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Axios (Stephen Totilo) Lawyers: Email proves Microsoft’s ABK bid is designed to elimination (Update: MS claims it was a "thought experiment")
You’ve seen the unredacted email?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Where did I call the unredacted email that none of us have read as either fake or true ?
NickFire
Member
Stop it. I dismiss your claim it’s not related because of the date. I don’t profess to have certainty that it is related. I do say common sense suggests a 70 trillion dollar deal doesn’t happen overnight though.
So back to the question you keep dodging. Why is MS listing 2017 articles as exhibits if a 2019 email can’t possibly be related?
FF:Enhanced_Reality
Member
https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-14-boss-lobbying-microsoft-for-cross-platform-play
https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fan...to-microsoft-not-allowing-cross-platform-play
Bullshit. Sony started a cross play initiative when they started making games that worked on PS3 and Vita or PC. Sony approached Microsoft and they said no. They felt they were market leaders with XBOX 360 and they were pulling shady shit they didn't like used against them such as timed exclusives, especially DLC on major releases.
Microsoft later changed their response and stated that gamers would be required to have a Microsoft account to do it and Sony, quite rightly didn't agree to turn their console into an advertising tool for their competitors. PC cross play did not require a PSN account.
Drell
Member
That's not the point, you quoted them to show us something.
You're dellusional if you really think after Bethesda and (maybe) Activision, they'll just stop and compete nicely. That never was how they acted since their beginning.
Topher
Identifies as young
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MarkMe2525
Banned
Wait... I have to be missing something. All I see is a black box. Please tell me we aren't 13 pages in and we don't know what the email says.
Edit: my god my fears are confirmed. This is getting out of hand. Like seriously, what has this place become? There is literally nothing to discuss. Embarrassing
Edit: my god my fears are confirmed. This is getting out of hand. Like seriously, what has this place become? There is literally nothing to discuss. Embarrassing
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You are right, it doesn't.
But in this case what shuts your argument down is that in this case we know for a fact that Acti MS talks began in Nov 2021, less than 2 months before the deal was officially announced.
That's me calling the claim of it being about the ACTI buyout fake, see above for dates.
None of us know the content or context of the emails where Booty supposedly said that.
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Drell
Member
Nope, I'm only basing what I said about what is being presented here.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They are, they even engage in woke politics at times too. Honk honk.
Just... now hear me out... cover tech. But then again, Tweak Town has a history from other more serious tech sites as being hacks from time to time. I liked them in the distant past, but they had a lot of biases and nonsense over their tenure that would get them raked over the coals by other more serious sites and forums that just wanted data without personal biases and opinion. It's fucking tech, 1's and 0's and silicon. Let the tech do the talking, make a blog if you want to get up in your fee fee's.
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Sethbacca
Member
Nintendo's damage was self inflicted in the N64 & Gamecube era. 3rd parties ran away because of the cartridges and then the mini dvds since it was cheaper to make games elsewhere. To some extent Sony seems to be taking the lesson from Nintendo and focusing on quality software, but MS never got that memo since it apparently doesn't sell systems or something?
cireza
Member
You are delusional if you think they can buy every publisher on planet Earth without anyone preventing this.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Well, the CMA and FTC are preventing this one. You should all support those blocks then, shouldn't you?
Changing what? Sega was the one who did a much more open platform in contrast with Nintendo, it was Sega of Japan that was jealous, even the "block 2D games" issue from Bernie Stolar was still kept at SIE for many years, they just let pass the higher end ones.
Sony had much more money than Sega and Nintendo combined, at the time Microsoft was around 3-5x times more valuable than them, Sony owned the CD patents and factories, they had a verticailization, technology and money advantage to sell the PS1 at 299 in the west, they could spent 9 figures just for marketing and god knows how much in exclusives.
Topher
Identifies as young
cireza
Member
Unlike you, I don't care about them succeeding or failing. I am simply enjoying the ride.Well, the CMA and FTC are preventing this one. You should all support those blocks then, shouldn't you?
Klayzer
Member
Well, the CMA and FTC are preventing this one. You should all support those blocks then, shouldn't you?
NickFire
Member
Um, that is when a conversation happened. Does it state MS never internally discussed approaching Activision before that conversation? Does it state MS and Activision never spoke about possible opportunities beforehand?You are right, it doesn't.
But in this case what shuts your argument down is that in this case we know for a fact that Acti MS talks began in Nov 2021, less than 2 months before the deal was officially announced.
I bet it does not.
Also - still dodging. Why is 2017 relevant when you told us 2019 wasn’t mere hours ago?
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The Last YoJimboEmperor Jimbo, adorned in his traditional samurai armor, stood at the center of the grand hall in his magnificent palace. His loyal samurais, the most skilled warriors in the realm, gathered around him, their faces filled with anticipation and determination. They had received a grave message that Microsoft, a powerful rival empire, planned to annihilate the beloved PlayStation, a symbol of gaming excellence.
As the samurais stood in silent reverence, Emperor Jimbo addressed them with a voice that resonated with authority and resolve. "My honorable warriors, the winds of war blow upon us. The time has come for us to rise and defend what we hold dear—the legacy of PlayStation. Microsoft's ambitions threaten to cast a shadow over the realm of gaming, but we shall not yield. Together, we will protect the honor of our gaming empire."
The samurais, their spirits ignited by their emperor's words, raised their swords and shouted in unison, "For PlayStation!"
Emperor Jimbo nodded, acknowledging their unwavering loyalty. "We shall plan our strategy to counter the impending threat," he declared. "But first, let us remember our roots and honor the spirit of our ancestors."
The grand hall was transformed into a gallery of memories, showcasing the rich history of PlayStation. Portraits of legendary heroes adorned the walls, while ancient artifacts, consoles, and controllers were displayed on pedestals. The samurais marveled at the artifacts, reliving moments of triumph and exhilaration.
As night fell, Emperor Jimbo led his samurais to a tranquil garden illuminated by paper lanterns. They sat beneath the cherry blossom trees, the soft petals dancing in the breeze. The atmosphere was serene, yet tinged with anticipation.
Emperor Jimbo spoke with wisdom and determination. "My loyal samurais, we must forge alliances to strengthen our cause. Let us call upon the kingdoms of Nintendo and CMA, for together we possess the power to repel this encroaching darkness."
A messenger stepped forward, bearing scrolls of invitation addressed to the leaders of Nintendo and CMA. The samurais eagerly awaited their arrival, ready to discuss a united front against Microsoft's plans.
Days turned into nights as Emperor Jimbo and his samurais deliberated, forming a strategy to confront the impending threat. They studied maps, analyzed the enemy's tactics, and trained rigorously, their bodies and minds sharpened for the battles to come.
The fateful day arrived when the leaders of Nintendo and CMA, accompanied by their own loyal warriors, journeyed to Emperor Jimbo's palace. As they met in the grand hall, the atmosphere crackled with the electricity of unity and shared purpose.
Emperor Jimbo stood before his esteemed guests, his voice filled with conviction. "Today, we unite as warriors of gaming, bound by a common cause. Together, we shall unleash the full force of our gaming legacies upon our adversaries."
With heads held high, the leaders and their samurais pledged their allegiance to Emperor Jimbo and PlayStation. They exchanged knowledge, shared battle plans, and harnessed the collective strength of their respective empires.
In the ensuing days, the samurais trained tirelessly, their skills honed to perfection. They harnessed the power of collaboration, blending the distinct strengths of each gaming empire into a formidable force. Embracing their heritage and the spirit of their ancestors, they prepared to face the imminent clash.
When the armies of Microsoft descended upon the realm, they were met with a resolute resistance. The samurais, united under Emperor Jimbo's command, fought with unwavering determination. Their swords clashed, their controllers maneuvered with precision, and their battle cries echoed through the land.
Emperor Jimbo led from the front lines, his sword gleaming in the sunlight as he struck down opponents with calculated fury. The combined forces of PlayStation, Nintendo, and CMA proved to be an unstoppable alliance, pushing back Microsoft's onslaught and defending the realm of gaming.
In the end, victory belonged to the united empires of PlayStation, Nintendo, and CMA. The forces of Microsoft, overwhelmed by the sheer strength and resilience of their adversaries, retreated, their plans of annihilation foiled.
Emperor Jimbo, his samurais, and the leaders of Nintendo and CMA stood triumphant, their spirits lifted by their indomitable will and the power of unity. They knew that the spirit of gaming, the bonds forged in battle, and their unwavering dedication to their legacies would forever safeguard the realm they held dear.
Thus, Emperor Jimbo and his loyal samurais, having defended the honor of PlayStation, etched their names in the annals of gaming history, their reunion a testament to the unbreakable bonds forged in the fires of war.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
We *know* the email is not about the Acti acquisition as the lawyers originally claim, since it far predates any talks between MS and Acti about it.
We *don't know* the actual content of the email and what context Booty said that in.
We *know* based on the docket from Totilo that as part of the exhibits there is one email from 2019 from Totilo about Game Pass ARPU.
XesqueVara
Member
Bro we are literally discussing 14 pages over a redacted email, lmao.
How would you know it's a "fake claim" if you know nothing about what it says? That's the point.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The fact that it predates MS even approaching ACTI by 2+ years is enough to disprove the original claim:
They made various other partnerships between 2019 and 2022, it could be about any one of them.
Hell, it's more likely Booty was talking about Double Fine, like I posted before, since it's closer to the dates.
But then again, it could also be about Game Pass, at least it looks that way.
We won't know until we see the unredacted email for sure.
But we can very safely rule out this being about Acti just based on the timeline.
Thank you.
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As far as we know, this is a claim made by lawyers representing the Gamers lawsuit, a claim that might well be hyperbole or a deliberately skewed interpretation.
The fact that it’s dated 2019 also means it clearly doesn’t refer to this acquisition and predates any offer for Bethesda.
If the unredacted email was so damaging, you’d have to assume this would have been brought up by other regulators.
Topher
Identifies as young
We *know* the email is not about the Acti acquisition as the lawyers originally claim, since it far predates any talks between MS and Acti about it.
We *don't know* the actual content of the email and what context Booty said that in.
We *know* based on the docket from Totilo that as part of the exhibits there is one email from 2019 from Totilo about Game Pass ARPU.
Wrong. We don't know the dates of that email without seeing the emails. If the docket exhibit you are referencing is the one below then that is Microsoft's exhibit and not the "gamers" lawyers. You are making assumptions on Microsoft's behalf while wanting hard proof otherwise. You can't have it both ways.
NickFire
Member
This. 100%.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The cognitive dissonance, I swear.Well, the CMA and FTC are preventing this one. You should all support those blocks then, shouldn't you?
No, we don't.
The lawyers believe it was showing a foundation for their plans we see today. Their desires that they're acting out on.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Wrong. We don't know the dates of that email without seeing the emails. If the docket exhibit you are referencing is the one below then that is Microsoft's exhibit and not the "gamers" lawyers. You are making assumptions on Microsoft's behalf while wanting hard proof otherwise. You can't have it both ways.
Wait but you were so sure about who the culprit is before ...
Phil Spencer =/= Matt Booty. The article is specifically talking an email sent by Matt to Tim Stuart.
We're not .. we're not just changing goal posts now, are we ?
The lawyers believe or you want it to be believed that way ?
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Setsuna Mudou
Member
Exactly, besides, why JO a billion dollar corpo, when you can go balls on chin on a trillion dollar one?
Right...?
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drganon
Member
Christ, give it up already. You're being even more of a pathetic shill than usual.Wait but you were so sure about who the culprit is before ...
Phil Spencer =/= Matt Booty. The article is specifically talking an email sent by Matt to Tim Stuart.
We're not .. we're not just changing goal posts now, are we ?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The entire thesis of this thread is what the lawyers accuse MS of via email evidence that can be solved if MS just releases said email which they confirmed exists. WTF, why are you being a clown?
It hasn't even been 24 hours for you to display such revisionism.
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thismeinteil
Member
MS must be getting out the checkbook, again, cause those shills are coming in hard and fast to defend this.
"Companies don't plan things."
"Companies don't plan things."
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Topher
Identifies as young
Wait but you were so sure about who the culprit is before ...
Phil Spencer =/= Matt Booty. The article is specifically talking an email sent by Matt to Tim Stuart.
We're not .. we're not just changing goal posts now, are we ?
Nope. I wasn't the guy pounding the Bible about these emails being redacted. That was you. And now YOU are the guy saying we know stuff about the emails......because Microsoft says so. Factually, you moved the goal posts. Not me.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
I think that Xbox is getting a pretty rude awakening when it comes to this just looking at the Microsoft/Activision acquisition.
While they may have the money to do it, I think regulators will eventually stop them. I personally think they should have stopped before Bethesda. Not for regulation concern or anything...it's just that their approach is hands off, offering monetary support or technical support alone.
I just don't think that's going to help make better games. They are picking up studios on the brink of collapse. Giving them money and technical support doesn't necessarily address the root problem. I hope they start asking themselves why the devs faltered in the first place...in the same space where others succeed.
Sethbacca
Member
Wait? You don't just wake up one morning and spend tens of billions of dollars? I've been doing it wrong this entire time....MS must be getting out the checkbook, again, cause those shills are coming in hard and fast to defend this.
"Companies don't plan things."
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
When companies as big as MS don't get their way, they go scorched earth. Which is why you are supposed to have a working merger regulation sector. It can cripple industries and economies.
thismeinteil
Member
I guess that's what Xbox shills want us to believe, lol. They talk like this was from 2009. This was from 2019, which just so happens to be months before they started trying to buy up the market.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
You think this is likely with Activision Blizzard merger? From what I understand, this would be a very long drawn out battle that in the end would not be worth the trouble. Of course there can be other attempts at this, maybe smaller acquisitions.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yes, I am calling a redacted email redacted.
How ?
I have not changed my stance on the original email, only on the lawyers claim about it being related to the active acquisition going on, which the dates prove is not true.
You're focusing less on the content and context of the discussion and more on trying to do a gacha here.
As far as the general strategy of winning against a competitor, it's certainly not a unique concept.
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Sethbacca
Member
I mean, I'm no CEO, but the legal legwork and internal discussions alone on an acquisition of this size before it's even announced is probably a minimum of a year.
Calling 911 Melts Beams
Banned
if they really wanted to kill sony they would have merged with atari
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I meant it as to why they are purchasing up the industry. They failed, started blaming the opposition to their failures, no introspection, all hubris and hypocrisy, thus they buy everything up regardless of the ramifications that it will have in the race to the bottom.
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
For MS Its not the first time, you have to read the history of MS's strategie...its right out there try wikepedia...
Sethbacca
Member
A lot of us lived through it. It was called the 90s/00s.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
MS literally wrote the new age book on it which because of them, anti-trust laws and the like were formed.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
Can't believe I'm reading here that plans and communication to make a thing happen... occur before said thing actually happens
There are people either too stupid to realize what they are arguing or smart enough not to do it for free
There are people either too stupid to realize what they are arguing or smart enough not to do it for free
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Wild, isn't it?There are people either too stupid to realize what they are arguing or smart enough not to do it for free
Setsuna Mudou
Member
At some point you have to respect the hustle, some people need to make ends meet somehow.