AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I just don't like that the price tag is now over $100K base...
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Automotive Discussion Thread | OT2 | Zero to pointless fighting faster than a GT86
- Thread starter AlphaSnake
- Start date
I just don't like that the price tag is now over $100K base...
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Noticed on the way home from a long drive that my A/C knob felt a little warm...maybe a lot warm...maybe I'll turn it off for a while.
Of course it was 100 degrees and about 80% humidity at the time, so that was wonderful, but all said and done it was the right decision, because when I pulled the switch out to check the contacts I saw this...
Everything was scorched, melted and brittle, and you can see the buildup on the one contact. It was bad, and had I kept it on it could have caught fire for sure (I actually heard the arcing!). Bonus: There's almost zero slack in the line so I can't just put a new contact in; I'll have to splice a wire in, and I'll have to do it right. Time to get out the soldering iron!
Just a fun reminder to check the contacts in your old cars!
Edit: I may just do a solder/crimp joint because a) soldering sucks and b) I don't think I want a soldering gun inside my center console.
VVV Yeah me too, a car fire would ruin my day.
Of course it was 100 degrees and about 80% humidity at the time, so that was wonderful, but all said and done it was the right decision, because when I pulled the switch out to check the contacts I saw this...
Everything was scorched, melted and brittle, and you can see the buildup on the one contact. It was bad, and had I kept it on it could have caught fire for sure (I actually heard the arcing!). Bonus: There's almost zero slack in the line so I can't just put a new contact in; I'll have to splice a wire in, and I'll have to do it right. Time to get out the soldering iron!
Just a fun reminder to check the contacts in your old cars!
Edit: I may just do a solder/crimp joint because a) soldering sucks and b) I don't think I want a soldering gun inside my center console.
VVV Yeah me too, a car fire would ruin my day.
Fallout-NL
Member
Man, I'm glad you caught that in time.
djSyndrome
Member
There's your extra 5hp, 86 folks. At least there's a new fuel pump that may finally kill the cricket swarm.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
There's your extra 5hp, 86 folks. At least there's a new fuel pump that may finally kill the cricket swarm.
The torque improvements between 2K-3.6K look pretty good too.
Damn your right. Back when my dad was cross shopping the CLS550 with the Panamera 4 in 2012, he faced the decision of a slightly optioned Panamera 4 at 100k vs the loaded CLS at 85k. Was a no brainer for the CLS since it had 400hp/450TQ vs the regular Panamera at 310hq/300tq. Plus the old one was pretty fugly next to the Benz lol
But damn, I wonder if they will do a regular 4 instead of starting at that 4S configuration
GHG
Member
There is room in the lineup for a lower powered v6 twin turbo (Macan S engine) or even one of the turbo 4 pots from the 2017 Cayman/Boxter lineup.
The Turbo S is also yet to be revealed which is expected to be north of 600 hp. My advice would be to just wait a year or two and find a used fully loaded Turbo.
It's because there is no more base model. The lowest tier 2017 Panamera available in the States is the 440HP 4S. It also has a totally redesigned interior with more tech as standard compared to previous gen.
US is also getting the Euro long wheelbase version as standard. Car is meant to compete with the M6 Gran Coupe, RS7 and CLS63. Think it's priced fairly when you take all that into account.
Porsche has been raising prices across the range for all their cars. They want the brand to appear more premium.
Yeah this is the exact problem I face when looking at the Panamera. Hell, I even like the look of the old Panamera, but you can get so much more car for your money at the entry level. Like I get that the Porsche brand commands a premium and I'm willing to believe it's worth it, but it's a bit harder for me to swallow the porsche tax when I'm looking at a sedan. $90k for a sparsely optioned 300hp sedan? I'm sure it's a blast to drive, but I dunno man.
It does sound like a 350hp v6 will come along that will presumably bring the entry point back down to around 80 (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2017-porsche-panamera-photos-and-info-news), but I don't know that that solves my dilemma.
FWIW, it's speculated that this new Panamera will have a dramatic impact on the value of the previous gen, similar to what the 997 did to the 996.
Perhaps the older 4S will be able to be had for a bargain.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
At $110K (and let's not kid ourselves, we all know how Porsche's option out and how they come standard) with only 440HP this is not competing with any of the above cars.
Porsche is charging a massive premium on these cars mostly because they just feel like it. Same as the Macan and Cayenne, cars that offer no discernible advantage over their counterparts, yet cost a shitton more. And also because they will likely introduce a smaller sedan to compete against the Ghibli. Porsche also has the highest mark-up and profit of any manufacturer in the world, at an average of $17K per car. BMW is second at something like $7K per car? And everything else falls at $6K and under.
Regardless, it's a beautiful car...I just think it's not really worth the premium.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I just looked back at how the 1st gen Panamera was introduced. The S model was the first released at $90K, and then the terrible and anemic V6 was introduced 3 months later at $74K - which was highway robbery.
Basically, Porsche needs to release a 400HP model for about $80-85K.
Basically, Porsche needs to release a 400HP model for about $80-85K.
I dig it. I dig it A LOT! One of my dream cars at this point, really.
Noticed on the way home from a long drive that my A/C knob felt a little warm...maybe a lot warm...maybe I'll turn it off for a while.
Of course it was 100 degrees and about 80% humidity at the time, so that was wonderful, but all said and done it was the right decision, because when I pulled the switch out to check the contacts I saw this...
Everything was scorched, melted and brittle, and you can see the buildup on the one contact. It was bad, and had I kept it on it could have caught fire for sure (I actually heard the arcing!). Bonus: There's almost zero slack in the line so I can't just put a new contact in; I'll have to splice a wire in, and I'll have to do it right. Time to get out the soldering iron!
Just a fun reminder to check the contacts in your old cars!
Edit: I may just do a solder/crimp joint because a) soldering sucks and b) I don't think I want a soldering gun inside my center console.
VVV Yeah me too, a car fire would ruin my day.
Glad you caught that in time! G/L with the fix.
Porsche has never been about offering the most horsepower per dollar.
The way the new Panamera is priced , it really does not have much competition. The 4S is cheaper than all 3 of those other cars I posted, and while it may not be the fastest in a straight line, it will still do 0-60 in 4.2 seconds while offering the nicest interior, newest tech, and best handling of the bunch.
The Turbo is priced higher than all 3, but will obliterate them all in any metric, period.
And even with higher profit margins, Porsches still sell, while I have been personally offered massive discounts on higher end BMWs, Audis, Jaguars, and Benzes.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
We don't live on a track, so it doesn't matter how incrementally better a 4-door family hauling sedan handles. Any of those cars will still be extremely fun on a canyon road, the people buying these cars can't tell the difference. Nor will they take these cars on canyon runs.
The point is, as great looking as the car is, there's nothing about it that says 'I'm worth $100K+' before options.
Cars aren't check boxes of features, especially once you get into this tier and above.
How can you even possibly say this when not only have you never driven it, but there's not even impressions to read about?
I have no dog in the fight, and have no idea if it's worth it or not. But I do know that you don't either.
rokkerkory
Member
Prob with mainline porsche's is that their value drops fast in 3-5 years then steady out.
Maybe you don't care about good handling and driver enjoyment in your daily driver, but I do. Don't presume to speak for an entire market segment.
You don't need a track to notice better driving dynamics. You feel them at every transition, curve, and on ramp. If that wasn't the case, we'd all be driving boats.
This. Wait for impressions or better yet, a test drive Alpha. I'm not speaking out of my ass. I've driven all the cars mentioned in my post, except for the new Panamera obviously, but I'm estimating how it's going to perform based on my experience with the entire current model range.
And this is different from every other luxury car how?
GHG
Member
Things like the engine response, exhaust note, steering feel and general driving dynamics do make a difference. Whether somebody will be able to tell the difference or not on the road and whether they feel the premium of one car is worth it over another is a different story. It's like when people previously asked me why I opted for the X6 over the X5 and for me the answer was simple. The X6 is a better drivers car. But I know I'm in the minority and that doesn't matter to some people (why pay more for less practicality? etc, etc) and the differences wouldn't be apparent to some people dependant on their driving styles.
I know that if I was shopping in that segment it's between the m6 or the panamera and I wouldn't bother looking at anything else. But that's just me.
I know that if I was shopping in that segment it's between the m6 or the panamera and I wouldn't bother looking at anything else. But that's just me.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Personally, I always enjoy the Porsche reviews where the reviewer asks Alpha's questions regarding value then gets in and says "Oh...I get it now." Matt Farah nailed it with a 911 review a while back, calling it a pure luxury item and therefore questions of value start to become less meaningfull, and that if it's what you wanted it was worth every penny (paraphrasing of course).
Also, with my murderous A/C, turns out the switch also had a loose internal contact, so I'm scrapping the whole thing. Surprise, though, it was a totally generic switch that cost $9 instead of the expected $$$Porsche$$$ for OEM!
Also, with my murderous A/C, turns out the switch also had a loose internal contact, so I'm scrapping the whole thing. Surprise, though, it was a totally generic switch that cost $9 instead of the expected $$$Porsche$$$ for OEM!
Matt Farah just posted his One Take on the 2017 911 4S. This one is a press car loaded to the gills with an MSRP of $142k. Timely video as near the end he actually addresses the whole "value" argument and speaks about what sets a Porsche apart from the competition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GyGJHSa0so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GyGJHSa0so
Nick Murray, the Kiwi that had all the problems with his first 911 and had Porsche buy it back from him is abandoning his M4 and diving in again. Going to be custom color, Moss Green ($7K option) and have lots of deviated stitching, a manual transmission and likely a 4S. Probably will be around 150k when done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUOifHjmfhg
Does anyone have much experience with the Mercedes GLK? My better half has recently become enamored with them and says she'd rather have one over the XC60. We are going to test drive one pretty soon and I've read up but always interested in hearing more opinions. Most likely would be getting the 350 4matic with lighting package. Really like the fuel economy of the diesel but there are tons of those 3.5 engines out there.
shinshoryuken
Member
Hi guys what's better Porsche or Jaguar? >=)
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Welp, my plans of ordering my Challenger have been temporarily dashed 
Exchanged a few more emails with the dealers, when someone else from the same dealer kind of takes over and starts chatting with me, and he asks me to come in and test drive what's already on the lot.
I tell him I'd love to - but does he have a manual Scat Pack w/ the features I asked for, and is he willing to let it go under the terms I outlined.
And that's when the typical "dealer bullshit" starts rearing its ugly head. He goes on about how he has "much better options" on the lot, that he can give an even greater discount on. I told him I understand he probably can, but I don't need many of the extras. I'll gladly take them, though, again, if he can meet my pricing.
That's when he says "well, you're asking for a very aggressive sale that we just can't do. We can probably get you under $600/month."
I politely tell him that I can get under $600 a month just about anywhere - that I started my dialogue sharing that other dealers could get under $550 (which is a lie, lowest quote was $560, admittedly).
He shoots back and again asks for my credit, and if I wanted to trade anything in. I reminded him I have above an 800 score and should easily be eligible for their best rates. I tell him I'm not interested in trading anything.
He completely ignores my reply and says I outta come in again, see what they have.
Nope.jpeg
So, I politely tell him that if he can meet my terms that his associate already said was do-able, I'll come in and sign today. Hell, I'll even put down the first payment or a refundable deposit if he wants. But unless he can commit to that, I'm not looking to make the trek to the dealer, yet.
The hunt continues!
Exchanged a few more emails with the dealers, when someone else from the same dealer kind of takes over and starts chatting with me, and he asks me to come in and test drive what's already on the lot.
I tell him I'd love to - but does he have a manual Scat Pack w/ the features I asked for, and is he willing to let it go under the terms I outlined.
And that's when the typical "dealer bullshit" starts rearing its ugly head. He goes on about how he has "much better options" on the lot, that he can give an even greater discount on. I told him I understand he probably can, but I don't need many of the extras. I'll gladly take them, though, again, if he can meet my pricing.
That's when he says "well, you're asking for a very aggressive sale that we just can't do. We can probably get you under $600/month."
I politely tell him that I can get under $600 a month just about anywhere - that I started my dialogue sharing that other dealers could get under $550 (which is a lie, lowest quote was $560, admittedly).
He shoots back and again asks for my credit, and if I wanted to trade anything in. I reminded him I have above an 800 score and should easily be eligible for their best rates. I tell him I'm not interested in trading anything.
He completely ignores my reply and says I outta come in again, see what they have.
Nope.jpeg
So, I politely tell him that if he can meet my terms that his associate already said was do-able, I'll come in and sign today. Hell, I'll even put down the first payment or a refundable deposit if he wants. But unless he can commit to that, I'm not looking to make the trek to the dealer, yet.
The hunt continues!
Trick question, but trick answer: McLaren.
Yeah, I saw that video. It says a lot that he's coming back to the brand even after he had all those issues.
And I don't think his car will be anywhere near $150K, more like $127k. Reason being that, even though he is paying $7k for custom paint, he is forgoing a lot of the expensive options like Burmester sound system, PDDC, Sports Exhaust, PDK, etc.
Ferrari. Too bad I'm a filthy peasant who can't afford one. ;_;
Welp, my plans of ordering my Challenger have been temporarily dashed
That sucks bro. Some dealers can be real scumbags. Good luck with the search.
GHG
Member
We test drove one before deciding on a VW Tiguan for my wife.
Nice car, great engine, very comfortable, surprisingly good driving dynamics for an SUV and we actually preferred it over what we got but we got a good deal on the Tiguan so we went with that.
From what I hear the v6 engine is very reliable as well. Can't go wrong with them IMO. Why don't you look at the GLA as well? Or is that a bit on the small side?
Fallout-NL
Member
Welp, my plans of ordering my Challenger have been temporarily dashed
Exchanged a few more emails with the dealers, when someone else from the same dealer kind of takes over and starts chatting with me, and he asks me to come in and test drive what's already on the lot.
I tell him I'd love to - but does he have a manual Scat Pack w/ the features I asked for, and is he willing to let it go under the terms I outlined.
And that's when the typical "dealer bullshit" starts rearing its ugly head. He goes on about how he has "much better options" on the lot, that he can give an even greater discount on. I told him I understand he probably can, but I don't need many of the extras. I'll gladly take them, though, again, if he can meet my pricing.
That's when he says "well, you're asking for a very aggressive sale that we just can't do. We can probably get you under $600/month."
I politely tell him that I can get under $600 a month just about anywhere - that I started my dialogue sharing that other dealers could get under $550 (which is a lie, lowest quote was $560, admittedly).
He shoots back and again asks for my credit, and if I wanted to trade anything in. I reminded him I have above an 800 score and should easily be eligible for their best rates. I tell him I'm not interested in trading anything.
He completely ignores my reply and says I outta come in again, see what they have.
Nope.jpeg
So, I politely tell him that if he can meet my terms that his associate already said was do-able, I'll come in and sign today. Hell, I'll even put down the first payment or a refundable deposit if he wants. But unless he can commit to that, I'm not looking to make the trek to the dealer, yet.
The hunt continues!
This is why I buy cash.
$142k, that's not too bad. Know what a base 911 costs here in the Netherlands? That's a base base base no nothing little 3 litre eco turbo 911.2 - - - $127k
/edit: I love how annoyed Matt is at people not getting the fuck out the way.
whatsinaname
Member
1) Cash nowadays doesn't give you great discounts while buying cars.
2) Why lock up money when you can get amazing interest rates for auto loans?
Yo, Jeremy Clarkson just posted this on his Facebook. Let's apply for an AutoGAF tribe!
Who's in?
http://drivetribe.com/driven#lead-a-tribe
Who's in?
http://drivetribe.com/driven#lead-a-tribe
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Well now you're just putting words into my mouth. Where did I say *I* don't care for that stuff? I said the people who buy Porsche Panameras and Cayennes don't - the vast, vast majority of them. Market research, unfortunately, reflects that. Why do you think BMWs have gotten softer and softer? M5s and M6s have sold more and more the less hardcore they've become. That's simply because the average consumer wants to buy a fancy badge and putter the car about on posh streets.
I'm sure the car will drive amazing. The interior is beautiful. It looks amazing. But having sampled a base Macan and base Cayenne, I found that neither of those two cars were worth their starting price. Thus my apprehension.
Then again, the 4S isn't the base car technically, since there is the yet-to-be-revealed 365HP base motor 3.0T Panamera, which is going to ring in around $88K.
Speaking from personal experience, if your girl likes the GLK, you are getting a GLK, regardless of what any of us say. lol
Edit: I'm in the mood to play some more Forza Horizon 2. Never really played multiplayer. You guys wanna get a group together? I still need to beat the Porsche expansion.
GHG
Member
Yeh my wife liked it for that very reason, she said "it's kind of like a baby G-Wagon".
Diesel? Think I spy an Ultra badge on the back
Edit - revs to 6K max. I've answered my own question.
Good strong engine the 2.0 oil burner.
Because car notes are the abaolute worst and that outweighs 1 and 2. Unfortunately they are a necessary evil if you are a car lover and aren't loaded.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I've said it before and I'll say it again, you shouldn't splurge on a depreciating asset, especially not with cash. Pay the bank as the car depreciates its value. And if the car gets totaled or damaged with a bad CarFax, it's not your problem when its written off or has to be returned end of lease.
Used cars are a different story, as their depreciation usually slows down A LOT after 3 years.
Should be fairly good on fuel. Even in my Dad's lump of an A6 he can get mid-50s on a long run.
Thats awesome. I wish we could get the TT with a manual or the diesel in the US. We're stuck with just the 2.0L gas engine and the automatic.
GHG
Member
Congrats! Looks great.
The TT RS is due in a couple of months. The early reviews from Germany are saying its going to be pretty special.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
What a fantastic color. It makes the car look 10x better, to be honest.
They gave me a Diesel TT to test drive for an entire afternoon and doing Motorway driving (which is what I'll be doing a majority of the time) I was able to get around 55-60mpg on average.
They don't have the Diesel version in the US? Manual I can kind of understand since Americans seem to hate manual transmission, but why no diesel?
Thanks!
Doesn't the RS have a fixed spoiler though? I've never been much of a fan of TTs with the giant fixed spoiler on the back.
I saw that colour on a TT in the showroom when I was visiting the dealer and instantly fell in love with it. It's a Pearlescent colour, Daytona Grey.