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[Joe]

a bunch of places are reporting that the mets are the heavy front-runners to land pedro martinez and there are also a few places saying the mets and red sox are working on a trade for manny! the newark star ledger even said they were close to a deal!

the first attempt at a trade was kaz matsui and mike piazza for manny ramirez and doug mientkiewicz but the latest report is manny ramirez for kaz matsui and cliff floyd.

 

[captmcblack]

Jesus, why would the Sox do that?

Does Epstein...have a plan?

 

[Joe]

maybe they wanna unload salary to get in the beltran hunt?

 

[BigJonsson]

a bunch of places are reporting that the mets are the heavy front-runners to land pedro martinez and there are also a few places saying the mets and red sox are working on a trade for manny! the newark star ledger even said they were close to a deal!

the first attempt at a trade was kaz matsui and mike piazza for manny ramirez and doug mientkiewicz but the latest report is manny ramirez for kaz matsui and cliff floyd.

So....the Jays might have a chance at 2nd in the AL East? Oh wait, Baltimore is also going to spend a shitload of money

FUCK BASEBALL

 

[Fifty]

It'll be quite a while before we start spending like the big guys....first we have to win and fill the skydome. Hopefully our star players won't get hurt like they did this year, and maybe we can sign Drew or a marquee pitcher...I can hope!

 

[Triumph]

It'll be quite a while before we start spending like the big guys....first we have to win and fill the skydome. Hopefully our star players won't get hurt like they did this year, and maybe we can sign Drew or a marquee pitcher...I can hope!

Nah, Drew is represented by Satan incarnate, aka Scott Boras. He goes where the money goes.

 

[Fifty]

You underestimate our hotdog revenue.

 

[Joe]

anddd the boston herald is reporting that pedro martinez is officially a new york met!

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=58655
"ANAHEIM -- After weeks of negotiations, all indications today pointed to Pedro Martinez [stats, news] ending his career as a Red Sox [stats, schedule] and accepting a four-year offer from the New York Mets, the Herald learned.

``He was a great member of the Red Sox team for seven years, and a certain Hall of Famer,'' Red Sox president Larry Lucchino told The Associated Press in an e-mail. ``He will be missed, and we are disappointed to have lost him to the Mets and the National League.''"


red sox are still looking to sign renteria and they are also going after matt clement.

 

[Joe]

the whole randy johnson thing is playing out just the way the yankees want it to

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1945810

 

[Joe]

im not sure if its been posted but richie sexson is a mariner, and the yankees turned down a trade offer from the marlins...aj burnett for javier vazquez and $10 million...silly marlins.

white sox trade carlos lee to the brewers for scott podsednik.

 

[Kuroyume]

WOOO PEDRO IS MY DADDY! Tom glavine... Pedro....unstoppable....

 

[Joe]

well...they still need 3,4,5 starters...and a bullpen...and a closer....and more power in their lineup.

other than that they're doing ok.

 

[Ned Flanders]

Pedro really does want a shot at Mrs Benson..heh..

Oh and BTW, Pedro at the plate in the NL is bound to lead to inummerable classic sports moments.

 

[brooklyngooner]

I live and die with the Mets and I do not approve this Pedro move.

 

[Bauer Action Hour]

well...they still need 3,4,5 starters...and a bullpen...and a closer....and more power in their lineup.

other than that they're doing ok.

Um... Benson, Trachsel and Zambrano as the 3-5 starters? Looper the closer?

The bullpen is unproven as a whole, but the Mets have some younger guys with talent in Orber Moreno and Tyler Yates (Heath Bell also fits in among this group). Mike DeJean is average, which isn't a bad thing to have on your staff and Scott Strickland is better than average when healthy (start of 2k5 will make it 1.5 years since his TJ surgery, he should be fine). However, they could stand to add one other proven above average reliever.

The lineup comment is your only 100% valid comment. The Mets need to add quality 2 bats, in addition to the previously mentioned reliever, to be a true playoff contender. I don't think they'll be able to add 2 bats given their payroll (current roster + Pedro at $14 M = ~ $94 M).

The Mets could feasably add one huge bat like Carlos Delgado @ $13 M per season and one reliever @ $3 M, while playing a kid in the OF (Victor Diaz) and end up having a $110 M payroll with a quality squad. It shouldn't take a lot to do well in the NL East.

 

[Willco]

The Mets are in trouble, because if they don't piece together a squad, the Nationals will be able to next year. Same goes for the rest of the NL East.

With over 15,000 ticket deposits, a publically-funded new stadium three years out and a core of young guys, the owner will inevitably double payroll and the rest of the NL East will have to compete with Washington as well.

More competition is good, as the NL East has the possibility of becoming the best division in baseball. Better than the AL West.

 

[Triumph]

It doesn't matter. They're the Mets. Even with Pedro, Glavine, and the three decent to mediocre guys following them, they will find a way to implode and suck in spectacular fashion. Plus Pedro's arm is GOING to fall off sometime in the next four years. He has a torn labrum in his shoulder. It's common knowledge.

Also, as long as Bobby Cox and Leo Mazzone are in the Braves dugout, the road to the East title goes through Atlanta. Accept it.

 

[Willco]

I think you've always got to admire the Braves for what they accomplish with next to nothing.

The Mets have the most overpriced, underperforming rotation in all of baseball. They give away hideous contracts that hurt other teams. If Benson hadn't signed for that retarded deal, Washington would be able to sign Odalis Perez right now. Fuckers.

 

[brooklyngooner]

Um... Benson, Trachsel and Zambrano as the 3-5 starters? Looper the closer?

The bullpen is unproven as a whole, but the Mets have some younger guys with talent in Orber Moreno and Tyler Yates (Heath Bell also fits in among this group). Mike DeJean is average, which isn't a bad thing to have on your staff and Scott Strickland is better than average when healthy (start of 2k5 will make it 1.5 years since his TJ surgery, he should be fine). However, they could stand to add one other proven above average reliever.

The lineup comment is your only 100% valid comment. The Mets need to add quality 2 bats, in addition to the previously mentioned reliever, to be a true playoff contender. I don't think they'll be able to add 2 bats given their payroll (current roster + Pedro at $14 M = ~ $94 M).

The Mets could feasably add one huge bat like Carlos Delgado @ $13 M per season and one reliever @ $3 M, while playing a kid in the OF (Victor Diaz) and end up having a $110 M payroll with a quality squad. It shouldn't take a lot to do well in the NL East.

The rotation is quite solid, but Trachsel is really the only innings-eater in there, and the bullpen is nowhere near as solid as you make it out to be. Adding Pedro just makes it more necessary to add relievers. Who?

I think they'll eventually be studs but you're also putting a lot on the shoulders of Wright and Diaz.

Delgado is good, but still, why do we keep adding age? What happened to the youth movement we were promised? This is typical Mets -- adding aging, past-their-prime vets for ridiculous money to paper over the cracks. This is yet another dumb PR move by the Coupons who are slaves to PR and "making a splash."

Pedro has a torn labrum. FACT. He is damaged goods, will not last the four years, and is not worth fourteen mil a year.

 

[Willco]

With the money the Mets spent on Pedro, they're not going to be able to afford Delgado.

He's going to Baltimore or Boston, most likely.

That rotation is awful.

Tom Glavine = Really Fucking Old. Good, but - damn! - he is old.
Pedro Martinez = Five innings for $13.5 million a year? What a waste. And he won't last three years.
Kris Benson = Most overpaid athlete in baseball. Career loser. Horrible control. Just an awful contract.
Steve Traschel = Overpriced, but dependable.
Victor Zambrano = What a huge bust. You guys gave away Kazmir for this bafoon? Haha!

 

[Bauer Action Hour]

Raoul, you make some good points.

It seems almost mystical the way the Braves have been able to hang on to the NL East. Their pitching staff last year was pretty bad coming into the season, yet they got Jaret Wright to pitch like a quality starter, John Thompson to improve to better than average, Chris Reitsma and Antonio Alfonseca to pitch like a quality relievers, etc. Hampton and Ortiz have pitched above their heads as well.

The Braves even had JD Drew give them a healthy season, in which he played like superstar. It's crazy. However, Drew is gone. Ortiz is gone. The Braves are about to start paying Hampton $12+ M per, etc. Things look stacked against them.

I won't count the Braves out. They've made fools out of anyone doubting their ability to piece together quality teams from scratch. But, you've got to figure that at some point every move that they make won't smell like a rose every time.

 

[brooklyngooner]

Who cares what the Braves do during the regular season? They do nothing in the playoffs. They can't even sell out their home playoff games.

 

[Willco]

Braves are still the beasts of the East.

 

[Bauer Action Hour]

Will, Pedro averages more than 6 IP per start. You're wrong.

Benson's control is above average. Last year he gave up just 61 BB in just over 200 IP - about 2.8 per 9IP. You're wrong.

However, I don't think the starting staff as a whole is great or even good. Pedro is outstanding, but he's needed to balance out the back end of the rotation's mediocrity. I think the staff is slightlly above average.

 

[Triumph]

True. Honestly, I believe this year is our last quality year. Losing Wright and Ortiz looks bad on face value, until you realize that you're adding John freaking Smoltz back to the rotation and that Horacio Ramirez SHOULD(crosses fingers) be healthy all year. Horacio was our best starter last year until he went down, and honestly losing Ortiz isn't that big of a deal for me, cause he sucked balls the last two months of the season.

Losing JD Drew kinda sucks. But if Chipper can keep up what he did the last couple months and Giles stays healthy, I think we're gonna be ok. Plus, Scheurholz isn't through yet. I expect him to sign a quality(not great, but quality) bat, or trade for one. And maybe add another good reliever, although we can always dip into the never ending supply of good prospects we have in the minors for pitching.

I expect the Braves to win the East this year and then start to rebuild next year. This is probably Smoltz's last season as a Brave, and that's a damn crying shame for this lifelong(before they were good, even) Braves fan. I expect to be there on opening day to see him pitch again. And I expect the Tigers to give him some ludicrous deal after this season. He is a Michigan native, after all.

 

[Triumph]

Who cares what the Braves do during the regular season? They do nothing in the playoffs. They can't even sell out their home playoff games.

Hey buddy. At least we GET to the dance. The Mets have been so amazingly mismanaged it's going to take Minaya about 3 or 4 years to get credible again. And paying Pedro 50 whatever million for four years when he's gonna last two isn't the way to start out doing that.

Have fun looking up at us in the standings this year!

 

[brooklyngooner]

Hey buddy. At least we GET to the dance. The Mets have been so amazingly mismanaged it's going to take Minaya about 3 or 4 years to get credible again. And paying Pedro 50 whatever million for four years when he's gonna last two isn't the way to start out doing that.

Have fun looking up at us in the standings this year!

Read my other posts, you're preaching to the choir. But at least when we go to the playoffs we make it count. Oh yeah and people go to the games.

 

[Bauer Action Hour]

Moving Smoltz back to the rotation is a good risk for the Braves to take, but it is a risk.

It's hard to predict whether he'll be able to hold up over the course of a full season starting at his advanced age, as well as what kind of hit his effectiveness will take in doing so (relievers have something like 0.50 lower ERAs than starters on average).

Still, it's a risk the Braves need to take.

 

[Triumph]

Read my other posts, you're preaching to the choir. But at least when we go to the playoffs we make it count. Oh yeah and people go to the games.

Yeah, the citizens of Atlanta are shitty fans. For the most part. I mean, I've been buying Braves tickets and cheering them on in the playoffs for years, but the majority of the town and surrounding area just doesn't give a shit. The Braves would need to win it all again to make people care. Plus the Falcons are the New Hotness in town. That's all anyone cares about.

Oh well, I'll be there opening day and closing day, same as always.

 

[Willco]

Will, Pedro averages more than 6 IP per start. You're wrong.

Pedro also pitched in the AL. The dude's arm is going to fall off at any minute and now the Mets are making him pitch in a league where pitch count is always higher and has to bat? He won't last five innings and he won't last four years. You're wrong.

Benson's control is above average. Last year he gave up just 61 BB in just over 200 IP - about 2.8 per 9IP. You're wrong.

Benson has horrible command at worst and below average command at best. He also gave up 15 home runs last season. He had an ERA well above 4.00 and - once again! - he's a career loser. His WHIP is mediocre at best. And the Mets forked out $21 million for this guy? Laughable!

However, I don't think the starting staff as a whole is great or even good. Pedro is outstanding, but he's needed to balance out the back end of the rotation's mediocrity. I think the staff is slightlly above average.

It's average at best. I'd take any other rotation from any team in the league, save for maybe the Tigers, Mariners and Devil Rays.

 

[Kuroyume]

I don't care if the rest of the rotation isn't so hot, at least we have two aces in our staff (and age really doesn't matter for pitchers.) Oh, and I love how Wilco knows Pedro's body perfectly. I forgot he was Pedro himself.

 

[Willco]

I don't care if the rest of the rotation isn't so hot, at least we have two aces in our staff (and age really doesn't matter for pitchers.)

It does when one is declining faster than you can say torn labrum and the other is almost completely out of gas.

Oh, and I love how Wilco knows Pedro's body perfectly. I forgot he was Pedro himself.

No, you see, I read this thing called THE NEWS. You should try it some time. Helpful and everything.

 

[Triumph]

I don't care if the rest of the rotation isn't so hot, at least we have two aces in our staff (and age really doesn't matter for pitchers.)

:lol :lol :lol

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. I heard something similar when you got Mo Vaughn- "Weight and conditioning doesn't matter for first basemen."

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Kuroyume]

Yeah, I guess you're right. Roger Clemens is like 4 years older and we know what a piece of crap that guy is now.

 

[Willco]

Yeah, I guess you're right. Roger Clemens is like 4 years older and we know what a piece of crap that guy is now.

Than who? Glavine?

It's a fact that Glavine is running out of gas, whereas Clemens is immortal somehow. His speed is dippin' on the radar gun like 'ole Tom.

And it's also a fact that Pedro is on the brink of destruction. Have fun with that contract!

 

[Bauer Action Hour]

Pedro also pitched in the AL. The dude's arm is going to fall off at any minute and now the Mets are making him pitch in a league where pitch count is always higher and has to bat? He won't last five innings and he won't last four years. You're wrong.

Where are you getting this from? It's EASIER to pitch in the NL due to the pitcher batting. Pitch count is no different in either league. Again, where are you getting this from? Batting means jack shit. He'll be an automatic out like most pitchers and it won't mean a thing. It's not like he has no experience doing so, considering his time in LA and MON. He'll pitch 6 innings a start. The issue is whether he'll make 32 starts or 20.

Benson has horrible command at worst and below average command at best. He also gave up 15 home runs last season. He had an ERA well above 4.00 and - once again! - he's a career loser. His WHIP is mediocre at best. And the Mets forked out $21 million for this guy? Laughable!

You're still making shit up. His command is average at WORST. Look at his BB rates versus the league average. They were slightly better than average 2002-2003 and much better than average last year. 15 HR over 200 IP is a VERY GOOD rate. The average pitcher gives up above 21 HR per 200 IP. His WHIP is average, but so what? What's wrong with being average? An average team finishes with 81 wins, a significant improvement over the Mets' previous records. The money total was laughable, but the Mets have the cash to throw around.

It's average at best. I'd take any other rotation from any team in the league, save for maybe the Tigers, Mariners and Devil Rays.

Like I said before, even if a component of a team is only average, it's not the end of the world. I think they're slightly better than average, but it's not a huge point of contention.

Also I'd take the Mets' starting staff over Colorado, San Diego, Arizona, Milwaukee, Cincinatti, Pittsburgh, Washington, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Toronto, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Kansas City, Detroit, ChiSox, Texas and Seattle's. Average means middle of the pack, not fourth to last.

 

[tekkenmasterAC]

If the A's get rid of hudson I swear ill go down to oakland and beat some sence into billy, were not the god damm Warriors we should be smart ball club owners

 

[Willco]

Where are you getting this from? It's EASIER to pitch in the NL due to the pitcher batting.

Only easier to pitch to a pitcher, not to the team. NL games are longer than AL games simply because the NL, moreso than the AL, manufactures hits and requires a decent OBP from its players. This isn't the case for the AL.

It's not like he has no experience doing so, considering his time in LA and MON.

The Pedro of old is not the Pedro of now. The dude is a year away from imploding.

You're still making shit up. His command is average at WORST. Look at his BB rates versus the league average. They were slightly better than average 2002-2003 and much better than average last year. 15 HR over 200 IP is a VERY GOOD rate. The average pitcher gives up above 21 HR per 200 IP. His WHIP is average, but so what? What's wrong with being average? An average team finishes with 81 wins, a significant improvement over the Mets' previous records.

His walk rate is better this year, but comparing him to the league average is ridiculous since the league is made up primarily by a bunch of shitty pitchers. His WHIP is below average and before last year, was consistently worse. You tend to go with overall trends than a contract year performance and for a contract year performance, he sucked. And he's still a career loser.

The money total was laughable, but the Mets have the cash to throw around.

Not really. They're running into problems by allocating all this cash to Benson and Martinez and they won't be able to sign players that could actually help them.

Like I said before, even if a component of a team is only average, it's not the end of the world. I think they're slightly better than average, but it's not a huge point of contention.

Also I'd take the Mets' starting staff over Colorado, San Diego, Arizona, Milwaukee, Cincinatti, Pittsburgh, Washington, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Toronto, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Kansas City, Detroit, ChiSox, Texas and Seattle's. Average means middle of the pack, not fourth to last.

I forgot to mention Colorado, but most of the teams on your list have superior staffs.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Benson has horrible command at worst and below average command at best. He also gave up 15 home runs last season. He had an ERA well above 4.00 and - once again! - he's a career loser. His WHIP is mediocre at best. And the Mets forked out $21 million for this guy? Laughable!

hmm... 15 Home runs isn't a bad amount. Ben Sheets, Johan Santana, and Odalis Perez gave up more in a similiar amount of innings just for starters.

So please come up with another issue to explain how Benson has bad control...

A Career Loser? If you play for the Pirates, what else do you expect?

The Mets definitely overpaid for Benson, but you make him seem like a horrible pitcher, when he is merely an average pitcher (ERA-wise) in today's league.

Edit: In any case, when you trade the prospects that you do for a pitcher like Benson, you better keep him or else the trade is a waste.

 

[brooklyngooner]

h

Edit: In any case, when you trade the prospects that you do for a pitcher like Benson, you better keep him or else the trade is a waste.

This the logic I don't understand. Why be so intent on him when there are comparable/better pitchers for the money? The trade was a waste the day the Mets stopped contending.

 

[Willco]

hmm... 15 Home runs isn't a bad amount. Ben Sheets, Johan Santana, and Odalis Perez gave up more in a similiar amount of innings just for starters.

So please come up with another issue to explain how Benson has bad control...

A Career Loser? If you play for the Pirates, what else do you expect?

The Mets definitely overpaid for Benson, but you make him seem like a horrible pitcher, when he is merely an average pitcher (ERA-wise) in today's league.

Edit: In any case, when you trade the prospects that you do for a pitcher like Benson, you better keep him or else the trade is a waste.

I never said Benson was horrible, that just his command ranges from horrible to average at best. He's one of the most erratic pitchers in the game. He'll pitch a gem and walk seven and give up two homers the next game. All his stats range from below average to average, there's nothing he really does good and the Mets paid a shitload for him.

I can only think Anna Benson screwed someone for his contract.

 

[theo]

Pedro's refusal of an MRI for his physical should tell the mets to bail out quick! Guaranteeing him 4 years is throwing at least 20 million down the drain. Stupid Mets.

 

[Matrix]

Yeah, I guess you're right. Roger Clemens is like 4 years older and we know what a piece of crap that guy is now.

:lol you have got to be kidding me.

 

[Willco]

Pedro's refusal of an MRI for his physical should tell the mets to bail out quick! Guaranteeing him 4 years is throwing at least 20 million down the drain. Stupid Mets.

Yeah, really.

EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!

ESPN News is reporting that the deal is apparently still being negotiated and the Red Sox are still in discussions with Pedro's agent.

 

[Sirpopopop]

I never said Benson was horrible, that just his command ranges from horrible to average at best. He's one of the most erratic pitchers in the game. He'll pitch a gem and walk seven and give up two homers the next game. All his stats range from below average to average, there's nothing he really does good and the Mets paid a shitload for him.

I can only think Anna Benson screwed someone for his contract.

Can you throw in any statistical analysis that proves your points?

All that I'm hearing from you is, "I think his command sucks." Yet, whenever someone brings up points to debunk it - (See Brooklyn with the walk ratio, and the HR example) you dismiss it and continue to beat your drum.

Brooklyn: The Mets invested too much just to get the guy in the first place. Letting him walk after half of a season would be a total waste of the farm wealth that you spent just to get him in the first place. If you had no hope or desire to resign him, then why waste all that farm system wealth to get him.

In any case, it's not as if we couldn't get some of the better pitchers on the market instead of Pedro.

 

[Willco]

Alright, completely ignore the fat I said this....

His walk rate is better this year, but comparing him to the league average is ridiculous since the league is made up primarily by a bunch of shitty pitchers. His WHIP is below average and before last year, was consistently worse. You tend to go with overall trends than a contract year performance and for a contract year performance, he sucked. And he's still a career loser.

You want proof of how erratic he is?

First game as a Met he gives up 7 ERs.

Then he gives up just one the next start.

Then he gives up 6 ERs and 3 HRs.

Then he gives up just 3 ERs for two consecutive starts.

Then he gives up 5.

Then, in typical Benson fashion, he pitches shutout ball for two games.

Then, in typical Benson fashion, he gives up 6 ERs.

Ends his season as a Met giving up just 3 ERs over his two last games.

... The dude is a SCHIZO of a pitcher.

 

[Eminem]

Also I'd take the Mets' starting staff over Colorado, San Diego, Arizona, Milwaukee, Cincinatti, Pittsburgh, Washington, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Toronto, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Kansas City, Detroit, ChiSox, Texas and Seattle's. Average means middle of the pack, not fourth to last.

even though it's looking more and more like we're still gonna sign another starter(Clement, please. I loathe the cubs, but I've always always always loved you =( ), I'll take the young 1-2 of Freddy Garcia and Mark Buehrle over the aging Pedro and Glavine, particularly in the regular season.
Honestly, the rest of both are staffs is about equal...nothing special. Mostly waaay too inconsistant(though I'm extremely happy we have Contreras and not Loaiza).

 

[Iceman]

Jake Peavy + Brian Lawrence + Woody Williams + Adam Eaton >> You.

 

[Bauer Action Hour]

For the guys with a couple of specific counter examples:

Even if the staffs are slightly better or equal or whatever, the point still stands that the starting the staff the Mets would have with the signing of Pedro would be average, not 4th worst like Willco mentioned.

Also a point for Willco w/r/t comparing to league average...

The only real way to gauge a player, pitcher or position player, is to what his peers are doing. Any other way is completely arbitrary.

If a league average pitcher in 2004 gives up a 4.40 ERA, but a league average pitcher in 1972 gives up a 3.70 ERA, it does not mean the latter player is better. It simply means that conditions in 1972 were such that they made things more conducive to a lower run environment. You have to be able to realize that both pitchers in the example have equal value to their teams.

 

[Eminem]

also, has anyone else came to loathe bill simmons recently? jesus, his newest article makes me want to peckerslap him. shut the fuck up already. whiney little bitch.