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baseball off-season thread
- Thread starter Joe
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Miguel said:
Yeah. *sigh*
Let Beltran Wars II begin. I see the Cubs/Tigers/Mets/Yankees/Red Sox joining in now.
Are you retarded?
... The Tigers are out. The Yankees don't care. And the Red Sox haven't expressed any interest. It's the same contract negotiations as before, dummy.
Ninja Scooter
Member
the RedSox aren't gonna go after Beltran unless they can trade Manny, so thats unlikely.
Beltran is gonna be so overpaid though. This guy is NOT as good as the contract numbers being thrown at him. If he gets $120+ million like he probably will, the Angels will have gotten a fuckin STEAL with what they paid for Vlad last year. Vlad>>>Beltran
Beltran is gonna be so overpaid though. This guy is NOT as good as the contract numbers being thrown at him. If he gets $120+ million like he probably will, the Angels will have gotten a fuckin STEAL with what they paid for Vlad last year. Vlad>>>Beltran
Borass is trying to get the Yankees to bite, and they aren't.
Someone OTHER than the Mets has to be in this for Boras to not have made a deal by now. Either with Houston or NY.
Boras has been trying to get the Yanks on the phone all week. They wouldn't make any offer or even talk to him. This is likely a ploy to try to get the Yankees to talk.
Someone OTHER than the Mets has to be in this for Boras to not have made a deal by now. Either with Houston or NY.
Boras has been trying to get the Yanks on the phone all week. They wouldn't make any offer or even talk to him. This is likely a ploy to try to get the Yankees to talk.
metsallica
Member
The Yankees don't care = The Death Star clearing the planet.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Fifty said:Did you hear the news? Beltran hasn't signed with the Astros!
Dont worry,Ill still own you in mvp 2005 even without any good players on the astros....who needs Beltran,Clemens,Kent,Miller,or the injured Berkman.
*weeps*
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio/Chris Burke
Adam Everett
Morgan Ensberg/Mike Lamb
Jason Lane
Orlando Palmeiro
Willie Taveras
Brad Ausmus
Roy Oswalt
Andy Pettitte
Brandon Backe
Carlos Hernandez
Kevin Duckworth/Tim Redding <---GOD SHOOT ME NOW
Closer: Brad Lidge <---Can we clone him 3-4 times and use them as setup guys?
Craig Biggio/Chris Burke
Adam Everett
Morgan Ensberg/Mike Lamb
Jason Lane
Orlando Palmeiro
Willie Taveras
Brad Ausmus
Roy Oswalt
Andy Pettitte
Brandon Backe
Carlos Hernandez
Kevin Duckworth/Tim Redding <---GOD SHOOT ME NOW
Closer: Brad Lidge <---Can we clone him 3-4 times and use them as setup guys?
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Astros were fucking used it's as simple as that....I cant believe the Stros placed all their damn chips on signing Beltran when they knew who his friggin agent was.Ive never seen a team go from 1 game out of being in the World Series to totally pathetic cause of one player and agent holding all the cards.
Boras owned one Texas team before,guess he felt he needed to do it again....isnt Boras a NY based agent too? :lol
Boras owned one Texas team before,guess he felt he needed to do it again....isnt Boras a NY based agent too? :lol
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
From NY newsday.....
"The Mets and Beltran were said to be "only four or five million dollars part'' in discussions that could put Beltran in a Met uniform for seven years. It is believed the Mets deal could be worth between $115 million and $119 million"
Greedy bitch :lol Mig,that Richard Justice article was right on the money.
"The Mets and Beltran were said to be "only four or five million dollars part'' in discussions that could put Beltran in a Met uniform for seven years. It is believed the Mets deal could be worth between $115 million and $119 million"
Greedy bitch :lol Mig,that Richard Justice article was right on the money.
Houston, TX -- The Houston Astros failed to beat a midnight (et) deadline on Saturday to re-sign star centerfielder Carlos Beltran, and now he's reportedly finalizing a contract with the New York Mets.
Free agents who declined salary arbitration offers from their teams had until the completion of January 8 to re-sign with their clubs or the team would lose negotiating rights until May 1.
The Houston Chronicle reports the offer to Beltran from the Astros was believed to be worth over $105 million for seven seasons. It would have been the largest contract in team history, but in the end the newspaper reported Beltran chose to sign with the Mets.
Newsday reported the Mets and Beltran were only between $4 million and $5 million apart in negotiations. The Mets' offer was reportedly $112 million, and the Yankees apparently pulled out of the sweepstakes to sign the 27-year-old Beltran, who hit .267, belted 38 home runs with 104 RBI and stole 42 bases in 2004 for Houston and Kansas City.
The Chicago Cubs were reportedly a player in negotiations to sign Beltran, but apparently didn't get that far because they fell short on money and years.
The Mets were so serious about luring free agent Pedro Martinez to the team that general manager Omar Minaya headed to the Dominican Republic to negotiate with the three-time Cy Young Award winner. Martinez trusted Minaya was trying to build a winner and signed with the Mets for four years at $53 million.
Minaya then led a Mets contingent that flew to San Juan, Puerto Rico on January 3 to meet with Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras. Principal owner Fred Wilpon, senior VP of baseball operations Jim Duquette and special assistant Tony Bernazard were also in the distinguished group. The Mets had reportedly negotiated hard in the last week to ink Beltran, considered the crown jewel of the free agent market.
Beltran raised his game in the 2004 playoffs, hitting .435 with eight homers and 14 RBI over 12 games. He helped lead the Astros to their first-ever playoff series win with a victory over Atlanta in the Division Series. Beltran's eight homers tied a single postseason record, equaling the mark by Barry Bonds in 2002. Houston ended the season one win shy of the World Series, losing to St. Louis in seven games in the NLCS.
Copyright 2004 Courtesy of SportsNetwork.
Free agents who declined salary arbitration offers from their teams had until the completion of January 8 to re-sign with their clubs or the team would lose negotiating rights until May 1.
The Houston Chronicle reports the offer to Beltran from the Astros was believed to be worth over $105 million for seven seasons. It would have been the largest contract in team history, but in the end the newspaper reported Beltran chose to sign with the Mets.
Newsday reported the Mets and Beltran were only between $4 million and $5 million apart in negotiations. The Mets' offer was reportedly $112 million, and the Yankees apparently pulled out of the sweepstakes to sign the 27-year-old Beltran, who hit .267, belted 38 home runs with 104 RBI and stole 42 bases in 2004 for Houston and Kansas City.
The Chicago Cubs were reportedly a player in negotiations to sign Beltran, but apparently didn't get that far because they fell short on money and years.
The Mets were so serious about luring free agent Pedro Martinez to the team that general manager Omar Minaya headed to the Dominican Republic to negotiate with the three-time Cy Young Award winner. Martinez trusted Minaya was trying to build a winner and signed with the Mets for four years at $53 million.
Minaya then led a Mets contingent that flew to San Juan, Puerto Rico on January 3 to meet with Beltran and his agent, Scott Boras. Principal owner Fred Wilpon, senior VP of baseball operations Jim Duquette and special assistant Tony Bernazard were also in the distinguished group. The Mets had reportedly negotiated hard in the last week to ink Beltran, considered the crown jewel of the free agent market.
Beltran raised his game in the 2004 playoffs, hitting .435 with eight homers and 14 RBI over 12 games. He helped lead the Astros to their first-ever playoff series win with a victory over Atlanta in the Division Series. Beltran's eight homers tied a single postseason record, equaling the mark by Barry Bonds in 2002. Houston ended the season one win shy of the World Series, losing to St. Louis in seven games in the NLCS.
Copyright 2004 Courtesy of SportsNetwork.
considering taxes, the contracts were almost identical.
he went for new york because he wanted the lights on him. lets see how he handles a big time contract under all those lights. especially since it will be his team once piazza leaves.
i think the mets will be pretty good actually.
glavine, pedro, benson, zambrano is pretty good. if wright can continue at 3b, and they sign a half decent 1b they could have a great infield.
he went for new york because he wanted the lights on him. lets see how he handles a big time contract under all those lights. especially since it will be his team once piazza leaves.
i think the mets will be pretty good actually.
glavine, pedro, benson, zambrano is pretty good. if wright can continue at 3b, and they sign a half decent 1b they could have a great infield.
After Taxes, the contracts are identical. BUT...Boras' share comes out to more with 10 mil more on the deal. Cost of living, state tax, all these things make 119 mil in NY about 70 mil in Houston. Whatever, I'll still go every month and watch Oswalt pitch a gem, only to lose 2-1 when one of our lackluster relievers comes and blows a lead. and our Offense can't get anything going.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lolKuroyume said:
he's right.
Beltran didn't magically rejuvenate the Astros when he came in. We were still at .500 for weeks.
I don't even know what the Mets lineup is...but Beltran fit in very well with our lineup.
Biggio
Beltran
Bagwell
Berkman
Kent
Do the mets have anything close to that? not to mention a worse bullpen and worse pitching.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Whats truly funny is..wtf do the Mets,Yankees or Cubs for that matter have to pay him that much now that the Astros are out of the running....they can easily fuck over Boras and Beltran now that the deadline is over.
Unless its 100% for certain that a deal was struck with the Mets before the deadline and it will be announced soon.
Unless its 100% for certain that a deal was struck with the Mets before the deadline and it will be announced soon.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Yep I was thinking the samething Mig :lol
Btw Jim rocks...
HOUSTON -- There will be a few misguided individuals who, needing someone to blame for Carlos Beltran's departure, will direct their recriminations at Houston general manager Tim Purpura.
To those who would pillory Purpura because Beltran held the Houston Astros hostage to the 11th hour Saturday night before doing what he obviously intended to do all along -- go for the green -- we say why stop there?
Why not blame Purpura for the price of gas or the weather? That would make about as much sense as blaming him for Beltran bolting.
The fact is the Astros gave Beltran $100 million reasons to return. All of the talk about wanting to play for a winner and liking Houston and playing in warm weather were clearly nothing more than calculated posturing designed to get more money. At least Randy Johnson, after the Astros traded for him during the playoff drove of '98, made it clear to the organization he would not re-sign with them when the season was over.
Agent Scott Boras could have informed the Astros weeks ago that they had no shot at bringing his client back. But that's not Boras' job. His job is to get his clients top dollar, and Beltran will now get that from some other club.
Complete coverage >
Purpura and the Astros had little choice but to take Boras and Beltran at their word, putting everything else on hold. The Astros didn't want to pursue other free agent outfielders and perhaps send the wrong message to Beltran as well as take up money that could be used to sweeten the offer to the budding superstar. Meanwhile, Boras used Houston as a foil to try and start a bidding war between the two New York teams.
"We went as far as we could to get it done, but in the end we ran out of time," Purpura said. "Despite all of our best efforts, we weren't able to get it done and it's certainly very disappointing."
The Astros first offered $70 million, then $75 million, then $84 million and finally $100 million over seven years with a chance to make it $112 million over eight years if the 2012 option was granted. The final offer was more money than Houston has ever offered any player, and that includes Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Johnson or Roger Clemens. And it wasn't enough.
That's as much money as Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols received on his extension last year and more than Angels outfielder Vladimir Guerrero got last year, two players whose statistics clearly surpass Beltran's, and Pujols is three years younger. And it wasn't enough.
Perhaps, in the end it will work out well for the Astros. The baseball landscape is littered with long-term deals that have failed spectacularly (think Jason Giambi, Mo Vaughn, Denny Neagle, and Houston's own disappointment with a promising young outfielder coming off a breakout season a few years ago, a guy named Richard Hidalgo).
For all of his obvious gifts, Beltran is still only a career .284 hitter who has hit more than 30 home runs in a season just once. While Beltran may prove to be the kind of talent along the lines of Guerrero or Pujols, he hasn't done it on a grand scale yet, with the exception of his 12 postseason games this past season. And that followed a July 1 -- October 3 stretch during which Beltran hit .249.
But Houston was willing to gamble he was a budding superstar. You could say Purpura and the Astros didn't do what could reasonably be expected to bring back Beltran. They went above and beyond that.
Purpura and baseball operations president Tal Smith are known in the industry for being shrewd when it comes to putting a dollar sign on talent. They knew a fair price for Beltran, and owner Drayton McLane Jr. exceeded that price by a significant margin.
To his further credit, McLane has never made a more impassioned sales pitch in his life. The community also got in on the effort. Fans signed petitions and held Web site drives urging Beltran to return. There were dozens of fans milling around Minute Maid Park late Saturday night awaiting word on Beltran's decision.
Local civic and business leaders got involved in an effort. Teammates like Jeff Bagwell phoned Beltran. Roger Clemens agreed to arbitration, leaving the window open for his return while Beltran made up his mind.
"I can't say enough about the effort everyone put in to try and get this done," Purpura said. "It was a team effort on the part of a lot of people. There were too many issues. We just ran out of time."
It was a combined effort as everyone gave it their best shot. But in the end Beltran wouldn't take $100 million to play baseball in Houston. For him, it wasn't enough.
Blame greed if you like. Blame Boras or Beltran.
Just don't blame Purpura.
Jim Molony is a writer for MLB.com.
Btw Jim rocks...
HOUSTON -- There will be a few misguided individuals who, needing someone to blame for Carlos Beltran's departure, will direct their recriminations at Houston general manager Tim Purpura.
To those who would pillory Purpura because Beltran held the Houston Astros hostage to the 11th hour Saturday night before doing what he obviously intended to do all along -- go for the green -- we say why stop there?
Why not blame Purpura for the price of gas or the weather? That would make about as much sense as blaming him for Beltran bolting.
The fact is the Astros gave Beltran $100 million reasons to return. All of the talk about wanting to play for a winner and liking Houston and playing in warm weather were clearly nothing more than calculated posturing designed to get more money. At least Randy Johnson, after the Astros traded for him during the playoff drove of '98, made it clear to the organization he would not re-sign with them when the season was over.
Agent Scott Boras could have informed the Astros weeks ago that they had no shot at bringing his client back. But that's not Boras' job. His job is to get his clients top dollar, and Beltran will now get that from some other club.
Complete coverage >
Purpura and the Astros had little choice but to take Boras and Beltran at their word, putting everything else on hold. The Astros didn't want to pursue other free agent outfielders and perhaps send the wrong message to Beltran as well as take up money that could be used to sweeten the offer to the budding superstar. Meanwhile, Boras used Houston as a foil to try and start a bidding war between the two New York teams.
"We went as far as we could to get it done, but in the end we ran out of time," Purpura said. "Despite all of our best efforts, we weren't able to get it done and it's certainly very disappointing."
The Astros first offered $70 million, then $75 million, then $84 million and finally $100 million over seven years with a chance to make it $112 million over eight years if the 2012 option was granted. The final offer was more money than Houston has ever offered any player, and that includes Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Johnson or Roger Clemens. And it wasn't enough.
That's as much money as Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols received on his extension last year and more than Angels outfielder Vladimir Guerrero got last year, two players whose statistics clearly surpass Beltran's, and Pujols is three years younger. And it wasn't enough.
Perhaps, in the end it will work out well for the Astros. The baseball landscape is littered with long-term deals that have failed spectacularly (think Jason Giambi, Mo Vaughn, Denny Neagle, and Houston's own disappointment with a promising young outfielder coming off a breakout season a few years ago, a guy named Richard Hidalgo).
For all of his obvious gifts, Beltran is still only a career .284 hitter who has hit more than 30 home runs in a season just once. While Beltran may prove to be the kind of talent along the lines of Guerrero or Pujols, he hasn't done it on a grand scale yet, with the exception of his 12 postseason games this past season. And that followed a July 1 -- October 3 stretch during which Beltran hit .249.
But Houston was willing to gamble he was a budding superstar. You could say Purpura and the Astros didn't do what could reasonably be expected to bring back Beltran. They went above and beyond that.
Purpura and baseball operations president Tal Smith are known in the industry for being shrewd when it comes to putting a dollar sign on talent. They knew a fair price for Beltran, and owner Drayton McLane Jr. exceeded that price by a significant margin.
To his further credit, McLane has never made a more impassioned sales pitch in his life. The community also got in on the effort. Fans signed petitions and held Web site drives urging Beltran to return. There were dozens of fans milling around Minute Maid Park late Saturday night awaiting word on Beltran's decision.
Local civic and business leaders got involved in an effort. Teammates like Jeff Bagwell phoned Beltran. Roger Clemens agreed to arbitration, leaving the window open for his return while Beltran made up his mind.
"I can't say enough about the effort everyone put in to try and get this done," Purpura said. "It was a team effort on the part of a lot of people. There were too many issues. We just ran out of time."
It was a combined effort as everyone gave it their best shot. But in the end Beltran wouldn't take $100 million to play baseball in Houston. For him, it wasn't enough.
Blame greed if you like. Blame Boras or Beltran.
Just don't blame Purpura.
Jim Molony is a writer for MLB.com.
Floyd
Piazza
Matsui
Reyes
Cameron
Add Beltran and possibly Delgado and the Mets will be the most unstoppable team in all of sports minus the Yankees.
Glavine and Pedro.... 2 future hall of famers and Seo, Trachsel, Benson, and Zambrano are fine with run support. Only thing that needs work is our relief squad but at least Looper is pretty good.
Btw I should add that I never really cared for Beltran but it's funny to see astros fans betraying him now.
Piazza
Matsui
Reyes
Cameron
Add Beltran and possibly Delgado and the Mets will be the most unstoppable team in all of sports minus the Yankees.
Glavine and Pedro.... 2 future hall of famers and Seo, Trachsel, Benson, and Zambrano are fine with run support. Only thing that needs work is our relief squad but at least Looper is pretty good.
Btw I should add that I never really cared for Beltran but it's funny to see astros fans betraying him now.
Hah, Pupurra didn't even work on the deal. Hunsicker bailed cause Drayton tried to be Jerry Jones II. This was apparent today when Tim was basically a nonfactor in negotiations.
It came down to Borass being Borass, Beltran playing us for a fool, and whoever signs Beltran will get ARod'd.
Astros have been semi-ARod'd with Bagwell's contract the past 2 years, since he's no longer worth the money he's being paid. We can't really do anything until 2006 when his 17 million come off the books.
It came down to Borass being Borass, Beltran playing us for a fool, and whoever signs Beltran will get ARod'd.
Astros have been semi-ARod'd with Bagwell's contract the past 2 years, since he's no longer worth the money he's being paid. We can't really do anything until 2006 when his 17 million come off the books.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Miguel said:
Its Bags defense he plays hurt
Its not totally his fault,he still puts up decent numbers for a cripple and he plays hard every night for that pay check.I really lost respect for Beltran,I never thought this guy was all about the money or that he would drag this till the last hour and in the process fuck over the Stros more.
Sirpopopop
Member
And so it begins...
The piling on Boras. The lynching of the player who decides to play for money. People look at Boras as some sort of bad guy with no morals. Personally, I see him as one of the most loyal guys out there. He gets his clients the only sure thing in baseball: money.
Well... if you want to do just about anything in this world, say provide for your extended family or buy yourself that huge mansion you always wanted, you're going to need the money. Therefore, why fault a player for chasing the dough. Boohoo!!! So he doesn't stay with the "hometown" team and be their hero. What's to say the hometown fans will be loyal to him when he's career is winding down and his contract is an albatross to the team? Whose to say they'll still like ya if you go through an extended slump, or have a bad outing during a crucial game? Furthermore, what's to say the team won't start trying to push him out of town once he signs the contract and plays for a year because the owners have discovered their team hasn't been as competitive as they thought it would be when they signed the guy (and thus ticket sales have gone down).
I don't think you can ask for a player to be loyal to a team or town when those factions are willing and able to turn on said player. The only thing that you can't take away from a player without his consent is his contract. Best thing a player could do is leverage that for all that he can.
The piling on Boras. The lynching of the player who decides to play for money. People look at Boras as some sort of bad guy with no morals. Personally, I see him as one of the most loyal guys out there. He gets his clients the only sure thing in baseball: money.
Well... if you want to do just about anything in this world, say provide for your extended family or buy yourself that huge mansion you always wanted, you're going to need the money. Therefore, why fault a player for chasing the dough. Boohoo!!! So he doesn't stay with the "hometown" team and be their hero. What's to say the hometown fans will be loyal to him when he's career is winding down and his contract is an albatross to the team? Whose to say they'll still like ya if you go through an extended slump, or have a bad outing during a crucial game? Furthermore, what's to say the team won't start trying to push him out of town once he signs the contract and plays for a year because the owners have discovered their team hasn't been as competitive as they thought it would be when they signed the guy (and thus ticket sales have gone down).
I don't think you can ask for a player to be loyal to a team or town when those factions are willing and able to turn on said player. The only thing that you can't take away from a player without his consent is his contract. Best thing a player could do is leverage that for all that he can.
BigJonsson
Member
Fuck the Mets
Just when you thought things were under fucking control in baseball (excluding the Yanks) the other NY team has to blow everything out of proportion yet again...
WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON!?!?
Baseball has the DUMBEST FREE AGENT RULES!
EVEN DUMBER THEN THE FUCKING NHL
Just when you thought things were under fucking control in baseball (excluding the Yanks) the other NY team has to blow everything out of proportion yet again...
WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON!?!?
Baseball has the DUMBEST FREE AGENT RULES!
EVEN DUMBER THEN THE FUCKING NHL
Matsui and Reyes were injured throughout the season and it was Matsui's first season in the MLB anyway. Floyd and Piazza were injured early on too I think, not to mention that the team was managed badly.
Get out all the laughs now because some of you will be weeping once the season starts.
Get out all the laughs now because some of you will be weeping once the season starts.
Kuroyume said:Matsui and Reyes were injured throughout the season and it was Matsui's first season in the MLB anyway. Floyd and Piazza were injured early on too I think, not to mention that the team was managed badly.
Get out all the laughs now because some of you will be weeping once the season starts.
Too bad there's this one team in the East called the Braves
Sirpopopop
Member
Desperado said:
Yeah... so? Doesn't mean that Houston is a place that's impervious to player criticism...
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