flaxknuckles
Member
I agree with you but she just doesn't scream "Wonder Woman" to me like Cavill does with Superman.
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Batman vs Superman: World's Finest Three-Year Wait
- Thread starter Marion Cobretti
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I agree with you but she just doesn't scream "Wonder Woman" to me like Cavill does with Superman.
GringoSuave89
Banned
I hated the Superman pic we got before MoS. It was an unflattering shot and it looked really off. Ended up really liking the movie when it was released. Can't let one picture sour you on it.
Oh no I'm not soured at all. I just can't get used to how she looks in that picture. Hopefully we'll see more of her and the rest soon.
broncobuster
Banned
Looking at it like that, Superman was named Superman by the press. Batman's a loon who calls himself Bat-Man. The other two, I can't see them naming themselves Aquaman and Wonder Woman.
I wonder if there's going to be a running joke of Lois having to name all the characters as they show up.
Banner already had an introductory movie before Avengers though. ..
Delta Assault
Member
Worked for The Flash.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
"Who is this guy playing Banner? It's not Ed Norton. Is it a different Banner? What the hell. You're going to have a whole bunch of people REALLY confused about what's going on. It's not a good move at all."
Recasting a character =/= introducing a new character. Nobody blinked when Rhodey changed actors.
Marion Cobretti
Member
But the new actor didn't have a solo movie to introduce him. I'm confused and don't understand what's happening in this movie. Whedon should've done what Marvel did, and make a solo movie for each character before making the team up movie, and only after each character has their own solo origin movie. It's the only way my feeble mind can comprehend why all these fantasy characters are in the same movie.
Thank you all. Had a go putting Aquaman in the line-up:
awesome (I love people putting Supes in front and not Bats..same with JL comics latest covers)
also we already know Flash (Ezra Miller) and Cyborg (Ray Fisher) so only Green Lantern left which is not weird to be careful about Hal after the 2011 movie, They should go with John Stewart so we can have a life action adaptation of this episode
But Ruffalo Banner = Norton Banner. Seriously, you're stretching it pretty thin with this defense. You're also glossing over the recasting of Rhodey as well, which everyone got.
Recasting a character isn't even in the same realm as introducing a new character.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
They should go with John Stewart so we can have a life action adaptation of this episode
That is one of the best Justice League stories ever done. Not even kidding. Loved the hell out of that.
Marion Cobretti
Member
I'm stretching thin?
Don't know why you guys are latching onto Hulk, Marvel's 2nd most popular character.
I don't think anyone is arguing Batman changing actors will be confusing.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This is the point I'm making. That the argument about the audience being confused is almost always silly and without merit or basis. Like over in the Spidey thread, what people are really saying is "I don't like it," they're just trying to find a way to pump up "I don't like it" so that it sounds more important/ironclad, as if it's no longer an opinion but some sort of RULE that filmmakers have to follow.
It isn't.
"The audience is going to be confused!"
No they won't. Not if the filmmakers are even mildly competent. And if they aren't, you're going to have way bigger problems on the audience confusion front anyway.
Marion Cobretti
Member
Sarcasm dude.
Wait, now I'm confused. I need a solo origin movie for this thread so I can follow it properly.
Father_Brain
Banned
In addition to my general point about what world-building actually means above, I think this argument reflects a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of both Avengers and shared universes in general.
Was Avengers accessible to people who hadn't seen the previous MCU films? Yes, obviously. That doesn't mean it was written as though its characters had no established in-universe history, because it very much built on what had been developed in the previous films. Pretty much any good DC/Marvel story works on this level: acknowledging and building on existing continuity, while not requiring the reader to be extensively familiar with that continuity.
If characters like Aquaman and WW have no prior in-universe history as superheroes (and to be fair, there's still a chance that's not the case) that's a pretty major difference from the Avengers approach, isn't it?
Marion Cobretti
Member
There's some super deep rooted psychological bias going on with some of you guys.
How was it that not a single MCU fan criticized Guardians for not giving everyone a solo origin movie, but are convinced that the general public won't be able to comprehend where Wonder Woman came from.
Explain to me how Wonder Woman and Aquaman require their own movies, but Starlord, Rocket and Groot didn't.
We're talking about fictional fantasy characters here people.
How was it that not a single MCU fan criticized Guardians for not giving everyone a solo origin movie, but are convinced that the general public won't be able to comprehend where Wonder Woman came from.
Explain to me how Wonder Woman and Aquaman require their own movies, but Starlord, Rocket and Groot didn't.
We're talking about fictional fantasy characters here people.
GringoSuave89
Banned
Batman only ever dressed like a bat. Criminals/the press called him Batman. At least in every version so far.
Oh please oh please let this happen.
Except Joss has undercut that by saying prior knowledge isn't needed and he treated The Avengers as a self-contained film. And the sequel is also self-contained.
Oh my god.
EmptySpace
Banned
okay, so who are going to be the seven?
bats, supes, diana, aquaman, flash, cyborg and gl?
what about j'onn?
bats, supes, diana, aquaman, flash, cyborg and gl?
what about j'onn?
Father_Brain
Banned
It's not that they necessarily require their own movies, just that they're intrinsically tied to concepts (Greek gods, Themyscira, Atlantis) that are harder to distill into a few lines of exposition than "weird science shit gave me super-speed powers" or "I got blown up and my dad rebuilt me into a cyborg."
GotG was set in outer space. You don't need much exposition to justify weird alien characters in a weird alien setting, just as you don't need much exposition to explain wizards, orcs, or dragons in a medieval fantasy setting. If you put those characters on modern-day Earth, on the other hand, you'd need some actual explanation for what they were doing there (no, not necessarily a whole movie's worth, that's a straw man).
GringoSuave89
Banned
You're assuming that people don't get the jist of mythology. Any kid that's seen Disney's Hercules will get WW's background. Same with Atlantis. Not that had to put together.
Father_Brain
Banned
Uh, what? That's exactly my point: that all Avengers proved is that it's perfectly possible to make accessible, self-contained films in a shared universe, not that the prior continuity of that shared universe is irrelevant to the story being told (because it certainly wasn't in Avengers and won't be in AoU).
If you think that undercuts my point, you pretty badly misread my post.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
It actually turned me off to seeing Ironman two. I've yet to see it.
Corpsepyre
Banned
This is making atleast a billion dollars at the box office, right? I MEAN, RIGHT? It's opening in March. It has to.
Marion Cobretti
Member
Worldwide, definitely.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I wonder if we are still going to hear certain individuals keep on pushing that "They need separate movies to introduce them like in the MCU!" bullet point when Black Panther and/or Spiderman randomly show up in a Captain America movie.
broncobuster
Banned
To be honest I'm surprised to see it alive after the Black Panther business.
We don't know BvS' take but every movie iteration of Batman, from West to Bale, has him naming himself.
Father_Brain
Banned
It has nothing to do with the intelligence of the audience, and everything to do with the type of universe the film is set in. If there are no publicly known superheroes other than Superman and Batman, (and to be fair, I'm making assumptions here because I don't have much to go on), surely the revelation of those concepts' existence should be treated with more than a metaphorical shrug of the shoulders?
More_Badass
Member
It's less about knowing their background and more explaining their existence in the world.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
How would we even gauge how "confused" people will be? Is WB going to hand out surveys at the end of screenings?
That's pretty much how it works in the comics. They're all given their names by the press. In the N52, Aquaman's name originated in online message boards.
Depending on if rumors are true BP will be heavily teased in AoU. As well as BP and his nation having an important part to the CW story. Spider-man is the biggest superhero in the world.
Not exactly the same thing.
Messypandas
Member
We need a Bilbo Baggins origin movie.
Considering Black Panther's Wakanda gets set up in AoU, I don't see a problem there. Shit, with Klaw in the movie we might even see a mini-origin BP story being set up. At least we'll get a few establishing lines that cement him in the universe. As for Spiderman, that should indeed be interesting to see how it's approached and received.
Schweinehund
Member
No MMH (those 7 you listed are the founding members of New 52 Justice League). I wouldn't mind a JLA or JLI movie with MMH, Hawkman, Dr. Fate, Vixen and others though.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
The story was mostly about events in prior films.
I'm going to miss our talks of cluster ducks and train wrecks and receding hairlines and skinny model girls.
Father_Brain
Banned
Just to be fair: if Aquaman is just a cameo in BvS per Faraci, and Themyscira and the Amazons actually have a major role in the plot, that would significantly alleviate my concerns about how they're going about world-building.
The latter doesn't look to be the case right now, though. But WW's role is definitely my biggest unanswered question about the film.
The latter doesn't look to be the case right now, though. But WW's role is definitely my biggest unanswered question about the film.
Ninja Scooter
Member
So you agree that it doesn't require a dedicated 2 hour solo movie to establish a character in a comic book movie?
Father_Brain
Banned
Of course it doesn't. That's a silly argument.
Certain people are too fixated on the how of Marvel preceding Avengers with a series of solo films, and ignoring the why. For instance, why did Thor and Cap get their own films, but Black Widow, War Machine, Hawkeye, and Falcon didn't? Maybe it's because those characters are conceptually simple enough that they were easy to establish as supporting characters?
They're clearly taking a different approach to world-building with BP/Wakanda, though, and it'll be interesting to see how that works out.
I agree you don't need solo films to make the team up work but it does come with it's own set of challenges. Biggest being there are a lot of stuff you have to create/adapt from scratch in this one film for these characters.
How do you guys/gals think secret identities will be handled between all these characters? That's one thing that I would think would be the complete opposite of the MCU.
Messypandas
Member
I actually wish they'd have went into the DCCU with no backstory about superheroes and just had a world full of costumed vigilantes and super powers like they do in every animated feature. If you go into a movie with the premise "super powered heroes exist," you can swallow a whole lot. If you treat every new character as some groundbreaking new discovery then yeah, you're going to need a lot more exposition.
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