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Automotive Discussion Thread | OT2 | Zero to pointless fighting faster than a GT86
- Thread starter AlphaSnake
- Start date
rokkerkory
Member
Evo > sti anyways
I dunno. The GT3 is pretty easy to DD. I used to drive an Evo 9 with a race setup suspension and catless exhaust. I doubt the GT4 will be rougher than that. The only thing that would turn me off from getting one would be if they went with a 4 cylinder motor.
My man!
mmazurkiewicz
Member
if Evos as so great why are they stopping their production?
meanwhile WRX/STIs are selling in record numbers.
FANBOYS...
meanwhile WRX/STIs are selling in record numbers.
FANBOYS...
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Because Mitsubishi is/was ran by morons? Doesn't mean they didn't make a quality car with the Evo. Not that I prefer either, just making a point.
LowEndTorque
Member
Test drove a BRZ and fell in love with the handling and driving dynamics. Only question is whether to wait for the factory tuned turbo to come out or to buy a NA and put a bolt on turbo with custom tune. Something tells me when the stock turbos come out they will have STI-like pricing and won't maximize the potential of the engine. I'm thinking it might be cheaper and end up with more power by going the custom route.
I love the evo but I couldn't buy one it was overdue for interior refinement and the exterior styling is slightly dated for me, also the fact that the model will not be produced any longer weighed on my decision.
I won't be nodding or tuning the engine on the sti I plan a few cosmetic upgrades a axle back exhaust and that's it.
I plan to own the sti for 4-6 Years at which point I'll go back to market and see what's out and potentially go into German territory.
I test drove an S3 and liked it. Salesman let me test out the launch control. It's quick. My only complaint is - like the CLA250 - the S3 doesn't have a lot of space in the 2nd row. I test drove an S4 as well (which I liked more because of the extra space), but I think I'm probably going to end up leasing a 328xDrive when the time comes; it's quick enough to still to be fun and I can save money towards my weekend car purchase.
Lmao this is my favourite post.
badscooter
Member
Even taken with the usual grain of salt, Jack Baruth's review of it gives me the chills.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/news/a24888/first-drive-2016-mazda-mx5-miata/
Kudos to those who support Mazda and buy one.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
My friend's 10 year old grandson fits in the back of my '82 911 just fine. You'd be surprised who can fit back there.
Okay, doesn't mean I'd want to cram a baby seat back there, though.
When is a new Z coming?!
mmazurkiewicz
Member
Mitsubishi as a whole may be a poorly run brand, but if the car is as good as the fanboys say, it should sell itself, and certainly outsell the STI with the "garbage motor".
Interferon
Member
Couldn't agree more
The EJ25 is old, and well overdue for a successor, but the issues with it are greatly overstated. A majority of the issues with it can be chalked up to mods without a proper tune, a shit stock tune, bad oil and/or bad gas. As well as the driver just generally beating the shit out of the thing.
m_shortpants
Member
My uncle just got a S65 V12 biturbo
Wow
Wow
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Should be revealed at the end of the year in Tokyo or Los Angeles.
Jesus. Wtf does your uncle do? That's a $200K car. Hahaha.
jongkookie
Member
I wholeheartedly agree.
I mean sure I'd buy an STI if I had no choice, but I'd still take the Evo X MR even though it's not a stick, simply because it's an Evo.
Poor marketing and Mitsubishi stupidity is the only reason why it never sold that well.
The Evo VIII's that were sold in America weren't even anywhere close to their Japanese counterparts, no Active Yaw Control, no 6-speed tranny, no LSD, as well as a shitty tune to pass US emission standards. It wasn't until the end of the Evo VIII's where they got an LSD and the 6-speed, but even then, they were still pretty gimped.
Evo IX rolls by and pretty much the same thing, no AYC and that shitty tune.
Mitsubishi finally got serious about the Evo when they released the Evo X, seeing as how the STI was eating up the market share despite arguably being much more inferior compared to the Evo's, also the Nissan GT-R rolled by. They realized that differentiating between the Japanese and American models doesn't do them any good so they cleaned off their plate and started new. IIRC, the only difference between those two models is that the Japanese Evo X still has the govt. mandated 276hp limit. Everything else is exactly the same unlike before.
But even after all this, the Evo still couldn't beat the STI sales wise because of 3 factors: No WRX competitor, aftermarket support wasn't as huge and the most important of all, production numbers. An WRX competitor would've helped since the Evo's are hella expensive... anybody who shopped either one would see how cheap the WRX was and once they figure out that you can mod it to STI levels... of course who wouldn't want the WRX? Aftermarket support is necessary in the cheap performance car industry, just look at the muscle cars, the Miata and of course the WRX/STI... all are still surviving because there are dedicated and amazing aftermarket support.
And of course the production numbers... IIRC 1 Evo sold = 3 STI's sold, pretty much because Mitsubishi stupidly limited it's production and made it almost like a unicorn car status. A lot of times you had to go to the dealer and order an Evo or get them to trade with a dealer who has one, then you had to wait until it got there. STI's on the other hand, while they didn't take up all the space in the lot, they had at least enough to where you could drive out the dealership with one on the same day.
I hate this. All it's doing is making me weak in the knees and thinking about how I could trade my 3rd gen Miata for this beauty. Fnck man, I even just spent $1.5k on my Miata last year upgrading the suspension and exhaust... I don't wanna throw that money away that easily, but it's soooooooooooooo tempting.
Tallshortman
Member
I know its lighter but I see no reason why the new miata engine has less hp than the old motor,its not even some tiny 1 liter.
I wholeheartedly agree.
I mean sure I'd buy an STI if I had no choice, but I'd still take the Evo X MR even though it's not a stick, simply because it's an Evo.
Poor marketing and Mitsubishi stupidity is the only reason why it never sold that well.
The Evo VIII's that were sold in America weren't even anywhere close to their Japanese counterparts, no Active Yaw Control, no 6-speed tranny, no LSD, as well as a shitty tune to pass US emission standards. It wasn't until the end of the Evo VIII's where they got an LSD and the 6-speed, but even then, they were still pretty gimped.
Evo IX rolls by and pretty much the same thing, no AYC and that shitty tune.
Mitsubishi finally got serious about the Evo when they released the Evo X, seeing as how the STI was eating up the market share despite arguably being much more inferior compared to the Evo's, also the Nissan GT-R rolled by. They realized that differentiating between the Japanese and American models doesn't do them any good so they cleaned off their plate and started new. IIRC, the only difference between those two models is that the Japanese Evo X still has the govt. mandated 276hp limit. Everything else is exactly the same unlike before.
But even after all this, the Evo still couldn't beat the STI sales wise because of 3 factors: No WRX competitor, aftermarket support wasn't as huge and the most important of all, production numbers. An WRX competitor would've helped since the Evo's are hella expensive... anybody who shopped either one would see how cheap the WRX was and once they figure out that you can mod it to STI levels... of course who wouldn't want the WRX? Aftermarket support is necessary in the cheap performance car industry, just look at the muscle cars, the Miata and of course the WRX/STI... all are still surviving because there are dedicated and amazing aftermarket support.
And of course the production numbers... IIRC 1 Evo sold = 3 STI's sold, pretty much because Mitsubishi stupidly limited it's production and made it almost like a unicorn car status. A lot of times you had to go to the dealer and order an Evo or get them to trade with a dealer who has one, then you had to wait until it got there. STI's on the other hand, while they didn't take up all the space in the lot, they had at least enough to where you could drive out the dealership with one on the same day.
I hate this. All it's doing is making me weak in the knees and thinking about how I could trade my 3rd gen Miata for this beauty. Fnck man, I even just spent $1.5k on my Miata last year upgrading the suspension and exhaust... I don't wanna throw that money away that easily, but it's soooooooooooooo tempting.
WRX/STI's are just now at the level the Evo X was... in 2008.
Great post by Jongkookie, btw. Anyone that knows Evo's know that they run circles around STI's. Not to mention the motors are as bulletproof as a Honda motor. They essentially are turbo-Honda motors.
Hit me up when that junk STI motor can do 600 whp on the stock block like a 4G63, aka the most bad-ass 4 cylinder motor of all-time. The Evo is a legendary icon, a true enthusiast's car, and rare. STI's are a dime a dozen.
I wholeheartedly agree.
I mean sure I'd buy an STI if I had no choice, but I'd still take the Evo X MR even though it's not a stick, simply because it's an Evo.
Poor marketing and Mitsubishi stupidity is the only reason why it never sold that well.
The Evo VIII's that were sold in America weren't even anywhere close to their Japanese counterparts, no Active Yaw Control, no 6-speed tranny, no LSD, as well as a shitty tune to pass US emission standards. It wasn't until the end of the Evo VIII's where they got an LSD and the 6-speed, but even then, they were still pretty gimped.
Evo IX rolls by and pretty much the same thing, no AYC and that shitty tune.
Mitsubishi finally got serious about the Evo when they released the Evo X, seeing as how the STI was eating up the market share despite arguably being much more inferior compared to the Evo's, also the Nissan GT-R rolled by. They realized that differentiating between the Japanese and American models doesn't do them any good so they cleaned off their plate and started new. IIRC, the only difference between those two models is that the Japanese Evo X still has the govt. mandated 276hp limit. Everything else is exactly the same unlike before.
But even after all this, the Evo still couldn't beat the STI sales wise because of 3 factors: No WRX competitor, aftermarket support wasn't as huge and the most important of all, production numbers. An WRX competitor would've helped since the Evo's are hella expensive... anybody who shopped either one would see how cheap the WRX was and once they figure out that you can mod it to STI levels... of course who wouldn't want the WRX? Aftermarket support is necessary in the cheap performance car industry, just look at the muscle cars, the Miata and of course the WRX/STI... all are still surviving because there are dedicated and amazing aftermarket support.
And of course the production numbers... IIRC 1 Evo sold = 3 STI's sold, pretty much because Mitsubishi stupidly limited it's production and made it almost like a unicorn car status. A lot of times you had to go to the dealer and order an Evo or get them to trade with a dealer who has one, then you had to wait until it got there. STI's on the other hand, while they didn't take up all the space in the lot, they had at least enough to where you could drive out the dealership with one on the same day.
I hate this. All it's doing is making me weak in the knees and thinking about how I could trade my 3rd gen Miata for this beauty. Fnck man, I even just spent $1.5k on my Miata last year upgrading the suspension and exhaust... I don't wanna throw that money away that easily, but it's soooooooooooooo tempting.
Mitsubishi doesn't have the manufacturing luxury that Subaru does. That was the biggest problem. Subaru has the Outback, the Impreza and the Forester. Mitsubishi has the....? Nothing. Maybe the Eclipse back in the day? No one buys any of Mitsubishi's cars at any scale. They are shrinking and dying. So they can't spent money on a niche brand like the EVO.
The WRX/STI has always been a daily driver cheap compromise for the casual car enthusiast. It's a sported up family car. The EVO was always a race thoroughbred. So you simply can't get the numbers to make it popular. The average car enthusiast could drive an STI all day on a road trip with friends/fam and then go have some weekend fun on their own. The EVO's seats and suspension and ride noise? Only hardcore car nuts would tolerate it for long. It makes it a great trackable car, but a limited production car for sure. The price too.. at $40k you get zero luxuries along with your crappy ride feel... your wife and kids aren't going to tolerate that at that price. At $25k? Maybe and easier sell.
Subaru doesn't want to mess with a good thing sales wise, why attack a niche market when you make more cash in a broad market? Best of all the old STI's like the 22B's legacy still holds true to consumers today. People equate STI with WRC winning and competitiveness enough though that happens been the case for years. But the average Joe goes... Oh snap STI!
Also the Japanese government didn't mandate a limit. The car manufacturers had a gentleman's agreement (which they've all abolished now... obviously).
I still like STI's though.
I'd buy one.Mitsubishi doesn't have the manufacturing luxury that Subaru does. That was the biggest problem. Subaru has the Outback, the Impreza and the Forester. Mitsubishi has the....? Nothing. Maybe the Eclipse back in the day? No one buys any of Mitsubishi's cars at any scale. They are shrinking and dying. So they can't spent money on a niche brand like the EVO.
The WRX/STI has always been a daily driver cheap compromise for the casual car enthusiast. It's a sported up family car. The EVO was always a race thoroughbred. So you simply can't get the numbers to make it popular. The average car enthusiast could drive an STI all day on a road trip with friends/fam and then go have some weekend fun on their own. The EVO's seats and suspension and ride noise? Only hardcore car nuts would tolerate it for long. It makes it a great trackable car, but a limited production car for sure. The price too.. at $40k you get zero luxuries along with your crappy ride feel... your wife and kids aren't going to tolerate that at that price. At $25k? Maybe and easier sell.
Subaru doesn't want to mess with a good thing sales wise, why attack a niche market when you make more cash in a broad market? Best of all the old STI's like the 22B's legacy still holds true to consumers today. People equate STI with WRC winning and competitiveness enough though that happens been the case for years. But the average Joe goes... Oh snap STI!
Also the Japanese government didn't mandate a limit. The car manufacturers had a gentleman's agreement (which they've all abolished now... obviously).
I still like STI's though.
I don't think you've ridden in many Evo's. With factory Bilsteins, they ride very well, especially the X. Even the stock non-Bilstein X suspension is somewhat plush.
The stock KYB's on 8's and 9's are kinda junky but those too ride well with Bilsteins and quality aftermarket suspension.
The Evo is what you want if you want reliable, high-end performance. It is one of the all-time greatest platforms for modding, hands down. In fact, dollar for dollar, there might not be a better car for modding both handling/straight line speed from what I know. The STI is what I'd recommend for someone that just daily drives and isn't really modding a lot (that motor can't handle it).
Only a loyally follower of the cult of Evo would use the world "plush" to describe an Evo's ride or you're trolling me. Or maybe you've just never ridden in anything other than high perf cars? lol
Is the ride tolerable enough to get your speed fix? Sure. Does it get better the dater you go? Yup that's thr point. But to the avg person? The person who tools around town and hangs out at 35MPH. It's slightly better than sitting on a 2x4.
I have driven a bunch of Evo's over the years, never owned one though.
But don't take my word for it.... Read any review of any Evo ever from any publication.
I'm not sure why you're even defending it. No one... NO ONE buys an Evo for its ride comfort. No one who wants one cares. That's not the point. But it is part of the point of why it's a niche car compared to the WRX.
I'd buy an Evo too btw. They're sweet.
YuriLowell
Member
My Evo 9 MR rides just fine on the factory Bilsteins.
Nah. Really. Drive an X. They're not bad at all. I've ridden/driven/owned a lot of cars and I find the X to be inoffensive. The 8 and 9 are worse, but really, not bad at all.
When I think of bad ride quality/feeling every bump in the road, I think of the Lotus Elise. That car is an ergonomic nightmare.
Quiet bro, or you'll be accused of being a brainwashed follower of the "Cult of Evo." ;p
YuriLowell
Member
This. I don't know how anyone daily drives one.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
An argument between EVOs and STis?
JackNicholsonYes.gif
I for one prefer the looks of the Evo and the interior of the Evo, and the powertrain. The 4B motors have proven to be reliable. As have the 4Gs before it. I believe the FQ EVOs are running largely stock everything with the power just cranked up via ECU and a few small parts swapped out.
Plus Dual Clutch. I honestly thought that when the Evo X debuted with a dual clutch, they were going to destroy Subaru. While it's not the most sophisticated DCT out there, it's still good and the fanbase wanted it. But I do think continued use of a 5-speed began to aggravate a lot of folk.
JackNicholsonYes.gif
I for one prefer the looks of the Evo and the interior of the Evo, and the powertrain. The 4B motors have proven to be reliable. As have the 4Gs before it. I believe the FQ EVOs are running largely stock everything with the power just cranked up via ECU and a few small parts swapped out.
Plus Dual Clutch. I honestly thought that when the Evo X debuted with a dual clutch, they were going to destroy Subaru. While it's not the most sophisticated DCT out there, it's still good and the fanbase wanted it. But I do think continued use of a 5-speed began to aggravate a lot of folk.
Agreed. The Lotus Evora on the other hand... GODLY ride quality. Lotus really knocked their damper tuning out of the park with the Evora.
Well, the 5 speed is actually a FANTASTIC transmisson. Unlike the 6 spd in the 8/9 and the DCT in the MR X, the 5 speed transmissions can easily handle like 500 wtq before needing to be built.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Agreed. The Lotus Evora on the other hand... GODLY ride quality. Lotus really knocked their damper tuning out of the park with the Evora.
Well, the 5 speed is actually a FANTASTIC transmisson. Unlike the 6 spd in the 8/9 and the DCT in the MR X, the 5 speed transmissions can easily handle like 500 wtq before needing to be built.
It's a sturdy trans for sure. But I think people wanted a 6th gear because 5-speeds are just simply dated and also hurt fuel efficiency. An extra gear would've made the Evo X fantastic, closer ratios always improve the fun, imo.
But you bought an Evo 9 and an MR at that So... You're already what Sage level? Master of Ceremonies? I dunno the order of ranks
Lol come on! Again the avg person doesn't say "Gee... This car rides better than a no frills, stripped down street legal track car!"
I'm just explaning that the Evo's sales are low because it targets a very dedicated enthusiast market. One where people sacrifice DD comfort for race performance. The avg person can't justify a $40k price tag with a focus solely on perf. But a hardcore car nut can... Cause they love cars and love perf and want the best. The WRX/STI is way cushier and ever year gets slightly more cushier (reviews always call it out).
I can't decide if I want a manual or flappy paddles in my M235i.
They only had flappy when I test drove one, and god damn if it was not one of the most impressive auto boxes I've personally driven. Still. I miss my gearshifter.
The auto is quicker. By fractions of a second... I don't really plan on drag racing the car but still.
Wife can't drive stick (can anyones?) Good, she can't borrow my car, bad she can't drive me home if I have too many.
There seems to be a few demos and trade ins starting to surface, of course these are all autos.
Has anyone here actually driven the manual version? Reports from the net seem mixed. Some say its great, others say its crap.
They only had flappy when I test drove one, and god damn if it was not one of the most impressive auto boxes I've personally driven. Still. I miss my gearshifter.
The auto is quicker. By fractions of a second... I don't really plan on drag racing the car but still.
Wife can't drive stick (can anyones?) Good, she can't borrow my car, bad she can't drive me home if I have too many.
There seems to be a few demos and trade ins starting to surface, of course these are all autos.
Has anyone here actually driven the manual version? Reports from the net seem mixed. Some say its great, others say its crap.
YuriLowell
Member
But you bought an Evo 9 and an MR at that So... You're already what Sage level? Master of Ceremonies? I dunno the order of ranks
.
I'm not even sure myself.
What happens if I like STIs also?
Am I a bad person?
I still might sell my evo for a nice c6 z06.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I've driven other 6MT BMWs (3-series) and I'm sure they're all still using the same Getrag units in them. To which I think...they're not particularly good transmissions. Too soft and mushy, not that much sportiness to them. The ones in the E9x M3s are great. But the 335is...meh. Very generic feeling (and I believe the M235 uses the same box).
Tallshortman
Member
Just test drive the manual in any current 2 or 3 series on the lot, it is the same box.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I believe it's the exact same one, yes. Albeit different gearing ratios.
Moonroof may be standard on 235s.
And aftermarket LSDs exist, they're relatively inexpensive. $3K for an OEM BMW diff is way too much, I agree. A Quaife or Wavetrac will run about $1100-1300.
jongkookie
Member
Mitsubishi doesn't have the manufacturing luxury that Subaru does. That was the biggest problem. Subaru has the Outback, the Impreza and the Forester. Mitsubishi has the....? Nothing. Maybe the Eclipse back in the day? No one buys any of Mitsubishi's cars at any scale. They are shrinking and dying. So they can't spent money on a niche brand like the EVO.
The WRX/STI has always been a daily driver cheap compromise for the casual car enthusiast. It's a sported up family car. The EVO was always a race thoroughbred. So you simply can't get the numbers to make it popular. The average car enthusiast could drive an STI all day on a road trip with friends/fam and then go have some weekend fun on their own. The EVO's seats and suspension and ride noise? Only hardcore car nuts would tolerate it for long. It makes it a great trackable car, but a limited production car for sure. The price too.. at $40k you get zero luxuries along with your crappy ride feel... your wife and kids aren't going to tolerate that at that price. At $25k? Maybe and easier sell.
Subaru doesn't want to mess with a good thing sales wise, why attack a niche market when you make more cash in a broad market? Best of all the old STI's like the 22B's legacy still holds true to consumers today. People equate STI with WRC winning and competitiveness enough though that happens been the case for years. But the average Joe goes... Oh snap STI!
Also the Japanese government didn't mandate a limit. The car manufacturers had a gentleman's agreement (which they've all abolished now... obviously).
I still like STI's though.
Oh right, it was a gentleman's agreement. I keep getting the two confused for some reason.
Anyway, I think the whole manufacturing goes back to Mitsubishi's stupidity again. A lot of Mitsu fanboys argue that they should've remained as DSM instead of buying out Chrysler's share and becoming independent... at that point in time, it made sense that they wanted to become independent, as everybody and their mom was making bank in the industry. And I buy that reasoning if you ask me, Mazda succeeded long enough with Ford and look at how they turned out. They weren't necessarily making bank by staying as DSM, but they had the dealer networks due to Chrysler and that's how they made inroads here in the US. Buying out Chrysler's share kinda burned those bridges and their dealer network immediately shrunk.
Combine all that with the recession in 2008... welp, we all know how that turned out. Mitsubishi would probably still be alive these days if the recession never hit, but they were definitely not poised to do anything judging by how they were running the company in 2007.
As for the driving experience, I've actually only driven an STI since no one I know has an Evo. I've seen Evo's around but the owners tend to be the unfriendly types so I stay away lol. I didn't have enough seat time properly experience the suspension, but from the 15 minutes I drove it, I think I prefer my Miata's low and stiff suspension.
The racing pedigree is arguable though. No one I know bought an STI because they've seen it in the WRC and it seems to appeal to a lot of the boy racer types. Same thing goes for the Mazdaspeed3 actually, but that's another topic lol.
Tbh, the only car I have an unhealthy obsession with, besides the RX-7 and Miata of course, is a Tommi Makinen Evo VI. Shit was so fly in Gran Turismo, I could beat anybody with it. It makes me sad that I've gotta wait until 2024 before I can import one. Damn you stupid 25-year law!
Galant VR-4s are awesome, I have been keeping my eyes open for a nice one to come along over the past few years but haven't found a great one yet, just a bunch of intensive project cars.
Yes they fucking are, one of the greatest sleepers of all time. I too desire a nice VR-4 to toy around with. One of those and a 3000 GT VR4... yum.
Mitsubishi was such a beast in the '90s and '00s. The fucking 4G63 was made in the late 80's for fuck's sake. The only motors to ever come close to the 4G63 in the 4 cylinder world are the E30 M3's S14, the S2000's F20/F22, and the K20/24 family.
Even then, I'd still take the 4G63 because the engine is so highly evolved and ridiculously mod friendly. A turbo S2000 motor breathes a lot better, though.
The best place to find a Galant VR4 is here BTW:
http://www.galantvr4.org/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Board=UBB12
I see some really nice ones for sale right now.
Edit: Top of the next page, fuck the EJ25!
whatsinaname
Member
I guess it is understandable that an Evo fan is still stuck on 50ppp when the rest of the world has moved on.
I have no hat in this game, I haven't driven either car.
They are rare, only 3000 sold in the US. Far fewer remain today. The site FailWheelDrive linked to is by far the best resource out there for finding one. Finding one any other way would be sheer luck.
Here's some pics of my old one for the new page. I wish I had more pics of the interior, this car was really amazing for its time. 4WD, 4WS, intercooled turbo, ABS, discs all around. This thing came out in 1987!
Check this vid out from 2:27 mark onwards. That sound is orgasmic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGWJXk-ycds
BrokenEchelon
Banned
I think I'm going to have to beat Smokey to the punch. I plan to buy this summer/fall.