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[Veelk]

gaf isn't the best place to discuss film but this thread hasn't been hostile for the reasons Atr0cious thinks.

Zack Snyder is really not a director worth dying on a hill for.

Here was Atr0cious's real problem: He wanted an open discussion that he could control, and that's as contradictory as it sounded.

You see, he was the only one that wanted to discuss this film in depth, unlike posters like me who just threw (and I quote) "word salad" at the screen. He was very open to opinions, as long as they weren't wrong. And you knew if they were wrong if he decided they were.

For example, you asserted Civil War had stakes and a change in the status quo. "What stakes" he asked, wanting to hear your opinion. So you gave them, but of course they weren't 'real' consequences, because he said so. Then he explained what real consequences were, using all examples from BvS. Where is a clear difference, can't you see?

My favorite part was when he argued that the directors intentions weren't relevant to truly understanding the true meaning of the film, except where they were, and if you omitted those details then your analysis of the film is incomplete. Naturally, he's the one who tells you which moment is which. The part where he argued that a film is only as good as the viewer who projects his own feelings on the film, unless their marvel movies, which are obviously too simple to do so.

"Wait, guys, why are you opposed to my super deep and intelligent film analysis? You guys just don't want to discuss real film techniques I guess!"

 

[Doctor Ironic]

Zack Snyder is really not a director worth dying on a hill for.

I think it's interesting how the pro-Snyder side likes to actually discuss Snyder and the rest seem content with insisting that he's "not that deep" or "doesn't intend that kind of stuff" without offering any reasoning for it. When they're not posting memes.

The thread is going to get locked if this keeps up, lol.

Please do, the people who don't want the movie to be discussed have pretty clearly won and from here on out it's just circlejerking.

 

[IconGrist]

Well, I don't know about you, but I feel I've covered more or less everything I wanted to cover on BvS.

Maybe a discussion on the hyper/toxic masculinity themes with the film...but I feel less bothered by the UC, since it included more women in more significant and better done active roles, so even if it's depictions are still somewhat problematic, its an improvement over the TC. Besides, that, of all topics, is not one that's fun. People get defensive just out of habit and I feel it's a topic that's just more exhausting to discuss. If Atr0cious decided to argue against it, I'd feel it would be more important to push back against him in this case. The most visible issues, specifically how Batman and Superman interact, were covered on my post about their fight anyway. So I don't think it's a necessary thing to engage.

Other than that, I've said more or less all I need to say on the movie. If you have a talking point you want to discuss on the movie, feel free. All I got left is memes.

Hey you are preaching to choir when it comes to the disappointment of how Batman and Superman interact. My favorite aspect between them is their dynamic and how they play off each other and literally none of it appeared in a movie specifically dedicated to them. Even after they were done fighting. Which is probably a good thing honestly. There's a lot of jokes about them becoming friends because their mothers share a name but I don't find that to be true. The next time they speak it comes off a little hostile.

"Did you find the spear?"
"I've been a little busy."

I'd be able to continue on and maybe push a little "they aren't friends yet and still have to build to that" but then they added a pointless joke ("Is she with you") and we're back to square one.

 

[guek]

Here was Atr0cious's real problem: He wanted an open discussion that he could control, and that's as contradictory as it sounded.

You see, he was the only one that wanted to discuss this film in depth, unlike posters like me who just threw (and I quote) "word salad" at the screen. He was very open to opinions, as long as they weren't wrong. And you knew if they were wrong if he decided they were.

For example, you asserted Civil War had stakes and a change in the status quo. "What stakes" he asked, wanting to hear your opinion. So you gave them, but of course they weren't 'real' consequences, because he said so. Then he explained what real consequences were, using all examples from BvS. Where is a clear difference, can't you see?

My favorite part was when he argued that the directors intentions weren't relevant to truly understanding the true meaning of the film, except where they were, and if you omitted those details then your analysis of the film is incomplete. Naturally, he's the one who tells you which moment is which. The part where he argued that a film is only as good as the viewer who projects his own feelings on the film, unless their marvel movies, which are obviously too simple to do so.

"Wait, guys, why are you opposed to my super deep and intelligent film analysis? You guys just don't want to discuss real film techniques I guess!"

It's true. All of it.

Oh shit, wrong fandom

 

[What did he mean by this?]

Just catched this movie on itunes

I liked the part were Batman punch the tackled Batman and got scared the most.

5 stars

 

[Ashhong]

I swear to god you mother fuckers better stop quoting dumbass Nolan memes!!

Hey you are preaching to choir when it comes to the disappointment of how Batman and Superman interact. My favorite aspect between them is their dynamic and how they play off each other and literally none of it appeared in a movie specifically dedicated to them. Even after they were done fighting. Which is probably a good thing honestly. There's a lot of jokes about them becoming friends because their mothers share a name but I don't find that to be true. The next time they speak it comes off a little hostile.

"Did you find the spear?"
"I've been a little busy."

I'd be able to continue on and maybe push a little "they aren't friends yet and still have to build to that" but then they added a pointless joke ("Is she with you") and we're back to square one.

I didn't think that was hostile at all. It was sarcastic and how friends talk. It's also how I imagine Batman talk. I am pretty sure those lines were in JLU at one point (minus the spear)

 

[benjipwns]

I think it's interesting how the pro-Snyder side likes to actually discuss Snyder and the rest seem content with insisting that he's "not that deep" or "doesn't intend that kind of stuff" without offering any reasoning for it. When they're not posting memes.



Please do, the people who don't want the movie to be discussed have pretty clearly won and from here on out it's just circlejerking.

I hope the next generation of Zack Snyder threads won't inherit an empty wine cellar. Not that there's likely to be a next generation...

 

[Veelk]

I swear to god you mother fuckers better stop quoting dumbass Nolan memes!!

You know you can't win this. It's suicide.

"Did you find the spear?"
"I've been a little busy."

I'd be able to continue on and maybe push a little "they aren't friends yet and still have to build to that" but then they added a pointless joke ("Is she with you") and we're back to square one.

I didn't see that as hostile, just sarcastic.

But yeah, some kind of tangible evidence of their regard for each other now that they can talk without getting up in each others shit would be nice.

 

[Ashhong]

You know you can't win this. It's suicide.

I can take the trolls, your 10 paragraph essays, and all the other trash posts in DCU threads, but this...this is too much

 

[benjipwns]

I swear to god you mother fuckers better stop quoting dumbass Nolan memes!!

Next time they draw a giant bat fire on the bridge, don't go to it. Nolan's Bat is dead. Bury it. Consider this mercy.

 

[guek]

I hope the next generation of Zack Snyder threads won't inherit an empty wine cellar. Not that there's likely to be a next generation...

Man, Alfred was probably my favorite character in this film. It's a damn shame he never commented on Diana directly in reference to his hopeless endeavor to get Bruce settled with a woman. It felt like that's what they were building up to but it never happened. I hope they remember that little subplot going forward.

 

[IconGrist]

I didn't think that was hostile at all. It was sarcastic and how friends talk. It's also how I imagine Batman talk. I am pretty sure those lines were in JLU at one point (minus the spear)

I didn't see that as hostile, just sarcastic.

But yeah, some kind of tangible evidence of their regard for each other now that they can talk without getting up in each others shit would be nice.

Batman's was a little sarcastic but Superman did not appear sarcastic at all.

Man, Alfred was probably my favorite character in this film. It's a damn shame he never commented on Diana directly in reference to his hopeless endeavor to get Bruce settled with a woman. It felt like that's what they were building up to but it never happened. I hope they remember that little subplot going forward.

No thank you. Keep the Diana/Bruce shipping to the fans and out of the DCEU.

 

[Veelk]

I can take the trolls, your 10 paragraph essays, and all the other trash posts in DCU threads, but this...this is too much

Nolan!Quotes are like weeds, Ashlong; pull one up, another replies in its place. This is about the future of the thread. This is my legacy.

No thank you. Keep the Diana/Bruce shipping to the fans and out of the DCEU.

I actually like WonderBats but I agree. In too many instances is the justification for a female character only to be a heroes love interest. The Holy Trinity needs to stand together, but stand on it's own. As a result, if Diana has a love interest, it should be Trevor, the love interest she has from her own comic. He will be in her movie, but that's not an excuse for it to happen in the DCEU. Wonder Woman either finds her own man (or woman, whatever), or stands alone.

 

[benjipwns]

Man, Alfred was probably my favorite character in this film. It's a damn shame he never commented on Diana directly in reference to his hopeless endeavor to get Bruce settled with a woman. It felt like that's what they were building up to but it never happened. I hope they remember that little subplot going forward.

Probably my favorite live action Alfred.

I liked the little woodchopping scene added in this cut, where he comes in and realizes Bruce has gone off to do something crazy again. Much better than just cutting from Bruce watching the bombing on TV to Lex arriving at the LexCorp aftermath. (Not to mention the Clark saving people scene inbetween.)

 

[guek]

No thank you. Keep the Diana/Bruce shipping to the fans and out of the DCEU.

Lol it's happening, man. You know it's inevitable at this point.

 

[IconGrist]

Lol it's happening, man. You know it's inevitable at this point.

Shit. Is there room for a new Marvel fanboy?

 

[Veelk]

Lol it's happening, man. You know it's inevitable at this point.

I'm sure it is. Chalk it up to DC being epically tone deaf to the modern and moving culture. It just really sucks.

Whatever. We're getting a Wonder Woman movie. I just want htat to be good. JL doesn't have to be good, hell, Wondy 2 doesn't have to be good, I just want that one film to be good.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I can take the trolls, your 10 paragraph essays, and all the other trash posts in DCU threads, but this...this is too much

Men are still good. We argue, we annoy, we betray one another, but we can rebuild. We can do better. We will. We have to.

 

[broncobuster]

Man, Alfred was probably my favorite character in this film. It's a damn shame he never commented on Diana directly in reference to his hopeless endeavor to get Bruce settled with a woman. It felt like that's what they were building up to but it never happened. I hope they remember that little subplot going forward.

I was expecting Alfred to say something about Wonder Woman. She fought with the Brits in WWI. Alfred is a former soldier. Along the lines of him hearing legends of an amazon fighting in the war. Get a moment of, wait, that was all real?

Would've liked more interaction between Superman and WW. It's a little strange to me that he isn't asking her if she's a Kryotonian. From his point of view, having not been CC'd the justice_league.exe, the only metahumans are Kryotonians. Revelation of others should be a big deal for him.

 

[benjipwns]

Actually, scenes like that small Alfred woodchopping one, and the longer version of Lex arriving at LexCorp, etc. was the biggest thing for me in this cut. Maybe even more than giving Clark characterization and motivation, and showing Lois actually investigating. It smoothed out the pacing of the first two-thirds. The sense of time in the theatrical cut is so disjointed as to being Nolan bad.

 

[guek]

Shit. Is there room for a new Marvel fanboy?

Oh, you think Marvel is your ally. But you merely adopted the MCU; I was born in it, moulded by it.

 

[Veelk]

Actually, scenes like that small Alfred woodchopping one, and the longer version of Lex arriving at LexCorp, etc. was the biggest thing for me in this cut. Maybe even more than giving Clark characterization and motivation, and showing Lois actually investigating. It smoothed out the pacing of the first two-thirds. The sense of time in the theatrical cut is so disjointed as to being Nolan bad.

While the first two thirds of the film are still boring as hell, I can acknowledge that there was character stuff going on.

Which is what baffles me about the last 3rd. Everything from the start of the BvS battle makes no goddamn sense in relation to the first 2 thirds of the film.

 

[IconGrist]

Oh, you think Marvel is your ally. But you merely adopted the MCU; I was born in it, moulded by it.

See? I'm already on the inside.

 

[Veelk]

Shit. Is there room for a new Marvel fanboy?

Doesn't matter what you did, or what you were. If you go out there, you argue, and you argue to kill. Stay in here, you're good, I'll send your atr0cious to come find you. But if you step out this thread, you are an Avenger.

 

[duckroll]

Wow what happened to this thread? I haven't even watched the Ultimate Cut yet and now I kinda don't want to. You people...

 

[Veelk]

Wow what happened to this thread? I haven't even watched the Ultimate Cut yet and now I kinda don't want to. You people...

I'd only recommend it if you liked the theaterical cut. It's a marginally better movie.

But yeah, this got a bit....yeah...

 

[IconGrist]

Wow what happened to this thread? I haven't even watched the Ultimate Cut yet and now I kinda don't want to. You people...

EDIT: In all seriousness, the movie is an improvement. Hands down. How much so depends on what you didn't like about the original cut.

 

[benjipwns]

EDIT: In all seriousness, the movie is an improvement. Hands down. How much so depends on what you didn't like about the original cut.

What do YOU mean "you people"?

 

[MegaManTrigger]

My favorite part was when he argued that the directors intentions weren't relevant to truly understanding the true meaning of the film, except where they were, and if you omitted those details then your analysis of the film is incomplete. Naturally, he's the one who tells you which moment is which. The part where he argued that a film is only as good as the viewer who projects his own feelings on the film, unless their marvel movies, which are obviously too simple to do so.

My favourite part too.

I called out the obvious hypocrisy and when he explained it. I was left sitting on in front of my laptop like:

 

[Alienous]

I bet Nolan movies taught you that films mean something, that the narrative does things for a reason. BvS taught me a different lesson, making no sense at all ... They taught me a movie only makes sense if you force it to.

Haha.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Wow what happened to this thread? I haven't even watched the Ultimate Cut yet and now I kinda don't want to. You people...

We're not monsters. We're just ahead of the curve.

 

[CelticKnight]

Saw it last night, and I liked it. Never saw the the first cut so can't comment on the differences, and I've only seen a handful of the "glut" of recent superhero movies so I can't compare it to those... but I thought it was a decent film.

Things I liked that have probably already been mentioned - Affleck is a great Batman (that "you died but I didn't kill you" body count though), Irons is a great Alfred and Luther didn't really click with me.

 

[benjipwns]

We're not monsters. We're just ahead of the curve.

They have all these rules and they think they'll save them.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

*Pops in to see how people like the extended cut* *leaves again just as fast*

 

[Jonogunn]

I work for Bruce Wayne!

 

[WAR recon zero]

While it does not "fix" the movie (i think the movie had it's problems) i think this cut is far superior. Movie went from 7,5 to 8,5 imo

Still sad there is people insulting other people because they liked it.

I would still cut

Spoiler

doomsday

and the final Scene tho

 

[DAVIDHUXLEY]

Saw it last night, and I liked it. Never saw the the first cut so can't comment on the differences, and I've only seen a handful of the "glut" of recent superhero movies so I can't compare it to those... but I thought it was a decent film.

Things I liked that have probably already been mentioned - Affleck is a great Batman (that "you died but I didn't kill you" body count though), Irons is a great Alfred and Luther didn't really click with me.

Replace Eisenberg with Mark Strong. I do not think anyone woul mind. Maybe not even Eisenberg.

 

[Mengy]

“Fanboy is just a two syllable word for any poster too intelligent for little minds.”


So a friend of mine pre-ordered the blu ray yesterday, and was then surprised to get a digital version code in his email. So last night the four of us who went together to see the theater version got together at my brother’s theater room to sit down and watch the ultimate cut.

And we all agreed that it’s still just a bad movie.

Is it better than the original version? Yes, undeniably it is better. Some of the stuff they cut really needed to be left in there, I mean WOW. Some of those scenes were rather important. However, even improved the film still has the same core problems that it had before: unappealing characters, bad pacing, and a (at times) disjointed script. It’s still a good looking movie, and there are still those scenes that are great. Wonder Woman is still a good (although minimal) character, Batfleck is still the best part of the movie, Alfred is still awesome, but Superman is still a maudlin depressing character to watch. That little scene of him helping at the bomb aftermath should NEVER have been cut, the movie needed much more of that kind of Superman.

I would rate the theater version a 4 out of 10, but I’d only give the ultimate cut a 5 out of 10. It’s better for sure, but it’s still not a great movie IMHO.

 

[kurahador]

Is the final fight longer in this? Do we get to see how Batman stole the kryptonite?

 

[benjipwns]

That little scene of him helping at the bomb aftermath should NEVER have been cut,

"Superman helping people doesn't test well with audiences, could we cut that and add more Batman shooting things until they blow up? In fact, do we even need Superman in this movie? Can't Batman just fight another Batman? What about if he fought two other Batmans? And then at the end they could fight a Joker Batman or something. Also, the Joker Batman could have a giant spider. They're the most fearsome killers in the animal kingdom."

Spoiler

BATMANBATMANBATMAN: Dawn of Justice

 

[Alienous]

Is the final fight longer in this? Do we get to see how Batman stole the kryptonite?

Spoiler

1. The final fight is slightly longer, I think. There's more of him in Metropolis before Superman pulls him into space - time where they establish he's a danger to the city. I'm not sure if it was like that in the TC cut, I was half tuned out by that point. There's also a small collection of extended moments in the fight.

The BvS fight similarly has slightly extended sequences.

Spoiler

2. Nope. You get 2 seconds looking at security footage, where you see Batman drop down on a dude. But otherwise, he still steals the Kryptonite off-screen after the Senate bombing

.

 

[Ahasverus]

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED IN HERE LAST NIGHT? Nice to see critics are wrong and this movie does resonate with 12 year olds.

Thank you Alienous and a few others for keeping the discussion spirit

 

[Blader]

The discussion here last night reminded me of a film professor I had once, who was a super nice and cool guy, but would always insist on these bizarre readings of films. The best example, which is burned into my brain, is when he argued the stalagmites in the caves in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom were representative of the vagina dentata.

I'm sure Spielberg has never even heard that phrase before, but even so, who cares?

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Can I get a TL;DR, please?

 

[Ahasverus]

The discussion here last night reminded me of a film professor I had once, who was a super nice and cool guy, but would always insist on these bizarre readings of films. The best example, which is burned into my brain, is when he argued the stalagmites in the caves in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom were representative of the vagina dentata.

I'm sure Spielberg has never even heard that phrase before, but even so, who cares?

While some might be exaggerations, saying Snyder has no depth or subtext ever is wrong. This movie is filled, filled with subtle (and not so subtle) homages to the works that inspired the story. Take the Excallibur retelling in the Doomsday fight. It works, beat for beat to what is going on. "B-b-but Snyder is dumb, that's just coincidence" well except the title of the movie at the Crime Alley theater was.. Excallibur. And so on.

Dismissing everything Snyder thinks or does as "dumb" or "dudebro" is plainly wrong. He might not be the better articulator ever, but a shallow man he isn't.

The thing is, some can't accept this movie IS NOT shallow and cynical. It's a labour of love, misguided perhaps, but the makers tried to drive home important, deep connections that the genre hasn't tried to have. It wasn't totally successful BUT some people could either intentionally or not get some of the messages, and they felt them and they voice them. They are not WRONG. The Ultimate Cut cements BvS as the last of its kind, a 3hr mythology inspired superhero epic which focuses in drama and existencialism for 2 hours only to devolve into a comic book type of resolution, which is of course, typical go to the source material.

I, of course, in the spirit of the last few pages, expect the rebuttal to this post to be a quote, with "lol no" written on it, and the Chris Evans gif.

 

[Nilaul]

The movie was all good until Doomsday showed up.

Everything about it him was just so fake the CGI, the design, and the Dragon Ball Elements which were done really poorly with CGI. The CGI just fell apart. Music was off putting too.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Can I get a TL;DR, please?

"Das ausdrückende Wasser aus der Badewanne symbolisiert Supermans Machtvakuum" oder sowas und die anderen haben ihn outgecalled weil das überinterpretierter Quatsch ist. Und dann waren alle für zwei Seiten pissy weil einer die Deadpoolseite geposted hat.

 

[shoreu]

Next time they draw a giant bat fire on the bridge, don't go to it. Nolan's Bat is dead. Bury it. Consider this mercy.

Lmao

 

[bob_arctor]

Can I get a TL;DR, please?

Dunno, man. BvS threads always bring out the worst in GAF. This remains the same as well:

If you liked the TC, you will like the UC.

If you were on the fence with the TC, the UC may sway you.

If you hated the TC, the UC won't change your mind.

The UC is an objectively better movie but not an objectively good movie. If that makes sense.


I liked a lot that discotheque was saying earlier, about the world building and Batman's first appearance and higher highs etc. There has been some good discussion here and there.

 

[icespide]

is batmans first appearance different in the UC?