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[xellos2099alpha]

I think i mentioned this before, back in march when the spike are beginning to happen and we got stay at home order. IF we completely isolate every single person in the country for 2-4 weeks, we could have potential kill of covid 19 within the usa. Given the nature of virus needing a host to survive, it will die down. People were telling it is impossible.... why is that? What if we give ample warning about it and made sure everyone have enough food and water for 3-4 weeks. Instead of a very short term pain, now we have potentially months or years of society and economical pain.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Because people are stupid.

 

[ant_]

Simultaneously isolating every household for 3-4 weeks?

What you are describing is impossible.

 

[Cato]

Because it wouldn't work. 3-4 weeks would not be enough. Maybe 6 months? but I still doubt it.

Why?
Unless you want to break up families, there will be heaps of families where one child gets it. Then after 2 weeks, a second child gets it, then two weeks later, the third child gets it, etc.
So once your 4 weeks are up there will still be heaps of active infections just by slowly spreading between family members.

Then additionally you have the freaks of nature. Sure, a normal cycle could be 3-4 weeks FOR MOST people, but not all.
There are examples of people where it has been >10 weeks between exposure and until it breaks out.
There are examples of people that have been ill with it for 10 weeks and more too.

It would not work. Viruses don't work that way.

 

[llien]

Thread from March 22nd:

My "simple" solution to the Covid-19 problem, which I thought was obvious, but nobody dares to voice

Situation Virus life risk: up to 10-20% dead in the absence of medical assistant, not counting people dying in riots/marauders/protests spreading: luckily, this shit cannot simply travel with wind for tens of kilometers and can be localized The Solution We are at war. Government assumes...

www.neogaf.com

Maybe 6 months?

6 weeks would be enough.

 

[Cato]

Thread from March 22nd:

My "simple" solution to the Covid-19 problem, which I thought was obvious, but nobody dares to voice

Situation Virus life risk: up to 10-20% dead in the absence of medical assistant, not counting people dying in riots/marauders/protests spreading: luckily, this shit cannot simply travel with wind for tens of kilometers and can be localized The Solution We are at war. Government assumes...

www.neogaf.com

6 weeks would be enough.

How? There are people where the duration between exposure and outbreak is >10 weeks.

 

[llien]

How? There are people where the duration between exposure and outbreak is >10 weeks.

That's too bold a claim. Much more likely, they caught it from "unknown" source later on.

 

[Cato]

That's too bold a claim. Much more likely, they caught it from "unknown" source later on.

Why? There are examples of people that have been actually infected, and keep testing as infected, for >10 straight weeks.
One person on this very board had a friend that that happened to.

The 2 week until symptoms and 2 weeks being sick is just the statistical mean. Nothing else. The bell curve goes very far in each direction for the freaks of nature.
Given enough samples, some people just have an extremely different/freakish cycle compared to the average.

 

[llien]

There are examples of people that have been actually infected, and keep testing as infected, for >10 straight weeks.

I need to see receipts.
No EU country could trace infections with this kind of certainty of when someone got infected.

A friend of mine living in Netherlands appeared to have had it way before it become trendy (early March). My work colleague's family had it back in Feb. Shit has been all over the place for a while.

 

[Weiji]

Thread from March 22nd:

My "simple" solution to the Covid-19 problem, which I thought was obvious, but nobody dares to voice

Situation Virus life risk: up to 10-20% dead in the absence of medical assistant, not counting people dying in riots/marauders/protests spreading: luckily, this shit cannot simply travel with wind for tens of kilometers and can be localized The Solution We are at war. Government assumes...

www.neogaf.com

6 weeks would be enough.

“Money and everything related to it is meaningless. You don't get paid for anything anymore. You don't pay for anything either. All transactions are frozen. Government takes care about distribution of resources.”

This is compete nonesense. Who exactly are you thinking is going to do the “distribution” if no one’s getting paid?

The situation your describing is basically This.

 

[llien]

Who exactly are you thinking is going to do the “distribution” if no one’s getting paid?

The government.

Aussies did soft version of it, freezing payments.

 

[Weiji]

The government.

Aussies did soft version of it, freezing payments.

“The government” isn’t a who.

 

[Mistake]

A big part of the issue is that each state doesn't do things the same, and we're at crossroads with the laws on how to do it properly. Another is that the travel bans didn't come soon enough because of the abundance of misinformation we got. All things considered, maybe we could have slowed it down, but I imagine we'd be in the same situation regardless.

 

[llien]

“The government” isn’t a who.

Then I'm missing the point of your question, I see no catch in governments having more power in the state of emergency, that's what they are supposed to do.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

You can't tell everybody to stay home, hospital workers have to go to work, police officers have to go to work, firefighters, paramedics, energy providers, etc.

 

[Belgorim]

Even if you kept everyone home starving and let people die at home without hospital care for a few weeks you would then have to stop trade and travel forever to not get another outbreak.

 

[Dontero]

Covid could be killed when it was in China. Once it spread to other nations it is literally impossible to get rid off.
Only viable method is so called herd immunity. Aka enough people get sick and covid can't move and dies off.

Those nations like mine Poland who closed off will sooner or later have again to fight with it while US will go for chaotic few months and they will never get it again due to her immunity.

This is one of the reasons why democracy doesn't work. Because instead of doing something right people who are in power have to take into account public opinion which can destroy government if cure tastes bad for them.

 

[Greedings]

Covid could be killed when it was in China. Once it spread to other nations it is literally impossible to get rid off.
Only viable method is so called herd immunity. Aka enough people get sick and covid can't move and dies off.

Those nations like mine Poland who closed off will sooner or later have again to fight with it while US will go for chaotic few months and they will never get it again due to her immunity.

This is one of the reasons why democracy doesn't work. Because instead of doing something right people who are in power have to take into account public opinion which can destroy government if cure tastes bad for them.

I want to just take on this point. This isn't democracy, it's the corrupt system of people becoming career politicians.

Democracy works if we have leaders who are elected, then stand up to public opinion when they know they're right. The problem is no one in politics has the balls to do what's correct, for the fear of bad publicity. It ends in half measures trying to appease both sides, then virtue signalling on things that don't really matter.

If I elect a leader, I expect them to be such. If they did a good job, they'll get re-elected independent on whether public opinion was against them for a brief moment.

 

[mickaus]

Australia is currently going through a sort of second wave due to incompetence at quarantining incoming travellers. I think the OP is on the right track but maybe there should just be transfer of all travellers to their wanted destination in like a 1 month period and then just close all borders to travellers for a few months. How many more people are travelling home or whatever?

 

[xellos2099alpha]

Even if you kept everyone home starving and let people die at home without hospital care for a few weeks you would then have to stop trade and travel forever to not get another outbreak.

A very small price to pay really consider what we are facing now.

 

[TindalosPup]

It's important to note that no illness or sickness is ever really completely eradicateded, it's foolish to think you can starve it out and the problem will never return. We still have cases of tuberculosis, the bubonic plague, small pox, measles, scarlet fever, and leprosy despite them disappearing on a larger scale. COVID-19 is going to hang out as long as it wants to, we have to learn to live with it, not hide from it thinking it will just go away

 

[xellos2099alpha]

Australia is currently going through a sort of second wave due to incompetence at quarantining incoming travellers. I think the OP is on the right track but maybe there should just be transfer of all travellers to their wanted destination in like a 1 month period and then just close all borders to travellers for a few months. How many more people are travelling home or whatever?

Maybe the solution is stop all form of travel for months? We should have completely isolate the people coming back from europe in march and all those peopel from cruise ship for a month

 

[xellos2099alpha]

It's important to note that no illness or sickness is ever really completely eradicateded, it's foolish to think you can starve it out and the problem will never return. We still have cases of tuberculosis, the bubonic plague, small pox, measles, scarlet fever, and leprosy despite them disappearing on a larger scale. COVID-19 is going to hang out as long as it wants to, we have to learn to live with it, not hide from it thinking it will just go away

But it will go away if there are no host for them to infect. Another huge issue with fighting with covid 19 is the extreme suckiness of contract tracing. People don;t even know where they got ti from unless they are the idiot who got it from bars and restaurants.

 

[Blade2.0]

Because the administration in charge didn't want to show that, if needed, the USA could actually take care of its citizens without forcing them to work for pennies on the dollar. Got to keep that overworked, underpaid train a rolling or else where will the elite get their billions from? Human lives be damned baby!

 

[TindalosPup]

But it will go away if there are no host for them to infect.

That's not true at all, it's a virus present in the bat population that mutated to infect humans, it will still be in the bats

 

[xellos2099alpha]

That's not true at all, it's a virus present in the bat population that mutated to infect humans, it will still be in the bats

Isn't that just a speculation? We don;t even know IF it got pass from bat to human, is there any evidence?. For all we know it could have been science experiment went wrong.

 

[TindalosPup]

Isn't that just a speculation? We don;t even know IF it got pass from bat to human.

The virus had to come from another biological being, regardless of what the initial host of it was, it doesn't matter if it was actually bats, we can't eradicate it from where it came from. That's why the black plague still exists.

 

[Dontero]

I want to just take on this point. This isn't democracy, it's the corrupt system of people becoming career politicians.

Democracy works if we have leaders who are elected, then stand up to public opinion when they know they're right. The problem is no one in politics has the balls to do what's correct, for the fear of bad publicity. It ends in half measures trying to appease both sides, then virtue signalling on things that don't really matter.

If I elect a leader, I expect them to be such. If they did a good job, they'll get re-elected independent on whether public opinion was against them for a brief moment.

It is not the problem of characters it is problem of system which does not allow for great people to lead nation because the better someone is the more opposition he will face from those who are in power in fear of replacing themselves.
For an example in monarchy you can't replace king which means king can hire best people without fear of them replacing him.

It took Athenian democracy 150 years to fail in complete disarray. It took about 300 years for polish lithuanian commonwealth to do the same thing. We are about 100 years in European project and US went from republic to democracy also in that time-frame.

There is nice quote: "Bad systems don't die because they are evil, insufferable or people hate it, they die because they go bankrupt."

Unfortunutelly like above quote says. To go back from this epoch we will have to wait and then once system will become bankrupt which will happen people themselves will be happy when some dictator or very small coalition will take over power and whole cycle will again begin. It could be again king but even republic will be better than democracy.

Democracy is positive feedback loop system which means it must fail. Because unlike republic or monarchy which are negative feedback loops people just pursuing their own happines will lead to downfall of such system. While in Republic/monarchy etc. those actions are removed from play.

 

[Cato]

The government.

Aussies did soft version of it, freezing payments.

What TF are you talking about?
I Live in Australia. We did nothing of the crazy shit you are advocating for in your bat-shit crazy proposal.

Look, what you propose is completely fucking alex jones kind of crazy.
You are just making shit up because you have no real argument, except bat-shit crazy idea?

 

[llien]

bat-shit craz

It would help if people would realize how economy works.

What TF are you talking about?

ECONOMIC HIBERNATION: Morrison government looks at 6-month mortgage repayments holiday, rent, utilities and small business relief

The Australian government is considering putting businesses into an economic ‘hibernation’ to ensure that they aren’t left with debts and are able to resume ‘business as usual’ as soon as the coronavirus crisis is over. Finance Minister Mathias Cormann told the ABC the government was looking for...

www.startupdaily.net

have no real argument

What about calming down so that your post do not read like histerical and coming up with a single coherent argument? (and no, saying something is crazy is not and, surprisingly, even if you repeat it multiple times)

 

[Cato]

Then I'm missing the point of your question, I see no catch in governments having more power in the state of emergency, that's what they are supposed to do.

I know you got your medical degree from reading antivaxxer fb posts for a few hours.

Do you understand that the "2 weeks of incubation" and then the "two weeks of being sick and transmitting the disease"
is just a fucking statistical average?y

Sometimes, some people get a bacteria or virus, but they never get sick. Rare freaks of nature.
They co-exist with the disease. The disease never make them sick, and their immune system never triggers.
They basically become carriers and infectuous for not two weeks but for their entire life.
They never get sick, they never get over the infection. They just co-exist with the virus. FOREVER.

That is how viruses work.

 

[llien]

I know you got your medical degree from reading antivaxxer fb posts for a few hours.

Look, kid, I don't have time for this, if you are not up for a civil debate, fuck off.

 

[Cato]

It would help if people would realize how economy works.

And that never fucking happened.
You read some shit in some kraut website and that is more valid than someone that actually lives here and says that is just retarded kraut national enquirer bullshit someone just made up?

I live here. I know what happened here. You are a recent Kraut immigrant and you know better what happened in Australia than I do ?
You are full of shit.

 

[Cato]

Look, kid, I don't have time for this, if you are not up for a civil debate, fuck off.

Just tell me, what the fucking bat-shit crazy stuff from your "ideas how to eliminate covid" did the australian govern,ment implement?
I live here, I have seriously no idea. what you propose is so crazy that not even Tasmania would even consider implementing it.


What did Australia do that was "your 'light' proposal". You are full of shit.

 

[bitbydeath]

Covid could be killed when it was in China. Once it spread to other nations it is literally impossible to get rid off.
Only viable method is so called herd immunity. Aka enough people get sick and covid can't move and dies off.

Those nations like mine Poland who closed off will sooner or later have again to fight with it while US will go for chaotic few months and they will never get it again due to her immunity.

This is one of the reasons why democracy doesn't work. Because instead of doing something right people who are in power have to take into account public opinion which can destroy government if cure tastes bad for them.

The whole world will have to do it though otherwise as soon as someone outside comes in it just spreads all over again.

 

[Dontero]

The whole world will have to do it though otherwise as soon as someone outside comes in it just spreads all over again.

The whole point of heard immunity is that once you are past it, it doesn't matter if rest of the world has it or not. There will be simply not enough people to properly spread it and whenever it will come again via someone from abroad he will get sick few people at best and whole thing will go away.

Moreover Covid is not longer 4-6% morality rate disease. When accounted people who spread disease and do not show symptoms actual mortality rate is just higher than actual seasonal flu.

95% of UK deaths caused by Covid had significant first health issue like cancer.

My Mother died due to cancer related problem. She succesfully fought of remision of cancer but her immune system was shot and she got pneumonia. In just one day she want from perfectly healthy to death next day. The cause of death was cancer not pneumonia, pneumonia was considered complication of cancer.

 

[xrnzaaas]

This is an impossible thing to do for many reasons. Pandemic hit different countries in different months and some leaders actually decided to ignore the problem or hide the actual scale of the epidemic, you can't ban all local and international logistics, people in many countries (especially America) won't sit politely in their homes for a month and there would be heavy rioting, tons of people have to go to work to keep the country running and they can't be isolated for a month from their families, even now many countries are incapable of performing large scale virus tests and they would be necessary considering the virus often doesn't show any symptoms and stays with some people longer than 2 weeks. There's also the political side of the issue - governments won't completely cannibalize the economy or "enslave" the citizens, because unless it's a totalitarian country they're going to get slaughtered in the next elections.

 

[bitbydeath]

The whole point of heard immunity is that once you are past it, it doesn't matter if rest of the world has it or not. There will be simply not enough people to properly spread it and whenever it will come again via someone from abroad he will get sick few people at best and whole thing will go away.

Moreover Covid is not longer 4-6% morality rate disease. When accounted people who spread disease and do not show symptoms actual mortality rate is just higher than actual seasonal flu.

95% of UK deaths caused by Covid had significant first health issue like cancer.

My Mother died due to cancer related problem. She succesfully fought of remision of cancer but her immune system was shot and she got pneumonia. In just one day she want from perfectly healthy to death next day. The cause of death was cancer not pneumonia, pneumonia was considered complication of cancer.

Problem is you never actually get past it. You just catch it again and re-spread it again since it doesn’t stay in your system.

 

[Dontero]

Problem is you never actually get past it. You just catch it again and re-spread it again since it doesn’t stay in your system.

That is false.

Covid is like any other virus, once your system beats it you have naturally anitbodies for it. The question is if covid will mutate enough to not be recognized by antibodies. But all viruses show that recurring diseases like seasonal flu get milder because spreading more is more important than killing host.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Probably impossible unless you have the army walking the streets.

Also, people are stupid. If we've learnt anything from this whole disaster, it's that people are really really stupid. Like flat-earther stupid. That joke about the dumb decisions people make in horror/disaster movies? ...yeah. Suddenly it's not so funny any more.

 

[JLMC469]

I believe the average person will start to get the vaccine @ Q2-2021.

and people are stupid and Florida sucks.

 

[thefool]

Things aren't miraculously automated. Energy/water supply alone don't magically work by pressing a button and let it stay on for 3 weeks.
You simply can't freeze the entire workforce too.
You literally asking for a 3 week apocalyptic plan.

 

[WhiskeyDiver]

One thing at the forefront is there would be open and widespread defiance to such a demand/request. People would feel their freedoms are being trampled on, because they are being told to stay in their house the majority of a lengthy period of time. Covid-19 propagates and continues to live on.

Another is being forced to isolate oneself at home for a month could lead to frustration and mental fatigue. A great deal of people have the innate desire to move around and be out of the house. Others have a lust to see the world even if that world only include their small town/large city.

It just wouldn't be effective. You would need a telepathic hive mind that transcends all emotional reaction and is driven by pure logic and complete agreement to every little thing brought up in the hive mind consciousness. Such a thing is science fiction for now at least, so it seems majorly improbable that everyone would ever agree to stay in their homes for 4 weeks willingly and not violate such an order.

 

[M1chl]

Probably impossible, if you have idiots thinking like this. Muh constitutional rights.


Well, it's not like idiots on the left are better, but with this mentality, Covid is here to stay in USA.

 

[JLMC469]

Probably impossible, if you have idiots thinking like this. Muh constitutional rights.


Well, it's not like idiots on the left are better, but with this mentality, Covid is here to stay in USA.

Agree.

Why is it so hard to put on a mask for couple of minutes? Why is the USA struggling when compared to most nations?

 

[bitbydeath]

That is false.

Covid is like any other virus, once your system beats it you have naturally anitbodies for it. The question is if covid will mutate enough to not be recognized by antibodies. But all viruses show that recurring diseases like seasonal flu get milder because spreading more is more important than killing host.

Unfortunately it is like any other Coronavirus where it spawns multiple strains (the common cold is part of the same family). You get over one and more strains appear through mutation. Is your body reacting better to colds over time or do they come in all shapes and sizes still?

There’s even been reports of a strain more contagious than the original.

Second coronavirus strain 'more contagious' and spreading faster, researchers find

A group of leading international researchers says coronavirus has already mutated into a second strain which appears to have spread faster and wider than the original one, potentially undermining efforts to create a vaccine.

www.abc.net.au

 

[M1chl]

Is it hard to put on a mask for couple of minutes? Why is the USA struggling when compared to most nations?

Because the idiocy and proud of being stupid is one of the trademarks of USA. There are some dumbass idiots all over Europe, but wears as a badge of honor. Wonder how would those people feel, if doctors were acting like this and during surgery you would get some bakteria, which would then turn your inside into liquid shit.

Funny thing is, that if they wear mask and don't stupid pre-Bolshevik protest, they would be probably out of it by this time already. Like normal nations, which have at least IQ around 50.

 

[Dontero]

Unfortunately it is like any other Coronavirus where it spawns multiple strains (the common cold is part of the same family). You get over one and more strains appear through mutation. Is your body reacting better to colds over time or do they come in all shapes and sizes still?

The artile you mentioned is not the same thing. Yes it is strain but this strain but antibodies kill all of those strains and going through covid once will keep you protected from all of those strains.

What i am talking about is serious mutation where antibodies stop working which is how seasonal flu works. Moreover like i said if this thing will be seasonal then it will go mild and will not stay at the same lethality level.

 

[Super Mario]

Because no amounts of going one way at a grocery store, plexiglass, and bandanas over your face stop a VIRUS.

 

[bitbydeath]

The artile you mentioned is not the same thing. Yes it is strain but this strain but antibodies kill all of those strains and going through covid once will keep you protected from all of those strains.

What i am talking about is serious mutation where antibodies stop working which is how seasonal flu works. Moreover like i said if this thing will be seasonal then it will go mild and will not stay at the same lethality level.

While there’s still much we don’t understand about immunity to this new illness, a small but growing number of cases like his suggest the answer is yes.

Covid-19 may also be much worse the second time around. During his first infection, my patient experienced a mild cough and sore throat. His second infection, in contrast, was marked by a high fever, shortness of breath, and hypoxia, resulting in multiple trips to the hospital.

“My patient caught Covid-19 twice. So long to herd immunity hopes?”

Emerging cases of Covid-19 reinfection suggest herd immunity could be wishful thinking.

www.vox.com