, economic limitations, etc).

 

[wonzo]

 

[Elaugaufein]

So anyone want to run a betting pool on how many people get arrested as a direct result of this ?

 

[Candescence]

So Scott Morrison says he wants to tackle the housing bubble... Through increasing supply, instead of tackling the actual problems facing first home buyers.

Then again, I suppose having the LNP target their own voter base was too much to ask.

Dammit, Turnbull, you picked the wrong treasurer.

 

[danm999]

So Scott Morrison says he wants to tackle the housing bubble... Through increasing supply, instead of tackling the actual problems facing first home buyers.

Then again, I suppose having the LNP target their own voter base was too much to ask.

Dammit, Turnbull, you picked the wrong treasurer.

Let me guess; if we just get some of the pesky red tape out of the way house prices will drop.

 

[r1chard]

So Scott Morrison says he wants to tackle the housing bubble... Through increasing supply, instead of tackling the actual problems facing first home buyers.

Then again, I suppose having the LNP target their own voter base was too much to ask.

Dammit, Turnbull, you picked the wrong treasurer.

Wasn't I just reading the other day (seriously, a few days ago) about us being on the verge of an oversupply problem? Wish I knew where I read it now, but it was in one of the papers.

 

[Mr. Tone]

Dammit, Turnbull, you picked the wrong treasurer.

That appointment stands out to me as a fine example of keeping your enemies closer.

 

[Shaneus]

So Scott Morrison says he wants to tackle the housing bubble... Through increasing supply, instead of tackling the actual problems facing first home buyers.

Then again, I suppose having the LNP target their own voter base was too much to ask.

Dammit, Turnbull, you picked the wrong treasurer.

Fucking idiot. Supply is not the fucking problem. The more you supply, the more investors are going to buy that shit, NOT FIRST HOME BUYERS.

ARGH.

Wasn't I just reading the other day (seriously, a few days ago) about us being on the verge of an oversupply problem? Wish I knew where I read it now, but it was in one of the papers.

Probably almost everywhere? Maybe Crikey?

 

[Arksy]

Well yeah if you only increase supply by a little bit, what they should do is just make about five new cities.

 

[danm999]

Oh fucking hell, reading that story about Morrison and housing prices in the Herald and I can't focus on the details because this has me captivated.

My guess is some new PR staffer told him he needed to soften up his image if he ever wanted to be PM.

 

[Candescence]

Really, housing investment should not be a fucking industry. A lot of common goods that are vital to living are at the mercy of the market, and it's bullshit. Fuck neoliberalism right up the ass.

Though, I guess considering the inevitable automation of most of the economy within a couple of decades, I wanna see the Coalition flail about trying to resist 'socialist' options such as universal basic income that will be pretty much required. There's pretty much no way around it.

 

[Elaugaufein]

But goods that are vital to living are the best investments because demand is more or less guaranteed and its not like I (as an investor) suffer the costs (I already have a place to live).

 

[Marky Mark]

Oh fucking hell, reading that story about Morrison and housing prices in the Herald and I can't focus on the details because this has me captivated.

My guess is some new PR staffer told him he needed to soften up his image if he ever wanted to be PM.

There's something odd about the perspective in this image, making him look like Godzilla.

 

[D.Lo]

Really, housing investment should not be a fucking industry. A lot of common goods that are vital to living are at the mercy of the market, and it's bullshit. Fuck neoliberalism right up the ass.

It especially should not be a taxpayer funded industry, via capital gains exemptions and discounts and other bullshit.

I have absolutely no idea how anyone think's it's acceptable to tax 'earnings' from flipping a house LOWER THAN WAGES WHAT THE FUCK.

And then you get extra tax breaks on your other main income from your rental vs interest payment 'loss'?

Pure fucked up Lord and serf bullshit from that asshole Costello.

 

[Yagharek]

There's something odd about the perspective in this image, making him look like Godzilla.

That's just his personality. He fucks up people on remote islands in the pacific first, before moving on to the big cities.

 

[wonzo]

Hmmm. Rundle wrote a thing today about the lack of Tea Party equivalent in Australia but I think he's fundamentally mistaken. You see a similar blend of hard right and old left, as he calls it, in the National Party. And the Nationals have been around, in that form even, a lot longer than the UKIP and the Tea Party. It's just less noticable because in a lot of ways their basically perpetual alliance with the Liberal party has taken a lot of the edge off the public representatives (both in terms of the deeply embedded racism and the commitment to populist economic measures (they still support a heckalot of old left style social economic management but only in the context of farmers and graziers, and spending a fuckton on infrastructure in rural areas that sees comparatively little use). But the same attitudes are still there, bubbling away under the surface, there's a reason why it's the Nationals that take the biggest hit from One Nation.

The Nationals are made up of mostly old people so his point kinda stands (in that it's the old that make up this fringe noxious reactionary stew, & most of them are either dead or well on their way.)

 

[danm999]

There's something odd about the perspective in this image, making him look like Godzilla.

I just assumed he heads down to the beach most days and glowers at the water to repeal any incoming boats.

 

[Shaneus]

Oh fucking hell, reading that story about Morrison and housing prices in the Herald and I can't focus on the details because this has me captivated.



My guess is some new PR staffer told him he needed to soften up his image if he ever wanted to be PM.

They should make a movie poster out of it. Call it "Pacific Rimjob".