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[Kenshin001]

(Reuters) - Indonesia owes it to Australia not to execute two Australian drug offenders on death row, Prime Minister Tony Abbott said on Wednesday, ratcheting up a diplomatic war of words that is threatening to sour relations between the neighbors.

Australia has been pursuing an eleventh-hour campaign to save the lives of Myuran Sukumaran, 33, and Andrew Chan, 31, two members of the so-called Bali Nine, convicted in 2005 as the ringleaders of a plot to smuggle heroin out of Indonesia.

Indonesia has harsh penalties for drug trafficking and resumed executions in 2013 after a five-year gap.

Abbott urged Indonesia to remember the devastating 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, saying Australia would feel "grievously let down" if the executions proceeded despite the roughly A$1 billion in assistance it rendered after the disaster that killed hundreds of thousands of people in Indonesia's Aceh province.

Indonesian Foreign ministry spokesman Armanatha Nasir told reporters in Jakarta he hoped Abbott's statement did not "reflect the true colors of Australians".

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015...ralia-executions-minist-idUSKBN0LM08920150218

Been kind of interesting seeing the twitter war erupting over this with Australians using the hashtag #boycottbali to pressure Indonesia and the resulting push back by Indonesians resentful of Australian interference. There has always been a simmering animosity between the two and it seems to be bubbling to the surface.

 

[fertygo]

Bringing over the natural disaster help sound very classy.

 

[chaobreaker]

There has always been a simmering animosity between the two and it seems to be bubbling to the surface.

Why is that?

 

[DXPett1]

Boycott only hurts the people of Bali who have zero bearing on the outcome of the case.

On the other hand, death penalty serves little to discourage crime (it's existed as a form of punishment for HOW long?)

Want to know the real problem in all this? AFP knowing all about the drug carriers, what flights they were going to (and did) board and did nothing but hand them on a silver platter to the Indonesian's. I don't blame them (Indonesian Police) taking their prize. Looks good for their police force to both the public and their management/government (right in the midst of a anti-drug blitz).

AFP knew full well what the outcome would be and let it happen

 

[Kenshin001]

Why is that?

Australia is the poster child of white colonialism in Asia and seems to think it has a rightful leadership role in the region.

 

[Madness]

Abbott urged Indonesia to remember the devastating 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, saying Australia would feel "grievously let down" if the executions proceeded despite the roughly A$1 billion in assistance it rendered after the disaster that killed hundreds of thousands of people in Indonesia's Aceh province.

Basically sounds like, hey, remember when we helped you out during one of the worst natural disasters in history? Well we wont help you again if you kill these drug dealers, which is perfectly in line with their laws. Don't get me wrong, I think the death penalty for drug offences is extreme, but those were the laws of Indonesia. They are draconian, but Australia is basically trying to guilt or use blackmail to try and get their way.

I don't think people realize just how quickly Indonesia is growing either. It's on track to surpass the UK and Australia very soon, by 2030, it'll be the 7th largest economy in the world. It's upper middle class and affluent citizens are already more than double the total population of Australia. Think about that.

 

[Darklord]

Australia is the poster child of white colonialism in Asia and seems to think it has a rightful leadership role in the region.

Indonesia has already released every terrorist responsible for the Bali bombings which killed 92 Australians and does virtually nothing to stop human smugglers filling half broken boats full off asylum seekers and send them to Australia. It's hardly a one way issue.

Tony Abbott needs to learn when to shut the fuck up though.

 

[Phat Michael]

1) Boycott Bali hashtag launched
2) Air Asia offers cheap trips to Bali
3) Everyone goes to Bali.

 

[Kenshin001]

Indonesia has already released every terrorist responsible for the Bali bombings which killed 92 Australians and does virtually nothing to stop human smugglers filling half broken boats full off asylum seekers and send them to Australia. It's hardly a one way issue.

Tony Abbott needs to learn when to shut the fuck up though.

I agree. i think there are multiple issues that contribute to the animosity, but I think the foundation is Australia's position in the region. You could also point to Australia's support for East Timor's independence and how that antagonized some Indonesians and comments about preemptively bombing terrorist bases on Indonesian soil.

 

[Mohonky]

On the one hand; its Indonesia and you know drug smuggling in the region carries huge penalties. Its not like its some little secret they dont tell you about in the travel brochure.

On the other hand; some of the bali bombers got off with lesser punishment which is ridiculous.

 

[sandy1297]

Boycott only hurts the people of Bali

nope, we'll be just fine

more over, other Australians have also been executed in other ASEAN country like Singapore and Malaysia because of drug trafficking and I dont recalled them boycotting those two countries in the past

 

[Maximo]

Tony is fucking pathetic with that comment.

 

[Madness]

On the one hand; its Indonesia and you know drug smuggling in the region carries huge penalties. Its not like its some little secret they dont tell you about in the travel brochure.

On the other hand; some of the bali bombers got off with lesser punishment which is ridiculous.

But on both hands, Indonesia as a sovereign nation state, gets to decide through its own self-determination and laws, who and what they will prosecute or punish. If the Bali bombers got off light, that was Indonesia's decision. If they want to execute some heroin ringleaders, that's Indonesia's decision.

The statement about the charity during the tsunami almost sounds like guilt/blackmail. Either you do what we say, or you won't get help during tragedies again.

 

[Kenshin001]

Tony is fucking pathetic with that comment.

Yeah I have no idea why he is using that to hit them over the head, especially over two scumbags. Abbott is just a terrible PM all round. Saying that, it is sad to see Indonesians on social media denigrating Australians and calling them arrogant and ignorant when the Australia public really pulled out the stops to help Indonesians at that time.

 

[Myansie]

Indonesia has already released every terrorist responsible for the Bali bombings which killed 92 Australians and does virtually nothing to stop human smugglers filling half broken boats full off asylum seekers and send them to Australia. It's hardly a one way issue.

Tony Abbott needs to learn when to shut the fuck up though.

Those would be good arguments attacking the hypocrisy of the government itself. Instead Abbott chooses to attack aid which helps ordinary Indonesians. Aid the government doesn't give a shit about.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

I'm all for dumping on Abbott but I think people are rushing a bit to assume he was deliberately implying a threat. He's generally an incompetent speaker so it's not unreasonable to assume that he meant only to highlight the goodwill that has been shared by the two nations.

Indonesia has already released every terrorist responsible for the Bali bombings which killed 92 Australians and does virtually nothing to stop human smugglers filling half broken boats full off asylum seekers and send them to Australia. It's hardly a one way issue.

Tony Abbott needs to learn when to shut the fuck up though.

Don't forget the murder of Australian journalists by the Indonesian military. You're right it's not a one-way issue and frankly Indonesia was for much of it's recent history a terrible state which Australia alternately butted heads with or did questionable things to maintain a relationship with.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Bringing up disaster relief is pretty messed up, I doubt the Indonesians figured accepting help meant their drug laws no longer applied to Australians visiting their country.

On the other hand

Indonesia has already released every terrorist responsible for the Bali bombings which killed 92 Australians

this is far more fucked up if true.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

You have to be a full dick to bring up the tsunami.

 

[jellies_two]

australia knew these guys were going to do this and they sat and watched it, rather than arrest them locally.
Everyone knows theae countries execute drug mules so its a bit strange for the government to be making a fuss now.
If the authoritiea cared that much about injustice they could have stepped in sooner.

 

[Shandy]

Yup, another showing that Tony Abbott has a royally fucked up moral compass.

I don't approve of the death penalty in just about every case, though as you get into the more extreme regions of criminality and depravity in human behaviour, I find it harder to definitively reject it. Nevertheless, I wouldn't think it appropriate or useful in this particular situation.

Of course, with that said, I don't have any emotional investment in the outcome. Maybe I'm just a heartless bitch, but I'm not going in for all the emotional pleas for clemency. If only they'd thought about the potential consequences when sitting around a table running the math on how much money they'd make on their dope. I do, however, feel for their families, who are suffering for the mistakes of their sons/brothers/husbands.

Once Australia gets over it, and you know that's going to happen, Indonesia's executions will barely crack the news cycle.

Out of curiosity, whatever happened to the AFP officers that dobbed them in? Were they fired? Charged? Did they just go about their business? Indignation is all well and good, but you have to apply it equally. It's like someone having a go at their sibling's bully, saying "It's only okay when we mess with them."

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

Tony should say anything he can at this point to save those guys. They are only about a week or so away from the executions IIRC, so at this point if anyone can do anything, now is the time to do it.
Executing serial killer and terrorists is ok in my book, but its too extreme of a punishment for drug dealers.

 

[Saintguine]

The Western driven War on Drug backfires hard.

nope, we'll be just fine

more over, other Australians have also been executed in other ASEAN country like Singapore and Malaysia because of drug trafficking and I dont recalled them boycotting those two countries in the past

My god, you poor people must have a hard time dealing with our bogans during their drunk party season.

 

[ponpo]

Australia has been pursuing an eleventh-hour campaign to save the lives of Myuran Sukumaran, 33, and Andrew Chan, 31, two members of the so-called Bali Nine, convicted in 2005 as the ringleaders of a plot to smuggle heroin out of Indonesia.

They were just trying to rid the country of drugs.

 

[Dryk]

This entire situation is so messed up. Those two are a valuable asset to the Indonesian prison system now, it makes no sense to kill them.

Yeah I have no idea why he is using that to hit them over the head, especially over two scumbags. Abbott is just a terrible PM all round. Saying that, it is sad to see Indonesians on social media denigrating Australians and calling them arrogant and ignorant when the Australia public really pulled out the stops to help Indonesians at that time.

He's been trying to act tougher since his brush with political death. It's just making him look worse.

 

[airmangataosenai]

i don't know about this particular issue, but Australia does seem ridiculously arrogant and needlessly combative in their dealings with their neighbors in Asia.

 

[rrvv]

Indonesia has already released every terrorist responsible for the Bali bombings which killed 92 Australians and does virtually nothing to stop human smugglers filling half broken boats full off asylum seekers and send them to Australia. It's hardly a one way issue.

Tony Abbott needs to learn when to shut the fuck up though.

At same time they also execute the leader of those bombing. Is not like the executing every drug dealer in Indonesia.

Also one can argue drug kill and ruin more people in Indonesia than Bali bombing

 

[Dryk]

i don't know about this particular issue, but Australia does seem ridiculously arrogant and needlessly combative in their dealings with their neighbors in Asia.

We're the biggest (physically) and whitest country in the area. For some reason that gives us the idea that we can throw our weight around. I think on some level we still perceive Indonesia as a shit-hole that could never touch us if it tried.

 

[Jintor]

Do you think Abbott would get it if Indonesia was like you come to our country you should obey our laws

 

[XavandSo]

Absolutely disgusting what's going on with these two. Indonesia should adopt a policy of rehabilitation and not punishment in their legal system. I don't care if they are a sovereign country, it's wrong.

Abbott should have the balls to cut off all economic and political ties to Indonesia out of this. That includes the $600 million in yearly aid we give them. For once, I support the bigger nation exerting their jingoistic influence. It's wrong.

I really thought Jokowi would bring in a new era for Indonesia. I partied for him and everything on their election date.

 

[Saintguine]

Absolutely disgusting what's going on with these two. Indonesia should adopt a policy of rehabilitation and not punishment in their legal system. I don't care if they are a sovereign country, it's wrong.

Ummm, not to say that I like Indonesia's legal system but our legal system is far from anything good like Norway's legal system.

 

[XavandSo]

Ummm, not to say that I like Indonesia's legal system but our legal system is far from anything good like Norway's legal system.

We don't have the death penalty. That's a start.

 

[Jintor]

Absolutely disgusting what's going on with these two. Indonesia should adopt a policy of rehabilitation and not punishment in their legal system. I don't care if they are a sovereign country, it's wrong.

Abbott should have the balls to cut off all economic and political ties to Indonesia out of this. That includes the $600 million in yearly aid we give them. For once, I support the bigger nation exerting their jingoistic influence. It's wrong.

I really thought Jokowi would bring in a new era for Indonesia. I partied for him and everything on their election date.

bye malaysia and singapore

china too maybe, if you're not gonna be hypocritical

 

[Dryk]

What about the US? What about China? What about Japan? It's a cute sentiment but if we start trying to cut ties over the death penalty we're going to find ourselves very alone.

 

[Saintguine]

We don't have the death penalty. That's a start.

That's like saying horse shit without maggots is better than horse shit with maggots. It's slightly better but at the end of the day they're both shit.

 

[Darklord]

Also one can argue drug kill and ruin more people in Indonesia than Bali bombing

One can also argue that terrorist extremists that happily murder 202 people you shouldn't be let out of jail.

 

[Soph]

Maybe the Dutch should assert some pressure over Great Britain to let their colony leave our colony alone!

 

[XavandSo]

bye malaysia and singapore

I was just as pissed when Van Tuong Nguyen was killed in 2005 in Singapore. Said the same things then too.

That's like saying horse shit without maggots is better than horse shit with maggots. It's slightly better but at the end of the day they're both shit.

Granted, I don't know much of Indonesian law, but rehabilitation is far more effective than punishment.These guys actually helped out the prison they were in, lock them up for the rest of their lives, but killing them is such a waste.

 

[shootfast]

Ummm, not to say that I like Indonesia's legal system but our legal system is far from anything good like Norway's legal system.

Sure we are not up there with the nordic countries but we are 8th in the world, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/13/rule-of-law-index-world-justice-project_n_875595.html we have a pretty damn good legal system so don't knock it.

 

[danm999]

I really wish Abbott had kept his beak out and left it to Bishop because he seems to be only making a bad situation worse, but I suspect he feels after his own near 'execution' last week he feels he needs to project strength or something hence his very ill advised comments.

 

[i_am_ben]

Abbott's comments are just astonishingly stupid. Saying this public can only set back efforts to save the men's lives.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Abbott is swinging so hard at everything to latch onto the zeitgeist in order to show that he cares.

Will be so glad once this idiot is out of office.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

At same time they also execute the leader of those bombing. Is not like the executing every drug dealer in Indonesia.

Also one can argue drug kill and ruin more people in Indonesia than Bali bombing

It should be noted that these two are reformed individuals and were hardly drug "kingpins" in the first place. They were also attempting to smuggle drugs into Australia, not Indonesia. Finally, Indonesia has made numerous representations in the past to get its citizens removed from death row in foreign nations.

Maybe the Dutch should assert some pressure over Great Britain to let their colony leave our colony alone!

Brazil and Netherlands recall Indonesia ambassadors over drug executions

 

[Kenshin001]

Absolutely disgusting what's going on with these two. Indonesia should adopt a policy of rehabilitation and not punishment in their legal system. I don't care if they are a sovereign country, it's wrong.

Abbott should have the balls to cut off all economic and political ties to Indonesia out of this. That includes the $600 million in yearly aid we give them. For once, I support the bigger nation exerting their jingoistic influence. It's wrong.

I really thought Jokowi would bring in a new era for Indonesia. I partied for him and everything on their election date.

That is crazy talk. The economic ties with Indonesia and maintaining an amicable relationship are far, far more important than the lives of a couple of drug pushers. The government should have registered an objection diplomatically to placate the public and left it that.

 

[Polari]

They'll be executed, the papers and politicians will moan for a bit and then everything will go back to normal.

 

[hamchan]

Oh my god get rid of this PM already! He keeps saying stupid things so often, it's crazy. What a fucking dick to hold the tsunami aid over their heads.

Also, I don't think we should be ruining our relations with a country over two guilty drug dealers who knew the laws of Indonesia before they went in, but that's just me.

 

[Ban Puncher]

Tony Abbott desperately trying to score easy polling points but instead comes off looking like a dickhead?

I WA SHOCK

 

[PhantomZone]

I think they should be executed as they broke the law of that country thus they should face punishment for it, sucks that it's the death penalty BUT that's why you don't commit crimes in the first place. Actions have consequences.

 

[XavandSo]

Finally, Indonesia has made numerous representations in the past to get its citizens removed from death row in foreign nations.

This is the one thing I don't get. Indonesia gets offended when other nations ask for their citizens not to be put to death, but then do exactly that when their citizens get the death penalty somewhere else. If they don't like it, why don't they get rid of it completely in their country? The hypocrisy.

I think they should be executed as they broke the law of that country thus they should face punishment for it, sucks that it's the death penalty BUT that's why you don't commit crimes in the first place. Actions have consequences.

Except when it's barbaric and should have no place in the 21st century?

 

[Jintor]

This is the one thing I don't get. Indonesia gets offended when other nations ask for their citizens not to be put to death, but then do exactly that when their citizens get the death penalty somewhere else. If they don't like it, why don't they get rid of it completely in their country? The hypocrisy.

Of course, if we're going to talk hypocrisy, Australia may not have a direct execution parallel but it's pretty bad optics to plead for the lives of two drug mules with one side of the face and then to say the Human Rights Commission should be thanking Scott Morrison for locking up all them damn kids with the other

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I think they should be executed as they broke the law of that country thus they should face punishment for it, sucks that it's the death penalty BUT that's why you don't commit crimes in the first place. Actions have consequences.

Gross.