Support NeoGAF

[iam220]

So basically you want support to be completely useless. At range and in close? Support already have huge disadvantage with their accuracy, bullet spread, shooting while moving , slower ADS than all, and recoil on their weapons. If they are not prone or using the bipod, they are pretty shit.

Support has (unlimited) C4 and Mortars plus a gun that you need not worry about reloading. I'm mowed down entire squads with the M249, if you're moving and shooting it might be shit but standing still/crouching they're damn good. You don't necessarily need to prone. If any class is "fine the way it is" its support.

The way I see it, between the 3 classes it should be like this:

vs Infantry: assault > support > engineer
vs Vehicles: engineer > support >>>> assault (useless)

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Currently the Engineer class beats out the assault class in every map.

Agreed. The nerf should be taken in context of the class, not what caliber, etc. it is. Sure the SCAR can be an awesome gun for the Engineer class, but it shouldn't overshadow most of the Assault weapons either....

Engineer needs less man-killing power.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Really interesting that the SOFLAM stays after death too, so as a Recon is always important to plant one somewhere safe overlooking traveled roads and then just leave it there.

When you die, change to whatever else and it will stay there racking points if you left it in the right spot.

I would imagine this isn't as intended and will be patched out.

 

[Rabbitweed]

Bwahahahahahaha.

In 15 games I have been on the winning side once. That's 1 time. 1.

Just got three more losses so my losing streak is extended to 12. Hurrah! I think I'm done for today. And I'm soon done with this game if this bullshit continues...

 

[Moaradin]

So basically you want support to be completely useless. At range and in close? Support already have huge disadvantage with their accuracy, bullet spread, shooting while moving , slower ADS than all, and recoil on their weapons. If they are not prone or using the bipod, they are pretty shit.

That's why I've given up on the bipod. Its way too unreliable most of the time and I need more consistency. Foregrip makes it better for me but it's still tough. I just got the M60 mastery dog tag yesterday, so I'm trying to stick it out with support.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Agreed. The nerf should be taken in context of the class, not what caliber, etc. it is. Sure the SCAR can be an awesome gun for the Engineer class, but it shouldn't overshadow most of the Assault weapons either....

Engineer needs less man-killing power.

And why should the assault class out gun everyone else? The class based system is that, it's about class roles, not about rock paper scissors class combat. Assault class is now also the medic which has always been one of the weaker on the weapon spectrum until the silly thing of having them use LMG's in BC2. The assault weapons do have various incentives over the SCAR, but it's also pretty pointless to still be complaining about the SCAR as they have already stated its getting nerfed down.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

That's why I've given up on the bipod. Its way too unreliable most of the time and I need more consistency. Foregrip makes it better for me but it's still tough. I just got the M60 mastery dog tag yesterday, so I'm trying to stick it out with support.

I have 30+ hours into Support, and yeah, the playstyles between bipod and foregrip differ substantially. I love the bipod though. On larger maps, and when you feel like being more defensive, it makes your LMG fire laser beams. Of course if you're caught off-guard while on the move you're pretty much fucked.

The foregrip gives you much more reaction and mobility, but you lose your long range accuracy too.

Both are a blast to play with.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

And why should the assault class out gun everyone else?

Because they're completely useless against vehicles and armor. Why should the Engineer class get the same man-killing power as well as it's various anti-vehicle abilities? So then the only reason to go Assault is to play as a medic?

 

[Miggytronz]

Also, Seven Ways BF3 is improving (blog post):

AWESOME NEWS!

 

[Megasoum]

That's kinda how I assumed it would work--I could have sworn they said it would be like this. Parties are almost pointless, except for ensuring you join a game with those players. Best way to do it would be:

-Form a party (let's say, four players)
-Find and join a server
-Server puts you in the same squad. If the server becomes too imbalanced, it either
--Waits to add you until more players join the other side
--Moves players not in squads to the other side
-HAPPINESS

Yup... The only reason we are using party right now is for the voice chat.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Because they're completely useless against vehicles and armor. Why should the Engineer class get the same man-killing power as well as it's various anti-vehicle abilities? So then the only reason to go Assault is to play as a medic?

Recon are just as, if not more so useless against vehicles/armor.

And each class is unique with a role, so why wouldn't players want to play as an assault? Engineer is popular but from what it seems on servers, assaults are very popular as well because they do have medic abilities, excellent range with their scopes, and grenade launchers rock face.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Epic 32 man basejump.

I made it 15 seconds...

 

[Interficium]

And why should the assault class out gun everyone else?

Because then Engineer wouldn't be the best at everything in the game.

 

[1stStrike]

Because then Engineer wouldn't be the best at everything in the game.

This. I changed my A-91 to single fire mode yesterday with the IRNV and then proceeded to snipe people with it.

 

[iam220]

That's why I've given up on the bipod. Its way too unreliable most of the time and I need more consistency.

Setting up bipod is not something to be used in the moment when enemies are already shooting at you, it something that you set up ahead of time to cover a certain area.

And why should the assault class out gun everyone else? The class based system is that, it's about class roles, not about rock paper scissors class combat. Assault class is now also the medic which has always been one of the weaker on the weapon spectrum until the silly thing of having them use LMG's in BC2. The assault weapons do have various incentives over the SCAR

Well the role of assault as I understand it is to out gun every other class while being completely useless vs vehicles. They got the health kit now but lost the grenade launcher. Given that they have a medic role I agree that they shouldn't stand head and shoulders above every one else (like they did when BC2 first came out) but they should still be the preferred class vs infantry.

but it's also pretty pointless to still be complaining about the SCAR as they have already stated its getting nerfed down.

Not complaining, just having a discussion about class balance.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Because then Engineer wouldn't be the best at everything in the game.

But they aren't, the best rifle is still with the Assault class.

Well the role of assault as I understand it is to out gun every other class while being completely useless vs vehicles. They got the health kit now but lost the grenade launcher. Given that they have a medic role I agree that they shouldn't stand head and shoulders above every one else (like they did when BC2 first came out) but they should still be the preferred class vs infantry.

Eh? They still got the grenade launchers.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Engineer is popular but from what it seems on servers, assaults are very popular as well because they do have medic abilities, excellent range with their scopes, and grenade launchers rock face.

Engineers don't get the same scopes? And I would argue that rocket spam is as viable, if not more, than grenade launchers. So, yeah, medic....

A couple Engineers with rockets and an ammo pack on Bizarre, fuck those guys. =)

 

[Miggytronz]

Assault still has grenade launchers iam220.

 

[iam220]

Eh? They still got the grenade launchers.

Yeah but than you're only a half medic.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Engineers don't get the same scopes? And I would argue that rocket spam is as viable, if not more, than grenade launchers. So, yeah, medic....

A couple Engineers with rockets and an ammo pack on Bizarre, fuck those guys. =)

Grenades are much more effective against infantry than rockets, blast radius is much larger on grenades. With a support player giving ammo, both engineer rocket and assault gl spam are equally annoying though.

 

[Cobra84]

Assault still has grenade launchers iam220.

I'd rather use the rockets. They are better than the M320 in actual use and I don't have to give up an important part of my class to use it.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I'd rather use the rockets. They better than the M320 in actual use and I don't have to give up an important part of my class to use it.

Grenades are superior anti infantry weapon, rockets are just easier to use as GL usage requires some skill.

 

[FINALBOSS]

So basically you want support to be completely useless. At range and in close? Support already have huge disadvantage with their accuracy, bullet spread, shooting while moving , slower ADS than all, and recoil on their weapons. If they are not prone or using the bipod, they are pretty shit.

Support is just that, a SUPPORT class. It's not a main offensive class like Assault. Tons of bullets + ammo + suppression effect is their bread n butter.

 

[Roude Leiw]

okay i got my new g500 mouse. and i cant mal buttons in bf3. tried to map them through setpoint which also doesnt work. anyone having these issues?

 

[iam220]

Support is just that, a SUPPORT class. It's not a main offensive class like Assault. Tons of bullets + ammo + suppression effect is their bread n butter.

Than add C4, claymores and mortars and you've got a beast of a class.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Support is just that, a SUPPORT class. It's not a main offensive class like Assault. Tons of bullets + ammo + suppression effect is their bread n butter.

Yes, and they have tons of disadvantages already. They are fine as they are really, people saying they need other classes superior to them is silly with how many handicaps they are already dealing with in game. It's also the least played class generally on servers.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Recon are just as, if not more so useless against vehicles/armor.

And each class is unique with a role, so why wouldn't players want to play as an assault? Engineer is popular but from what it seems on servers, assaults are very popular as well because they do have medic abilities, excellent range with their scopes, and grenade launchers rock face.

Why are you arguing with us?

Engineer is by far the best class in the game (I don't play it just for the sake of having variety in our games).

And what the shit are you talking about scopes and grenade launchers? LOL Are you high? Engineer has scopes too (Holo/red dot > scopes anyways) and a fucking rocket launcher.


The problem is, Engineer right now is the best at OFFENSIVE, DEFENSIVE, ANTI-AIR, ANTI-TANK

 

[Anton Sugar]

Recoil can only do so much, at range you're likely doing small burst or single fire, so recoil does not really have much weight there. They do need to balance out the engineer guns but if they make them anywhere near as powerful as the assault guns (especially at range) than they're doing it wrong.

Currently the Engineer class beats out the assault class in every map. On the bigger open maps, its no contest as the engi has the ability to take down and repair vehicles as well as possess a weapon that goes toe-to-toe with (if not flat out superior) any assault rifle. On the infantry focused maps, its a much closer call but I'd still give the advantage to engi. They're rocket launcher is actually more effective than the assaults grenade launcher, and in order for assault to even use the grenade launcher they need to drop their most valuable tool, the health kit.

Bottom line is that engis should be the bane of vehicles , not infantry. VS infantry they need to suck a lot more than they do now. They got it right in BC2.

I agree that Assault should "out-infantry" Engineers, I just think in this particular case, with the SCAR and the fact that it already has more recoil and a lower magazine capacity, should be augmented by higher or slightly higher damage. If the only thing they do to balance it is reduce the damage, the SCAR will literally be useless, and that's just not good game design.

I think they should just consider buffing the Assault rifles at range so that they require one less shot. All assault rifles (except G3) require 5-6 shots to kill at range. Most of the carbines are the same, with some taking 7 shots at looong range to kill. Most recon single-auto rifles require 3 shots to kill, even at range. If they made it so Assault rifles were 4-5 shot kills at med-long range, and Carbines 6-7, I don't think we'd have as many complaints about the SCAR.

And I strongly disagree about BC2 being better. At least 2 engineer SMG's had higher close range damage than AR's, and their long range damage wasn't far off, either. Plus they were laser accurate.

 

[Mr Nightman]

okay i got my new g500 mouse. and i cant mal buttons in bf3. tried to map them through setpoint which also doesnt work. anyone having these issues?

you clicking under the mouse area? They have 3 columns for keyboard, mouse and joystick

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Some of the vertical/horizontal recoil on these weapons is too much. Ruins it a tad. It's meant to be a videogame, not a simulation

 

[Cobra84]

Grenades are superior anti infantry weapon, rockets are just easier to use as GL usage requires some skill.

The rockets are just easier to use and can kill vehicles. The grenades aren't powerful enough to make up for the bad trajectory, single purpose, and the loss of med packs.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Some of the vertical/horizontal recoil on these weapons is too much. Ruins it a tad. It's meant to be a videogame, not a simulation

I love it. I want my guns to kick and control the recoil on my analog stick, not shoot laser beams.

You gotta practice with your weapon of choice and pulling down on the right stick while you're aiming. Once you learn how to control the recoil with pulling the stick, it becomes very rewarding.

 

[Rad-]

That's cause SCAR is severely overpowered right now. It's pretty much the best gun in the game by a mile.

It's not though. There is a better engie gun and it's shocking people aren't talking about it. Most haven't unlocked/tried it? I'm talking about G36C. It has about the same DPS as Scar but with almost zero recoil in close quarter combat.

 

[FINALBOSS]

I agree that Assault should "out-infantry" Engineers, I just think in this particular case, with the SCAR and the fact that it already has more recoil and a lower magazine capacity, should be augmented by higher or slightly higher damage. If the only thing they do to balance it is reduce the damage, the SCAR will literally be useless, and that's just not good game design.

I think they should just consider buffing the Assault rifles at range so that they require one less shot. All assault rifles (except G3) require 5-6 shots to kill at range. Most of the carbines are the same, with some taking 7 shots at looong range to kill. Most recon single-auto rifles require 3 shots to kill, even at range. If they made it so Assault rifles were 4-5 shot kills at med-long range, and Carbines 6-7, I don't think we'd have as many complaints about the SCAR.

And I strongly disagree about BC2 being better. At least 2 engineer SMG's had higher close range damage than AR's, and their long range damage wasn't far off, either. Plus they were laser accurate.

I guess. Everyone reloads after killing someone anyways, so 3 shots and you're dead with the SCAR and I'm reloading already. And it's not like the recoil on the SCAR is out of the world. It's more than manageable.

It's not though. There is a better engie gun and it's shocking people aren't talking about it. Most haven't unlocked/tried it? I'm talking about G36C. It has about the same DPS as Scar but with almost zero recoil in close quarter combat.

No, it's not.

Engineer G36c 25 damage
Engineer SCAR-H 34 damage

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Support is just that, a SUPPORT class. It's not a main offensive class like Assault. Tons of bullets + ammo + suppression effect is their bread n butter.

With my C4's I can take out more tanks than I do as an Engineer. Support is my current favorite class.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Why are you arguing with us?

Engineer is by far the best class in the game (I don't play it just for the sake of having variety in our games).

And what the shit are you talking about scopes and grenade launchers? LOL Are you high? Engineer has scopes too (Holo/red dot > scopes anyways) and a fucking rocket launcher.

The problem is, Engineer right now is the best at OFFENSIVE, DEFENSIVE, ANTI-AIR, ANTI-TANK

People putting down GL's are being silly, it is a far more effective anti infantry weapon, but as laready said it requires less skill to use a rocket launcher than a GL that require aiming a trajectory based shot. With shitty maps like Metro and Damavand it doesn't matter though since they are so straight and narrow that it just makes rockets overpowered on them. In larger open maps, a GL is a much better choice especially due to it's range.

And again, the gun everyone is complaining about was confirmed be getting a nerf. Scopes are not important now? Wtf?

Engineer G36c 25 damage
Engineer SCAR-H 34 damage

This completely is ignoring the superior handling on the G36C. It has far less recoil.

 

[Snkfanatic]

Whenever I log on it seems no one is in the GAF server, got to play a bit last week with you guys but is there a specific time that the server seems to fill up?

 

[FINALBOSS]

People putting down GL's are being silly, it is a far more effective anti infantry weapon, but as laready said it requires less skill to use a rocket launcher than a GL that require aiming a trajectory based shot. With shitty maps like Metro and Damavand it doesn't matter though since they are so straight and narrow that it just makes rockets overpowered on them. In larger open maps, a GL is a much better choice especially due to it's range.

And again, the gun everyone is complaining about was confirmed be getting a nerf. Scopes are not important now? Wtf?

Equip a useless GL and you lose medic packs which is pointless. Engineers equipping rocket launchers don't lose their class tool...

And I'm not saying scopes aren't important...you used scopes as a selling point of the Assault class when Engineers have scopes too. It's a moot point.

 

[Roude Leiw]

you clicking under the mouse area? They have 3 columns for keyboard, mouse and joystick

yep i do. worked fine with my mx518.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Is it me or does Suppressor add recoil? Can't remember from the description.

Claymores

I know someone said they disappear after you respawn but they seem to disappear after I leave them in an area, and then come back to that area. In Rush mode, I plant claymores at A and then head to B (on that map with the beach, so the two are quite close). I then head back to A and they've gone! I go back to B, and yes, they're gone too

 

[Miggytronz]

Some of the vertical/horizontal recoil on these weapons is too much. Ruins it a tad. It's meant to be a videogame, not a simulation

Then go play that other media that releases next week that plays like your local malls arcade shooter.

 

[Gui_PT]

You're late...now get out!

That's it! I'm done carrying you on conquest!

 

[iam220]

Some of the vertical/horizontal recoil on these weapons is too much. Ruins it a tad. It's meant to be a videogame, not a simulation

Couldn't disagree more.

I agree that Assault should "out-infantry" Engineers, I just think in this particular case, with the SCAR and the fact that it already has more recoil and a lower magazine capacity, should be augmented by higher or slightly higher damage. If the only thing they do to balance it is reduce the damage, the SCAR will literally be useless, and that's just not good game design.

I think they should just consider buffing the Assault rifles at range so that they require one less shot. All assault rifles (except G3) require 5-6 shots to kill at range. Most of the carbines are the same, with some taking 7 shots at looong range to kill. Most recon single-auto rifles require 3 shots to kill, even at range. If they made it so Assault rifles were 4-5 shot kills at med-long range, and Carbines 6-7, I don't think we'd have as many complaints about the SCAR.

The SCAR should be balanced along with the engineers other weapons. It should not be made useless amongst the SMGS.

I find your solution about buffing the assault rifles instead also acceptable and actually preferred. Really annoying how many times I have to shoot someone at range. I think its exactly like BC2 in the amount of bullets but with 2x the recoil.

And I strongly disagree about BC2 being better. At least 2 engineer SMG's had higher close range damage than AR's, and their long range damage wasn't far off, either. Plus they were laser accurate.

From what I remember the SMGS long range sucked hard, and while laser accurate at short ranges at long ranges they were anything but, plus the damage drop off was pretty dramatic.

As far as engineers being as powerful or slightly more so than assault at very close ranges ... I actually didn't mind that much.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Is it me or does Suppressor add recoil? Can't remember from the description.

Claymores

I know someone said they disappear after you respawn but they seem to disappear after I leave them in an area, and then come back to that area. In Rush mode, I plant claymores at A and then head to B (on that map with the beach, so the two are quite close). I then head back to A and they've gone! I go back to B, and yes, they're gone too

I don't think so, but adding suppressors nerfs the damage at distance...which sucks.

As far as engineers being as powerful or slightly more so than assault at very close ranges ... I actually didn't mind that much.

They are more powerful at ALL ranges.

 

[Interficium]

It's not though. There is a better engie gun and it's shocking people aren't talking about it. Most haven't unlocked/tried it? I'm talking about G36C. It has about the same DPS as Scar but with almost zero recoil in close quarter combat.

You are not advised. The TTK on the G36C is tied for lowest of the engineer's class weapons. At close range you will lose every time. The SCAR simply needs less bullets.

At longer ranges you need a whole two more bullets landed to kill then the SCAR.

If you're trying to trade damage for ROF and accuracy, the M4 and A-91 beat the G36C soundly there, as well.


--


If they lowered the rate of fire of the SCAR even further (to the level of the G3 assault weapon) I think it would be fine.

 

[Cobra84]

With my C4's I can take out more tanks than I do as an Engineer. Support is my current favorite class.

Probably true with corridor heavy the map design. It's much easier to throw some C4 on a tank without being noticed than it is trying to fire multiple rockets at the side or rear and not get mowed down by the .50 cal.

 

[Miggytronz]

Is it me or does Suppressor add recoil? Can't remember from the description.

Claymores

I know someone said they disappear after you respawn but they seem to disappear after I leave them in an area, and then come back to that area. In Rush mode, I plant claymores at A and then head to B (on that map with the beach, so the two are quite close). I then head back to A and they've gone! I go back to B, and yes, they're gone too

Heavy Barrel adds Verticle recoil and suppressor tightens the recoil up but limited distance and damage.


Claymores dont have a big distance of damage radius wise, but trigger for some reason past that danger zone. Ive seen people walk 4ft away and run by them, they blow, no hit marker.

 

[Rainy Dog]

The 7.62mm guns also have more recoil than the 5.56/equivalent weapons and have a lower magazine capacity. Right now it currently just takes one less bullet to kill someone with the SCAR/G3 vs most of the other assault rifles/carbines.

If they nerf it too much, there will literally be no reason to use a gun like the SCAR that has more recoil, less ammo, and takes the same amount of shots to kill as low recoil/higher capacity guns like the M4 or F2000.

They should balance the 7.62mm guns in other ways--if they kill in the same amount of shots as the 5.56mm guns, they lose all value. Add more recoil, less accuracy, etc. I think giving it less damage is a bad idea.

Yep, I totally agree. If anything, the damage drop off could be sooner (ie. begin dropping off after 5 metres) but that's it. If they nerf the overall damage then it'll just be crippled compared to the other Engi guns due to its slow ROF, recoil and smaller clip.

They'd be better off slightly buffing some AR's. The AN-94 and AK-47M need some major tweaking for starters. Actually, Assault Rifles in general should deal full damage up to and including 20m I think. They're the only automatics classed as long range in battlelog, their stats don't reflect that compared to the supposedly medium range carbines and LMG's.

There seems to have been a bit of copy and pasting laziness gone on with weapons as they stand.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Equip a useless GL and you lose medic packs which is pointless. Engineers equipping rocket launchers don't lose their class tool...

And I'm not saying scopes aren't important...you used scopes as a selling point of the Assault class when Engineers have scopes too. It's a moot point.

Eh no they aren't, the scopes for assault give them a range advantage though. Holos and RDS don't have ranged zooms for longe range shots. Thats a nice advantage, don't see why someone would just ignore it.

 

[eek5]

Is it me or does Suppressor add recoil? Can't remember from the description.

Claymores

I know someone said they disappear after you respawn but they seem to disappear after I leave them in an area, and then come back to that area. In Rush mode, I plant claymores at A and then head to B (on that map with the beach, so the two are quite close). I then head back to A and they've gone! I go back to B, and yes, they're gone too

You can only plant 2 at a time afaik