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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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T

Tommy DJ

Member
See, its stuff like this that confuses me. A lot of people are happy to vote for a party based on such things like "I'm happy they're going to ditch the racial discrimination act because government can't tell people what to say!" but they're also willing to support the party who is actively doing this sort of bullshit. So they're not OK with media controls but they're OK with silencing and prosecuting human rights whistle blowers and creating the Australian Stasi that is the Border Force? Doesn't make any sense to me.
 
J

Jintor

Member
I wonder if whistleblowing on government activities counts as political expression

/edit although of course the laws criminalising whistleblowing would I suppose override that
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
Tommy DJ said:
See, its stuff like this that confuses me. A lot of people are happy to vote for a party based on such things like "I'm happy they're going to ditch the racial discrimination act because government can't tell people what to say!" but they're also willing to support the party who is actively doing this sort of bullshit. So they're not OK with media controls but they're OK with silencing and prosecuting human rights whistle blowers and creating the Australian Stasi that is the Border Force? Doesn't make any sense to me.
Click to expand...
A lot of people only support liberalism and markets in so far as these things have a tendency to reinforce and support existing power structures, cultural norms etc... the instant they start veering into say, market mechanisms for addressing externalities, equality for minorities, transparency and accountability or consumer activism it all starts becoming dangerous extremism that needs to be clamped down on, hard.
 
J

JC Sera

Member
W

wonzo

Banned
CQg9Ku9U8AADyJv.jpg:large


lol, that didnt take long
 
J

JC Sera

Member
Rubixcuba said:
Ugh. Who is he even trying to appeal to there? Albo pls.
Click to expand...
Sadly many of my cousins with their young kids actually fall into this group
they don't get putting your kids in private primary is a waste of money
private highschool I can see the benefits
but still
this isn't a top priority when voting
wonzo said:
CQg9Ku9U8AADyJv.jpg:large


lol, that didnt take long
Click to expand...
everything is becoming more dreary and dystopian (can you source these caps)
 
H

hidys

Member
At the end of the day penalty rates mean the difference between a Haswell core i5 4690k with a compatible motherboard and a Skylake core i5 6600k with a compatible motherboard.

Are you inspired?
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
JC Sera said:
Sadly many of my cousins with their young kids actually fall into this group
they don't get putting your kids in private primary is a waste of money
private highschool I can see the benefits
but still
this isn't a top priority when voting

everything is becoming more dreary and dystopian (can you source these caps)
Click to expand...

We may as well just drop the charade.

Stop electing governments and instead let the top companies on the ASX 100 appoint the government. Whomever we vote for does what they want anyway.
 
J

JC Sera

Member
Ok I know that seemed like a bit of an OTT comment
but the stuff with the refugees is really depressing me
the secrecy of the TPP, a deal that affects the livelyhood of over a billion people, fills me with anxiety and dread
The housing bubble & the employment environment is filling me with doubt for my future

the future just looks so shit and nothing is changing
 
A

Arksy

Member
Every single time there's liberalisation of markets people routinely bring about the same arguments and same fears..yet almost every single time it has worked to improve living conditions in both countries.

I think that there are weird things about the Top that are probably unconstitutional. You can't outsource law making ability.

But...I dunno. Don't despair peeps. Shit'll be alright. I hope :p


Edit: Ok aside from the EFTA and the EU. That's completely fucked Europe up...but that's not a trade bloc but a customs union technically.
 
J

JC Sera

Member
Arksy said:
Every single time there's liberalisation of markets people routinely bring about the same arguments and same fears..yet almost every single time it has worked to improve living conditions in both countries.

I think that there are weird things about the Top that are probably unconstitutional. You can't outsource law making ability.

But...I dunno. Don't despair peeps. Shit'll be alright. I hope :p


Edit: Ok aside from the EFTA and the EU. That's completely fucked Europe up...but that's not a trade bloc but a customs union technically.
Click to expand...
ARE YOU MADE OF MAGIC
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/10/05/nauru-ends-detention-of-asylum-seekers.html
 
R

Rubixcuba

Banned
From what I understand, they will be grated asylum on Nauru, allowed to live on island? Concern now turns to the relations between inhabitants of Nauru and processed asylum seekers.
 
J

JC Sera

Member
Its not a perfect solution, but a tiny step in the right direction; i.e. away from horribly violating human rights of innocent people.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
Shaneus said:
Of course it was reported on by Miranda Devine.
Click to expand...

He has been summarising his results in a series of blog posts on his wife Jo Nova’s blog for climate sceptics.

He is about half way through his series, with blog post 8, “Applying the Stefan-Boltzmann Law to Earth”, published on Friday.

When it is completed his work will be published as two scientific papers. Both papers are undergoing peer review.
Click to expand...

Lol, not holding my breath.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
Arksy said:
Every single time there's liberalisation of markets people routinely bring about the same arguments and same fears..yet almost every single time it has worked to improve living conditions in both countries.

I think that there are weird things about the Top that are probably unconstitutional. You can't outsource law making ability.

But...I dunno. Don't despair peeps. Shit'll be alright. I hope :p


Edit: Ok aside from the EFTA and the EU. That's completely fucked Europe up...but that's not a trade bloc but a customs union technically.
Click to expand...

Not arguing that this has historical been true, but I'm pretty sure that in the last 30 years this has become significantly less true as trade agreements are less trade agreements (the mutual lowering of import/export barriers) and more mechanisms for passing laws that heavily favor corporate interest in ways that obviate the need to explain why to the population or lock in existing laws that on balance should probably be rolled back or at least investigated in the future (which is what they mean when they say "fully compliant with existing law").

The productivity commission actually looked into AUSFTA and couldn't find a net positive and possibly negative effects (acting as enforcement for US corporations costs money).
 
D

darkace

Banned
Arksy said:
Every single time there's liberalisation of markets people routinely bring about the same arguments and same fears..yet almost every single time it has worked to improve living conditions in both countries.

I think that there are weird things about the Top that are probably unconstitutional. You can't outsource law making ability.

But...I dunno. Don't despair peeps. Shit'll be alright. I hope :p


Edit: Ok aside from the EFTA and the EU. That's completely fucked Europe up...but that's not a trade bloc but a customs union technically.
Click to expand...

Generally I agree with you, however the TPP seems to go above and beyond what other FTA have done. The ISDS and pharmaceutical provisions genuinely scare me, I don't see any benefit to our country from them at all.

Not to mention the whole secrecy of it, it makes a mockery of our democracy that such an important agreement is passing without any public scrutiny whatsoever.

Edit: Adding on to what Elau has said, recent FTAs are less FTAs and more preferential trade agreements, and it remains to be seen whether or not the TPP actually liberalises trade.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
wonzo said:
ban all private schools
Click to expand...
Yep. Or reduce their government funding and tax benefits to $0. Same with private hospitals, you can pay if you like but you pay for all of it. Every dollar spent on them weakens the public versions.

If someone pays for private security, or a private fire brigade, should they have it partially funded by the government because they may use the police/fire brigade less (yet still use them in actual life threatening situations anyway...)?

These 'half social' systems are a ridiculous waste and are purely designed for the elite to not have to deal with the poor.
 
E

Elaugaufein

Member
D.Lo said:
Yep. Or reduce their government funding and tax benefits to $0. Same with private hospitals, you can pay if you like but you pay for all of it. Every dollar spent on them weakens the public versions.

If someone pays for private security, or a private fire brigade, should they have it partially funded by the government because they may use the police/fire brigade less (yet still use them in actual life threatening situations anyway...)?

These 'half social' systems are a ridiculous waste and are purely designed for the elite to not have to deal with the poor.
Click to expand...

Actually there's reasons to provide some funding to private schools. It gives you a carrot to remove if they start teaching from American Evangelical books (Global warning is a hoax! The Communists are still coming!).

They've actually already rolled back private health insurance a bit , they've started means testing the rebate (my accountant informs me that I don't qualify anymore).
 
D

Dryk

Member
Yagharek said:
Solar activity has been shown time and time again not to be responsible for anywhere near the magnitude of observed warming.
Click to expand...
I know but that's not really my point. The point is that I often see people trying to argue

- Global warming has paused so it's fine
OR
- Global warming is due to the solar cycle so it's fine

Neither of those arguments make any sense when put up against the fact that the sun is at the beginning of a 300-year minimum and the temperature is still significantly higher than the baseline average
 
D

darkace

Banned
So this is the first thing that I saw when googling the guy that she mentioned:

Dr David Evans is a prominent climate sceptic residing in Perth (see biography here). Evans has made a number of claims about the role of banking institutions throughout history and that climate change is merely a cover for a massive power play”.

On perceived Antisemitism of some of the claims: in the work of Evans one can detect motifs, language, chronologies and references that parallel older conspiracy theories.

It is important to note that Evans makes no statements on race, religion of those supposedly controlling the world behind the scenes.

Having said that, the continued use of phrases such as “international bankers”, “banksters”, “banking families”, “gold smiths”, references to centuries long conspiracies, the Rothschild’s and the use of climate change as a cover for one-world government” are – to say the least – highly problematical.
Click to expand...

Personally I await his findings eagerly.
 
D

danm999

Member
It's almost like believing climate change is a global conspiracy towards UN control might indicate other unhealthy beliefs in a person.
 
D

Danoss

Member
Shaneus said:
Of course it was reported on by Miranda Devine
Click to expand...

My favourite parts were this:

Dr Evans says his discovery “ought to change the world”.
Click to expand...

In other words this means "ought to leave the world in it's current state". Also:

Some scientists have even forecast a mini ice age in the 2030s.
Click to expand...

Just the 2030's? I thought it happened every year and is referred to as "winter". If the earth's temperature were to drop to such a low average to bring about anything that could be referred to as an ice age, you could say that the climate has changed. Lastly:

theory
Click to expand...

There's an apt quote found in The Princess Bride for this one: "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." Wait, that's not it. I'm sure you know the one I mean.

Either way, Miranda, the word you're looking for is "hypothesis". Perhaps it'd be best to understand more rudimentary aspects of science before attempting to write anything further on the subject. All the other red flags aren't really worth mentioning with the misuse of this word found amongst them.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
danm999 said:
It's almost like believing climate change is a global conspiracy towards UN control might indicate other unhealthy beliefs in a person.
Click to expand...

Just saw the guys Wife Jo Nova on The Drum, yep nutters.

She obfuscated and outright told lies about climate change, touched on one world and Jewish financial conspiracies and then finished it off with some One Nation style, we decided what people come to the country etc...
 
S

Shaneus

Member
bobnowhere said:
Just saw the guys Wife Jo Nova on The Drum, yep nutters.

She obfuscated and outright told lies about climate change, touched on one world and Jewish financial conspiracies and then finished it off with some One Nation style, we decided what people come to the country etc...
Click to expand...
Was this today? Would it be on iView?
 
A

Arksy

Member
The huff over the ISDS provisions in the agreement seems a bit ridiculous..I mean I can see why people might be worried..At least from an Australian perspective. Several legal people here will attest to the following. You can't contract out Australian legislative power. It's just not possible. If we sign a treaty that says X and then pass a law that says not X then not X is the law of the land regardless of what anyone says. We don't have a transformative legal system, our domestic law does not take to international law...like the United Stats, ours is incorporative. We have to pass international law as local law in order for it to be a part of our legal system.

Also parliaments can't bind future parliaments. That was one of the points of the English civil war. The ISDS might be shit but it's far from the democratic death knell people make it out to be..at least in Australia. Can't speak for any of the others...and no one is going to invade us because we told BP/pharmacy/investors to go fuck themselves
 
F

Fredescu

Member
An ISDS dispute with Phillip Morris has already cost us $50 million, and I believe there is no avenue to recover costs. I thought you'd be pretty against it on "waste of tax money" grounds alone.
 
J

Jintor

Member
I don't think peeps be worried about, like, literally companies saying "We now write the law" - it's more about chilling effect etc of worrying about being sued by companies for making certain laws, right?
 
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