Haha I don't think the shakey cam is a good choice there either but the scene between him an Pa Kent is instructive to the character
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Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)
- Thread starter Ahasverus
- Start date
Haha I don't think the shakey cam is a good choice there either but the scene between him an Pa Kent is instructive to the character
I like it if only for "while I ate my hero cake the horses drowned".
That sentence needs to appear more often. It should be the dialogue equivalent of a Wilhelm scream.
Why does Superman, walks by its feet to the top of a mountain and talks to a dead guy in the middle of the movie?
Because emotions? Thats stupid. I would cut that. Simple.
But thats not the matter of my post.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
OMG, TDKR is a masterpiece compared to this. That' like comparing Guardians of the Galaxy to Green Lantern!!!
Eh, I have to agree it was not a good scene, at least not the way it was done in the movie. I’m honestly still not sure if it was a dream sequence or real? If it was a dream then it was horribly transitioned as such, but if it was a real scene then yeah I agree it was stupid and out of place.
I disagree. It ties to the first movie nicely. He didn't have to work on the fishing boat or the restaurant but he did it anyway to find himself and learn about the world. Same here. He's gathering his thoughts. At the end of it he came to terms (via a discussion with his father's force ghost) that he may be a super man but he's not a perfect man, he's not capable of being all things to all people. Even great, pure actions have consequences. So all you can do is do your best and what you feel is right. Makes the character much more interesting.
A trek up the mountain may be a bit much but it works.
I don't know why does Peter Parker talk to a dead uncle Ben in Spider-Man 2? Maybe he used to hike to that spot with his father? Maybe it's the beginnings of dementia. Dunno buts it's not like heroes being visited by dead people is a new phenomenon in these movies.
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
For all this ''Yeah I understand it, it is just dumb'' people who dislike the movie certainly have a lot of questions about certain things they clearly did not understand and were pretty clear.
It was a hallucination (his father being there) and gave us a much needed Clark Kent moment. The person above me already explained the point of the scene. ''Why is he not flying?'' Seriously? Are we going to take that route?
It was a hallucination (his father being there) and gave us a much needed Clark Kent moment. The person above me already explained the point of the scene. ''Why is he not flying?'' Seriously? Are we going to take that route?
He does things the hard way. To help him think and keep himself grounded
Superman does stuff like this all the time
Even the Theatrical cut of BvS is better than TDKR
I love how all the extra Clark Kent stuff actually lifts him up to being a real character In the film. The theatrical cut treats Superman more like a force of nature, he's just there and everyone else reacts to him. The Ultimate cut humanizes him, he's conflicted, he wants to do the right thing, to help, but he doesn't know what he should do. The fact that his own moral dilemma is mirrored in his investigation of Batman, who is facing the same criticisms but in a much smaller scale is a really nice touch. It's insane that they cut so much out of the movie.
Too bad though, as much as I absolutely loved the third act with doomsday, it's still the weakest part of the movie by far.
I love this movie, and can't wait to double dip when the blu Ray comes out. I think it's my favorite DC movie right under Batman Begins.
Too bad though, as much as I absolutely loved the third act with doomsday, it's still the weakest part of the movie by far.
I love this movie, and can't wait to double dip when the blu Ray comes out. I think it's my favorite DC movie right under Batman Begins.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Ha!! GAF, why you so cray cray??
I thought the scene was fitting and a bit touching. As Koyuga mentioned, it does help humanize Superman, I really liked him in the movie.Somehow, this cut makes the movie even more laughably.
I also noticed some very amateurish sfx, Specially at this scene:
A simple scene and they cant even get the shaky camera tracking and the green screen right. Also this whole scene with pa Kent its just stupid.
I'm looking foward to rewatch this while drunk with my friends tho.
TDKR, but BvS is still a worthwhile if overlong, bleak film.
Hey man, sometimes Superman just needs to retreat to he fortress of solitude and collect his thoughts. Not that he has a fortress in these movies, but it's the same concept.
He walks all over the world in MoS. I'd think he looks at flying as a Superman thing, and in that scene, he wasn't being Superman.
Dead loves Snyder's films and regularly shits on Nolan, that's not that surprising of an opinion from him
No bro... I hate Bateman he's a horrible depiction of the character and gets almost nothing right. But I cannot agree
BvS is still a good ass movie to me tho
Hey, I really liked Interstellar and have come back around on TDK!He walks all over the world in MoS. I'd think he looks at flying as a Superman thing, and in that scene, he wasn't being Superman.
Dead loves Snyder's films and regularly shits on Nolan, that's not that surprising of an opinion from him
No saving rises though.
but rises has no redeeming parts
Yeah I liked that mirroring, too. Bats is struggling with booze, his effectiveness ("criminals grow like weeds"), his age, legacy, etc. Both trying to figure out their place in the world.
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Rises had Bane though, dude was a quote machine. Loved it.
But I'd say BvS>all Nolan Batflicks. I love Nolan, but I also love what Snyder is doing with these movies. Right up my alley.
Now I know how it feels.
I can see where you're coming from, but TDK is just a timeless piece of cinema. BvS feels like carrying its spirit at least.
You are right, Its not.
And I wont judge if its emotional or not. Good for you all like it. But we already know beeing superman its hard, and he misses his father. And on top of it its poorly executed and unnecessary.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
BvS is the better film. TDKR only has Bane going for it, the rest of the movie is completely disposable.
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
How about this though (I enjoyed TDKR regardless): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjffIi2Pl7M
That score. My God am I going to miss Zimmer, Junkie XL is fine I guess but he ain't Zimmer.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I was being a little facetious, but overall that movie was a gigantic letdown.
Zack Snyder talking about the Ultimate Cut after the theatrical release makes a lot more sense now.
BadAss2961
Member
It's better than Begins, which became overrated around here as the years went by. TDK contrarians and TDKR haters.
I watched the theatrical cut in an over crowded theatre with people arriving late and blinding the audience with their phone lights to find their seats. That said, the Ultimate Cut is better but possible worse off for it. Both cuts of the film are overly bloated and drawn out.
I really enjoy both Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck's performances, most of the cinematography is gorgeous but overall the story is a little messy to say the least.
I like the film, but it isn't perfect - the Ultimate Cut fills in some blank spaces but some of the characters it helps to flesh out could have been cut all together and others could have been considerably reduced to form a more cohesive story.
I really enjoy both Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck's performances, most of the cinematography is gorgeous but overall the story is a little messy to say the least.
I like the film, but it isn't perfect - the Ultimate Cut fills in some blank spaces but some of the characters it helps to flesh out could have been cut all together and others could have been considerably reduced to form a more cohesive story.
PeterLegend
Member
The movie was difficult to watch, the amateur film editing without any scene transition was jarring and noticeable. Superman doesn't use guns but apparently he killed people with guns. Why does Lex hate superman? He never met him and superman never interferred with his business. The big showdown between batman and superman was a let down, then the Martha and spear debacle. Then the ending was a waste, why introduce it so soon before the Justicr League movie.
5/10 at best, with no rewatchability
5/10 at best, with no rewatchability
Have you seen the Ultimate Cut? There are more scene transitions, and the mercenaries in Africa
use a flamethrower on the combatants they kill
set ablaze, perhaps with heat vision
Also
Lex hates Superman because he's viewed by the public as a God figure, and Lex wants to disprove that, due to hating the idea of God when God didn't intervene in his dad beating him
Yup, Bats is a straight up mass murderer in BvS.
No he isn't, he killed 12 armored thugs, at most. That's 40 less than Bale.
This is cool (Spoiler for those who haven't seen it)
No he isn't, he killed 12 armored thugs, at most. That's 40 less than Bale.
This is cool (Spoiler for those who haven't seen it)
But Bale didn't murder them it was just manslaughter or accident or something! I kinda get the feeling Snyder must be like did you lot watch the previous films? Why are you giving him shit for his body count when 1) there's numerous precedent set in the comics for Batman to kill2) there are numerous examples on film of Batman killing
I think the only live action Batman movie where Batman doesn't kill someone or cause the death of someone is Batman &Robin. Even the Adam West Batman has a bodycount. Batman 89 literally strapped a bomb on a dude and smiled. People making a big deal out of this really are being petty.
I mean context is pretty important when comparing this depiction to the Nolan movies. The central moral conflict in Batman Begins is Bruce's struggle with revenge and justice. His growth and development as a character rests entirely on this question and he learns that revenge is poison and he is not an amoral vigilante.
In regards to the whole kill debate, I have yet to see a live action superhero story that tackles the concept well. By which I mean, just as a compelling story. Daredevil did it okay with the first season, but then the second scene has it as an even more central theme and it wasn't as good.
I think the best adaptation of the concept was Red Hood. He was all vicious with it, and in some ways, his ideals made sense, but Batman said that once you start down that road, it's hard not to get lost. Red Hood scoffs at the prospect. In his mind, it's very easy to maintain control and only kill those who 'deserve it', like the joker. He wasn't thinking Batman should kill Two face or Penguin or every rogue he has. Just joker, who so openly and unrepentently evil. So he then offers Batman the ultimatum. He either kills him, Jason, by shooting him right in the face, or he will kill the Joker. Batman rejects his ultimatum, and that enrages Jason more....so he points a the gun at Batman. It was a really intense moment and I don't think in most cases Jason would have pulled the trigger, but in that moment of his outrage of what he sees as a perversion of justice, he's was going to kill Batman, not Joker, for the crime of not playing his game. It didn't portray either view point as right or wrong, but it did depict embracing the attitude of casual killing as something extremely dangerous, and I think that much is pretty true.
I think the best adaptation of the concept was Red Hood. He was all vicious with it, and in some ways, his ideals made sense, but Batman said that once you start down that road, it's hard not to get lost. Red Hood scoffs at the prospect. In his mind, it's very easy to maintain control and only kill those who 'deserve it', like the joker. He wasn't thinking Batman should kill Two face or Penguin or every rogue he has. Just joker, who so openly and unrepentently evil. So he then offers Batman the ultimatum. He either kills him, Jason, by shooting him right in the face, or he will kill the Joker. Batman rejects his ultimatum, and that enrages Jason more....so he points a the gun at Batman. It was a really intense moment and I don't think in most cases Jason would have pulled the trigger, but in that moment of his outrage of what he sees as a perversion of justice, he's was going to kill Batman, not Joker, for the crime of not playing his game. It didn't portray either view point as right or wrong, but it did depict embracing the attitude of casual killing as something extremely dangerous, and I think that much is pretty true.
It's a good story but still falls apart under scrutiny. You don't kill Joker so you put him away. Then he escapes again and kills more innocent people. Catch him. Put him away. Escapes. More people die. The police have proven continuously incapable of handling Joker in any capacity. It makes Batman look like a fool. Any of the JL really. Except Diana because she will kill in a heartbeat.
No, it's more that comic book logic falls apart under scrutiny. I mean, do you know what would happen if batman did, in fact, kill him?
He'd come back. Probably in the same amount of time it'd take him to escape prison again. That's what makes trying to tackle the comic book issue of killing somewhat pointless. There is no way of making him permanently gone. There's nothing Batman can do. A younger version of him will time travel to the present. A portal to a parallel earth will open. He will rise as a zombie and then be cured of his undeadness. Satan will just let him literally walk straight out of hell. That's how comics work. He could fire the joker into the sun on a rocket, and he'd tap his shoulder the next scene, having survived through some contrivance.
But the theme of the story itself doesn't fall apart. The theme is that killing in anger is a dangerous thing. And it is.
So why did he keep killing in the Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises?
We've had this discussion before.
"Because context. He is willing to kill, but avoids it where possible"
To which the response is
"BUT IT"S STILL KILLING, SO IT'S TOTALLY THE SAME THING"
The difference is that Batman, even as he does it, cares about life. In all 3 films in the Nolan series, his value and faith in people is a prominent theme. BvS Batman does not give a shit and kills out of convenience rather than necessity. And that makes them very separate characters.
The theme on its own is fine, sure, but these characters exist in such a way that their history actively promotes their own hypocrisy. Especially given the freedom in the writing format. This is the same character that later on down the line shoots Darkseid at point blank range with the intent to kill.
It seems like he refuses to kill the joker to satisfy his own ego. Like Batman could slit his throat with a batarang/ disembowel him with his bat gauntlets/ run him over with a batmobile etc etc and that could save 100s of lives.
This is literally nothing resembling to what was presented in that story. I'm sure there are stories where that is implied, but it wasn't in any way in Under the Red Hood.
Yes....because he's been pushed into it via an extreme situation.
Feel free to criticize the comic book format, it's very limiting in many ways, but it's not any kind of hypocrisy to make a decision you would not make in most other situations.
The only superfluous killing in BvS that I saw was when he dragged that one car with his winch. That was just plain overkill, they were clearly already incapacitated. Just another face palming example of Snyder wanting to do something because it looks cool.
However, there's a lot more dissonance in the Nolan trilogy simply because Bruce spends so much time talking about how he has one rule and he won't cross it, and yet he clearly does multiple times. Snyder's Bruce never talks about rules.
Didn't see the theatrical cut but I thought this was a good movie that had the potential to be great.
Overall the film didn't achieve enough to warrant three hours. I'm confident there's over half an hour to be cut and written out in there somewhere that'd produce a better film, I guess the theatrical cut just didn't do it well.
The whole Africa plot and Clark's journalism took up too much screen time for the very basic plot points they covered. Stuff like the prison shanking scene could have been one line of dialogue in another scene (it basically was). And it felt like there were too many Lois and Clark emotional scenes that never got to the point.
My big disappointment was that the action, while good and a shitload better than other batman movies, wasn't as good as the trailer had me anticipating.
I didn't mind the set up moments for the next movies, it was pretty obvious what they were and that further explanation would come in future movies. I didn't feel there were any plot holes besides the typical mild contrivances that are in most all action films. Everything made sense besides what was left to be explained next time. Character motivations all worked, I liked them all, including Lex.
Overall the film didn't achieve enough to warrant three hours. I'm confident there's over half an hour to be cut and written out in there somewhere that'd produce a better film, I guess the theatrical cut just didn't do it well.
The whole Africa plot and Clark's journalism took up too much screen time for the very basic plot points they covered. Stuff like the prison shanking scene could have been one line of dialogue in another scene (it basically was). And it felt like there were too many Lois and Clark emotional scenes that never got to the point.
My big disappointment was that the action, while good and a shitload better than other batman movies, wasn't as good as the trailer had me anticipating.
I didn't mind the set up moments for the next movies, it was pretty obvious what they were and that further explanation would come in future movies. I didn't feel there were any plot holes besides the typical mild contrivances that are in most all action films. Everything made sense besides what was left to be explained next time. Character motivations all worked, I liked them all, including Lex.