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Automotive Discussion Thread | OT2 | Zero to pointless fighting faster than a GT86
- Thread starter AlphaSnake
- Start date
I don't think there is one. I think it is more of a case where Honda is using an existing, off the shelf car and saying "look how bonkers we can make this and it's still front wheel drive!".
If they were designing it from the ground up it would be more like the S2000, I am sure, and be rear wheel drive all the way.
The exciting part is not that they are making a FWD sports car, it is that they are making a Type R car and that is will be available pretty much worldwide.
m_shortpants
Member
Well, it's a hot hatch so I guess the only alternative would be AWD really, and it says in the article they wanted to save weight.
I'd like another S2K but in due time hopefully...
Maybe it's just for the engineering? "We can make a FWS hatch go 7:50 round the nurgburgring"
FWD is lighter and has more traction than RWD. It's also the cheapest option to build and repair.
But handling will always be worse than RWD.
For a sports car though? It's not better. For an economy car it's better. Better gas mileage. Cheaper to purchase. Cheaper to repair. Better traction in bad weather.
mmazurkiewicz
Member
It doesn't have more traction on a Porsche does it?
m_shortpants
Member
Just for comparison, the Golf R did an 8:15 at the ring, and that's AWD. The Civic did 7.50. Pretty impressive result. That's also faster than the original R35 GTR and Ferrari F430.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
FWD cars are lighter, cheaper to produce and leave more room in the car since you don't have to worry about the driveshaft, diff and axles of a RWD car. They're also easier to control in inclement weather.
33-Hit-Combo
Member
I think it's just the easiest way they can make a fast car without investing in a whole new platform and all the associated development work.
I don't think it's really possible to compare FWD/RWD for traction as the suspension will be designed around this, plus engine position.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I think he just means low-speed traction, like trying to get moving on ice.
33-Hit-Combo
Member
Oh yeah, generally FWD wins with the weight being biased to the front axle.
I think it's important to emphasize the packaging advantage that dave mentioned. A fwd hatch like the CTR has a lot more cargo room than a rwd/awd hatch/coupe.
If you can have a quiver of cars for whatever purpose you desire, or if you have no need to transport anything larger than a set of golf clubs, fwd is a pointless thing for plebs and economy cars. For everyone else, your only car having a joke for a trunk (cough cough 370z) isn't really an option.
If you can have a quiver of cars for whatever purpose you desire, or if you have no need to transport anything larger than a set of golf clubs, fwd is a pointless thing for plebs and economy cars. For everyone else, your only car having a joke for a trunk (cough cough 370z) isn't really an option.
Yes! All 2015 Porsche's have a proprietary system called (PTPE) or Porsche Traction Placebo Effect. It maximizes the inflation of your perception of your car's traction capabilities.
Haha! Porsche should totally trademark this and include it for free with every new vehicle purchase.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I fit a TON of stuff into my 370Z when I was moving from NYC to Florida and drove it all the way down. Clothing/suitcases, game consoles, games, laptops, etc. Grocery shopping was also never a problem. The 350Z wouldn't have been able to accommodate because of the bar, but the 370Z rarely gave me any issues.
I couldn't fit my bike or a pair of snowboards. I mean, I probably could fit snowboards if i rode a shorter board and tetris'd them in there, but i'd rather not have to do that after a day of riding. Even with the front wheel removed, I couldn't even close to fit my bike inside the hatch.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Well...yeah...I couldn't fit a bike into my M56 or Jag either. Hahaha
mmazurkiewicz
Member
Hey you guys remember that youtube video of a M4 driver who jumped a curb?
I tried beating him today. Thankfully I lost that fight.
I tried beating him today. Thankfully I lost that fight.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Well... I picked up a new daily...
If it's just like this for the North American market, sign my ass up!!!
If it's just like this for the North American market, sign my ass up!!!
Congrats! The resale value on these cars is insane, you can probably sell it in 5 years with 120k kilometers for like 28k lol.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Not true. RWD is better in snow. I've driven every drive train in the snow through multiple winters except MR. FF is by far the worst. The weight on the front axle makes no difference in terms of traction. The second you start to accelerate the weight shift to the rear and the car struggles.
Winter Cars I've owned for reference:
-1992 Ford Taurus
-1999 Impreza Sport
-2004 Ultima
-1990 240SX
-1998 2.5 RS
-2002 Toyota Echo
The 240SX was the best car in the snow. 2.5 was the second.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
There is no advantage. None. It's literally inferior to every other drive train. Anything you can say an FF has an advantage in an MR has the exact same advantage but without any of it's weaknesses. This is why I say if you are serious about getting a sports car you don't settle for a front wheel drive.
How do you guys feel about driving stick in cities or traffic occasionally? Buying a MT instead of an AT or DCT seems easier in terms of availability and cheaper in price (more so for DCT). If I'm still in NYC, I'll probably be driving mostly in Queen and Brooklyn and the highways, not so much in Manhattan. If I'm outside of NYC, I think I'll be fine.
Would winter tires solve the problem with RWD in snow? I brought up the idea of getting a BRZ and my friend said it'll be bad in snow. After some quick research, I told him about the winter tires and he replied saying that they're expensive and get worn out quick. Any insight on this?
With so many choices out there, I've been flip flopping between multiple cars choices..
Would winter tires solve the problem with RWD in snow? I brought up the idea of getting a BRZ and my friend said it'll be bad in snow. After some quick research, I told him about the winter tires and he replied saying that they're expensive and get worn out quick. Any insight on this?
With so many choices out there, I've been flip flopping between multiple cars choices..
Cow Mengde
Banned
Got a hands on of the new 2016 Explorer. It's a Sport model with ecoboost engine. Only the dash board feels different. The interior is kind of disappointing in that it just feels the same. The redesigned Edge feels very different when you sit in it.
Oh and Ford got cheap with the USB and line-in ports. There used to be 2 USB and 1 line-in. Now it's 1 USB 0 line-in.
Oh and Ford got cheap with the USB and line-in ports. There used to be 2 USB and 1 line-in. Now it's 1 USB 0 line-in.
whatsinaname
Member
MT City driving - It is a personal thing. I drove stick when I lived in Bombay, a city with some of the slowest moving traffic in the world. Never had the urge to get an automatic.
RWD + Snow tires - Have been driving a BRZ in Michgan for 2 winters. I feel more in control than when I was driving my older FWD the few winters before that. But I do see it being a problem if you live in an area where the city doesn't plough and salt the roads frequently. Not due to RWD but due to ground clearance.
Winter tires aren't really that expensive, and of course using them means that you're not putting miles on your summer tires, so those last longer too.
I'd say the cost of going with winters + summers on my Mazdaspeed 3 has mostly been a wash over the long term, with better handling in both seasons to boot.
I'd say the cost of going with winters + summers on my Mazdaspeed 3 has mostly been a wash over the long term, with better handling in both seasons to boot.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
As someone who's driven a RWD in the snow I can tell you they are not bad at all. My S13 was the best handling winter car I ever had. I put put wider bigger snows in the rear, smaller up front, a different alignment, and I dropped 4 bags on kitty litter in the trunk for a better weight balance. Car never got stuck, never had problems going up hills, turned on a dime in the worst of weather.
However I could see how if you are not an experience driver it could be dangerous for you driving a RWD in the snow.
Also snows make an world of difference not matter what car you have. But I really wouldn't drive the BRZ in the snow just because it's you know....a sports car and you don't want to do that to the poor thing.
YuriLowell
Member
So what would people recommend for a truck?
Ive been looking and the only thing ive come to a conclusion on is that stupid Tacomas hold their value like no other.
Ive been looking and the only thing ive come to a conclusion on is that stupid Tacomas hold their value like no other.
jongkookie
Member
Yeah ground clearance is why I rarely drive my Miata in the snow, well that and I run summer tires year round lol.
Reasons like this is why a Toyobaru and a Miata are great starter RWD cars. They're not going to kill you and in most cases, they actually teach you how to drive properly. That said, you can jump into a higher powered car from the get go and learn how to drive RWD in inclement weather but starting off with a low powered car will definitely help you better in the long run.
FWD is alright in inclement weather too, but the weight balance is definitely the issue with it. A 2.5L Mazda3 for example, the rear can actually slip pretty easily since its front heavy. It's controllable due to FWD but it'll slip if you're not too careful.
Reasons like this is why a Toyobaru and a Miata are great starter RWD cars. They're not going to kill you and in most cases, they actually teach you how to drive properly. That said, you can jump into a higher powered car from the get go and learn how to drive RWD in inclement weather but starting off with a low powered car will definitely help you better in the long run.
FWD is alright in inclement weather too, but the weight balance is definitely the issue with it. A 2.5L Mazda3 for example, the rear can actually slip pretty easily since its front heavy. It's controllable due to FWD but it'll slip if you're not too careful.
Looking to get a new car and hoping for some good suggestions or advice here. I currently drive a 2-door manual transmission Volkswagen Golf (2011). I'm still a few months away from actually buying anything new but I want to upgrade to something with 4 doors and is a little faster/nicer. Here's what I'm currently considering (loosely ranked from my 1st choice to my last):
1. Volkswagen GTI - I love the styling of these. I know they are pretty similar to the Golf which I currently have. I really love the nice interiors of Volkswagens. I would be a little concerned about maintenance issues.
2. Honda Civic SI - Probably my cheapest option and I like the general reliability of Hondas
3. Subaru WRX - Most attractive thing about this car for me is the all-wheel drive (which none of my other choices have).
4. Ford Focus ST
5. Mazda Speed 3
Any input about any of these five cars would be nice. Are there any other similar cars from other manufacturers that I should consider? Please keep in mind that I haven't actually test driven any of these and that I'm still a few months away from an actual purchase.
1. Volkswagen GTI - I love the styling of these. I know they are pretty similar to the Golf which I currently have. I really love the nice interiors of Volkswagens. I would be a little concerned about maintenance issues.
2. Honda Civic SI - Probably my cheapest option and I like the general reliability of Hondas
3. Subaru WRX - Most attractive thing about this car for me is the all-wheel drive (which none of my other choices have).
4. Ford Focus ST
5. Mazda Speed 3
Any input about any of these five cars would be nice. Are there any other similar cars from other manufacturers that I should consider? Please keep in mind that I haven't actually test driven any of these and that I'm still a few months away from an actual purchase.
New: Colorado is supposed to be pretty good
Used: Probably a Frontier
New 2015 Shelby Super Snake looks rather nice:
750+ HP with either optional superchargers (Whipple and Keene Bell) and the associated upgrades with that package. No mention of what HP with the standard Ford Performance supercharger is which is a shame as it'd be interesting to compare the details.
I see. I actually don't know how I'll feel if I drive MT in the city or places with a lot of traffic lights or stop signs. Plus I need to learn how to drive manual still lol.
That's good to know your experience with snow tires. Hopefully I won't have to worry too much about roads not being cleared because the last few winters in NYC, they seem to have done a good job of clearing the roads in my neighborhood.
Good point. How much do the 'good' ones cost? $150-300 a wheel?
Since I'm not experienced in driving RWD, and in snow for that matter, would it be a good idea to go to an empty parking lot and practice driving in the snow there? I saw that recommendation on reddit so you learn how your car reacts and all that.
And yeah, as much as I don't want to do that to a BRZ, it'll be my DD car if I buy one and if I work outside of NYC.
Ah, I can see that.
It seems to be brought up when I think about getting a BRZ: with the WRX priced relatively close, which should I get? BRZ or WRX? I was watching EverydayDriver's video comparing the two and (IIRC) they both chose the WRX, but it was very close.
nabe_shogun
Member
My 240sx was amazing in the snow. I had snow tires though, but still, never had any trouble.
jongkookie
Member
Yeah, for example, the first time I really drove my Miata real hard, like balls to wall and all that, the limited-slip diff actually kicked in and when that happened I really didn't know what the hell that was and thought my car was about to slide so I countersteered and almost had a case of brown pants. But again, this was when I was new to what an LSD actually does and what it feels like to drive aggressively.
But these days, I now know when my Miata is understeering and when it's about to oversteer(and that it isn't the LSD fooling me lol), plus it's confidence inspiring. It's these three things that I think are really crucial to driving RWD and why I suggest a Toyobaru or Miata to learn these skills. Hell just today, I was driving around like a jackass when tropical storm Bill hit us here in DFW. Everyone was being slow as fnck, even the dudes overcompensating with their big trucks was driving under the speed limit. And my dumbass self was driving 15 above the speed limit, not because I'm a total idiot, but because I know the limits of my car, plus I was about to be late for work lol.
But like I said, you can jump into a 370Z, 911, or whatever high-powered RWD car to learn these skills... the only difference is that if you screw up with a Miata the only thing that'll come out of it is a bruised ego. With a high-powered car, not only will your ego be bruised, but the chances of you sending the car to a wall or ditch is higher... and you're gonna lose money as well.
Also the BRZ vs WRX thing... the WRX is vanilla ice cream. It appeals to everyone due to it's handling capabilities and speed. The BRZ on the other hand is a complex flavor like green tea ice cream or cookies and cream. Not everybody likes it since they think it's underpowered, but those who like it understand it's fantastic handling capabilities and the amount of fun you can have with it.
Speaking of Mustangs... next to me today on the highway when that storm hit was a Boss 302. Motherfncker downshifted and smoked my ass while it was just me and him on the road. He slowed down and I caught up with him, gave him a thumbs up for being ballsy as fnck and went on our own ways lol.
m_shortpants
Member
I have a 14 Si so if you have any questions about it let me know. Out of all those cars it's definitely the cheapest option that will require the least maintenance. For 20k it's not bad for a daily driver with a bit more punch than the other compact cars around. Great transmission, proven engine, good tech. Only thing is that the new gen Civics should be coming out this fall. The next Si is probably a good 8-11 months away though.
I drive a 2014 base Explorer at work. It's pretty damn cheap inside. I don't think the sport version even has a soft touch upper dash..... Even my Fusion SE has that. Not sure why most people would choose an Explorer over a Grand Cherokee.
Also it appears that the Edge has the exact same interior design and quality as the Fusion but costs 7k more because it is a crossover.
If I was to get a new car, my list would be almost the same as yours. Personally, I really like the exterior and interior design of the '15 STs, but I would wait until they get upgraded to Sync 3 which also supports Android Car.
But since I would want a car the wife can drive as well, I would probably end up with the GTI. I know the WRX has a CVT version, but it loses a bunch of speed versus the manual and the current styling of the WRX does nothing for me. The DSG on the GTI is pretty sweet and the GTI feels like a upscale vehicle with the nice interior. But boy, the price escalates pretty quickly when you add on the DSG, the performance pack, lighting pack, etc.
I literally just picked up my new WRX today, which l traded in a 2013 GT86 for.
My 86:
The WRX:
The 86 was an absolute joy to drive, but it did feel very cheap, especially in the interior. This is one area the WRX is a clear winner in my opinion. Seats were comfortable in the 86, even on long drives. One thing l found is that it's essentially a 2 seater. The rear seats just don't have much room if you have relatively tall people in the front.
I did find the 86 lacked power every now and then, but for the majority of the time it was fine. You'll find you have to drive it pretty hard to get it to do anything, but it's fun while doing it. Handles very similar to a RX8 (I owned a series 1).
My advice, take both for a drive and see what you think. The WRX is better value for money though.
whatsinaname
Member
Budget about $50 (rim) + $150 (tire) for one wheel. If you live in NYC, would you have a problem storing the off-season wheels? Something to think about as well.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
This isn't really on point. If you're in a situation where you need traction on snow, no car will be able to produce significant weight shift to unload the fronts. Both equipped with snow tires, there's no comparison between FWD and RWD in the snow. RWD w/ snow vs. FWD w/ all-seasons you have a point, but otherwise no.
You can also change the direction of force from the wheels with a FWD to control a slide, doesn't work in RWD. Ever drive a RWD on a steeply crowned road in the snow, then lose grip? The rear end drifts into the ditch and there's really not much you can do until you recover grip. In a FWD you can pull the car back on track.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Thanks!
It's crazy how well these cars hold their value. I wasn't sold on the colour originally, but the KM's and full upgrade package pushed me over the edge to buy it.
Well... I picked up a new daily...
If it's just like this for the North American market, sign my ass up!!!
Oooooh congrats! I will be looking very hard at the WRX when my next upgrade comes due in a few years. The new ones were just a bit out of my budget this time around and the used ones weren't much cheaper either.
DivineRage002
Member
I drive a Genesis 3.8 in canadian winter. Get winter tires, they wear out quick if you drive in warm temperatures, anything below 5c and they will get normal wear. Besides, driving in snow on summer tires in a RWD is borderline suicidal, get good winter tires. I use Yokohama Iceguards.
Have fun doing crazy drifts without any wear on your tires.
TheAbsolution
Member
So AutoGuide did a review of the Huracan.
It's pretty funny, honestly. https://youtu.be/-2vuOMVbZ6k
It's pretty funny, honestly. https://youtu.be/-2vuOMVbZ6k
Liquidsnake
Banned
As an FR-S owner I can not fault anyone for going WRX. I totally understand.
The interiors of the BRZ and FR-S are getting better. My 1.0 is miles better than my 2013 was.
I think EVO's and WRX's are sexy as hell.
The interiors of the BRZ and FR-S are getting better. My 1.0 is miles better than my 2013 was.
I think EVO's and WRX's are sexy as hell.
The ones I got (Dunlop WinterSport 3D) were $124/ea a few years ago when I got them.
The above estimate of $50 + $150 is probably a good one - you don't want to be pulling the tires off the rims twice a year, so a cheap set of steel wheels for the winters is a solid way to go.
m_shortpants
Member
My brother somehow convinced Subaru to buy back his BRZ at full price...he's getting a WRX instead lol. Basically drove it free for a year.
RukusProvider
Banned
Don't do this at a trackday ok? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9X2-sE4EcU
The new cars with all their electronic aids are allow for this crap.
The new cars with all their electronic aids are allow for this crap.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
It's not bad at all... I'm currently doing this right now. It's mostly muscle memory, and it becomes second nature. It also helps that the clutch is rather light on my current car.
I was test driving both before making my final decision. You've got nice tastes in cars my friend ^_^
WOW... And how was the driving instructor so silent during the bit I watch!? (I gave up after the second lap).
Damn...Seriously that's amazing!