That's kind of their shtick, actually.
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Automotive Discussion Thread | OT2 | Zero to pointless fighting faster than a GT86
- Thread starter AlphaSnake
- Start date
That's kind of their shtick, actually.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
It's impossible.
The business model is built around no haggling for a number of reasons:
1: Employee compensation. They make a flat rate on cars and I believe extra if they sell you a warranty...
2: ...which leads us to said warranty. Publications such as Jalopnik rave about how inexpensive these warranties are. But what they don't know if that the warranties are subsidized through the price of every car they sell. Whether you buy a warranty or not, you are paying for a portion of that warranty that you either bought OR didn't buy.
If a comparable BMW 335i is $30K at a reputable private dealer, but $33K at CarMax, that's because the $3K extra is what keeps the price of the warranty so low when you look into purchasing it through them. So when they quote you a price of $1800 for an additional 5 years and 72 miles of bumper-to-bumper coverage, you're actually paying $4800 for it (if not more, since at the other dealer you can haggle). Not $1800.
3: They also low-ball the shit out of trade-ins and make huge margins when they put them up on the lot.
Those were pretty good reads, especially the Vorshlag one - it's great to see them dig into the car and go over details of the car that you would never see in professional reviews. I'm also going to take a look at their Evo and BRZ threads.
As far as the shortcomings of the RS go, it was a bit eye opening to read about the design and performance of the rear differential/rear drive unit. I'm sure Ford bet that it won't affect the majority of RS owners who will never track their cars but it still casts a pall over the car.
Yup, convenience is a huge draw, and I can't blame people if they don't want to deal with lowballers and shady folks. But damn, if you look at anything that's relatively new there, you would think car depreciation is not really a thing.
All of this is true but they sure are convenient and easy to deal with. Having been through the buying process about 10 times in the last 8 years (not just for me, relatives ask my help also!) Carmax has the double advantage of little to no pressure and a speedy buying process.
I've also noticed that, at least around here, car lots that undercut Carmax prices by any significant degree do so because they aren't doing any significant inspection or refurbishment of their product. They pretty much sale "as is" and it is on you if you don't notice that the car needs new tires or isn't aligned properly or has a minor oil leak (or several of them) or any number of other issues.
We have several major chains in the Atlanta area that operate by selling nice cars at well below average retail but having dealt with two of them in the last couple of years I can see where they are saving their money. If you buy from them your car is probably due an oil change, a battery and maybe a set of tires, at the very least.
I'm not saying all of Carmax's product is perfect but by and large they seem to to be selling vehicles that do not require any significant mechanical or service investment for the customer right after the initial sale. And to a lot of folks, that is a pretty big win.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I'd say 90% of dealers selling luxury cars are selling off lease vehicles with bad titles or accidents. It is an epidemic in NYC and they target lower-demographics who have poor credit and want to desperately drive an expensive looking car. Same thing in Florida. Hell, there's an entire company called "Off Lease Only" that specializes this.
Cheap dealers will never put money into a car, but OEM dealerships themselves have to if they put it on the lot. Likewise, in NY State and other places with state inspections, it's mandatory to make sure brakes and tires are above certain wear limits.
And yeah, don't get me wrong, I've considered CarMax before for buying a used unreliable car with a crazy long warranty.
That Vorshlag write-up was interesting and really well done. I would recommend it to any and all enthusiasts, regardless of your interest in the Focus RS. There's a lot of good information in there about what makes a good, fast track car that is universally applicable to all situations. I really enjoyed reading it this morning over coffee so thanks for the link!
When I looked at Carmax a year ago they were priced over the manufacturers certified preowned vehicles from dealers (which includes a lot more warranty than Carmax anyway). No idea why anyone buys from that place.
Frustrated_me
Member
Thanks, I decided to just replace 1 tire for now.
The day that my Dad and I spent shopping for his car last summer was pretty eye opening. I've written about it here before but we started out at Global Imports BMW which is a fairly marquee BMW dealership for the north Atlanta area. The salesman was young and eager and while he did a good job of showing my Dad what the 328i was capable of he also made some mistakes; namely he showed us a car that Dad loved the color and options on but was already spoken for by someone else.
It was an honest mistake. The salesmen just didn't check before allowing us to test it. But when we finally got around to Carmax they had a car in the same color with nearly the same options and the price was very close to the BMW price. The salesman was easy going, very polite and was older and more professional than the young guy at the BMW dealership. All of these factors made it very easy for Dad to make a purchase from Carmax rather than buying one from Global Imports.
Maybe we could have found a better deal on a similar car elsewhere with more time and more research but the Carmax price was fair, the color and options were right and Dad was satisfied.
I mentioned 10 cars in the last 8 years. 3 of those came from Carmax, 7 did not. I have no particular interest in seeing Carmax succeed or fail and I have no skin in the game, so to speak. But they have done a good job and provided good, reliable vehicles for us at a fair price on more than one occasion.
Hesemonni
Banned
Today I saw a S Class Cabriolet in flesh and ejaculated instantaneously. Seriously, latest Mercedes have really achieved what the company has faltered with during the last, say, 10 years or so: desirability.
PS. Like the owner of this example, I too always store my cars on the helipad of my yacht situated in the Mediterranean.
33-Hit-Combo
Member
Has anyone had a go in an M140i?
YuriLowell
Member
Thanks guys for the Carmax info.
I saw a 2014 EVO X close to me but it seems priced high compared to what some people are paying at the dealers for similarly priced cars.
But I think im out of the evo game.
I saw a 2014 EVO X close to me but it seems priced high compared to what some people are paying at the dealers for similarly priced cars.
But I think im out of the evo game.
Shortt Sirket
Member
Didn't someone post here recently about a friend of theirs building their own amazing car wash bay?
Was it this guy who just posted a full album on reddit?
http://m.imgur.com/a/2mlAa
Was it this guy who just posted a full album on reddit?
http://m.imgur.com/a/2mlAa
One thing I didn't get in to with regards to Carmax is that the more common the car is, the more competitive their price will be in comparison to other dealers. So far we've bought a Nissan Altima a Mitsubishi Lancer and a BMW 328i, all really common easy to find stuff. On cars that are harder to find they will almost always be more expensive.
First leak of the McLaren 650S successor, the P14. Supposed to be a baby P1 with a host of new technologies to dominate the Ferrari 488. Who's ordering one?
Yesss... Join me in the Porsche world and never look back.
M3 daily, GT3 weekend, and Raptor for winter/hauling. Man's got good taste.
Yesss... Join me in the Porsche world and never look back.
M3 daily, GT3 weekend, and Raptor for winter/hauling. Man's got good taste.
YuriLowell
Member
Yesss... Join me in the Porsche world and never look back.
Man the only thing in my price range would be a 997 non turbo.
There's always the Cayman, you know, for the people that can't afford Ferraris.
Duracelllll
Member
Time to start another all day detail. Here's the before.
First leak of the McLaren 650S successor, the P14. Supposed to be a baby P1 with a host of new technologies to dominate the Ferrari 488. Who's ordering one?
Yesss... Join me in the Porsche world and never look back.
M3 daily, GT3 weekend, and Raptor for winter/hauling. Man's got good taste.
I can't tell the McLarens apart :-(
Ironic from an Audi driver I know. But when the price difference could be a million dollars I'd like some distinction.
mmazurkiewicz
Member
So this years C&D Lightning Lap and MTs Best Drivers Car Laguna Seca lap times have caused quite a stir across the internet.
Chevrolet shitting on everyone basically.
$70k Grand Sport one tenth down at VIR to a $300k GT3 RS.
$40k 1LE Camaro barely slower than a $150k M4 GTS at VIR and faster at Laguna Seca.
Ive said it months back in this thread, the Grand Sport is mine next year. Would have went 1LE if it wasn't the 1SS and had the A10 tranny in it.
edit:
oh forgot one thing. the new Audi R8 V10 Plus is one big slow "supercar". 2 seconds slower than a $40k 1LE Camaro.
Chevrolet shitting on everyone basically.
$70k Grand Sport one tenth down at VIR to a $300k GT3 RS.
$40k 1LE Camaro barely slower than a $150k M4 GTS at VIR and faster at Laguna Seca.
Ive said it months back in this thread, the Grand Sport is mine next year. Would have went 1LE if it wasn't the 1SS and had the A10 tranny in it.
edit:
oh forgot one thing. the new Audi R8 V10 Plus is one big slow "supercar". 2 seconds slower than a $40k 1LE Camaro.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
VAG is nerfing the R8 out of the factory so that it doesn't hurt sales of the Huracan. They have very poor suspension geometry setups which causes them to understeer. And it all boils down to the alignment.
Have to say i don't like the looks of the modern mclaren cars but i see an improvement here.
Ordering one? Hell no, only NA sportscars for me. I don't care if they are faster and better, the sound will always be inferior.
GHG
Member
Yep I'm in agreement at the moment. That's why I'm seriously considering something like an RS5 or MC Stradale and putting a custom exhaust on it as my next car.
I feel like its my duty to have a screaming V8 before they completely die out.
YuriLowell
Member
Wait the 1LE Camaro is barely slower than the m3 gts?
Wtf BMW.
Wtf BMW.
Highly recommend the screaming V8. One of the reasons I will never sell my M5 is because that V8 roaring with the ITBs gulping air sounds like a Formula 1 car, beastly and exotic. Phenomenal experience. Can't wait to mic up the car so it can be shared.
From a performance standpoint, GM nailed it with the current-gen Camaro SS. It's just too bad that it hasn't translated into sales for them as the Mustang is eating its lunch. I wonder how much of that is due to the styling, because every time I see one on the road, I have no idea if it's a new or old one.
Yeah. In particular, it looks too much like the mid-cycle refresh of the previous generation. The front end's more noticeably different from the original 5th gen's.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Yep. On the outside, it just looks cheap and uninspired. Even the paint looks so bleh and dull, for some reason. The Mustangs have beautiful hues with great sheen, and with the performance packs or the GT350s they look so aggressive. For some reason body add-ons really do wonders on them, more so than most other cars.
Random question, but why are BMW M6 depreciating faster than the M3 and M5? There are some from 2007-2009 that go for under 30K. Was there some time bomb in there due to some stereotypical German over engineering?
At those prices I'm tempted to trade in my 2013 328i xDrive just to have one of the V10 in my garage. (I already have a Subaru to haul the family around)
At those prices I'm tempted to trade in my 2013 328i xDrive just to have one of the V10 in my garage. (I already have a Subaru to haul the family around)
Because that V10 alone is worth $30K and if anything goes wrong with it, the car is pretty much a total loss at that point.
The new Panamera's such a visual upgrade.
Also, I totally missed that there's a C7 Grand Sport. Be still, my beating heart.
It's also just the nature of luxury GT coupe pricing. My M6 is a 2010, last year of production with unique features like hard drive nav instead of DVD, with only 42k miles. But it's probably worth a little over $30k.
Also, I totally missed that there's a C7 Grand Sport. Be still, my beating heart.
It's also just the nature of luxury GT coupe pricing. My M6 is a 2010, last year of production with unique features like hard drive nav instead of DVD, with only 42k miles. But it's probably worth a little over $30k.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
That doesn't answer his question, because the M5 is the same car and didn't depreciate as fast.
The real answer is: because it's ugly. Also, a lot of them are very poorly maintained with shaky CarFaxes. My best friend and I spent a lot of time looking for a good M6 earlier this year for him, and the majority (say 7/10) were not in optimal shape or close to it. Some have had clear resprays done on certain body parts, some ran rough. One of the M6s had a broken door card inside that just pulled open...it felt like someone was using it to stash something between the door panel and the door card. It was pretty weird, since it's not something that breaks so easily inside.
Then there were the 06-07 models which had the undesirable engine design that would prevent 2 quarts of oil from draining out during oil changes (there was no second plug), and as a result those 06-07 models had engines that would fail hardcore. 06-07 cars also had significant differential and SMG failures too. 08+ cars improved a lot on these issues, but the car has since caught an unreliable vibe which is currently scaring people off. In a few years, V10s will be so desirable that the prices of them will probably start going up.
Furthermore, 2012+ M6s are depreciating like tanks, which is pushing values of the E6x M6s down more. Current M6s can be had in the $40-50K range used, which is what I paid for my 2012 XKR in mint shape, with only 27K miles. Both cars cost nearly the same amount (about $105 when new). The BMW depreciated as significantly as the Jaguar.
If you have deep pockets to maintain these cars and are committed to a V10, I'd get one. Although, I'd probably get an M5 since it is a very handsome looking car. Depreciation will likely stop on these cars shortly, and in a few years will certainly go up as the whole industry will step away from NA vehicles. An NA V10 will be a coveted treasure.
100% true. The E63 M6 is fucking hideous. What a god awful design. It is most likely the ugliest BMW ever made IMO. It's like Chris Bangle smashed his head on concrete shortly before trying to pay homage to the original M6.
The F13 M6 is gorgeous though, a massive recovery from the Banglization of the poor E63.
mmazurkiewicz
Member
One other funny thing is that the V6 1LE is faster than the Mustang GT PP. Down 100HP and still faster around a track.
Ford must have spent their engineering resources on the GT350/R/500 and forgotten about its competition with the regular Camaros.
Ford must have spent their engineering resources on the GT350/R/500 and forgotten about its competition with the regular Camaros.
The current M6 GC is the best looking car in BMWs lineup (excluding i8). It is fire in person.
Unrelated, but does anyone know if Chevy ever fixed the Z06 issues?
mmazurkiewicz
Member
They've apparently fixed them in the 2017 which comes out in a few weeks.
YuriLowell
Member
The TT V8 in the current M6 is also hot garbage. All of BMWs current engines are awful.
None of the dealers around here are listing the SS Camaro as having the 1LE package.
Are they just hard to find?
None of the dealers around here are listing the SS Camaro as having the 1LE package.
Are they just hard to find?
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
More truth bombs. I like driving my brother's M6 when I'm in NYC, but the power behind it (while terrific) is so uninspired. Nothing at all impressive about that lump, no character, no personality, just nothing. Plus they do have reliability issues here and there.
Where as when he had his E63 M6, that thing was a hoot. Steered better, felt more planted, and made a beautiful sound (M6 had a more open exhaust than the M5). It's only downfall was the SMG transmission, but there was a way to get around by lifting your foot off the throttle when shifting.
YuriLowell
Member
And now that BMW has decided to go modular for all their engine designs, all of the timing is on the back of the motor.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Omg...if you have to drop the motor just to do a chain replacement, that'd be hell. The worst part about this upcoming 4.0 V8 is that rumor says Jaguar may be using it too. Which, imo, will be the beginning of the end for my love of the brand as it stands now. I don't want anything BMW designed in a British car.
The death of the Jaguar AJIII 5.0 to make way for a twin-turbo piece of shit BMW motor will forever scar me. I'll still end up loving (and possibly keeping) my own XKR and possibly a future F-Type purchase (I'm looking into getting a V6 6MT because I believe they will appreciate), but I'll likely never own another Jaguar product ever again if it's straddled with a BMW motor.
YuriLowell
Member
You gotta drop the motor to do alot of shit on these new engines.
All of the techs I know hate this new modular design.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Time to start another all day detail. Here's the before.
I would like for my project car to look like your before...
GHG
Member
Here and there? Breh, all the BMW N63/S63 engines have problems. At least here in the heat of Dubai they do.
Nightmare to do any maintenance work on as well because most jobs require the engine to come out. Current M5's and M6's here go for next to nothing because everyone in the market for a car like that knows about BMW's engine problems in this region. Its been made worse by the fact that most of the engine related recalls that have taken place in Europe and the US on these engines have never applied in this region for sone reason. It's like BMW just said "fuck it, they are all rich over there, we will just make them pay when their engine inevitably blows on them".
Never again.