Sounds like the V8 is the difference maker. Understandable.
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Automotive Discussion Thread | OT2 | Zero to pointless fighting faster than a GT86
- Thread starter AlphaSnake
- Start date
mmazurkiewicz
Member
there have been about half a dozen of these comparisons the past month and thats the first one where the M3 is last. every other comparo it has been first.
not surprised considering jonny liberman did it.
also, C63S bases at $10k more than the others so make of that what you will.
i'd take any of them tbh but i cant liberman seriously.
edit:
whatcar
CAR magazine
Motorweek
Car and Driver
Cars.com
Evo
Chris Harris
not surprised considering jonny liberman did it.
also, C63S bases at $10k more than the others so make of that what you will.
i'd take any of them tbh but i cant liberman seriously.
edit:
whatcar
CAR magazine
Motorweek
Car and Driver
Cars.com
Evo
Chris Harris
That's a different target demographic to those who would purchase either Hellcat or non ACR/TA Viper.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I just figured out a front-end problem on the 911 that's stumped me and four mechanics over a year and a half. I feel so fucking good right now.
Ball joints? No. Wheel bearings? No. Torsion bar splines? No. Strut retaining pin? So close, but no.
Stupid god damn plastic guide bushings in the strut housing for the strut insert. They've finally deteriorated and are allowing the inserts to have an ever so slight bit of slop, clicking and clacking and providing surprise toe/camber adjustments.
I could fuck the world right now I'm so happy. Fuck you, world! I'm the boss!
Edit: Suddenly this little fuck-up by me at 1:35 makes a lot more sense (end of last year). I guess they could only take so much tripoding before giving up the ghost. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3On8o0aF28&feature=youtu.be&t=88
Ball joints? No. Wheel bearings? No. Torsion bar splines? No. Strut retaining pin? So close, but no.
Stupid god damn plastic guide bushings in the strut housing for the strut insert. They've finally deteriorated and are allowing the inserts to have an ever so slight bit of slop, clicking and clacking and providing surprise toe/camber adjustments.
I could fuck the world right now I'm so happy. Fuck you, world! I'm the boss!
Edit: Suddenly this little fuck-up by me at 1:35 makes a lot more sense (end of last year). I guess they could only take so much tripoding before giving up the ghost. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3On8o0aF28&feature=youtu.be&t=88
You're right. I figured it was more a commercial for their creme de la creme. Plus, the ACR would have looked pretty out of place and a bit tacky for that commercial. It's a very ugly ass ride for most people out there.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Can you link to those direct comparisons? I'd like to see some of them.
One of the major problems with the US-spec M-cars is that our M-Dynamic Mode settings are seriously gimped and engage traction non stop. This forces a lot of the press drivers to shut all of the nannies off instead and the car becomes an uncontrollable maniac.
The European spec M3/M4 on the other hand, has a totally different MDM, that is faaaar more aggressive in throttle and handling limits, allowing the car to actually get sideways quite a bit before kicking in the safety. A lot of the F80 guys have been digging into the ECU of their cars and coding in the Euro-spec M Dynamic Mode, in addition to a host of other features BMW curiously left disabled. Literally a 15 minute fix.
This would explain why the European pubs can still prefer the M over the AMG. But I would love to see why exactly.
I just installed 6 coil packs on my car that I bought on eBay for $35. For about half the price of one new coil pack I got six used ones. I almost didn't put them in because they looked in bad shape compared to the ones I was replacing. They were so cheap and I didn't really want go through shipping it back so I just put them in.
After finishing I took my car for a drive and it feels much happier now when I step hard on the gas. This should hold me over until I decide to replace those pesky coils packs and icm's with a new coil pack conversion kit.
After finishing I took my car for a drive and it feels much happier now when I step hard on the gas. This should hold me over until I decide to replace those pesky coils packs and icm's with a new coil pack conversion kit.
Don't really need a SUV. If I go through with this I consider this a definite stop gap and nothing more.
I'm close to owning the BMW outright. That's what always pulls me back.
These guys around here with [HOONIGAN] stickers slapped on the back of their cars crack me up. They drive like maniacs and think they are the Ken Block of the streets. I'm just bringing this up because of that new Need for Speed trailer.
No offense to anyone here with a HOONIGAN sticker on the back of their car. Unless you race actually race on open public roads.
No offense to anyone here with a HOONIGAN sticker on the back of their car. Unless you race actually race on open public roads.
That's a great feeling isn't it? It's like a silent, invisible weight has been lifted and you can suddenly breathe easier and the world looks a little bit brighter.
I know the feeling but if you are that close to owning it outright it probably makes more economic sense to just keep it. Any idea why your service engine light is on? Is it just time for a periodic check or is something wrong? Even if you have to pay a grand in maintenance a year that's still going to be cheaper than a car payment on even a cheap car.
The only other thing that might make sense is to take whatever money you could get out of the BMW and buy something really cheap outright so that you have no payment on a low maintenance vehicle (like an older Corolla or a Civic).
But as we have discussed before that's a pretty big step from a luxury performance vehicle like the 335i to an econobox. Is your motivation just to have something different? Or do you really want to save gas and money badly enough that you are willing to take that step?
jongkookie
Member
What's even more hilarious is that most of these guys don't even realize Block's Fiesta is AWD. And most of these stickers show up on shitty ass Civics, 240SXs, Miatas or any other crap can on Megan coilovers that are basically the equivalent of a 2x4 with a slinky around it.
Yeah, you definitely gotta consider this.
For example, I was looking through my expenses the other day and so far I've spent a grand on getting my Miata fixed after the starter harness and starter went kaput. Then next week I'll be swapping my spark plugs and that's gonna be $50... then brake pads in September and I'm thinking it's gonna be around $300-400 depending on where I take it. And finally, tires... depending on how my work situation turns out I'm probably gonna need to buy a set of all-seasons come winter... and that's gonna be $800-ish provided I don't buy new rims. And I'm even leaving oil changes out of this lol.
All told I'm looking at around $2500 when all is said and done... and that's about half of what's left of loan on the Miata. Doing all this doesn't really add up much value when I sell it next year and that's actually got me thinking on whether I should really sell it or not but that's another post for another time. Gotta get some seat time on the new Miata first before I decide on things lol.
But yeah, if you can kinda diagnose the issue and get an estimate on how much it'll need to get it fixed you should be able to run numbers or whatever to give you an idea of where you need to go with this.
Im going to be filling up once a week with this new commute that starts on monday. 60 mile roundtrip. Thats about $200 a month in premium gas now. 5 months of this so thats about $1,000 extra in fuel. Plus it really needs to go through a maintenance session. I posted here about 3 months ago on what needed to be taken care of. I should probably do that but its been hectic af for me the past few months.
93k miles on it now. By Dec ill be at 100k.
You're thinking you'd rather have something that you don't have to think about *at all* with a baby on the way and a long ass commute? I get that.
330 is a pretty comfy car though. Probably reduces your stress level driving that as opposed to something cheaper/louder/less comfy.
330 is a pretty comfy car though. Probably reduces your stress level driving that as opposed to something cheaper/louder/less comfy.
rokkerkory
Member
Just gonna leave this here:
Motor Trend just released a 22 minute Head 2 Head episode of a 2016 Miata Club vs BRZ.
Which one would you rather have?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLtw2z_mZ6w
Which one would you rather have?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLtw2z_mZ6w
theSlacker
Member
Without even watching the video I'd go with BRZ. I just don't like convertibles. Now to watch the video.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Miata, the answer is always Miata.
whatsinaname
Member
BRZ in the North. Miata in the South.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Oh man, you're going to love the added bump in power (and sound). Right now I'm on a Accessport tune, but I'm getting a pro tune next spring once I sort of the rest of the mods I want to complete.
My car is a 2012 so it's good for 08-14, though I already sold it to someone going back to stock. Sorry my man...
#DEAD
I've been debating this choice for a little while now
No overdrive and short gearing, wonder what the top speed is and how high RPM it runs at 85-90 mph which is a speed I must do daily... If it's too high Im not buying it and I will wait for the Civic Type R. I have an FRS and I was considering switching come the better version with the Recaro seats...
I read the article in the magazine a few weeks back. Personally I'd go with the BRZ, in large part because I like having a roof over my head at all times. The new Miata looks great, but I've never been a fan of convertibles. Heck, I don't even like sunroofs. Or T-tops.
So a while back I was supposed to go to a track day but we had some unforseen circumstances arise and I was forced to miss it...
I'm now scheduled to take my car to the track for next sunday for a track day.
For those of you that have tracked their cars...any advise? What should I know in advance, what should I look out for? Anything to prepare me would be greatly appreciated.
I'm now scheduled to take my car to the track for next sunday for a track day.
For those of you that have tracked their cars...any advise? What should I know in advance, what should I look out for? Anything to prepare me would be greatly appreciated.
No overdrive and short gearing, wonder what the top speed is and how high RPM it runs at 85-90 mph which is a speed I must do daily... If it's too high Im not buying it and I will wait for the Civic Type R. I have an FRS and I was considering switching come the better version with the Recaro seats...
Same, holding out for a PRHT version with those Recaro seats before making a bad financial decision.
jongkookie
Member
Putting my bias aside... well, the numbers aren't lying. It's definitely much faster than the Toyobaru. I think that should be more than enough for an answer lol.
But speaking as a Miata fanboy... man, I've been having second thoughts about trading my NC in but this video just kinda demolished that idea.
I like the fact that it's much faster than my NC, though technically speaking, I'm pretty sure my modified NC is neck and neck if not faster than the ND.
I like the fact that it has modern amenities, and I'm not talking about bluetooth or whatever... I'm talking about traction control and proper nannies that I can use as a daily driver. My NC has no traction control and I fncking love that actually, but it's also not necessarily a good thing as I need to be really engaged when I'm driving it. Hell, just 30 minutes ago I was turning a 90deg right at a decent speed and I actually had to countersteer so I won't end up in a ditch lol. It definitely woke me up after a long day at work haha.
The convertible thing isn't really an issue. I've made trips to Costco buying a shitton of things and making it fit, I've fit a dismantled drum set and got it to fit... as long as you know how to manage space it's not issue at all. The top too is not an issue. My canvas top is 10 years old already and I don't see the need to change it. No rips, leaks or anything whatsoever... just some "cosmetic issues" with the glue that Mazda used and it makes an area look bubbly lol. That said, I'd prefer the retractable hard top over the soft top... just more security and peace of mind.
Honestly, if you've already got a NC Miata or Toyobaru, you're better off keeping it for the moment as you can mod them to make it equal and a looooooot faster than a stock ND can ever be. But if you've got a stock NA/NB Miata, or any other car and you don't mind not having a backseat... the ND is pretty much the king of the hill if you will. The only thing that can top it are modded cars or anything past it's $30k price range... but of course if you're already capable of going above that price then I don't see why you're shopping for an ND unless you're really interested in it lol.
Me personally, I'm gonna need to test drive a Club trim(same trim as Lago tested with the LSD, Brembos and BBS wheels) before I can fully decide where I want to go. It's a lot better in every single way compared to my NC, but it has to exceed my expectations... otherwise, I'll stick with my NC and just modify it lol.
It's true though lol. I honestly don't think I've ever been in a car with decent Megan coils. Everything's stiff, bottoming out or scraping like a cheese grater. It's fncking terrible and these damn kids don't realize the world of hurt they're about to be in riding low on those 2x4's. Seriously, $600 for a full set of coilvers should be more than enough of an hint that they're pieces of shit when every other coils out there start at $900.
Problem is your NC will never be as light as the ND even if it makes more power, it will require more tire and stiffer suspension to overcome the weight differential. Like the old man said, it made the BRZ feel like a pig regardless of the fact the Subaru is pretty lightweight in today's terms.
I like that unlike the NC gens and refreshes, it actually has an interior that is contemporary and no cheap materials all over like the CD player from 1998 and cheap dash and door trims. Yeah yeah fun this and that doesnt need luxury... keeping in mind the NC was an almost 30 grand car well equipped, so it was an insult. The only good materials were on the GT leather seats.
The FRS has that stupid torque dip which only takes a header/overpipe and a tune to rid of and gain a bunch of horses BUT the fact this miata is so small and so light... my college car was an NA miata and this thing is just like the old gal except faster. I bought an FRS because it was a better value than the NC, with the new ND equipment they are finally on par.
Man. Dealer just tried to absolutely hose my wife, had her drop off the car for an oil change - they presented the most ridiculous 30k mile service plan I have ever seen or heard of.
filters and oil - OK
super radiator flush - car has FL22 coolant good for 100k+ miles...
transmission flush - aisin F21 6 speed tranny, according to the manual NEVER needs changing
various inspections, fuel additives and snake oils.
price? $700 freaking US dollars! Mind you, this is not a fancy european car... its a fucking Mazda!
It got me thinking though, NEVER seems like a long time, I plan to keep this car for awhile. "Lifetime" from the manufacturer seems to imply "warranty period" to me. I think 60k for transmission fluid seems adequate but I don't have much experience with auto cars.
filters and oil - OK
super radiator flush - car has FL22 coolant good for 100k+ miles...
transmission flush - aisin F21 6 speed tranny, according to the manual NEVER needs changing
various inspections, fuel additives and snake oils.
price? $700 freaking US dollars! Mind you, this is not a fancy european car... its a fucking Mazda!
It got me thinking though, NEVER seems like a long time, I plan to keep this car for awhile. "Lifetime" from the manufacturer seems to imply "warranty period" to me. I think 60k for transmission fluid seems adequate but I don't have much experience with auto cars.
jongkookie
Member
Weight wise, it's about a 150lbs difference. C&D lists the 2006 as 2482lbs while the 2016 at 2309lbs. But I say 150lbs because the stock muffler on the 2006 is 27 pounds, whereas my muffler weighs 7lbs, so it should be around 175lbs if both are fully stock. So 150lbs difference... it's a big number but actually a basic tune on a stock setup can already overcome that. I'm actually meeting a tuner from Florida, who's doing a cross country trip selling tunes, and his tunes are able to get you around 10+hp and 15ft-lb on a stock setup. I can't wait to see what it can do to my CAI and muffler mods.
I agree with the interior actually... and it's one of the reasons why I want the ND. That said I don't have much experience with the lower trims of the NC. Mine is the launch limited edition release, which is basically a GT with their special red paint at the time and a decal saying it's number on the production line lol. But at the same time the NC lasted 10 years and at the start it was actually high-tech... it wasn't until 2011 when everyone else kept up or got past it.
As for the Toyobaru vs Miata... it's tough to put it into words tbh. I like what the Toyobaru has to offer but it's just not never really caught my attention. Like even if somebody offered me to trade my NC and forego all my remaining payments with it, I'd actually stop to think long and hard before I'd finally say no and keep my NC instead lol. Maybe it's coz I've already gotten so attached to it over the last 3 years and if I'm gonna switch it has to be an upgrade so idk really.
All I really know for sure is that my NC has been and is still is a joy to drive everyday.
LucidMomentum
Member
Funny, that's how I feel when I get into my FR-S each day. From the moment I saw the concept car I knew I wanted one and when I finally got to buy one I was overjoyed. A year later I still haven't gotten tired of it and although I know its flaws I've come to enjoy the car on the whole because it feels like a good fit for me. I can just slip into the seat and drive.
With that being said, in a couple months I may be getting rid of the torque dip in the best possible way, so I may fall in love all over again
djSyndrome
Member
This was me. I drover everything else in the segment and spent weeks trying to convince myself that I liked the WRX better. Still bought the FR-S in the end.
Is it perfect? Hell no. Does it put a smile on my face every single day? Absolutely.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Regarding why the new Miata has that much body roll for a Miata, it's likely to keep the levels of grip high and prevent the car from bouncing around in the middle of a turn. On a light car, some body roll can help prevent odd lateral traction issues when more weight is being transferred onto the working tires.
Basically:
Softer suspension = more limit grip.
Firmer suspension = less limit grip.
It's really dumbing it down to a very barebones statement, but it rings true.
Basically:
Softer suspension = more limit grip.
Firmer suspension = less limit grip.
It's really dumbing it down to a very barebones statement, but it rings true.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
I totally agreed with everything you had said. I don't cheap out on anything on my car. If I can't afford it, then I'll wait till I can.
I've tried to help out some of the younger guys over on Zilvia, but it usually ends up with "bro, I'm just going to get these coilovers, as I just want to slam my car" and I leave it at that.
Both cars are so good. I would't kick either one of my driveway. I prefer the hardtop in most situations but if it were my money and I had to spend it on one of the two the weight savings and the "fun" nature of the Miata would probably get my nod.
Also, I really like watching and listening to Randy Pobst. He's one of my favorite car driver/commentators and you can tell he loves both of these cars from the very high praise he has for them. His segment of this Head 2 Head made it a good watch whereas Carlos Lago looked like he was maybe going through the motions since he knew it was his last ep. with MT. Just my 2 cents.
YuriLowell
Member
Id take the miata.
Yep. A real sportscar. The FR-S/BRZ was a great idea but with a botched execution. Plus, they're like Civics where I live, just cheap semi-sporty cars for 20-30 year olds.
And honestly, the styling on the ND Miata >>>>>>>>>>>>> FR-S/BRZ. FR-S and BRZ look cheap and tacky. The stock rims and taillights are absolutely hideous.
m_shortpants
Member
I'd probably take the Miata in hardtop if that was available.
notoriousKTR
Member
If I recall correctly,"lifetime" is defined by the longevity of a particular component. Therefore, lifetime transmission fluid is to say the fluid will last as long as the transmission itself. 60k is typically the time to flush.
jongkookie
Member
I actually kinda wonder if I'd have the same thought if I got a Toyobaru before the Miata and to see how it would influence my life.
Coz before my Miata, all I wanted in my life was an AE86 or an RX-7. I've seen the Miata get owned by Takumi and everyone thought it was "gay" so I never even considered it. Hell, before the test drive I was still hesitant about it, 170hp isn't enough I thought... and for $11k, I could've bought a Mustang or some other faster car. But I read reviews and said it was a great car with great aftermarket support and a great community so I just went to go look at it in the middle of winter. And then boom... it was love at first sight tbh lol.
Yep. The cheapest performance thing I've got on my car are the set of Eibach springs and that's only because I bought them off used from a M.net forum member.
I myself have tried reasoning with friends on car parts but I've given up a few years ago since they're in it for the trend. Everyone is telling me to display my car at those ricer car meets but I'm always refusing. My Miata deserves to be driven like a madman, not being pampered and sat on by a model with a dirty ass.
I'm not sure how botched they are/were. That's a little bit harsh. If a professional like Randy Pobst likes and praises them then they must be doing a lot right. I agree the stock tire choice is all kinds of wrong and the rims aren't my preference either but that's not a hard fix.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Yeah, roll-stiffness will have negative impacts on ultimate grip levels, and with a light car a bit of roll doesn't hurt anything because the weight transfer happens fast and settles quickly. That said, that Miata had a hell of a lot of roll for a club-spec edition car. I get they're keeping it fun so they're not going to amp up the roll bars, but somewhat stiffer springs look like they wouldn't hurt it and those alone would go lengths to quell roll.
Also, I hate comparisons of street cars on the track using their stock tires (unless they're very high end with tires made special for them by Michelin, Pirelli, etc.) because the tire comp can so significantly change the lap times. Of course the Miata with its club-spec tires was going to walk away from the BRZ with its Prius specials.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Welp! I finally did it! I booked my trip to Japan, and a lot of it will be car related. I'm going to the 2016 Tokyo Auto Salon! I can't wait to be able to speak to some of the venders that I've been purchasing and installing parts on my various cars for years.
I'll also try see drivers and editors from the various Japanese videos that I've been watching for ages.
I am also planning to visit a few "popular" shops and chop it up with some of the owners. Big on my list is Mines, Tomei, Spoon, and a few of the smaller drift shops like MCR Factory. I also want to visit some headquarters like Nissan and Subaru. I think my friend has an in for me to visit the Nismo shop and their heritage collection garage (most pumped about this!)
I told myself I'll try my best and stay away from the Japanese car auctions, so we will see how strong my will is. Either way I'm going to finally decide what I'm going to do for my next project car.
GOD I'M TOTALLY EXCITED!
I'll also try see drivers and editors from the various Japanese videos that I've been watching for ages.
I am also planning to visit a few "popular" shops and chop it up with some of the owners. Big on my list is Mines, Tomei, Spoon, and a few of the smaller drift shops like MCR Factory. I also want to visit some headquarters like Nissan and Subaru. I think my friend has an in for me to visit the Nismo shop and their heritage collection garage (most pumped about this!)
I told myself I'll try my best and stay away from the Japanese car auctions, so we will see how strong my will is. Either way I'm going to finally decide what I'm going to do for my next project car.
GOD I'M TOTALLY EXCITED!
djSyndrome
Member
It's cool to hate on the 86, haven't you heard?
Yesterday my 90-day survey came in from Scion. I took advantage of it to give them a little feedback (which will be roundly ignored)
I still love the car and have no intention of getting rid of it, even though the missus is already asking me when I'm going to dump it for an STI.
theSlacker
Member
I'm still really surprised that there isn't a simple solution to that that is just a single unit that fits right into the same slot the cup holder does. That you can just toss in the back seat when you aren't using it.