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[Grimmy]

Ip Man and Fearless fit the bill

:lol
Those are HONG KONG films. Made by HK directors and produced by HK companies. And they're not even about WWII!

Now, name me a mainland Chinese film?

 

[TheKaeptain]

It's totally not the Rocky movie the trailers paint it to be (except the disappointing end).

Yeah man he should have...wait you want them to change real life?

 

[nemesun]

Yeah man he should have...wait you want them to change real life?

:lol

 

[numble]

Oh wonderful another Mando-historical epic film! I can't wait till China grows up and starts making the type of movies that made Hong Kong Cinema as awesome as it is, with modern urban settings. They have such great potential.

There are some nice modern Chinese movies, but they are usually indie and with low budgets. The big budget ones are historical though.

Here are some:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Bicycle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_shaft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tian_xia_wu_zei (not really indie)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Masks

I also like films about the Cultural Revolution, though I wouldn't consider them modern (but they are not epic).

 

[Battersea Power Station]

OMG TROLLZ

You notice how you rile people up? In 99% of cases, that's the result of trolling. So the probabilities are not in your favor.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Have you seen Ning Hao's CRAZY RACER?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbXPqGC65Cw

Things like that are a start, but the subject matter is still heavily restricted and sanitized. I hate what copro rules have done to Hong Kong Cinema with three notable exception of Dennis Law copro rules the day, along with its restrictions.

:lol
Those are HONG KONG films. Made by HK directors and produced by HK companies. And they're not even about WWII!

Now, name me a mainland Chinese film?

Heavily financed by Mainland money and done under restrictive co-production rules. They're joint films really.

 

[Expendable.]

Yeah man he should have...wait you want them to change real life?

It's a movie, not a documentary. Why the hell would I care about real life? Look what The Social Network did, and it turned out fantastic.

The way the end was handled didn't fit the first 2/3rds O. Russell was going for.

 

[harSon]

:lol
Those are HONG KONG films. Made by HK directors and produced by HK companies. And they're not even about WWII!

Now, name me a mainland Chinese film?

The only other film I can think of is On the Mountain of Tai Hang, but I guess that doesn't count since it's also about the Second Sino-Japanese War (not exactly sure how that's the case considering the time period over which the war took place...)

 

[TheKaeptain]

It's a movie, not a documentary. Why the hell would I care about real life? Look what The Social Network did, and it turned out fantastic.

The way the end was handled didn't fit the first 2/3rds O. Russell was going for.

How do you know what he was going for?

 

[Grimmy]

Things like that are a start, but the subject matter is still heavily restricted and sanitized. I hate what copro rules have done to Hong Kong Cinema with three notable exception of Dennis Law copro rules the day, along with its restrictions.


Heavily financed by Mainland money and done under restrictive co-production rules. There joint films really.

I definitely don't disagree about the censorship problems, but directors like Ning Hao have managed to make creative, exhilarating films even under all these pressures. I just wish that the SARFT would lay off his next film, NO MAN'S LAND, which has been stalling in approval for over a year.

As for FEARLESS and IP MAN, they are symptomatic of HK directors and companies desperately trying to please the mainland Chinese market, while many Chinese directors like Jiang Wen and Lu Chuan actually have a way more progressive view than they do.

Oh and:

Heavily financed by Mainland money and done under restrictive co-production rules. They're joint films really.

Yes, but the creatives are all HKers

 

[numble]

The only other film I can think of is On the Mountain of Tai Hang, but I guess that doesn't count since it's also about the Second Sino-Japanese War (not exactly sure how that's the case considering the time period over which the war took place...)

Second Sino-Japanese War = 1937-1939 + WWII.

 

[nemesun]

He's good at playing certain kinds of characters, which basically boils down to yuppies and down-and-out characters, but he's by no means a complete method actor. He does have a few dozen films, the overwhelming majority of which aren't home to a performance that's worth writing home about. Most actors have a handful of films in which one could name drop and tell someone to "go away", if Nicolas Cage were cast instead of Bale, I could just as easily tell you to watch Adaptation, Lord of War or Bad Lieutenant. Doesn't mean he's a particularly good fit for this role.

He's good at playing certain kind of character? please, his roles have been diverse throughout his career. He's no Bruce Willis or Nic effin Cage.

Empire of the Sun
American Psycho
Equilibrium
The Machinist
Rescue Dawn
The Prestige
3:10 to Yuma
The Fighter

People love to hate on Bale. He's a decent actor who has a lot of passion and dedication for what he does. His performance in The Machinist is hunting, and his performance in The Fighter is absolutely breathtaking.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

I hope Zhang Yimou doesn't sanitize anything since it seems like he's been willing to do that from time to time. There should be no compromise when you tell a story like this.

 

[harSon]

He's good at playing certain kind of character? please, his roles have been diverse throughout his career. He's no Bruce Willis or Nic effin Cage.

Empire of the Sun
American Psycho
Equilibrium
The Machinist
Rescue Dawn
The Prestige
3:10 to Yuma
The Fighter

People love to hate on Bale. He's a decent actor who has a lot of passion and dedication for what he does. His performance in The Machinist is hunting, and his performance in The Fighter is absolutely breathtaking.

I never said he wasn't a decent actor, simply that he's not what I'd consider an A-List actor, ie. capable of overshadowing all performances in nearly every movie he's in regardless of the role in question. Decent actor is definitely an apt description to be honest.

 

[nemesun]

It's a movie, not a documentary. Why the hell would I care about real life? Look what The Social Network did, and it turned out fantastic.

The way the end was handled didn't fit the first 2/3rds O. Russell was going for.

Holy almighty. The movie was based on true story, did you expect Russell to

Spoiler

kill off Dick through crack addiction?

As someone who has followed boxing for 20 years I wouldn't have looked kindly on that sort of revision. And Social Network is not half as good as its hyped up to be.

 

[Expendable.]

Holy almighty. The movie was based on true story, did you expect Russell to

Spoiler

kill off Dick through crack addiction?

As someone who has followed boxing for 20 years I wouldn't have looked kindly on that sort of revision. And Social Network is not half as good as its hyped up to be.

Russell had a choice to end it the exact way he did. I'm not saying change the entire thing, but it didn't have to be as 100% rousing and happy as it was.

 

[SRG01]

I actually find this surprising. The anti-Japanese rhetoric I hear from the average Chinese netizen is truly frightening. Sometimes I can't tell if it's Communist Party plants trying to whip up the masses and extole how the "heavenly kingdom" is much better than the imperialist dogs, or if people are just truly that angry and vengeful.

Then again, the average youtube comment is just as frightening, filled with hatred, racism, and wishes of death as anything I've heard a chinese netizen say, so maybe things aren't really that bad.

Well, considering that the Japanese pretty much inflicted their own version of the Holocaust in Asia...

 

[nemesun]

Russell had a choice to end it the exact way he did. I'm not saying change the entire thing, but it didn't have to be as 100% rousing and happy as it was.

What can I say... It could've had a much happier ending if Russell wanted to include Ward vs Gatti trilogy. He can't change life to cater to critics need for grittier ending.

 

[Blader]

Only thing disappointing about The Fighter's ending was that

Spoiler

they didn't get into the Gotti fights.

 

[nemesun]

Only thing disappointing about The Fighter's ending was that

Spoiler

they didn't get into the Gotti fights.

I concur. But I don't think contemporary audience could stomach a three and a half hour movie anymore.

 

[Dan]

Hmm, not sure I have much interest for more, or any really, historical films out of China. :/

Well, considering that the Japanese pretty much inflicted their own version of the Holocaust in Asia...

But is it right to hold that against modern Japan? It certainly doesn't make sense to hate modern Germany for the Nazis. It just seems silly the way a couple Asian countries seem pretty insistent on holding on to really old grudges.

 

[DMczaf]

Baleback continues.

New Bale Order.

 

[Grimmy]

Hmm, not sure I have much interest for more, or any really, historical films out of China. :/


But is it right to hold that against modern Japan? It certainly doesn't make sense to hate modern Germany for the Nazis. It just seems silly the way a couple Asian countries seem pretty insistent on holding on to really old grudges.

The continued grudge is certainly not deserved....except that in Japan you still have the right-wingers who deny WWII atrocities and think that comfort women and Nanjing massacre are inventions by the Koreans and Chinese. So it goes both ways.

And I still think you really should check out DEVILS ON THE DOORSTEP - the Cannes Grand Prix winner in 2000 - before you write off historical films from China. Excellent, excellent film.

 

[krypt0nian]

Bring me MOAR BALE!








<fap>

 

[Deku]

Nanjing is comparable to a Stalingrad type atrocity so I'm not particularly worried if the film paints one side poorly, because you know someone was doing the killing.

I do feel this film is disingenous in its purpose. Zhang Yimou pretty much bending over backwards to please his Chinese overlord since making amends with 'Hero' (a movie that legitimized authoritharian rule and paint Qin as a benevolent emperor) and this pretty much continues his apologizing for Chinese status quo.

As someone noted, it serves the dual political purpose of distracting the masses from the party by painting Japan as the bogeyman, and it stirs up nationalist pride, a topic that Yimou has pretty much been attached to doing since doing Hero.

It would have more credibility as an international, or at least a HK production that is not beholden to some communist party apparatchik who may decide to google himself and go on launching cyberattacks.

 

[shintoki]

Bring me MOAR BALE!








<fap>

Comrade! ^_^

 

[Dan]

The continued grudge is certainly not deserved....except that in Japan you still have the right-wingers who deny WWII atrocities and think that comfort women and Nanjing massacre are inventions by the Koreans and Chinese. So it goes both ways.

Yeah, I definitely didn't mean to paint it as a one way street. It's a problem throughout several of the major Asian nations.

And I still think you really should check out DEVILS ON THE DOORSTEP - the Cannes Grand Prix winner in 2000 - before you write off historical films from China. Excellent, excellent film.

I'll look that one up. It's not that they can't be good, they've just become tiresome through quantity and repetition.

 

[genjiZERO]

What do you make of The Story of Qiu Ju and To Live?

I never thought of Qiu Ju as being a propaganda piece, but To Live seems to be one. That being said i love To Live as a film. As i said in my other post I've always thought that Hero and The Emperor and the Assassin were parallel pieces. Similarly, I think Farewell My Concubine and To Live are parallel pieces - both are vignettes describing the end of Qing to just post Cultural Revolution.

 

[subversus]

that's a very sad theme and I know what role this priest has played during the events.

Won't watch this.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Russell had a choice to end it the exact way he did. I'm not saying change the entire thing, but it didn't have to be as 100% rousing and happy as it was.

How could they have ended it? Massive Pact suicide after he won the belt? To me it sounds like you went into the movie not knowing the history behind the characters.

 

[Expendable.]

How could they have ended it? Massive Pact suicide after he won the belt? To me it sounds like you went into the movie not knowing the history behind the characters.

Of course. Is it necessary to be a boxing fan and know everything about the characters going into a film? I don't think so.

I thought O. Russell did an excellent job the

Spoiler

first 2/3rds building up their deep family issues, and then the 180 degree turn at the end didn't feel 100% earned.

I didn't hate the ending, just was underwhelmed.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

I never thought of Qiu Ju as being a propaganda piece, but To Live seems to be one. That being said i love To Live as a film. As i said in my other post I've always thought that Hero and The Emperor and the Assassin were parallel pieces. Similarly, I think Farewell My Concubine and To Live are parallel pieces - both are vignettes describing the end of Qing to just post Cultural Revolution.

FYI, To Live was not at all a propaganda piece.

Unless you're talking about it the other way around because the CCP balked at the movie

 

[Peru]

Nanjing is comparable to a Stalingrad type atrocity so I'm not particularly worried if the film paints one side poorly, because you know someone was doing the killing.

I do feel this film is disingenous in its purpose. Zhang Yimou pretty much bending over backwards to please his Chinese overlord since making amends with 'Hero' (a movie that legitimized authoritharian rule and paint Qin as a benevolent emperor) and this pretty much continues his apologizing for Chinese status quo.

As someone noted, it serves the dual political purpose of distracting the masses from the party by painting Japan as the bogeyman, and it stirs up nationalist pride, a topic that Yimou has pretty much been attached to doing since doing Hero.

I think the political readings of Hero have been taken a few steps too far. It's about big emotions and the meaning of life, love, death, and I do believe Zhang when he says that it's not meant as a political movie in any way. When a director has been said to lean in every direction throughout his career, maybe people should accept that it's the art and not the statements he's after.

 

[Grimmy]

I'll look that one up. It's not that they can't be good, they've just become tiresome through quantity and repetition.

But how many WW2 films have there been from China? Not a lot (although admittedly this will be changing soon, as a bunch of really awful-looking WW2 films are going to come out next year) And to be truthful some of them are actually quite good:

Devils on the Doorstop (Jiang Wen)
Assembly (Feng Xiaogang)
City of Life and Death (Lu Chuan)

Let's forget about films like On the Mountain of Taihang.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

I think the political readings of Hero have been taken a few steps too far. It's about big emotions and the meaning of life, love, death, and I do believe Zhang when he says that it's not meant as a political movie in any way. When a director has been said to lean in every direction throughout his career, maybe people should accept that it's the art and not the statements he's after.

I think to portray it as a wholesale confirmation of the CCP is of course silly. But the historical context of the subject matter portrayed in the film is as political as it gets in China short of addressing the CCP directly, and there is absolutely no doubt where the film's political sympathies lie. If Zhang Yimou thinks he could just say that his movie "isn't political" and call it a day, he's delusional.

 

[genjiZERO]

FYI, To Live was not at all a propaganda piece.

Unless you're talking about it the other way around because the CCP balked at the movie

I'm not sure I agree with you entirely. Perhaps, if you use the term "propaganda" strictly but if the meaning is loosened I think it's OK. The film is largely about government, and the film tries to "convince" you of a particular point of view - whatever that may be. So it's not strong propaganda like "Uncle Sam", but I don't think propaganda always has to be like that. On the other hand Hero is fairly strong propaganda which i don't think we disagree on. And anyway, it's only a semantic difference I don't think it really matters at all.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I, too, am very tired of Bale. Especially after The Dark Knight's laughable performance.

 

[TheKaeptain]

I, too, am very tired of Bale. Especially after The Dark Knight's laughable performance.

Watch The FIGHTER!!!!

 

[Solo]

Empire of the Sun
American Psycho
Equilibrium
The Machinist
Rescue Dawn
The Prestige
3:10 to Yuma
The Fighter

His best performance, when he was a kid and before he was a lispy douchebag.
Playing himself.
Awful.
Good.
Good.
Jackman was better.
Crowe was better.
Haven't seen.

 

[G-Fex]

Go away, Bale

This this this.

You and I are on the same wavelength Solo.

 

[Zeliard]

His best performance, when he was a kid and before he was a lispy douchebag.
Playing himself.
Awful.
Good.
Good.
Jackman was better.
Crowe was better.
Haven't seen.

He was "playing himself" in American Psycho, or am I reading that wrong? :lol

 

[Solo]

He was "playing himself" in American Psycho, or am I reading that wrong? :lol

Douchebag
Batshit insane
Violent

Am I describing Christian Bale or Patrick Bateman?

 

[Deku]

His best performance, when he was a kid and before he was a lispy douchebag.
Playing himself.
Awful.
Good.
Good.
Jackman was better.
Crowe was better.
Haven't seen.

Sounds like you don't like him personally. A lot of people have the same reaction to douchy actors.

As for American Psycho, how does 'playing himself' quality as a poor performance. Assuming we agree that this is the case, it was well suited. The whole first 3 acts of the movie feels like a retread 80s style upliftingmovies with a kink. So his overacting, and hyper personality seemed an apt immitation or parody of a murderous Michael J. Fox. Then we find out he may have

Spoiler

imagined the whole thing in his mind or quite possibly, everything isn't what it seems

so the over acting makes perfect sense.

With regards the the bottom of your list, another actor being subjectively better is grounds for saying he can't act?

I'm not a huge Bale fan, but the other posters seem right to muse that it's a personal issue.

 

[Mifune]

I think the political readings of Hero have been taken a few steps too far. It's about big emotions and the meaning of life, love, death, and I do believe Zhang when he says that it's not meant as a political movie in any way. When a director has been said to lean in every direction throughout his career, maybe people should accept that it's the art and not the statements he's after.

I found Hero to be politically troubling but I never felt like Yimou was making a political statement. Of course, people will take it that way but I always thought that ending was meant as more of an artistic statement. The whole movie was this larger-than-life fairy tale and with his ending Yimou effectively changed history.

I've failed to find any meaningful political statements in the movies he has made since Hero so I think people bemoaning ANOTHER propaganda piece are off the mark.

 

[Zeliard]

Douchebag
Batshit insane
Violent

Am I describing Christian Bale or Patrick Bateman?

:lol

That's harsh mayne.

I don't care for his personal life, or any actor's. The only thing that's bothered me about Bale acting-wise the past few years has been his Batman (his Bruce Wayne is smooth). Outside of fitting nicely in the Batsuit, he doesn't bring much to the role and even detracts a bit from it. His performances in 3:10 to Yuma and The Prestige also left me a bit cold, though his actual characters there played a part in that.

Outside of that he's been a lot of fun. Great performances in The Machinist and Rescue Dawn and I thought he was very enjoyable as nutty and over-the-top as he was in Harsh Times.

Haven't seen The Fighter yet but Bale's being heavily tapped as winning the Oscar outright, and there seems to be general acknowledgment that it's a fine performance and his best yet.

 

[theignoramus]

Is the role of the priest based on historical fact? I sure hope it is.

 

[Solo]

Sounds like you don't like him personally. A lot of people have the same reaction to douchy actors.

As for American Psycho, how does 'playing himself' quality as a poor performance. Assuming we agree that this is the case, it was well suited. The whole first 3 acts of the movie feels like a retread 80s style upliftingmovies with a kink. So his overacting, and hyper personality seemed an apt immitation of a murderous Michael J. Fox parody. Then we find out he may have

Spoiler

imagined the whole thing in his mind or quite possibly, everything isn't what it seems

so the over acting makes perfect sense.

With regards the the bottom of your list, another actor being subjectively better is grounds for saying he can't act?

I'm not a huge Bale fan, but the other posters seem right to muse that it's a personal issue.

As a person? Hell no I don't like him. Grade A shithead. But big deal - Mel Gibson is an alcoholic bigot anti-semetic loon and Tom Cruise is crazy, and I can separate both men from the movies they make, and enjoy both of their work. I just don't think Christian Bale has any range. He is good at what he does, but thats almost entirely limited to brooding characters seething with rage. And in the past bunch of years had has started to go way over the top in a lot of his performances, and Im not big on scenery chewing.

 

[Zeliard]

As a person? Hell no I don't like him. Grade A shithead. But big deal - Mel Gibson is an alcoholic bigot anti-semitic loon and Tom Cruise is crazy, and I can separate both men from the movies they make, and enjoy both of their work. I just don't think Christian Bale has any range. He is good at what he does, but thats almost entirely limited to brooding characters seething with rage. And in the past bunch of years had has started to go way over the top in a lot of his performances, and Im not big on scenery chewing.

How many times has Bale been in a role where he's had to show much more, though? He generally plays characters that demand that sort of "brooding" mentality he brings to them. It's rare that he ever plays anyone who's, say, happy. He's picking those roles, absolutely, but I'm not ready to write his range off yet when we haven't seen him play a character that truly demanded something different to what he usually brings (when it is something different, it's a plain role with no meat like Purvis in Public Enemies).

There are so many roles the guy can realistically play, certainly. You'll probably never see Christian Bale play a lead in, say, a romantic comedy. But I also think he has more range than he's been able to show so far. The Fighter probably demonstrates this to some extent.

I think we may find that Bale is a lot like Pitt in that their niche is in interesting supporting roles rather than leading, but that remains to be seen. The one thing I will say about Bale as a negative is I don't think he's one of those actors who can rise above the script - if his character isn't written decently then chances are Bale won't do much with it.

 

[Solo]

Brad Pitt has a metric fuckton of range though, in both supporting and lead roles.

Look at his roles in 12 Monkeys, Fight Club, Burn After Reading, Inglourious Basterds, Ocean's Eleven and Jesse James. He hits about every kind of role in the acting spectrum there, and does them all so well.

 

[Zeliard]

Brad Pitt has a metric fuckton of range though, in both supporting and lead roles.

Look at his roles in 12 Monkeys, Fight Club, Burn After Reading, Inglourious Basterds, Ocean's Eleven and Jesse James. He hits about every kind of role in the acting spectrum there, and does them all so well.

Yeah but those are mostly supporting.

Generally when it comes to lead, when the spotlight's on him, he doesn't tend to bring a lot to it. Se7en is one example, where I thought Pitt was just poor and unconvincing. Mr & Mrs. Smith is another, The Mexican, Troy, Meet Joe Black, etc. But in true supporting roles he's almost always interesting and entertaining. (Caveat: I still haven't seen Benjamin Button.)

I like Brad Pitt a lot as an actor, and definitely more than Bale. Really can't wait to see him in Malick's new film. That's one role where I can see him putting in a beautiful lead performance.