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Batman R.I.P.: an Official Thread for Speculation, Discussion, and "OMGWTF" Hysteria.

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Ok I really digged this issue, I think it was marketed the wrong way but this has been an amazing run with a pretty fun ending; most of all I love how it feels like a pulp book with all the cheesy characters and Morrison needs to write more stories with Joker.
Still I have to admit I was disapointed by it, but I had already set my expections somewhat lower when FC was supposed to feature the real afternath of RIP.

Oh and I think ZurrEnHarr is meant to be taken as
Zorro in Arkham
Zabka said:
What the fuck was that nonsense? Cheesy as hell, right down to the
villain gloating in his getaway copter, his #1 henchman shows up out of nowhere as the helicopter pilot, while the hero jumps on at the last second and forces it to crash
.
This whole run has been cheesy, you had a mime as a villain.
 

Zabka

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
The second to last scene is directly analogous to that first page. It's probably happening right outside that warehouse, actually.
Yeah I just re-read the issue, I was just irritated by the lame ending.
This whole run has been cheesy, you had a mime as a villain.
Batman's had a clown as a villain since the 40s, that doesn't make every Joker comic cheesy.
 
Zabka said:
Batman's had a clown as a villain since the 40s, that doesn't make every Joker comic cheesy.
Clows are scary while mimes are just mimes. Seriously the guy was awesome, he never uttered a word, the balloons were always empty.
I really liked the Black Glove henchmen's, sombrero hombre, a famous Australian bandit doppelganger, even a lame copy of cheesy Joker.

Knowing this ties in heavily with FC makes me wonder about Hurt real identity.
 
Zabka said:
Well, whatever makes it work in your mind I guess.
It's not about my screwed up psyche, it's about how this run has had cheesy elements since day one.
Anyway, really fun issue even if it let me a tad disapointed, on the other hand it seems RIP continues next week, since they're by Morrison and included on the hardcover edition.
 

Tamanon

Banned
I really enjoyed the issue personally. I'm just a big fan of Bruce being Super Prep Time. I think Morrison set out just to see the most outlandish method of attacking Bruce/Batman that he could outwit.:lol
 

Zabka

Member
Prime crotch said:
It's not about my screwed up psyche, it's about how this run has had cheesy elements since day one.
Anyway, really fun issue even if it let me a tad disapointed, on the other hand it seems RIP continues next week, since they're by Morrison and included on the hardcover edition.
Every Batman comic has cheesy elements. It's Batman. This issue wasn't Batman cheesy though, this was Magnum PI season finale cheesy.
 
Man, I'm so dissapointed right now. This issue would have been fine if it were NOT the final issue. Now I have to wait until Final Crisis #6 to find out what really happens.

In fact, Simon Hurt
claiming he was Thomas Wayne and it being portrayed as true (as opposed to Bruce instantly discarding it) would have made the issue so much better.
What hurts it is that there is no closure and somehow, everyone just felt useless.

I'm scared for FC now.

EDIT: Also,
why did Batman hang up the cowl? There was no reason to, nothing that should stop him from being Bats. He outsmarted his opponets, beat them and survived. Or did I just miss that in the issue?
 

AniHawk

Member
koshunter said:
Man, I'm so dissapointed right now. This issue would have been fine if it were NOT the final issue. Now I have to wait until Final Crisis #6 to find out what really happens.

In fact, Simon Hurt
claiming he was Thomas Wayne and it being portrayed as true (as opposed to Bruce instantly discarding it) would have made the issue so much better.
What hurts it is that there is no closure and somehow, everyone just felt useless.

I'm scared for FC now.

EDIT: Also,
why did Batman hang up the cowl? There was no reason to, nothing that should stop him from being Bats. He outsmarted his opponets, beat them and survived. Or did I just miss that in the issue?

Librium's one helluva drug?
 
Someone pointed out on the CBR forums something that occurred in this issue as well:

The reason Batman
gives up the costume and retires is because Hurt had planted a trigger in his mind during the isolation experiments (Issue #679, the Batmite explains this to Bruce). In this issue, Simon Hurt uses that trigger to make Bruce quite crime-fighting and dissappear.

Although I missed that little bit in issue #679 initially, still doesn't make the issue more likable. =/
 
I really think anyone pinning his hopes on #682 and #683 is in for another letdown.

Yes, they're written by Morrison, and yes, they're included in the RIP hardcover. But nothing in either the solicitations or any of the interviews I've read (with Morrison, DiDio, or anyone else) indicates that they'll provide any additional resolution to the Black Glove mystery beyond what's in #681.

At least we won't have to wait too long to find out whether I'm right or wrong.
 
http://www.funnybookbabylon.com/2008/11/26/batman-681-batman-rip-part-6-hearts-in-darkness/
Annotations are up, and it seems his first reaction was a tad overboard.

I think I'll reread the entire run now, and is it just me or did this issue looked a lot better than the previous ones? Was it just because the red and black motif or did Daniels improved his work?
Father_Brain said:
I really think anyone pinning his hopes on #682 and #683 is in for another letdown.
The biggest wait will be FC#6,
I think it's safe to say that Hurt is probably a New God.
.
 

AniHawk

Member
Father_Brain said:
I really think anyone pinning his hopes on #682 and #683 is in for another letdown.

Yes, they're written by Morrison, and yes, they're included in the RIP hardcover. But nothing in either the solicitations or any of the interviews I've read (with Morrison, DiDio, or anyone else) indicates that they'll provide any additional resolution to the Black Glove mystery beyond what's in #681.

At least we won't have to wait too long to find out whether I'm right or wrong.

I thought they were gonna be done by Gaiman.
 
AniHawk said:
I thought they were gonna be done by Gaiman.

Nope.
Gaiman's two issues ship in February, and they're an out-of-continuity story that has nothing to do with RIP.

Prime crotch said:
The biggest wait will be FC#6,
I think it's safe to say that Hurt is probably a New God.
.

If RIP was really tied that fundamentally to Final Crisis, it would automatically make Morrison's entire run a failure as a self-contained story. I hope not.
 

Mistouze

user-friendly man-cashews
Prime crotch said:
The biggest wait will be FC#6,
I think it's safe to say that Hurt is probably a New God.
.

Thinking about it
Bruce Wayne might become the host of a new god, dude was abducted and put into a machine, he did not get the control helmet treatment. But I did not read RIP so can't now if there were hints about Hurt being a new god or not
 

FoneBone

Member
Father_Brain said:

Nope.
If RIP was really tied that fundamentally to Final Crisis, it would automatically make Morrison's entire run a failure as a self-contained story. I hope not.
Yeah, I don't buy any theories that tie the two that closely.
 
Father_Brain said:
If RIP was really tied that fundamentally to Final Crisis, it would automatically make Morrison's entire run a failure as a self-contained story. I hope not.
I don't know, I think RIP's goal was a story where Batman was relentlessly attacked by all sides and still overcomes it, the big reveal of who Hurt is may not matter as much as we thought to the core of the story.
I am disapointed though, but more because of the way they were publicitizing it, I mean "THE SHOCKING TWIST THAT WILL CHANGE BATMAN FOREVER" or something like that does set expectations a bit high. Even fuels the suspicions of a rewrite.
The last page was just perfect though, really great.
 
I agree that if Bruce didn't automatically ignore Hurt
claiming to be Thomas Wayne, it would have been better. Like maybe if they had ended the previous issue with Hurt saying that, and not letting it be disputed until this issue.

I'm pretty satisfied overall with RIP. Can't wait for Final Crisis $6, the next two Batman issues, Battle for the Cowl, and what comes next.
 
Teh Hamburglar said:
Anyone have a spoiler for what happened? Doesn't seem to be a complete synopsis in the thread.

-Some crazy group of heroes probably from the 40's or 50's appears to save Robin.
-The Black Glove buries Bruce alive, but he breaks out.
-The Joker fucks over The Black Glove by trapping them in a building waiting for Batman to arrive. Joker knows he will because he "gets" Batman.
-Nightwing shows up and helps Batman fight The Black Glove.
-Damian and Alfred are driving the Batmobile and Damian runs an ambulance off a bridge on accident. Turns out The Joker is driving the ambulance:lol
-Dr. Hurt claims to be Thomas Wayne, but is not.
-Batman grabs hold of Hurt's helicopter and it crashes into a lake.
-In the wreckage nothing is found but Batman's "cowl". Nightwing ala Dick Grayson is depicted grasping it.
-Jezebelle Jet's plane is attacked toward the end by an army of bats. Tahlia al Ghoul is probably responsible for that.
-Six months after the crash, a policeman is being tortured by the hunchback dude (I forget his name) and he comments that both Batman and Robin are dead. In the next frame the Batman symbol flashes in the window, and the issue ends.
-So the conclusion is...Batman is "dead", Bruce's body is missing.

The next two issues of Batman are written by Grant Morrison, are supposed to shine new details on the life of Batman, reveal more about RIP, and bridge the gap between RIP and Final Crisis supposedly.
 
Teh Hamburglar said:
Anyone have a spoiler for what happened? Doesn't seem to be a complete synopsis in the thread.
I'll try, but I'm still digesting it.

Issue opens in darkness and then the following: "But that's the thing about Batman. Batman thinks of everything." We get a shot of Batman awakening, dressed in his normal costume, tied up in a straitjacket, and sealed in a coffin. Cut to a flashback of Nanda Parbat, where Bruce is discussing the Thogal ritual with one of the priests. Apparently during Thogal, Bruce discovered a hole in his mind waiting to swallow him, and questions whether it might be possible to create a backup personality as a defense. The priest confesses his admiration for Bruce, then admits he has poisoned his tea... the priest is working for the Black Glove. Cut to Gotham, where Robin is still fighting Mime and Swagman; the Club of Heroes shows up and saves his butt just in time.

Flash back to Nanda Parbat, where the priest discovers that HE is feeling the poison's effects; Bruce reveals that out of habit he switched cups with the priest when he BLINKED. Flash forward to Arkham, where Hurt, Jezebel, and the other "fingers" of the Black Glove are standing over Batman's grave; the plan is to wait until the air runs out, then dig Bruce out to torment a drooling vegetable. Back inside, Joker wants to place a bet of his own, and kills one of the "fingers" to stake his claim. He wants to bet they have no idea what they're dealing with, and that Batman is going to pop out and kick their asses any second. As proof of this, he hands them the busted radio that Batman believed to be the Bat-Radia, which on further inspection has been rewired... to send a signal to the Bat-Computer that will lockdown security at Arkham.

In the operating theater, a disfigured Bossu finally arrives to carry out his delayed lobotomy on Nightwing. But the delay gave Nightwing time enough to recover, and he attacks Bossu and the other Club of Villains rejects. Flash back once again to Nanda Parbat, where Bruce administers an antidote to the priest, but not before telling him to relay a message to his master. Bruce had undergone Thogal to experience death, to know it, and to destroy the last vestiges of fear and doubt in his mind. Now, he is ready to face whatever the priest's master might throw at him.

Yep, Batman knew someone was out to get him long, LONG before the events of "RIP" even began, and that gave him -- say it with me -- prep time.

Back in the present, Batman has successfully managed to pick the locks, loosen the straitjacket, and bench press the coffin lid through the dirt, emerging from the grave like a man reborn. Inside Arkham, Joker explains to Hurt and the rest why you can't beat the Bat, then beats a hasty retreat just as the Dark Knight emerges from the shadows. Jezebel and Hurt sic their goons on him, and while he's beating them down he reveals to Jezebel that his love for her was an act and that he knew she was involved almost from the very start of their romance. Nightwing fights his way to Batman, they meet, and Dick takes on the goons leaving Bruce to go after Hurt.

Elsewhere in Gotham, the Club of Heroes splits up to take on the Club of Villains' goons, telling Robin to find Batman. Joker's escaped Arkham in an ambulance, but it's run off a bridge by the Batmobile... driven by Damian Wayne, with Alfred as his passenger.

On the rooftops of Arkham, Hurt and Batman face off. Hurt pulls a gun and shoots Batman while (possibly?) uttering another trigger phrase: "I must put away my Batman costume... and retire from crimefighting." Then Hurt claims that he is Dr. Thomas Wayne, that Martha and Bruce were supposed to die that night "but Chill lost his nerve." Removing his cowl, Bruce dismisses this revelation as another lie, claiming Hurt is the actor Mangrove Pierce instead. As his getaway helicopter approaches, Hurt says that the Black Glove has ruined the Wayne Family, that documents and photos will portray them as degenerates... unless Batman agrees to serve the Black Glove.

Bruce refuses, and leaps onto the chopper. As the chopper spins out of control, Bruce's black glove smashes through the windshield... and then, the chopper crashes in Gotham Bay with a fiery explosion. Everyone converges on the shore nearby; Robin informs Commissioner Gordon that Batman was going after conspirators trying to ruin Bruce Wayne for his business rivals. Talia talks of retribution, as her assassins roll up their sleeves and stick needles in their arms. And Nightwing stands on the rooftop of Arkham, the cowl of Batman in his hand.

Cut to a private jetliner, already miles away from Gotham. Jezebel Jet is making her escape from Gotham, back to her own country. As she sips her champagne and gets debriefed by her assistant, she gets a call... and then hears a noise. Outside the jet, we see the winged forms of Talia's bat-ninjas descending on the plane. Retribution indeed.

Six months later, Le Bossu and his men are torturing a policeman in Gotham. Claiming no one can save the cop, that the Dynamic Duo are dead, Bossu moves toward his victim. But then, a light shines through the window, and a Bat-Symbol appears. Cut to... well, cut to the very first page of the Batman RIP storyline.

Epilogue: the Wayne family is leaving that fateful showing of "The Mask of Zorro." As a shadowed figure looks on, young Bruce goes on about the movie, how awesome it would be to be Zorro, or have a real-life Zorro riding through Gotham. Humoring their son, the Waynes (who are both wearing black gloves, btw) tell him that Gotham probably wouldn't look too fondly on a masked vigilante. In fact, "they'd probably throw someone like Zorro in Arkham."

"Zorro in Arkham" "ZORro IN ARkham."

The last panel is the word "ZURENARRH" written backwards.

EDIT: Curse my thoroughness, ToyMachine beat me to it.
 
Someone on the CBR forums had a crazy theory, here's just the jist of it:

Batman/Final Crisis Spoilers:
-Batman looking at the grids said that there was a blueprint designed to MAKE Batman
-Black Glove created Batman into the noble hero he is today
-Simon Hurt is a puppet of Darkseid or a New God in disguise
-Final Crisis - Batman gets taken over by Darkseid?

I think that sums it up, could use a little more details though. Will type them later/answer questions.
 
Spike Spiegel said:
EDIT: Curse my thoroughness, ToyMachine beat me to it.

No don't curse it, it's a great write up. A lot better than mine. I even took some new bits I didn't notice from your write up. Good stuff.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
omg rite said:
That would be terrible. Like, Sandman killing Uncle Ben terrible.

You should never fuck with the classic origins. Ever.

Exactly. It taints the main character's motivations. Never want to do that.
 

Ephemeris

Member
First read, I was left a little confused. A couple questions, a feeling of "wtfisthisshit" mixed with "that's it?". I initially wondered where was the "'the most shocking reveal in 70 years". Subsequent readings made things a little bit clearer. For one, this is *the* definition of prep-time bats :lol

Nothing was spelled out explicitly, but here's a couple of my interpretations
1) The Black Glove was trying to kill Bruce for a while.
2) Whether the Waynes were members of the Black Glove or not, it seems they were assassinated by them. (So much for a random killing.)
3) More importantly, that Hurt created "The Batman"
4) Oh. Those 'Hurt = the Devil' theories looked pretty strong in this issue.

It may not have lived up to my *very* high expectations, but it was a solid arc. At its core, it was a Batman story showing him doing what he does best.

And I'm all for Prodigal Part Two.
 
Ephemeris said:
It may not have lived up to my *very* high expectations, but it was a solid arc. At its core, it was a Batman story showing him doing what he does best.

This. Totally. That's why this issue was so fucking badass.
 
Spike Spiegel said:
I'll try, but I'm still digesting it.


EDIT: Curse my thoroughness, ToyMachine beat me to it.


Holy crap that sounds epic. I might just pick up the singles of this instead of waiting another 3 months for the trade.
 
#681 is a pretty damn good comic, I have to admit. The problem is that, even if you ignore the "most shocking revelation in 70 years" hype, it just fails to clearly resolve a number of Morrison's plot threads (the most obvious being the
Simon Hurt non-reveal
). Barring the (IMO) unlikely event that #682 and #683 answer most of those questions, I can't really call RIP anything but a disappointment, even a very well-written one.
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I'm actually a bit confused. I always thought that Hurt was the doctor from the isolation experiments in Batman #156.

Was he not?
 

Ephemeris

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
This. Totally. That's why this issue was so fucking badass.
Definitely.
Father_Brain said:
#681 is a pretty damn good comic, I have to admit. The problem is that, even if you ignore the "most shocking revelation in 70 years" hype, it just fails to clearly resolve a number of Morrison's plot threads (the most obvious being the
Simon Hurt non-reveal
). Barring the (IMO) unlikely event that #682 and #683 answer most of those questions, I can't really call RIP anything but a disappointment, even a very well-written one.
Though you may be right, I'm holding on to see if 682 and 683 answer any remaining questions I have before declaring it a disappointment. Personally, I love good villainy (*evil laugh here*) and I got my fix with Hurt.

It had - in my opinion of course - the best strike against Bats since Knightfall. Best use of villain-in-cave since Cain; heck. They turned the batcave into a base. :lol
Best thing about it, unlike Knightfall or Hush, Bats fell farther, but came back harder.

Fave scenes of 681 in chronological order:

1)
"You blinked. I switched the cups. Force of habit."
2)Then the one where he's giving the guy the antidote.
3)Busting out of the grave. No offense to Tony - loved his art - but Lee would have killed it [and also pushed back the release date:lol ].
4) If Hurt=The Devil, then it makes Joker's line even more awesome: "I'm saying adieu. Pleased to meet you - admire your work - but don't. Don't call me servant.
5) Prep-time bitches.
6) Nightwing pose, Jet presumably getting the business.
7) The epilogue.
 

Ephemeris

Member
thetrin said:
I'm actually a bit confused. I always thought that Hurt was the doctor from the isolation experiments in Batman #156.

Was he not?

He could still be Hurt. Or the devil. Or both to be honest.

My bet for a while now has been Mangrove. Looks like both Bats and I were incorrect.


OR WERE WE?
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Ephemeris said:
He could still be Hurt. Or the devil. Or both to be honest.

My bet for a while now has been Mangrove. Looks like both Bats and I were incorrect.


OR WERE WE?

Wait, who is Mangrove Pierce? I was confused when I was reading 681.
 

Ephemeris

Member
Father_Brain said:
Also, I can't buy that
Bruce knew Jet was evil the whole time.
It just invalidates so much of Morrison's own work.

First read interpretation:
"I knew you were evil all along! I never loved you! I only pretended :lol "
Second-reading: "I really really like this woman. It's like, she's too good to be true. Hmmmmmm." Gets emotions in check, then proceeds to pretend like he's still in love. I wouldn't be surprised if he stole the letter
prior to the cave-infiltration.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
About to read it now, but it looks like Morrison will not be coming back to Batman, despite what he has said previously. It's very obvious by the horrible response, that Didio/DC is pushing him off the title:

12. Getting back into the Batman books – just so we have the lineup correct...Denny in December, Faces of Evil in January, and Neil Gaiman and Andy Kubert in February. Is Grant coming back to the main Batman book then?

DD: Grant has so many Batman stories to tell that we have to find an outlet for them, and I’m absolutely sure that we will find one for him.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110826-Didio3.html
 
omg rite said:
About to read it now, but it looks like Morrison will not be coming back to Batman, despite what he has said previously. It's very obvious by the horrible response, that Didio/DC is pushing him off the title:

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/110826-Didio3.html


Damn shame, I agree with Bendis that the big titles need the talisman writers. They are the core of the industry and its in the best interest of the industry that these books are well written. Hopefully this means that Morrison will have time to tackle the multiverse which Didio has apparently been keeping aside for him. This does agree with Morrisons comments earlier in the year where he said that next year he wouldnt be the guy with the high selling books but the guy writing the weird shit at Vertigo. DC is lucky they have him as a exclusive author, it would be a huge blow if he shifted to another publisher.
 
omg rite said:
About to read it now, but it looks like Morrison will not be coming back to Batman, despite what he has said previously. It's very obvious by the horrible response, that Didio/DC is pushing him off the title:

:lol

Oh very obvious. What is it with people who read comics?
 
favouriteflavour said:
Damn shame, I agree with Bendis that the big titles need the talisman writers. They are the core of the industry and its in the best interest of the industry that these books are well written. Hopefully this means that Morrison will have time to tackle the multiverse which Didio has apparently been keeping aside for him. This does agree with Morrisons comments earlier in the year where he said that next year he wouldnt be the guy with the high selling books but the guy writing the weird shit at Vertigo. DC is lucky they have him as a exclusive author, it would be a huge blow if he shifted to another publisher.

He's said many times that he's done with heroes for a long while after Final Crisis.

I guarantee Batman will sell less without Morrison writing it (Gaiman's run notwithstanding). And that's all that matters to DiDio, not the whinging of fanboys who will buy every issue regardless.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
He's said many times that he's done with heroes for a long while after Final Crisis.

I guarantee Batman will sell less without Morrison writing it (Gaiman's run notwithstanding). And that's all that matters to DiDio, not the whinging of fanboys who will buy every issue regardless.

No Morrison on Batman and no Johns on Action Comics could be disasterous for DC next year.
 
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