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Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)

Veelk

Banned
However, there's a lot more dissonance in the Nolan trilogy simply because Bruce spends so much time talking about how he has one rule and he won't cross it, and yet he clearly does multiple times. Snyder's Bruce never talks about rules.

That's because Nolan's rule is often misunderstood, though it's not helped by the fact that he often phrases it as "I won't kill"

What he actually means is "I will not execute". Which is different. Killing the middle of a fight, where he cannot be expected to have realistic control over a situation, is one thing. In that, he merely does everything he can to avoid killing while still completing his objective, but is not always successful. He always tries to incapacitate rather than kill.

However, when he has someone under his power, he is never going to kill them. It's pretty much clearly established in the Ra's ninja school, where he has a guilty man brought before him, but will not execute him because in no way is that man a threat to him.

So yeah, you have him killing when he has no other option. But BvS batman tries to avoid it. People say the warehouse fight doesn't have him killing anyone, but given the kinds of injuries that he inflicts, I would say atleast half of them are dead. And it isn't because I think he was trying to kill them. I just think he wasn't trying not to. If they die in a fight, they die.

Which is the ultimate difference I keep coming back to. Nolan's Batman cares. BvS does not.


Also, I don't think a lot of people saw my write up on the movie before when I posted it because it was near the bottom of the page, so I'm quoting it to get a bit more exposure.

I finished the film last night and went to sleep. I planned on making a write up immediately after, but that didn't happen, so here are my final thoughts on it.

The actual core problem of TC was that the conflict of the main act fell on it's face entirely.
The titular fight is nothing short of complete joke in it's badness and I still don't understand how Snyder thought he that it was acceptable work. It doesn't even look good. But what kills it is that it fails, even in the UC, to actually resolve the issues that batman and superman have with each other. The film does a much better making Superman an active character, as he's constantly searching for a story about batman. One of my biggest complaints is that Superrman just kind of....sat there, the entire movie in the theatrical cut and hated batman for very poorly defined reasons, but here it's much better presented, which, unfortunately, is saying much less than it sounds like.

It all comes back to the fact that their fight just doesn't resolve the issues they purportedly have. Batman is still a sadistic fuck who is happy to play judge to the criminals he encounters. There was a scene with a spanish woman who admits her husband had his issues but was also a good man at heart, and during the warehouse scene, passed the part where Batman supposedly changed, it's fairly clear he's killing the thugs there. In some ways, post the events of the movie, Batman is actually worse than before, because the Bat brand thing was just a sadistic power trip for him before and Lex was the reason people who were branded got murdered. So he was just torturing them for fun, rather than actively subverting the sentence they were passed by people of court, which was the actual thing that Superman had a problem with the Batman over: that he was circumventing the law by passing his own judgement on criminals instead of letting the people decide. So not only is he still killing thugs if it's convenient, he explicitely intercepts Lex Luthor's sentence of being sent to a max security prison in order to send him to Arkham Asylum, where he states he has influence, specifically to inflict his own personal torture on him. So anyone who says Batman has a redemptive arc in this movie, he doesn't. He still does the same thing he did before, just pointed at the 'right' person this time.

But we're getting off track. The point here is Superman. Superman shows up to the fight after the talk with Lex Luthor and goes "I was wrong." I can't think of what he could be referring to except his objection to Batman's methods, which make no logical sense. Because Luthor outplayed him and he has to do his bidding, that means the system he was defending up to now is broken? That the woman's pain he encountered before and sympathized with is null and void? If there was a "the system is broken" scene in there, it seems it got cut even from the UC, but even if there was, that's a really naive excuse to think that because Luthor got the better of him out of jail, that means humanities judgement on what to do with him in jail is not applicable. (also, on a more minor note, "I was wrong" is a complete non-sequitor to batman because Superman never talked to him about anything. Batman has no knowledge of what Superman is wrong about Great continuity there, Zacky)

Really, it was a narrative misstep to have him be try to connect with Batman here in the first place. Because, as far as Superman is concerned, the issue they had with each other is resolved and they have a new pressing problem, so there isn't conflict on his side. Luthor resolved Superman's problem with Batman before they even met. But instead, Superman's mannerisms here make no sense. First, he isn't capable of saying "Hey, listen, Luthor kidnapped my mom, please help me". He tries to, is interupted by something, then a long period of silence goes by while they....well, I can't describe it as anything else, Superman tries to physically bully batman into listening to him. I mean, for someone whose trying to ask a favor, Superman is aggressive as shit. Batman comes up to him, he shoves him away, he throws him through a building...yeah, Batman is being aggressive here, but it's not like he's actually hurting him. I've said before that it's bizarre how these characters cannot communicate except through aggression, and this is something that severely handicaps the relationship these guys can have. "Stay down! If I wanted it, you'd be dead already!" Why the fuck would you say that to him? All you do is validate that you are a threat and an oppressor whose willing to use his muscle to coerce people into doing what you want. Superman has no reason to fight him up until he uses kryptonite, but he's just trying to physically beat Batman into submission when no submission is necessary. So Batman is a bully who goes on power trips, but it's atleast implied here that Superman isn't any different. Even their reconciliation is framed as an reprimand and an order, not a plea. "You're letting them kill martha! Save Martha!" That's not a request for help, that's an order.

But as far as Bruce's perspective is concerned, I'd like to remind you that non of Lex Luthor's lies have been exposed to him, like with Superman (Lex only tells Superman that he pushed him over the edge by making superman look bad, but he still has every reason to believe Batman intentionally brands people to kill them). So Batman still has reason to believe that Superman was partially responsible for the senate bombing and all that. And, of course, as many have pointed out, Superman's power still remains a threat regardless of his present intentions. He still had that dream where he was definitively right about Superman, (Flash told him about Lois before he ever knew there was a connection between Superman and Lois). So both of them still think the other is guilty of everything they were before the fight.

Which is ultimately why the martha thing is so absurd. Here you have these two hyperaggressive meatheads that seem literally incapable of communicating if it's not through aggression, throwing their weight at each othere, demanding that one falls in line with the other, and this is all changes and they become friends? No. Nothing relating to their issues is resolved and they even when Supes was trying to initiate a cooperation, they were still utter dicks to each other about it. Like, even if they would be willing to work with each other, it's laughable they'd be partners of any sort, because they would be at each others necks fighting for dominance over the moment they didn't have another common enemy to go at. A lot has been made about the Martha moment being this big epiphany for Batman, that he took the place of Joe Chill in his memories by trying to murder Supermman, but none of that has to do with anything happening here.

BvS simply didn't know how to have these characters just fucking talk to each other, and as a result, it was impossible for them to reconcile their conflict, so the writers just gave up on it. In a way, the UC fight is worse because now that we have a more legitimate reason why Superman has issues with Batman, it's all the more frustrating to see them throw it away. All that time Clark spent investigating people, empathizing with the woman who lost her husband, trying to figure it all out, is literally thrown out the window because his mom is in danger, and that apparently means all the principles Superman holds dear fly out the window and he's willing to relinquish a psycopath of all responsibility for his actions. Similarly, Batman sees Superman as this danger to society, someone who can wipe out the human race if they fell under evil influences of some kind, someone whose entire interaction with him was spent with him trying to coerce him into doing things he didn't want to do, all that is null and void because he has an existential crisis about the name martha.
This is stupid. Despite the sparks of potential here and there, it's difficult to exaggerate this movie's badness because it is fundamentally broken at it's core by potentially the most idiotic and poorly written central conflict resolution I've ever seen in a superhero movie. Fuck this movie. .
 
So I watched this version as my first viewing of the film the other night. I didn't think it was that terrible. Although definitely lots of very questionable things. Batman very quickly got over his grudge once he realised their mums had the same name.

My exact thoughts. This version is my first viewing of the film.
 

Vyer

Member
Also, I don't think a lot of people saw my write up on the movie before when I posted it because it was near the bottom of the page, so I'm quoting it to get a bit more exposure.

might want to toss in a selfie or something, really make an impact
 

KahooTs

Member
So I watched this version as my first viewing of the film the other night. I didn't think it was that terrible. Although definitely lots of very questionable things. Batman very quickly got over his grudge once he realised their mums had the same name.

I thought the Martha thing was excellent, way better than what I was expecting would bring them together. Superman accepting Batman would kill him and begging for Batman to save his mother was a very best of humanity thing that resonated with me, so I could easily accept it had a profound effect on Batman, especially given the history with his own mother.

Even though the next step was very contrived. All Superman needed was a location (which Batman would need too) and he could have saved his mother in the time it took for them to decide Batman should do it. But eh, trust is good.
 

cr0w

Old Member
Also, I don't think a lot of people saw my write up on the movie before when I posted it because it was near the bottom of the page, so I'm quoting it to get a bit more exposure.

I just think people don't care, tbh. At this point you're kind of jerking off in front of a mirror.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Thanks for taking the time to share that, Veelk. Ignore the people who've never articulated a thought over 140 characters in length.
 
The final scene with Batman and Lex makes a LOT more sense now after the short scene when we are shown that Lex is communicating with someone/thing in the crashed ship. Who was that anyway, I don't remember that scene in the theatrical release?

In the threatrical release, the final scene in the jail made Lex seem very crazy. Now his ramblings make much more sense. Clearly there is an another villain that knows about Earth, likely about Superman and will be coming. I don't know enough about the DCU to know who it is though.
 

Veelk

Banned
I just think people don't care, tbh. At this point you're kind of jerking off in front of a mirror.

I've gotten a lot of positive responses to other posts I've done in the past. Most of them, really, if I put in the effort like I did above. I just think that's one of my better ones on this movie and when I posted that, the Great Atr0cious Debate started a bit, so I legitimately do think it was just left by the roadside a bit.

If people don't have anything to say about it, that's fine, they're free to scroll past it. It's not like I'll be doing this again. I am somewhat of an attention whore, but I try to be self aware enough of it to not overdue it and make an effort of always posting something of worth. And I don't think reposting it one time is going over the top.
 

ezekial45

Banned
The final scene with Batman and Lex makes a LOT more sense now after the short scene when we are shown that Lex is communicating with someone/thing in the crashed ship. Who was that anyway, I don't remember that scene in the theatrical release?

In the threatrical release, the final scene in the jail made Lex seem very crazy. Now his ramblings make much more sense. Clearly there is an another villain that knows about Earth, likely about Superman and will be coming. I don't know enough about the DCU to know who it is though.

It was cut in the TC. They wanted to have it as a post-credits teaser, but they released it a YT teaser the week after the movie came out instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-MUzvASr8s
 

jayu26

Member
This is my first time watching the movie. I really like the first 90 minutes, even though Batman straight up murders people. It's all downhill from there and the "Martha" thing is just stupid lazy.
 

IconGrist

Member
I think some sort of line to kind of inform people that Bruce is prone to PTSD would've helped the Martha thing. Not that it wasn't bashing you in the head with imagery about it but some people just need it said.

Of course I've never heard a good argument on why it was so terrible. All I ever get is basically, "because it's dumb." Which is about as useful to me as a fork in the eye.
 
I forgot how much I loved wonderwoman's theme. Her jumping in at the end was awesome.

Anyway, thought the movie was good before, and better now.
 

Veelk

Banned
I think some sort of line to kind of inform people that Bruce is prone to PTSD would've helped the Martha thing. Not that it wasn't bashing you in the head with imagery about it but some people just need it said.

Of course I've never heard a good argument on why it was so terrible. All I ever get is basically, "because it's dumb." Which is about as useful to me as a fork in the eye.

Ask Bruce, he'll provide you with one.
 
Of course I've never heard a good argument on why it was so terrible. All I ever get is basically, "because it's dumb." Which is about as useful to me as a fork in the eye.

Same could apply to almost every Force Awakens thread I've seen on GAF; memes are easy good arguments are hard. I just think it's weird how vehemently some people try to convince others that they shouldn't like something.
 
Of course I've never heard a good argument on why it was so terrible. All I ever get is basically, "because it's dumb." Which is about as useful to me as a fork in the eye.
It's stupid because it's extremely lazy and weird writing. Batman is hellbent on KILLING this guy whom he percieves to be a complete monster, he has a spear to his throat, ready for the kill-shot. Then because Superman says his mommy's name with no further explanation, Batman and him are "friends," a word he actually uses to describe Superman. I don't buy it as something that would actually happen between two men trying to kill each other.

Superman referring to his mother via her actually name is dumb and lazy writing as well. It just doesn't make sense.

The whole event was just silly, weird, and anti-climatic. It was the film's titular fight and ended in less than 10 minutes because their mom has the same name? Few exchanges after that? Superman can't even speak for himself, Lois says Martha's his mom.

If we're gonna use key words to describe why the moment was bad, I found it lazy, rushed, bizarre, and anti-climatic. Not the way you end the film's titular battle of the gods.
 
I do not think this batman vs superman movie is completely awful its just so disappointing even though it is what I expected from Zack Snyder. The worst thing about this whole situation is Zack Snyder is directing Justice League.
 

BadAss2961

Member
That's because Nolan's rule is often misunderstood, though it's not helped by the fact that he often phrases it as "I won't kill"

What he actually means is "I will not execute". Which is different. Killing the middle of a fight, where he cannot be expected to have realistic control over a situation, is one thing. In that, he merely does everything he can to avoid killing while still completing his objective, but is not always successful. He always tries to incapacitate rather than kill.

However, when he has someone under his power, he is never going to kill them. It's pretty much clearly established in the Ra's ninja school, where he has a guilty man brought before him, but will not execute him because in no way is that man a threat to him.

So yeah, you have him killing when he has no other option. But BvS batman tries to avoid it. People say the warehouse fight doesn't have him killing anyone, but given the kinds of injuries that he inflicts, I would say atleast half of them are dead. And it isn't because I think he was trying to kill them. I just think he wasn't trying not to. If they die in a fight, they die.

Which is the ultimate difference I keep coming back to. Nolan's Batman cares. BvS does not.


Also, I don't think a lot of people saw my write up on the movie before when I posted it because it was near the bottom of the page, so I'm quoting it to get a bit more exposure.
This take is made up in your mind. You said it yourself, the only thing stated in the trilogy is that Batman doesn't kill, period. Nolan just didn't go all the way with it and left a couple scenes open to nitpicking. They could've made some changes to avoid putting Bruce in those situations, but they didn't... Officially, he only killed Dent. Unofficially, he killed quite a few.

For better or worse, there's nothing unofficial in BvS because it owns the fact that Batman is killing people if it comes to that.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
It's stupid because it's extremely lazy and weird writing. Batman is hellbent on KILLING this guy whom he percieves to be a complete monster, he has a spear to his throat, ready for the kill-shot. Then because Superman says his mommy's name with no further explanation, Batman and him are "friends," a word he actually uses to describe Superman. I don't buy it as something that would actually happen between two men trying to kill each other.

Superman referring to his mother via her actually name is dumb and lazy writing as well. It just doesn't make sense.

The whole event was just silly, weird, and anti-climatic. It was the film's titular fight and ended in less than 10 minutes because their mom has the same name? Few exchanges after that? Superman can't even speak for himself, Lois says Martha's his mom.

If we're gonna use key words to describe why the moment was bad, I found it lazy, rushed, bizarre, and anti-climatic. Not the way you end the film's titular battle of the gods.

I completely agree that he perceives him as a monster, but I would argue that's why it kind of works. His perception is skewed. Hearing his mothers name, his fathers dying words, he is taken aback. He doesn't understand. When it is made clear that this monster in front of him also has a family, which was tragically taken from Bruce, his defenses drop. Clark and Louis then explain the situation to him (I feel like you missed this part but it's there).

I can't really fault the complaint about saying his mothers name instead of just "mom" nor do I disagree that it could've been done better, but for me it's fine, much like the resolution in countless other comic book films I've enjoyed. So many of them have problems with the climax. It's hard to resolve conflict in superhero movies because they generally don't kill. I think that's one of the reasons why Deadpool is so enjoyable.

I also have the feeling this will not be the last battle between them (if those movies ever get made).
 

IconGrist

Member
It's stupid because it's extremely lazy and weird writing. Batman is hellbent on KILLING this guy whom he percieves to be a complete monster, he has a spear to his throat, ready for the kill-shot. Then because Superman says his mommy's name with no further explanation, Batman and him are "friends," a word he actually uses to describe Superman. I don't buy it as something that would actually happen between two men trying to kill each other.

Superman referring to his mother via her actually name is dumb and lazy writing as well. It just doesn't make sense.

The whole event was just silly, weird, and anti-climatic. It was the film's titular fight and ended in less than 10 minutes because their mom has the same name? Few exchanges after that? Superman can't even speak for himself, Lois says Martha's his mom.

If we're gonna use key words to describe why the moment was bad, I found it lazy, rushed, bizarre, and anti-climatic. Not the way you end the film's titular battle of the gods.

Superman is being exposed to pure kryptonite. It's literally inches away from his face. We've seen its effects and how it just about fully incapacitates him. Painfully. Not to mention Batman has this giant, spike-bottom, metal boot on his throat. This is not a situation where Superman can just go, "Bruh, I know you're totally about to spike the shit out of me and I get it but if you'd do me a solid and save my dearest mommy for me that would be cool. kthxbye!" This was a last ditch effort by Superman who sees Batman is about to drive the spike into his chest. Which of these two words do you think means something more to Bruce Wayne and will better catch his attention? Martha or mom?

Batman only calls Superman his "friend" to comfort Martha. He wasn't literally saying they were "friends". This is a common dialogue. Even villains in other movies have used the "he's my friend" line to get close to someone of personal value to their enemy. Spike (or was it Angelus) does this with Buffy's mom in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
 

Veelk

Banned
This take is made up in your mind. You said it yourself, the only thing stated in the trilogy is that Batman doesn't kill, period. Nolan just didn't go all the way with it and left a couple scenes open to nitpicking. They could've made some changes to avoid putting Bruce in those situations, but they didn't... Officially, he only killed Dent. Unofficially, he killed quite a few.

For better or worse, there's nothing unofficial in BvS because it owns the fact that Batman is killing people if it comes to that.

No, it's inferred based on his actions throughout the series. There is obviously an ethos at play here, but merely because the character doesn't properly articulate does not mean it's not there. Your argument is akin to saying that Sherlock Holmes doesn't think just because he incorrectly refers to the vast majority of his conclusions as deductions when they're typically inductions. It'd probably behoove Nolan to be more careful with his wording, but that alone doesn't invalidate the argument.

Besides, no one consistently says specifically what they mean in such a way as they are never wrong or innaccurate. Saying "I don't kill" is just a short and easy way to get the general idea of what bruce means out to people.
 

BadAss2961

Member
No, it's inferred based on his actions throughout the series. There is obviously an ethos at play here, but merely because the character doesn't properly articulate does not mean it's not there. Your argument is akin to saying that Sherlock Holmes doesn't think just because he incorrectly refers to the vast majority of his conclusions as deductions when they're typically inductions. It'd probably behoove Nolan to be more careful with his wording, but that alone doesn't invalidate the argument.
His actions throughout the series make him almost as deadly as Batman in BvS, but those moments are meant to be overlooked. Besides Dent, which is acknowledged, Nolan's Batman does actually stick to the rule... But there are flaws in the execution, hence the unofficial kills.
 
BvS batman is overtly a killer and neither snyder nor the character itself does anything to hide it or shy away from that. People comparing it to Nolan's Batman are way off the mark. They are executed far differently.

I'm fine with that as a one movie "this is me at my lowest point" kinda thing. But I really wish they did a better job of explaining why batman broke down that badly. One single throwaway line like "20 years in Gotham" and an implied dead Robin ain't cutting it imo. It's such a big departure for the character that you really gotta sell your vision and not half ass it such as having Batman back off of superman so easily.

Edit: honestly though I'd like him to keep fighting like a brutal asshole lol. Dude needs to chill with the Batmobile machine guns however.
 

Veelk

Banned
His actions throughout the series make him almost as deadly as Batman in BvS, but those moments are meant to be overlooked. Besides Dent, which is acknowledged, Nolan's Batman does actually stick to the rule... But their are flaws in the execution, hence the unofficial kills.

I've explained like 4 times that the difference isn't 'deadliness' but 'character'.

The Hiroshima bomber directly killed more people than any other single human being on the planet, but he got PTSD from it and seemed by all accounts a normal guy. I would say he's less of an asshole than Charles Manson, even though his kill count is less than 10 people compared to the Hiroshima bombers 90,000-140,000.
 

Dennis

Banned
This Batman is a straight savage.

Highlight of the movie was the Batman vs human goons in the warehouse fight.

vaYNT4S.gif


Far more engaging than laser eyes and energy field shockwaves.

Wonderwoman was great in the big fight scene though.
 

BadAss2961

Member
I've explained like 4 times that the difference isn't 'deadliness' but 'character'.

The Hiroshima bomber directly killed more people than any other single human being on the planet, but he got PTSD from it and seemed by all accounts a normal guy. I would say he's less of an asshole than Charles Manson, even though his kill count is less than 10 people compared to the Hiroshima bombers 90,000-140,000.
You said Baleman was about not killing only in the sense of not executing people, that he often said one thing but really meant another. I'm just pointing out that that's not true. He really did mean and stick to no killing period, officially.

I agree with Disco that it's a mistake to compare them at all. BvS goes in a dark direction where Batman starts to break his rules, but it's not like he never had them in the first place -- that would be Burton.
 

Veelk

Banned
You said Baleman was about not killing only in the sense of not executing people, that he often said one thing but really meant another. I'm just pointing out that that's not true. He really did mean and stick to no killing period, officially.

First off, define 'officially', because I have no idea what you mean by that.

No one denies that Batman is culpable for the deaths of, say, the guys in the truck that he rammed his Batmobile into. But those weren't executions. If by officially you mean "Acknowledged by the movie", that's not really true either, because batman only acknowledges it in the same sense that he acknowledges being responsible for the deaths of everyone Dent killed, which he wasn't. And in any case, he killed Talia the same way he killed dent: Unintentionally in the process of trying to protect innocents.

I agree with Disco that it's a mistake to compare them at all. BvS goes in a dark direction where Batman starts to break his rules, but it's not like he never had them in the first place -- that would be Burton.

I don't need to make the comparison. BvS Batman is a shitstain on his own accord. If he was the only Batman to have ever been depicted in any media, I would not be a fan of Batman.
 
This Batman is a straight savage.

Highlight of the movie was the Batman vs human goons in the warehouse fight.

vaYNT4S.gif


Far more engaging than laser eyes and energy field shockwaves.

Wonderwoman was great in the big fight scene though.

That was such a fucking cool fight. One of the best sequences in comic books films ever.
 
Man I want my 3 hours back, I don't know what you guys that like this are on but holy fuck this movie needed way less not more. Then again if you cut out all of the shit that sucked you're essentially left with a cool 15 minute batman choreography reel.
 
This Batman is a straight savage.

Highlight of the movie was the Batman vs human goons in the warehouse fight.

vaYNT4S.gif


Far more engaging than laser eyes and energy field shockwaves.

Wonderwoman was great in the big fight scene though.

I have to admit, this sequence is too distracting for me: how the hell does Batman put so much weight in moving the box, but it easily ricochets off of the goon? The box should have crashed onto the wall. Someone failed in the physics department...
 

Fezan

Member
The movie is OK but not great.

The hate is way overblown.
Exactly for me the movie was good for others it would be not so good but I have seen people describing it as the worst CBM film or boring shit.
After reviews and reading some impressions on gaf I was expecting some thing as bad as aoen flux or elrctra. Came out looking the movie especially first 2 halls of the movie were almost perfect. The only thing I disliked was the portrayal of lex. He is fine on his own tough just not what I was expecting from luthor
 

Veelk

Banned
I have to admit, this sequence is too distracting for me: how the hell does Batman put so much weight in moving the box, but it easily ricochets off of the goon? The box should have crashed onto the wall. Someone failed in the physics department...

You think that's bad? You know that whale shaped hole Batman leaves in the wall during his fight with superman? It bugged the shit out of me because I couldn't see how Batman's leg could have extended so far to make the tail.

So I eventually just went to that scene and examined it frame by frame and sure enough, batman's leg appears nowhere close to the tail. Snyder just needed to get his SYMBOLISM!!! in there, I guess. Because we wouldn't have been able to tell that Bruce was obsessed with killing a godlike figure if we didn't have allusions to Moby Dick, right?

I'm just glad Atr0cious isn't here to expound on the deep meaning of the wall whale hole.
 

Gravidee

Member
I have to admit, this sequence is too distracting for me: how the hell does Batman put so much weight in moving the box, but it easily ricochets off of the goon? The box should have crashed onto the wall. Someone failed in the physics department...

It somehow seems lighter than if the box were completely empty, lol.
 
I have to admit, this sequence is too distracting for me: how the hell does Batman put so much weight in moving the box, but it easily ricochets off of the goon? The box should have crashed onto the wall. Someone failed in the physics department...

In a movie where a flying alien fights a dude dressed like a bat, your issue is with the physics of a tossed box?

It's not a great movie by any means but goddamn if you people don't always find the tiniest shit to bitch about.
 

Veelk

Banned
It somehow seems lighter than if the box were completely empty, lol.

It's a magic box.

It's light enough to be flung by B-man from that awkward angle.

Heavy enough to knock back a fully grown man a few feet

Light enough to be itself knocked back.

Heavy enough that the guy bleeds from the back of his head on hitting the wall

Light enough that the initial hit on the guy causes no visible damage.
 

icespide

Banned
In a movie where a flying alien fights a dude dressed like a bat, your issue is with the physics of a tossed box?

It's not a great movie by any means but goddamn if you people don't always find the tiniest shit to bitch about.
he's not saying this one thing makes the movie trash or anything he's just mentioning something he noticed. fucking christ people are so sensitive about this movie
 

BadAss2961

Member
First off, define 'officially', because I have no idea what you mean by that.

No one denies that Batman is culpable for the deaths of, say, the guys in the truck that he rammed his Batmobile into. But those weren't executions. If by officially you mean "Acknowledged by the movie", that's not really true either, because batman only acknowledges it in the same sense that he acknowledges being responsible for the deaths of everyone Dent killed, which he wasn't. And in any case, he killed Talia the same way he killed dent: Unintentionally in the process of trying to protect innocents.

I don't need to make the comparison. BvS Batman is a shitstain on his own accord. If he was the only Batman to have ever been depicted in any media, I would not be a fan of Batman.
I already explained it the first time I brought it up. It's the bending or flawed execution of the no kill rule throughout the trilogy. If you look at the facts, Batman only killed Dent. But when you start to pick things apart, his actions caused quite a few deaths. Like he refused to execute that one guy in Begins, so to avoid that, he took down the entire fortress, which obviously killed a whole lot of people, and probably the same dude he refused to kill. lol

You're talking about BvS Batman as if it's a different character entirely, but it's not. He's already went through what Nolan Bats did and much more... Enter BvS.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
In a movie where a flying alien fights a dude dressed like a bat, your issue is with the physics of a tossed box?

It's not a great movie by any means but goddamn if you people don't always find the tiniest shit to bitch about.
Just because there are people flying around doesn't mean someone can't be distracted by wonky physics.

Life is full of tiny shit to bitch about. It isn't only directed at this movie.
 

Veelk

Banned
I already explained it the first time I brought it up. It's the bending or flawed execution of the no kill rule throughout the trilogy. If you look at the facts, Batman only killed Dent. But when you start to pick things apart, his actions caused quite a few deaths. Like he refused to execute that one guy in Begins, so to avoid that, he took down the entire fortress, which obviously killed a whole lot of people, and probably the same dude he refused to kill. lol

No, you haven't explained anything, because you're arguing against a point that no one made. No one said that Batman only killed dent. Not me, and no one I've read in this thread.

I'd say your attacking a strawman, but strawmen arguments are usually caricatured versions of someone elses argument. Here, it seems you made up an opposing argument wholesale and are arguing against that. Because no one said Nolan's Batman hands were clean but for Dent's death.

To recap what my argument actually is: That Batman tries to avoid death when possible in persuit of his mission to protect others, which he is sometimes unable to do. Batman doesn't have a no kill rule here, he has a no execution rule. You want to respond to THIS argument maybe?

You're talking about BvS Batman as if it's a different character entirely, but it's not. He's already went through what Nolan Bats did and much more... Enter BvS.

Also an argument I haven't made. I'm not saying he's a different character entirely. Fuck, Adam West Batman and BvS Batman aren't different characters entirely.

He is, however, significantly different from most other Batmen in that he is a cunt.

can't believe they cut
the daily show bit

like it wasn't even that long
It also wasn't funny.
 

Veelk

Banned
well tell that to Jon Stewart, as it was a real clip from a real past episode.

Really? I assumed they did what they did with Colbert in House of Cards.

That's even lamer.

And yeah, Jon Stewart is an awesome guy and great comedian, but that wasn't his strongest moment there.
 
This Batman is a straight savage.

Highlight of the movie was the Batman vs human goons in the warehouse fight.

vaYNT4S.gif


Far more engaging than laser eyes and energy field shockwaves.

Wonderwoman was great in the big fight scene though.

I hope Ben Afleck works with this team of stunt people/ coordinators/ choreographers on his Batman movie. I agree, this was one of the greatest Batman moments in a live action film.
 
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