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[David Incorporated Esq.]

Fast FWDs are tuned for front end grip so when you lift the rear can snap.

I'm not sure what part of the ring that was, but if you unsettle it the rear end can snap in pretty much any car.

Looks like the foxhole, a very fast section with a rise up into a left turn over a crest. Mix late braking with too much steering and that rear end is going to gently float away from the road.

And DivineRage002, what happens is that you get on the brakes or lift off the throttle and the weight comes off of the back tires and onto the fronts. All of a sudden the front end has much more grip for turning and the rear end loses its road holding, leading to a real fast spin. It's called lift off oversteer and it's a big part of getting a FWD car around a track.

Chris Harris to the rescue! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBYSl3dD-UQ

 

[DivineRage002]

Looks like the foxhole, a very fast section with a rise up into a left turn over a crest. Mix late braking with too much steering and that rear end is going to gently float away from the road.

And DivineRage002, what happens is that you get on the brakes or lift off the throttle and the weight comes off of the back tires and onto the fronts. All of a sudden the front end has much more grip for turning and the rear end loses its road holding, leading to a real fast spin. It's called lift off oversteer and it's a big part of getting a FWD car around a track.

Chris Harris to the rescue! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBYSl3dD-UQ

Makes sense.

 

[Ty4on]

Chris Harris to the rescue! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBYSl3dD-UQ

How could I forget that video. I love seeing what is usually a shopping cart going sideways.

Edit: Ahh, I recognize foxhole, usually where I hit top speed with slower cars thanks to the long hill. Seems a bit counter intuitive when you should have more grip than usual at the bottom, but I guess that is because the high speed will cause most people to lift off and I'm guessing the suspension can rebound as well when the load goes away.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Yeah, they're coming out of that really fast downhill with more speed than they realize and are lifting while getting the car into the turn over the crest. I guess it's because you can take the dip as one long left hander that tightens at the end, and if you don't balance the car before the turn you'll be fucked.

Mid-Ohio has a turn like that where you have more speed than you realize with a long right hander that tightens at the end after a braking zone. One of the guys in a class I was in spun off during that because he was trying to push it and ended up lifting without straightening out. Must have been wonderful for the instructor when he looked in his mirror to see only one car when previously there had been two.

Edit: It's actually my favorite turn there because the car gets hilariously unbalanced in it. Always a struggle to push it but feels so good when you get it right.

 

[sgjackson]

I'm sure someone's already talked about this but:

A single cab F-150 with the short box weighs 4200 pounds with the 380hp v8. These are similar specs to the Challenger R/T, which obviously is kind of a pig, but this is still hilarious. It's like 30k list for basic amenities (power windows/locks, carpeting) and the tow package for the LSD/shorter gearing.

I want a dumbass sleeper muscle truck help me GAF.

 

[TheAbsolution]

I'm sure someone's already talked about this but:

A single cab F-150 with the short box weighs 4200 pounds with the 380hp v8. These are similar specs to the Challenger R/T, which obviously is kind of a pig, but this is still hilarious. It's like 30k list for basic amenities (power windows/locks, carpeting) and the tow package for the LSD/shorter gearing.

I want a dumbass sleeper muscle truck help me GAF.

Why not get the Ecoboost version? Do you really need all of that power?

 

[sgjackson]

Why not get the Ecoboost version? Do you really need all of that power?

this isn't a question of "need" this is a question of "awesome"

it did cross my mind, though. the ecoboost is lighter and has even shorter gearing, which might make up for the horsepower loss (in addition to general gas mileage-related livability improvement)

 

[TheAbsolution]

this isn't a question of "need" this is a question of "awesome"

it did cross my mind, though. the ecoboost is lighter and has even shorter gearing, which might make up for the horsepower loss (in addition to general gas mileage-related livability improvement)

It's only about a 20 HP difference. I've driven the Ecoboost engine and it's very very good. I'd say at the very least go and check it out.

 

[sgjackson]

It's only about a 20 HP difference. I've driven the Ecoboost engine and it's very very good. I'd say at the very least go and check it out.

yeah if i could get the 3.5l ecoboost in a short bed i'd do that cause that's a no-brainer, but ford only offers it in single cabs with the long bed, which i don't really want. so it's either the 2.7l ecoboost or the v8, which is more like a 60hp difference.

 

[TheAbsolution]

yeah if i could get the 3.5l ecoboost in a short bed i'd do that cause that's a no-brainer, but ford only offers it in single cabs with the long bed, which i don't really want. so it's either the 2.7l ecoboost or the v8, which is more like a 60hp difference.

Whats wrong with the long bed?

 

[sgjackson]

Whats wrong with the long bed?

it looks disproportionate and i feel like it'd handle worse. i don't really stick a ton of shit in a truck bed so i don't really need it so i feel like it'd just be a general negative in around-town usability. might be wrong, though.

 

[RukusProvider]

I finally got some footage of me driving! For me, it was a cool perspective to have and see how my lines are from a different angle.

We started picking up the pace quickly were the two fastest cars out there aside from a Porsche cup car.

My car is stock with poly bushings and running Cup 2's on their 2nd day. He's got some track mods and running fresh Hoosier R7's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbyVvgIu7dk

Enjoy! Track is Thunderhill in Norcal

 

[killertofu]

So I got the RSX, it's great buuuut

This isn't fixable is it?

 

[Evo X]

So I got the RSX, it's great buuuut


This isn't fixable is it?

Nope. Would require a respray to fix that.

 

[killertofu]

Nope. Would require a respray to fix that.

What a bummer. Idk if I want to get it resprayed. I mean technically I don't have to pay anything for the car itself and I see myself using it up until it dies (hopefully in 4 years)

Would you guys take the plunge?

 

[TheAbsolution]

Just a small note, if you've got a 2015 Sonata and you have the larger screen, you can go to your dealer to get the Android Auto update.

 

[Taborcarn]

Just a small note, if you've got a 2015 Sonata and you have the larger screen, you can go to your dealer to get the Android Auto update.

Sweet, I've got exactly that (the 1.8t Eco model). I've been waiting for this announcement.

 

[matmanx1]

I'm sure someone's already talked about this but:

A single cab F-150 with the short box weighs 4200 pounds with the 380hp v8. These are similar specs to the Challenger R/T, which obviously is kind of a pig, but this is still hilarious. It's like 30k list for basic amenities (power windows/locks, carpeting) and the tow package for the LSD/shorter gearing.

I want a dumbass sleeper muscle truck help me GAF.

I actually thought about that recently. What I would do is get a Toyota Tundra with the 5.7L V8 and then order the supercharger from the TRD parts catalog which is a bolt on item. Car and Driver did a first drive review of such a truck and liked it. 500'ish HP 550 Torque in a short bed pickup. 4.7 secs 0 to 60 would embarrass a bunch of stuff.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/toyota-tundra-trd-supercharged-first-drive-review

 

[sgjackson]

I actually thought about that recently. What I would do is get a Toyota Tundra with the 5.7L V8 and then order the supercharger from the TRD parts catalog which is a bolt on item. Car and Driver did a first drive review of such a truck and liked it. 500'ish HP 550 Torque in a short bed pickup. 4.7 secs 0 to 60 would embarrass a bunch of stuff.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/toyota-tundra-trd-supercharged-first-drive-review

this is definitely speaking my language. the f-150 being a relatively new model makes it hard to find aftermarket parts for but i bet in a year you could put together something similar.

new tundra weighs a shitload, though. part of the appeal of the f-150 is the aluminum making it so damned light in comparison.

 

[TheAbsolution]

Had to share this - Dude on Reddit took a cross country trip in a Challenger Hellcat. Took some pretty freaking cool photos.
http://imgur.com/a/KRklg#0

 

[ameratsu]

What a bummer. Idk if I want to get it resprayed. I mean technically I don't have to pay anything for the car itself and I see myself using it up until it dies (hopefully in 4 years)

Would you guys take the plunge?

Nope. IIRC your RSX is a base auto. Definitely not worth respraying.

 

[Makki]

I don't know why Im taking the news so personally given that the chances of me buying one weren't that high but I'm really ticked off that Mazda decided to not bring the much needed Mazda 2 refresh to the US because we are getting that god awful Scion rebrand 4 door monstrosity iA.
I was looking forward to the new 2... http://www.autoblog.com/2015/05/25/2016-mazda2-wont-come-to-us-report/

 

[mkenyon]

this is definitely speaking my language. the f-150 being a relatively new model makes it hard to find aftermarket parts for but i bet in a year you could put together something similar.

new tundra weighs a shitload, though. part of the appeal of the f-150 is the aluminum making it so damned light in comparison.

So I've driven a number of new Chevy trucks with V8s that are supposedly around the same power as my wife's Tundra. None of them feel nearly as muscley or powerful as it. It's touchy powerful, like you need to carefully use the beast. The newer trucks all feel like tamed powerful animals, by comparison. If that makes any sense. Hers is the longbed too.

Also, I typically hate driving Toyotas. I had a Tacoma TRD V6 that I grew to despise after the initial new car happiness wore off. Every other Toyota that I've driven (outside of the AWD Celica and a MR2 Turbo), I've hated as well. The Tundra really retains that TRUCK feeling, and being the best kind of TRUCK that it can be. All the new trucks feel like glorified SUVs with velvet engines, IMO.

 

[m_shortpants]

I finally got some footage of me driving! For me, it was a cool perspective to have and see how my lines are from a different angle.

We started picking up the pace quickly were the two fastest cars out there aside from a Porsche cup car.

My car is stock with poly bushings and running Cup 2's on their 2nd day. He's got some track mods and running fresh Hoosier R7's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbyVvgIu7dk

Enjoy! Track is Thunderhill in Norcal

Nice! I'm in the Bay Area and read your post and thought, "whoa, a track in Nor cal! I need to see where this is!" And you were right. Damn that is NOR freaking Cal. Even further than Sac! Need to find something closer to here

 

[djSyndrome]

I don't know why Im taking the news so personally given that the chances of me buying one weren't that high but I'm really ticked off that Mazda decided to not bring the much needed Mazda 2 refresh to the US because we are getting that god awful Scion rebrand 4 door monstrosity iA.
I was looking forward to the new 2... http://www.autoblog.com/2015/05/25/2016-mazda2-wont-come-to-us-report/

The original 2 was a fantastic car - put almost 40k on my '12 before trading it in. No other subcompact handled as well, even if it did lack power.

The next Yaris is supposedly going to be a 2 with different skin.

 

[RukusProvider]

Nice! I'm in the Bay Area and read your post and thought, "whoa, a track in Nor cal! I need to see where this is!" And you were right. Damn that is NOR freaking Cal. Even further than Sac! Need to find something closer to here

Sonoma is pretty much in the heart of the bay area and a world class track. Thill is nice because I can attend private days with unlimited running and only 25 cars total. For me it's about a 1.5hr drive each way.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

I finally got some footage of me driving! For me, it was a cool perspective to have and see how my lines are from a different angle.

We started picking up the pace quickly were the two fastest cars out there aside from a Porsche cup car.

My car is stock with poly bushings and running Cup 2's on their 2nd day. He's got some track mods and running fresh Hoosier R7's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbyVvgIu7dk

Enjoy! Track is Thunderhill in Norcal

Awesome. Brutal noise out of that thing.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Took my M56S in for a small recall (fuel sensors not torque correctly for some cars) and asked the dealer to check my transmission and transmission software. Shifts are occasionally weird, not quite how they are on other Nissan/Infiniti 7ATs (370Z, Q50, etc). Sure enough they found that the car had trans fluid overfilled from the factory...

by 1 quart.

Now over filling engine oil by that much usually isn't very noticeable at all. Or terribly problematic. But a transmission? That's a huge error. My line pressure was always wonky, as a result (which I've long suspected), and the torque converter wasn't operating properly. Anyways, it's all fixed now. I've decided to leave the car at the dealer to also repaint my front bumper (rock chipped to shit).

 

[jongkookie]

I don't know why Im taking the news so personally given that the chances of me buying one weren't that high but I'm really ticked off that Mazda decided to not bring the much needed Mazda 2 refresh to the US because we are getting that god awful Scion rebrand 4 door monstrosity iA.
I was looking forward to the new 2... http://www.autoblog.com/2015/05/25/2016-mazda2-wont-come-to-us-report/

The CX-3 exists for this reason alone. It doesn't make sense for Mazda to sell a 2 due to the partnership. Now if it was a more specialized car like the Toyobaru then they definitely could split it. But as a subcompact? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to pit the two against each other as they'll make profit from it one way or the other. It'll just cost more for Mazda to transport the car here instead of using the shipping space the 2 could've taken and ship more CX-5's or 6's as they're very very profitable.

That said, I do agree though that they should've at least sent some over here since they're already selling then in Puerto Rico anyway. But if not selling it here means that we'll actually get Mazdaspeed versions of the 3,6 and Miata, as well as the new RX-7 then I'm all for it.

 

[Jackson]

I finally got some footage of me driving! For me, it was a cool perspective to have and see how my lines are from a different angle.

We started picking up the pace quickly were the two fastest cars out there aside from a Porsche cup car.

My car is stock with poly bushings and running Cup 2's on their 2nd day. He's got some track mods and running fresh Hoosier R7's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbyVvgIu7dk

Enjoy! Track is Thunderhill in Norcal

That was fun to watch. I got Chik-fil-A for lunch and watched this while I ate. I felt like I needed a .45 1911 in my other hand. 'Murica!

A lot of people were taking it easy. That 911 was like meh... wave on!

Were you running with a novice group? Or was it novice/intermediate mixed? Or just full mixed?

Also that Corvette in front of you loved to get squirrely on some turns. Dude was suspect. lol

That double apex in the beginning of the track is pretty epic though.

Car sounds great. MT ftw!

 

[op_ivy]

Nice! I'm in the Bay Area and read your post and thought, "whoa, a track in Nor cal! I need to see where this is!" And you were right. Damn that is NOR freaking Cal. Even further than Sac! Need to find something closer to here

willows? nah, i'm a few hours north of that (and still in cali!)

cool vid btw. i'd love to go out for a track day

 

[RukusProvider]

That was fun to watch. I got Chik-fil-A for lunch and watched this while I ate. I felt like I needed a .45 1911 in my other hand. 'Murica!

A lot of people were taking it easy. That 911 was like meh... wave on!

Were you running with a novice group? Or was it novice/intermediate mixed? Or just full mixed?

Also that Corvette in front of you loved to get squirrely on some turns. Dude was suspect. lol

That double apex in the beginning of the track is pretty epic though.

Car sounds great. MT ftw!

lol I'm in the car infront! For me, it was first time I've gotten to see myself driving from behind. Glad you enjoyed it though.

The car doing the filming is the modded one with Hoosiers. He ran a best of 1:54 that day and I ran a 1:53.9 which is 3 seconds off the NASA TT record done in a race prepped C5 Z06. Here's some incar from my perspective of the last couple of laps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Mi3p8Y7uOI

With a better driver high 1:51's should be doable in my car which is crazy seeing that it's basically stock.

It was a private day with 25 cars. Thus it was open track and you can get on/off whenever you want. Mix of talent. Under 2:00 at Thill is generally considered a respectable time.

 

[FStop7]

Nice! I'm in the Bay Area and read your post and thought, "whoa, a track in Nor cal! I need to see where this is!" And you were right. Damn that is NOR freaking Cal. Even further than Sac! Need to find something closer to here

Sonoma Raceway.

Laguna Seca.

 

[Crisco]

This is a strange feeling.

I feel both deeply sorry for the guy having totaled what I'm sure was a dream car for him after just buying it and also thinking he's a massive tool...

Weird, that's the second third video of a C7 I've seen dramatically veer while just accelerating in a straight line. Between that and reports of engines blowing up with almost no miles on them ........ eh not for $70K. F80 M3 for me.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

By the way, RukusProvider, how did that guy have the audio set up in his car? I'm hooopefully going out Sunday for a track day and I'll have a brand new gopro with me, but I was curious about how to do placement so it's not all wind noise all the time.

Weird, that's the second third video of a C7 I've seen dramatically veer while just accelerating in a straight line. Between that and reports of engines blowing up with almost no miles on them ........ eh not for $70K. F80 M3 for me.

Most people have no idea how to drive a high power RWD car. What happened is that he shifted into second, punched it, spun the tires up, got a little sideways, then did the worst thing you can do and let off the gas. As soon as he let off the gas the tires got traction, but they got traction while he was turned and the car zipped off to the side. It happens all the time to newbie drivers and it's almost too predictable. Honestly, cars like the corvette--relatively cheap with lots of power--should require driver training before allowing you to turn the traction control off.

 

[RukusProvider]

By the way, how did that guy have the audio set up in his car? I'm hooopefully going out Sunday for a track day and I'll have a brand new gopro with me, but I was curious about how to do placement so it's not all wind noise all the time.

Most people have no idea how to drive a high power RWD car. What happened is that he shifted into second, punched it, spun the tires up, got a little sideways, then did the worst thing you can do and let off the gas. As soon as he let off the gas the tires got traction, but they got traction while he was turned and the car zipped off to the side. It happens all the time to newbie drivers and it's almost too predictable. Honestly, cars like the corvette--relatively cheap with lots of power--should require driver training before allowing you to turn the traction control off

He had the mic on the rear bumper above the exhaust thus the loud sound you're getting and no wind noise. His car didn't violate the 103db sound check or anything.

The drive also made no effort to counter steer. I honestly feel the new nannies are really creating a false sense of confidence out there for drivers jumping into high performance cars. If the system were to disable itself or malfunction, I'm not sure if many would know how to react and recover. I'm not saying the systems should be removed, just that the drivers should be as comfortable driving the car without them as with.

 

[Crisco]

Most people have no idea how to drive a high power RWD car. What happened is that he shifted into second, punched it, spun the tires up, got a little sideways, then did the worst thing you can do and let off the gas. As soon as he let off the gas the tires got traction, but they got traction while he was turned and the car zipped off to the side. It happens all the time to newbie drivers and it's almost too predictable. Honestly, cars like the corvette--relatively cheap with lots of power--should require driver training before allowing you to turn the traction control off.

Weird, you can turn off the traction control, but you'd think the electronic diff at least would be smart enough to stop the car from going sideways on a WOT shift. I agree in general though, the kid probably freaked out when the rear wheels broke loose. Happened to me in a turbo'd Civic my friend and I built, but with an open diff (and fwd) all it did was leave a nice single black stripe down the middle of the street lol.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

He had the mic on the rear bumper above the exhaust thus the loud sound you're getting and no wind noise. His car didn't violate the 103db sound check or anything.

The drive also made no effort to counter steer. I honestly feel the new nannies are really creating a false sense of confidence out there for drivers jumping into high performance cars. If the system were to disable itself or malfunction, I'm not sure if many would know how to react and recover. I'm not saying the systems should be removed, just that the drivers should be as comfortable driving the car without them as with.

Hmmm.... I'd better pick up a mic with a long cord then, because that sounded pretty fantastic (and I wanna hear my car from the outside, dangit).

 

[jongkookie]

Honestly, cars like the corvette--relatively cheap with lots of power--should require driver training before allowing you to turn the traction control off.

Agreed.

I've seen it happen in a somewhat stock Miata(mine), where I could feel a loss of grip in the rear. But it's only happened in wet roads or when I still had shit tires.

But yeah, there has to be some kind of driver training for these noobs or at least make it a complicated way to turn off TCS or something... hell, they could like hide it in the manual kinda like an easter egg so you're forced to read it and acknowledge that if you fnck up, then you only have yourself to blame.

 

[mmazurkiewicz]

Weird, that's the second third video of a C7 I've seen dramatically veer while just accelerating in a straight line. Between that and reports of engines blowing up with almost no miles on them ........ eh not for $70K. F80 M3 for me.

So I mentioned earlier that I'd try launch control at 2500rpm in my F80...

Yeh I definitely veered side to side. I was able to hold it though and let go after a while .

I'm not sure if it was surface, tire temp, or the apparently undersized rear tires, but I should have tested this in a parking lot and not taken the risk like the Z06 guy.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Yeah the going side to side is normal, it just takes people off guard when they're already doing 50mph in second gear so they panic and let off the gas, then blamo. If you countersteer and keep the wheels pointed straight ahead you'll be fine so long as you don't jump off the gas.

 

[sgjackson]

I actually thought about that recently. What I would do is get a Toyota Tundra with the 5.7L V8 and then order the supercharger from the TRD parts catalog which is a bolt on item. Car and Driver did a first drive review of such a truck and liked it. 500'ish HP 550 Torque in a short bed pickup. 4.7 secs 0 to 60 would embarrass a bunch of stuff.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/toyota-tundra-trd-supercharged-first-drive-review

watched a supercharger install video for funsies (roush into a new mustang, figured it was the closest i could find to a video for the new f-150 given they're both the 5.0) and i would definitely not feel comfortable doing that on my own. there's a lot of shit like grinding down parts of the engine and modifying hoses/wiring harnesses i would not feel comfortable with doing at my level of mechanical experience. the trd part may be different, but if i was looking into that i'd get a shop to do it.

 

[Evo X]

So I mentioned earlier that I'd try launch control at 2500rpm in my F80...

 

[grkazan12]

Hey everyone, what does Gaf think about the W124 series of Mercedes automobiles? Specifically the 1993 version.

Recently found a 93 Mercedes Benz 300E with 125,000 miles, Automatic, 3.2L I6, and rear wheel drive. Looks like pic related except with Tan interior and headlight wipers.

Guy is selling it for about $4,000.

 

[mmazurkiewicz]

Evo, that dude turned DSC off and tried to floor it on his own. With LC you turn DSC off but the computer does the work to help avoid shit like that gif. But I'm sure you know this already.

Funny you posted that as I was actually thinking about that incident earlier today. That dude has left a bad mark on F80/F82 owners.

Oh man, that gif also looks like he's ollieing the median with his car. hahaha.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Evo, that dude turned DSC off and tried to floor it on his own. With LC you turn DSC off but the computer does the work to help avoid shit like that gif. But I'm sure you know this already.

Don't count on the computers to keep your car straight, at some point they won't keep up and you'll be boned.

 

[jongkookie]

Dunno if it was posted already but the 2016 Shelby Mustang GT350 can be had for a measly $47,870. Now if you want the GT350R instead, you'll have to pony up $61,370 instead.

Flat pane V8 making at least 500 ponies and 400 ft/lb torque, 6-speed manual, magnetic ride on top of the independent suspension... and all for about $65K?

It's no Hellcat, and it should be better than a Z/28... so where do I sign up?!

 

[sgjackson]

Dunno if it was posted already but the 2016 Shelby Mustang GT350 can be had for a measly $47,870. Now if you want the GT350R instead, you'll have to pony up $61,370 instead.

Flat pane V8 making at least 500 ponies and 400 ft/lb torque, 6-speed manual, magnetic ride on top of the independent suspension... and all for about $65K?

It's no Hellcat, and it should be better than a Z/28... so where do I sign up?!

is there any way these things sell close to sticker in the near future

 

[Jackson]

is there any way these things sell close to sticker in the near future

Negative. $20k markup minimum early on.

Also the R is super limited.

 

[jongkookie]

Negative. $20k markup minimum early on.

Also the R is super limited.

Yeah, and no A/C for the R lolol.

I'm hoping the magnetic ride also comes with the standard GT350, whether an option or not. If it does... it just might become my new favorite muscle car. Otherwise, the Hellcat still remains king for me lol.