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[Ahasverus]

As I'm sure I would have said before, my problem is less having an interpretation, but more having that interpretation and still drawing from the well of the character's source material without considering how your interpretation changes things. It isn't that he has a take on Batman and Superman, but that he decides to have that unique 'deconstructed' take and still use elements that belong to different, more traditional depictions of the character - he tries to have his cake and eat it too. He wants a Batman who is nonplussed about killing, and yet he doesn't want a Batman who carries a gun. He wants a Superman who the world has confused feelings towards, and yet

Spoiler

one that is respected enough to be given a military funeral, as a bonafide hero

. Like, do your own thing or don't, Snyder, but I'm not a fan of the resulting mismatch of elements that don't work in the new context the authorial changes Snyder & Co. create.

Your vision is like, weird. I mean, it's obvious the Snyder tone is not for you, that's ok, but then trying to convince people of the way you look at things is kind of pointless.

Where you see mismatching, others see defined character traits, where you see authorial changes, the film presents you development. Have you seen the UC? Because it sounds like you haven't. And even if you haven't, some of your criticism is either at the very foundation of the work that can't be changed or argued with (Snyder's choices) or some self induced conflicts. The movie now, save for one or two things, makes sense on itself. That's just a fact.

Hell, Batman does carry a gun in the Knightmare just as you want, it's the visual way the movie says "See, this is where he's going if things go to hell". See? You're creating the movie self-conflict in your head.

I say either try to understand the work on its own terms or leave it altogether, sometimes things are not for you, stop torturing youself.

 

[VanWinkle]

They are very, very bad shows.

But yes, I like stuff. I just usually see it as important as disliking stuff. Meaning, not very.

No, they're really not. I don't like Arrow much at all, but I wouldn't outright say it's a "very, very bad show." And Flash is overall one of the best superhero TV shows ever.

 

[guek]

Sounds like you just want to watch and sit through crappy movies/games/comics to hate on them online.

That 3 hour runtime of UC BvS could instead be used to watch two reasonably good movies and you won't have to spend hours trying to tell people how much you don't like this Batman/Superman.

Veelk likes to talk. It is known. At least he tries not to talk from ignorance.

 

[Dominator]

Curiousity, mostly, see how much it improved. To refresh my memory of it for the purposes of debating, since I've only seen it once while very tired.

But mostly, I've very rarely not watched something just because I didn't like it. My personal enjoyment is such an unimportant factor when it comes to viewing art of any kind, whether it's movies, tv, comics, books, etc. Do you know how long I stuck with Arrow before finally throwing in the towel? I think it was close to 80 episodes. In addition to the rest of the arrowverse. Do you know from when I hated the Arrow show? Episode 1. Maybe it was episode 3 before I hated Arrow more than I ever hated BvS. And there hasn't been a single episode in either Arrow, Flash or anything that I can say is good. I'm also currently reading the Wheel of Time series, which is 14 books of pure, unmitigated bullshit. And I've basically played every god of war game atleast once, the main trilogy twice, and I'm positive an action game fan like yourself saw atleast one of my posts on GoW and know my feelings on that series. I can provide links if you don't.

So yeah. Asking why I watch something if I hate it is like asking why do fish swim if cars produce carbon monoxide. Those things are barely, if at all, related for me.

I can't possibly comprehend the colossal waste of time on watching/playing/doing things you don't enjoy. Just cause it's "art" doesn't mean you have to see/view it. I just don't understand your rationale for it.

EDIT: Your post below sheds some light, and I guess if that's what you enjoy doing then I understand. I just would find it such a time sink for myself.

 

[Veelk]

Sounds like you just want to watch and sit through crappy movies/games/comics to hate on them online.

That 3 hour runtime of UC BvS could instead be used to watch two reasonably good movies and you won't have to spend hours trying to tell people how much you don't like this Batman/Superman.

*shrug*

I like critically dissecting art. It's my thing. For those purposes, it doesn't much matter if the thing is good or bad. You could argue I tend toward dissecting the bad stuff, but that's generally because it's always easier to do so. Bad things are often less well put together by definition. I've done analysis on really good things as well though. Last of Us, Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Breaking Bad, Captain America: Civil War.

It's less about being good or bad than about being interesting, in some way.

No, they're really not. I don't like Arrow much at all, but I wouldn't outright say it's a "very, very bad show." And Flash is overall one of the best superhero TV shows ever.

No, they're both awful. I would easily put Arrow as one of the worst things I've ever sat through. Flash is marginally better, but still god awful. It blows my mind how people accept the awful acting, the canned dialogue, the worldbuilding so incosnistent it can literally break it's own rules within the same scene, the 3 part plot structure that repeats endlessly, and the often...questionable depiction of morality. The only good thing to come out of either of those shows is the OnBenchPress synopsis, whose job to parody the seires is so easy, that half the time he doesn't even need to make jokes and instead just shows the events of the episode as they happen.

They are fucking putrid and the single worst examples of superhero shows and storytelling in general I can think of. But this isn't the thread to debate that.

I can't possibly comprehend the colossal waste of time on watching/playing/doing things you don't enjoy. Just cause it's "art" doesn't mean you have to see/view it. I just don't understand your rationale for it.

That's okay, most can't either.

 

[Ahasverus]

*shrug*

Just go and watch it, close neogaf already lol

 

[shoreu]

It's a callback to 911. Some people didn't abandon the buildings until ordered in fear for their jobs.

Yeah I thought of this. I remembered hearing that the boss ordered them back to work

 

[Dahbomb]

Veelk likes to talk. It is known. At least he tries not to talk from ignorance.

Man I know who he is, we have known each other for years. I used to make posts longer than him, this isn't surprising stuff to me. What's surprising is how much effort one can put into something they dislike greatly.

Like the stuff I dislike I just don't talk about much past my initial review. BvS is probably one of the few exceptions because this movie is just FASCINATING to me on so many levels (not all for good things mind you). You aren't going to see me in a Dynasty Warrior threads talking about how bad the game play mechanics are in those games.

 

[BadAss2961]

Veelk likes to talk. It is known. At least he tries not to talk from ignorance.

Going HAM in the Ultimate Cut thread... Has not seen Ultimate Cut.

Just saying. lol

 

[Alienous]

Your vision is like, weird. I mean, it's obvious the Snyder tone is not for you, that's ok, but then trying to convince people of the way you look at things is kind of pointless.

Where you see mismatching, others see defined character traits, where you see authorial changes, the film presents you development. Have you seen the UC? Because it sounds like you haven't. And even if you haven't, some of your criticism is either at the very foundation of the work that can't be changed or argued with (Snyder's choices) or some self induced conflicts. The movie now, save for one or two things, makes sense on itself. That's just a fact.

Hell, Batman does carry a gun in the Knightmare just as you want, it's the visual way the movie says "See, this is where he's going if things go to hell". See? You're creating the movie self-conflict in your head.

I say either try to understand the work on its own terms or leave it altogether, sometimes things are not for you, stop torturing youself.

I'm a fan of Batman carrying a gun during Knightmare. They're showing me a Batman who has gotten to that point; sure Snyder, I'll see the story you want to tell.

It's when he isn't telling his story, but borrowing from the comics, that I'm not such a fan. Certain elements of the character just don't work in light of those authorial changes - like non-Knightmare Batman being so liberal about killing, but opting not to carry lethal devices. 'Nope, only when I'm in a vehicle'. What? It's that kind of thing that results from changing only certain elements without consideration to how it impacts the whole.

And yeah, my complaints are directed towards the foundations of the work, my point being the my problems with the movie extend far beyond editing choices. The UC couldn't fix that, so I think my complaint remains justified.

Maybe it isn't for me. Ok. But when discussion relating to it is brought up I'll still make the point.

 

[Dahbomb]

Anyone know who Jena Malone's character is supposed to be? They don't say anything in the UC either, I was wondering if anyone knew. Seems like it could be Barbara Gordon but it's not confirmed anywhere.

 

[Veelk]

Veelk likes to talk. It is known. At least he tries not to talk from ignorance.

And mostly succeeds, I would hope.

Going HAM in the Ultimate Cut thread... Has not seen Ultimate Cut.

Just saying. lol

Most of the stuff I addressed hasn't changed from the TC from what I've read.

 

[Ahasverus]

Anyone know who Jena Malone's character is supposed to be? They don't say anything in the UC either, I was wondering if anyone knew. Seems like it could be Barbara Gordon but it's not confirmed anywhere.

Jenet Klayburn, director of forensics in STAR labs. A minor character from the 70's.

 

[Dahbomb]

Jenet Klayburn, director of forensics in STAR labs. A minor character from the 70's.

Man WB has some major casting such a known actor for such a minor role.

Most of the stuff I addressed hasn't changed from the TC from what I've read.

It's not.

Briefly what has been improved in the TC is:

*More Clark investigation scenes and better motivation for taking on Batman.
*More Luthor machinations to show how much he was in control for the first 2/3rds of the movie.
*Much more cohesive and understandable African subplot.
*More Lois investigation and how she is able to piece together Luthor's plans.
*Some general plot holes covered.
*Vastly superior editing and flow.


Nothing related to Batman/Bruce has been improved in the TC except for maybe the whole Bat branding thing. The dream sequences and JL tie-ins are still bad. The final act still has the awfully choreographed Batman/Superman fight, the awkward underwater kryptonite sequence and the Doomsday CGI fest. It's the first two acts that are improved the most especially leading to the build up of the Senate bombing.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Just finished Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Ultimate Edition, Deluxe Extended Master Cut.

Everything about this was a travesty. Cartoonish fight scenes, horrific pacing, and laughable dialogue. There are like three red herring stories going on at once, and none of them end up having any bearing on where things end up. At least they managed to squeeze in completely unrelated promos for upcoming DC movies in this three hour film. Don't know how they managed but they did.

So instead of focusing on all the negatives, which to be fair is almost everything, here's what I liked. Very light spoilers, nothing you haven't seen in the previews.

1) Wonder Woman. The actress is as wooden as they come and I have no idea how they're going to do a full film with her, but she tears up the action sequences. It's 90% CGI but I geeked out for her. Then she'd deliver a line and I'd hate myself.

2) Questioning the role of "godlike" beings living amongst us. They tripped all over this as the film progressed, but the early imagery was decent.

3) Batman doing Crossfit.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Does Jenet klyburn have more screen time than jimmy olsen

 

[Ahasverus]

Does Jenet klyburn have more screen time than jimmy olsen

No.

 

[Ushay]

What's the run time on this?

 

[Alienous]

No.

When considering screen time are you counting the time Jimmy spends as

Spoiler

a burned, faceless corpse

, or no?

 

[VanWinkle]

When considering screen time are you counting the time Jimmy spends as

Spoiler

a burned, faceless corpse

, or no?

Spoiler

I don't think we see him like that.

 

[Ahasverus]

What's the run time on this?

2:50 hrs without credits.

When considering screen time are you counting the time Jimmy spends as

Spoiler

a burned, faceless corpse

, or no?

He's not burned, his corpse is not shown and he still has more screentime than the 3 seconds of Jena Malone, but go ahead and keep making things up to sustain your wacky arguments though.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Holy crap just saw this movie for the first time. I had really low expectations and boy I was not prepared. One of the worst movies I've seen in a long time. No point in discussing the issues since I'm sure it's been done to death.

Avoid like the plague!!!

 

[atr0cious]

I don't think you know what it means for something to be fetishized.

It doesn't mean "Depict as a moral postiive"

And yet you can't put forth anything to support your claim other than empty words. What's irrational about his filmmaking, where violence is some detriment and overrides what messages he puts forth?

 

[Vyer]

As I'm sure I would have said before, my problem is less having an interpretation, but more having that interpretation and still drawing from the well of the character's source material without considering how your interpretation changes things. It isn't that he has a take on Batman and Superman, but that he decides to have that unique 'deconstructed' take and still use elements that belong to different, more traditional depictions of the character - he tries to have his cake and eat it too. He wants a Batman who is nonplussed about killing, and yet he doesn't want a Batman who carries a gun. He wants a Superman who the world has confused feelings towards, and yet

Spoiler

one that is respected enough to be given a military funeral, as a bonafide hero

. Like, do your own thing or don't, Snyder, but I'm not a fan of the resulting mismatch of elements that don't work in the new context the authorial changes Snyder & Co. create.

None of those things is a mismatch really, particularly the second as

Spoiler

the world watching him sacrifice himself to save them would probably settle a lot of those 'confused' feelings.

.

I disagree with a lot of what Veelk is saying here, but he's absolutely right that artists should not be held to some arbitrary set of rules when creating their versions of these characters.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

I could see this being a problem if it was like Burton Batman, as in the added bits of killing and cool violence is just what he does. But Batman is unhinged in BvS. There's a story behind his 'new rules', but they're only temporary. A one movie thing where Snyder indulges a bit while he has the chance.

The problem with the story behind his rules is that it's all implied but never actually stated. While that may be a good thing, it's a horrendous way to bring up a new Batman to audiences.

 

[Veelk]

And yet you can't put forth anything to support your claim other than empty words. What's irrational about his filmmaking, where violence is some detriment and overrides what messages he puts forth?

My mistake. Allow me to construct me argument.

Fetishize, definition 1.


On the film:

Guys the music in this still kills me. That Dada-DAH, Dada-DAH hilarity that is Lex Luthor's theme is like it's a parody of an evil theme, especially when he's doing nothing more remarkable than walking around. I totally forgot how I laughed my ass off at it in the theater. It's perfeclty positioned against the jellybean scene with the senator too.

 

[atr0cious]

The problem with the story behind his rules is that it's all implied but never actually stated. While that may be a good thing, it's a horrendous way to bring up a new Batman to audiences.

Batman narrates the beginning dream, talking about himself,"golden absolutes." Jeremy irons says it when they're watching footage of zod and Clark fight. "18 months ago." He's changed.

My mistake. Allow me to construct me argument.

Fetishize, definition 1.

Where's the proof in Snyder's work that it's irrational? Don't use words if you're not gonna use the definition. You sound like you're arguing some puritanical angle, where violence can't be shown for what it is.

 

[Mariolee]

Finally watched the Ultimate Cut. I liked it. Plot holes here and there and some massive script problems, but darn entertaining and some amazing scenes.

I would advise that people should watch the Ultimate Cut if you'd like to further discuss it in the thread, or else you're just talking from hearsay.

 

[Alienous]

Guys the music in the still kills me. That Dada-DAH, Dada-DAH hilarity that is Lex Luthor's theme is like it's a parody of an evil theme, especially when he's doing nothing more remarkable than walking around. I totally forgot how I laughed my ass off at it in the theater. It's perfeclty positioned against the jellybean scene with the senator too.

Zimmer slept through this movie.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Batman narrates the beginning dream, talking about himself,"golden absolutes." Jeremy irons says it when they're watching footage of them fight. "18 months ago." He's changed.

You do realize what "implied but not stated" means? All you mentioned are signs that something has changed, but the movie never states the extent that Batman has changed, or what caused him to change. For all we know, it could be

Spoiler

Jason Todd's death, or the death of another close friend

, or maybe he's gotten sick and tired of criminals getting ahead while he struggles to send them to jail, or maybe he's realized that jail does nothing to prevent recidivism, so he opts for a harsher way of dealing with crime.

This is why starting a movie with a changed Batman without having context, and not allowing for one movie to build up Batman's arc are colossal mistakes.

None of those things is a mismatch really, particularly the second as

Spoiler

the world watching him sacrifice himself to save them would probably settle a lot of those 'confused' feelings.

.

I disagree with a lot of what Veelk is saying here, but he's absolutely right that artists should not be held to some arbitrary set of rules when creating their versions of these characters.

It is a mismatch, how do you reconcile that a good bunch of people voiced their skepticism of Superman and now feeling like they respect him? It's a plot point that goes from A to C without dealing with B first. Sure it's one avenue, but I think the same crowd that Snyder created, would be happy that a powerful being is dead so no more issues will arise.

 

[Veelk]

Where's the proof in Snyder's work that it's irrational? Don't use words if you're not gonna use the definition. You sound like you're arguing some puritanical angle, where violence can't be shown for what it is.

...yeah, sure that's exactly what it is.

Okay, folks, let no one ever say I can't let an argument go if it gets too silly.

Zimmer slept through this movie.

You know, people have often said how he started phoning stuff in by TDKR, which I disagreed with completely. I always felt that even supposing that wasn't trying, he put out some great music for that movie. It was repeated with MoS, where I felt the complaints were a little more justified, but I still found some of those tracks to be excellent.

This is the first bad soundtrack of his that I know of. It's straight up comical at points.

 

[Lord Virgin]

My mistake. Allow me to construct me argument.

Fetishize, definition 1.


On the film:

Guys the music in this still kills me. That Dada-DAH, Dada-DAH hilarity that is Lex Luthor's theme is like it's a parody of an evil theme, especially when he's doing nothing more remarkable than walking around. I totally forgot how I laughed my ass off at it in the theater. It's perfeclty positioned against the jellybean scene with the senator too.

Zimmer slept through this movie.

I will fight the both of you, how dare you people!

Zimmer <3

 

[Dahbomb]

Watching the UC makes the 3rd act such a god damn shame.

First act starts with some amazing sequences (the prologue and the Metropolis scene) then starts a slow burn into the senate hearing which is THE pivotal moment of the movie. The pieces move into place as laid out by Luthor all the while Batman is developing his own plan to kill Superman. Then the bombing happens and Batman goes full steam ahead into the prep time scene. Even right before that you see Alfred watching the news on television and getting legit shook not because the bombing took place... because he knows Bruce is about to go hunting (this was a new scene in the UC).

And then every thing right after that prep scene is just mediocre city starting it off with that pace halting scene of Bruce looking at his monitor with all the JL stuff. Movie just never recovers from that spot, it needed an amazing final act to make all the previous build worthwhile.

 

[Chiggs]

Just finished it. Still really enjoyed it. Extra footage only helps.

Gal Gadot is beautiful.

 

[IconGrist]

Holy crap just saw this movie for the first time. I had really low expectations and boy I was not prepared. One of the worst movies I've seen in a long time. No point in discussing the issues since I'm sure it's been done to death.

Avoid like the plague!!!

I have no issue with you disliking the film but this last bit here is kind of pointless to another user without some sort of reference. If the point is to steer people away who have similar tastes as you how are they supposed to know what those are?

 

[Atomic Odin]

I cannot believe they left out the whole

Spoiler

lying witness arc in the TC

, it completely flips the context of the dialog in the hearing scene & provides so much coherence. What were they thinking?

Same with the scene succeeding it,

Spoiler

Supes looking around at the injured/dead people, feeling helpless in a way that he hasn't felt

gives more credence to his words with Lois on the balcony & his subsequent exile.

So many other little changes which elevate the plot, should never have been butchered this.

edit: jeez forgot to add spoiler tags in excitement, forgive me

 

[Tragicomedy]

I have no issue with you disliking the film but this last bit here is kind of pointless to another user without some sort of reference. If the point is to steer people away who have similar tastes as you how are they supposed to know what those are?

I believe he was saying the movie was shit and people should avoid it. Which is a perfectly acceptable response when discussing media on GAF.

I don't believe he was "deconstructing" all opinions of the film down into a simple binary code, where everyone will leave with the same impression.

I cannot believe they left out the whole lying witness arc in the TC, it completely flips the context of the dialog in the hearing scene & provides so much coherence. What were they thinking?

Same with the scene succeeding it, Supes looking around at the injured/dead people, feeling helpless in a way that he hasn't felt gives more credence to his words with Lois on the balcony & his subsequent exile.

So many other little changes which elevate the plot, should never have been butchered this.

Never saw the theatrical cut, so take this for what it's worth, but...this is now a three hour film. Snyder couldn't put that out in theaters. Stuff had to go. Unfortunately, it sounds like he dropped key plot elements in order to preserve two rather dull CGI battles that dragged on forever.

 

[BadAss2961]

The problem with the story behind his rules is that it's all implied but never actually stated. While that may be a good thing, it's a horrendous way to bring up a new Batman to audiences.

It was a good thing to keep it understated imo. Not a bad way to bring in a new Batman either since everyone is already familiar with the character. After all, he was the most praised part of the film next to Wonder Woman... Even most who didn't like the film liked Batman.

 

[atr0cious]

...yeah, sure that's exactly what it is.

Okay, folks, let no one ever say I can't let an argument go if it gets too silly.

So all those words and you couldn't even back up your points. A critic that can't put in the work to connect their points is wasting everybody's time.

You do realize what "implied but not stated" means? All you mentioned are signs that something has changed, but the movie never states the extent that Batman has changed, or what caused him to change. For all we know

The change is superman appears. Literally. It's the entire premise put forth in suicide squads trailer. The dcu is all about how Clark is the catalyst for escalation. The red capes are coming.

 

[Vyer]

It is a mismatch, how do you reconcile that a good bunch of people voiced their skepticism of Superman and now feeling like they respect him? It's a plot point that goes from A to C without dealing with B first. Sure it's one avenue, but I think the same crowd that Snyder created, would be happy that a powerful being is dead so no more issues will arise.

what is a 'good bunch of people'? It's not like we're dealing in hard numbers or majority rules here. There's some people who are 'unsure' enough to spray paint a statue and there's enough people who feel the other way to have a statue erected in the first place.

There's not really anything there to support the idea that the world at large would reject the notion of

Spoiler

honoring the super powered being that just sacrificed himself to save them

.

 

[Veelk]

So all those words and you couldn't even back up your points. A critic that can't put in the work to connect their points is wasting everybody's time.

See how I'm not taking the bait, everybody? I think I've matured.

 

[IconGrist]

I believe he was saying the movie was shit and people should avoid it. Which is a perfectly acceptable response when discussing media on GAF.

I don't believe he was "deconstructing" all opinions of the film down into a simple binary code, where everyone will leave with the same impression.

Which is a blanket statement that holds no value. It's just as bad as posting, "Guys this movie is fuckin' awesome! Buy immediately!" With no frame of reference to that user's taste it's a worthless thing to say. You don't have to post a deep analysis but a couple points of "this is what I liked/didn't like" is far more useful to people.

 

[Dahbomb]

I cannot believe they left out the whole

Spoiler

lying witness arc in the TC

, it completely flips the context of the dialog in the hearing scene & provides so much coherence. What were they thinking?

Same with the scene succeeding it,

Spoiler

Supes looking around at the injured/dead people, feeling helpless in a way that he hasn't felt

gives more credence to his words with Lois on the balcony & his subsequent exile.

So many other little changes which elevate the plot, should never have been butchered this.

edit: jeez forgot to add spoiler tags in excitement, forgive me

Man even with all those cuts the TC was a lumbering behemoth of a movie with way too many characters and side plots. WB probably got hella nervous at that runtime and started chopping away at the side stuff.

 

[SJRB]

The Ultimate Edition is SO MUCH better than the theatrical cut. It just blows my mind how they fucked up the Africa / witness scene so much in the theatrical cut.

When at the hearing the senator says "today is a day for truth" she wasn't talking about Superman's actions, she was planning to out Lex Luthor and his evil scheme. This completely changes the context of the entire capitol explosion and aftermath.

Not to mention more Lois doing actually useful stuff, more Clark investigating the Batman, more more more.

Nobody should ever watch the TC again.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Which is a blanket statement that holds no value. It's just as bad as posting, "Guys this movie is fuckin' awesome! Buy immediately!" With no frame of reference to that user's taste it's a worthless thing to say. You don't have to post a deep analysis but a couple points of "this is what I liked/didn't like" is far more useful to people.

If I went through this thread with a fine tooth comb and quoted every blanket statement in favor of against this movie, GAF would crash.

It sounds like you either really like this movie, or want to make sure people at least five it a shot. Which is fine in either case. But it's equally fine for him to say it's shit and should be avoided. He doesn't have to substantiate good opinion and I don't believe he was entering into a debate.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah TC Holly Hunter and UC Holly Hunter are painted very differently.

UC Holly Hunter was one of the good guys who was on to Lex Luthor in her final moments and wasn't getting intimidated by Luthor.

TC Holly Hunter seemed like one of those politicians who wanted to make Superman out to be some sort of scapegoat for an international incident.

 

[atr0cious]

See how I'm not taking the bait, everybody? I think I've matured.

What bait? I asked you to prove a point and now you deflect. What a childish maneuver. If you can't prove that he fetishizes violence in his work other than quoting monty python, why even bring it up?

Still laughing you think mcu using "tactics" isn't fetishization with the aforementioned terrorist gun.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Nobody should ever watch the TC again.

Don't worry, I doubt most people who watched the film will ever watch it again.

 

[Atomic Odin]

Man even with all those cuts the TC was a lumbering behemoth of a movie with way too many characters and side plots. WB probably got hella nervous at that runtime and started chopping away at the side stuff.

Suits meddling in is nothing new & its somewhat understandable that they were a bit iffy about the runtime but still it doesn't absolve them of the butchery (specifically the butchery of key elements) when we now know that the original material was pretty good.

The Ultimate Edition is SO MUCH better than the theatrical cut. It just blows my mind how they fucked up the Africa / witness scene so much in the theatrical cut.

When at the hearing the senator says "today is a day for truth" she wasn't talking about Superman's actions, she was planning to out Lex Luthor and his evil scheme. This completely changes the context of the entire capitol explosion and aftermath.

Not to mention more Lois doing actually useful stuff, more Clark investigating the Batman, more more more.

Nobody should ever watch the TC again.

Also I can't remember if the line "this committee won't tolerate lies" was in the TC or not but if it was then its staggering how out of context it was made to look.

 

[SJRB]

Don't worry, I doubt most people who watched the film will ever watch it again.

Eh, okay? Their loss.