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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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R

r1chard

Member
Oh, don't worry, it turns out some of the people we locked up were Kiwis. White people. So some are starting to pay attention now.
 
M

manipulate

Member
D.Lo said:
Every single government or ministerial thing I've ever been to starts with 'acknowledging the traditional owners of the land', it's official government MP protocol.
Click to expand...

I don't really know how I feel about this. In a lot of respects it's a perfect example of enforced bureaucratic lip service.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Yagharek said:
Is that for real? Fuck me.
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The cancelled applications weren't from refugees rather they were from people outside of Australia who had applied to come to Australia under three different types of skilled migrant visas, they just flushed the queue. Still a pretty nasty play as some of these people had been on the list for upwards of 8 years and now have nowhere to go. Strangely none of them were 457 visas, gotta keep paying Filipino workers $2 an hour on offshore gas rigs and shipping!

www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/callous-and-indifferent-australian-government-slammed-for-scrapping-three-types-of-skilled-visas-turning-away-16000-people-20150928-gjwyc7.html
 
D

Dryk

Member
I know it's a different type of immigration but this is a pretty good thing to point out when people start talking about queue jumpers
 
D

danm999

Member
Just another fucked cog in the machine that is our highly politicised immigration process.

Why are we bumping skilled migrants who have been waiting for years off the list? Why does that have to be a zero sum game with regards to our increase in Syrian migrants?

And while we're at it, why if we accept Syrian refugees are legitimate and have a very fucking good reason to be running away, do we accept the ones still stuck in or around Syria, but keep others locked up in Nauru under a veneer of illegitimacy and call them economic refugees.

If it's because we want to discourage people smuggling, why the fuck are we allegedly paying people smugglers to turn around. Doesn't that encourage the practice? At best, doesn't it just fund people smugglers to move their passengers elsewhere?

Howard and Abbott really, really deserve a special place in hell for the way they completely denigrated the discourse in this country around this issue.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Looks like the Uni deregulation changes have been officially dumped:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/turnbull-government-shelves-controversial-university-reforms-in-major-departure-from-abbott-era-20150930-gjynlt.html

About time, yet another thing "The Fixer" er... um fixed? Can't wait to see what he fixes next! Making it harder to obtain education in a system that is already massively weighted against the young is, I hope, antithetical to what Malcom is trying to achieve. We have to smart our way out not cut.

"Tin Ear" Tones in the middle of his tour of moaning to every friendly media outlet is of course disappointed.

Former prime minister Tony Abbott immediately condemned the decision, saying he was "disappointed".

"I'm a little disappointed by it and frankly, I am disappointed that the people who call for reform did not get behind the 2014 budget," Mr Abbott told 3AW host Neil Mitchell.
Click to expand...
 
D

danm999

Member
Just another hit track in Tony's new touring album "Definitely not white-anting, support this government even with all its problems, because the LNP are worth it even with all the problems and oh did I mention the problems?"

Though for someone who has been accustomed to calling their political opponents terrorists, Nazis, un-Australian monsters, racists and communists over the slightest policy disagreement in the past two years, this is probably the acme of cunning and subtlety in his mind.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
I'm saddened that we've reached the level where a government considering what legislation can pass is worthy of praise. At least we're better than America (where they are trying to repeal Obamacare for the 61st time despite the rather obvious fact it's going to get vetoed and they have nothing like the Senate votes to override).
 
D

danm999

Member
I shudder to think where Australian politics would be if we had the filibuster, if we allowed State governments to draw electoral maps, if we used first past the post, if we elected our judges, police officers, registrars etc.
 
D

danm999

Member
I feel really, really sorry for that kid (because that's what he is; he's not even old enough to vote FFS) who has been taken advantage of by older fuckheads for...

I'm actually not sure for what purpose. To dispel the notion the Telegraph is a fossil read by fossils? Because he's the most mature person capable of writing that article with a straight face?

Because that shit is going to haunt him forever.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
danm999 said:
I feel really, really sorry for that kid (because that's what he is; he's not even old enough to vote FFS) who has been taken advantage of by older fuckheads for...

I'm actually not sure for what purpose. To dispel the notion the Telegraph is a fossil read by fossils? Because he's the most mature person capable of writing that article with a straight face?

Because that shit is going to haunt him forever.
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He's been doing this for years, clearly someone who should know better is/was pulling his strings.

As a talkback regular, he has built an identity amongst listeners all over the country, either as a switched-on young man and an interesting beacon of sense. His contributions have earnt him the praise of highly respected radio announcers such as Jeremy Cordeaux, Ben Fordham and Michael McLaren, along with columnists Nicolle Flint and Miranda Devine.
Click to expand...

dead.gif
 
D

danm999

Member
Ah I see now.

While there's a lot of hand wringing amongst Newscorp and the Bolts and Devines and Jones and Hadleys about the inner city latte left Twitterati Facebook slacktivist entitlement leaner millenial generation this kid is trotted out as a prodigy. Even though he apparently doesn't understand Zaky Mullah is a citizen and Troy Newman isn't.

But I suppose when even the Young Liberals and the Young Nationals are in favour of marriage equality (and even call it that) you're hard up for young role models.
 
J

JC Sera

Member
reminds me somehow as a young tween watching rollercoaster, and they had a kid review section

the 10 year old kid was recommending a cherubs book
I had read that book, and in a 4pm time slot, they were recommending a book where the protagonist cheats on his girlfriend and she forgives him but forces him to get an STD test, which they describe a bit too accurately (mainly where the swab goes)

like idk screen the content kids put up a bit more

sorry about the tangent
 
C

Candescence

Member
R

Rubixcuba

Banned
Hack are discussing the Troy Newman thing. Annoyance at anything Caleb Bond says is far outweighed by the MRA calling in about abortion.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
I mean he's right that its a Free Speech issue but the Australian version is significantly different to the American one (actually American Free Speech has with only a handful of exceptions (like the idiocy that is Free Speech Zones) been interpreted very very broadly). In America the bar on Free Speech is imminent incitement to illegal activity. We don't have the imminent part in our restrictions. And I don't think its unfair to argue that imminent incitement is perhaps leaving things a bit too late.
 
C

Candescence

Member
Concerning Troy Newman, free speech doesn't give you the right to force anyone to give you a venue to say whatever you want, or protect you from the consequences of what you say. XKCD says it better than I. Quite frankly, I don't see any issue here, and seeing Troy Newman getting deported is quite cathartic.
 
D

danm999

Member
Yeah, don't really see it as a free speech issue. He fails the character test for a visa.

Likewise if I commit a crime I cannot apply for an ESTA and visit the USA.

Imagine if an Imam preaching violence against say, Jews or Christians, arrived in an Australian airport with no visa. There wouldn't be enough Bex in the world to calm down some of the cartoon characters at the Telegraph.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
Candescence said:
Concerning Troy Newman, free speech doesn't give you the right to force anyone to give you a venue to say whatever you want, or protect you from the consequences of what you say. XKCD says it better than I. Quite frankly, I don't see any issue here, and seeing Troy Newman getting deported is quite cathartic.
Click to expand...

I have serious issues with XKCDs interpretation and am actually fairly disquieted by some of the severe overreactions that have taken place due to social media outrage over fairly minor things. The right to say things that nobody disagrees or the right to say things that nobody can hear are pretty meaningless rights, frankly. Though I don't think this is an issue that can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction since there's other fundamental rights (eg Association) that any particular solution would infringe upon.
 
W

wonzo

Banned
CQXRfRAUEAAuGP0.jpg:large
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Well that 'showbiz' background makes sense.

He's a 'child prodigy', and so has been created by parents pushing their ideas, like most child actors and singers and those child beauty pageant girls.
 
L

legend166

Member
The problem with these quotes is that it's not just people mocking or reacting to speech the way they decide, it's that they're forcing their chosen response onto others.

I just don't buy inrush the idea that unless it's the government itself shutting down the transfer of thought/opinion then there's no freedom of speech issue to be worried about. I mean sure, it's technically not censorship, but it's still worrying.

I mean, everyone thought it was stupid when Target (I think it was?) stopped selling GTA V due to pressure from that family group. But all those quotes could apply in that situation.

The left seems to have gone from "If you don't like something, don't listen" to "If you don't like something, organise protest groups and pressure everyone tangentially related to said thing so it will go away so no one else can even have the opportunity to like it." Historically this has been the domain of conservatives with authoritarian leanings (like book burnings), but the left have taken to it like ducks to water.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Mr. Pointy said:
Turnbull better be paying for that stadium.
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I like how Turbull got booed, Baird got Booed, the NRL CEO was booed and Palaszczuk was cheered. Queensland crowd!

Anyway Dick Smith had a go at Turnbull for allowing large private companies to avoid disclosing their tax details to avoid the completely made up threat of kidnapping and Blackmail.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/dick-smith-savages-malcolm-turnbull-for-shielding-rich-from-tax-transparency-20151003-gk0j90.html

But this line at the end:

Liberal Senator David Bushby has claimed there was a danger that companies could be "shamed into paying more tax than they are legally obliged to" if the tax transparency laws are not rescinded.

He said Labor's law had set out to "demonise" companies to "get people excited about tax laws".
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Just amazing.
 
J

Jintor

Member
legend166 said:
The left seems to have gone from "If you don't like something, don't listen" to "If you don't like something, organise protest groups and pressure everyone tangentially related to said thing so it will go away so no one else can even have the opportunity to like it." Historically this has been the domain of conservatives with authoritarian leanings (like book burnings), but the left have taken to it like ducks to water.
Click to expand...

I think some of the perspective really boils down to: informed people can shut their ears, but uninformed people aren't sufficiently in the know to understand that the people yelling from the rooftops are doing so from a place of idiocy.

Obviously the better solution is to encourage everybody to become informed, but there's practical issues involved there...
 
L

legend166

Member
Jintor said:
I think some of the perspective really boils down to: informed people can shut their ears, but uninformed people aren't sufficiently in the know to understand that the people yelling from the rooftops are doing so from a place of idiocy.

Obviously the better solution is to encourage everybody to become informed, but there's practical issues involved there...
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Who gets to decide what is and isn't idiocy?
 
J

Jintor

Member
legend166 said:
Who gets to decide what is and isn't idiocy?
Click to expand...

Good question.













Part of me wants to say it's something obviously that's difficult to make a true 100% approximation of, there's always evidence for and against, etc, etc.

Another part of me wants to say "If you're a flat earther or an anti-vaxxer or your response to actual evidence is simply "I don't accept that", then get out"
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
legend166 said:
The problem with these quotes is that it's not just people mocking or reacting to speech the way they decide, it's that they're forcing their chosen response onto others.

I just don't buy inrush the idea that unless it's the government itself shutting down the transfer of thought/opinion then there's no freedom of speech issue to be worried about. I mean sure, it's technically not censorship, but it's still worrying.

I mean, everyone thought it was stupid when Target (I think it was?) stopped selling GTA V due to pressure from that family group. But all those quotes could apply in that situation.

The left seems to have gone from "If you don't like something, don't listen" to "If you don't like something, organise protest groups and pressure everyone tangentially related to said thing so it will go away so no one else can even have the opportunity to like it." Historically this has been the domain of conservatives with authoritarian leanings (like book burnings), but the left have taken to it like ducks to water.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much what I was going to say. Only I was (probably unwisely) going to be more of a smart arse.

Jintor said:
Good question.

Part of me wants to say it's something obviously that's difficult to make a true 100% approximation of, there's always evidence for and against, etc, etc.

Another part of me wants to say "If you're a flat earther or an anti-vaxxer or your response to actual evidence is simply "I don't accept that", then get out"
Click to expand...

I feel that they have the right to express their ideas to the public, but it pretty much ends there (the public is under no obligation to take it seriously). My concern is basically that alternate ideas can be expressed and recorded even if society disapproves. There's been many ideas that historically have been disapproved of by the majority of society that many of us consider to be correct today (eg woman voting, equal rights independent of race, secular humanism) .
 
C

Candescence

Member
Honestly, while I get the concerns about where the limits of the need for free speech are, trying to extend free speech protections beyond preventing government prosecution honestly feels like a slippery slope to me, because without hard boundaries, we get into problematic territory of stuff like harassment, hate speech and internet banning. That's why I limit my personal definition of censorship to government actions, anything more becomes a slippery slope and a much bigger can of worms. "There can be too much of a good thing" applies quite well here.
 
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