http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3527332.stm
Goes on about ID losing hundreds of thousands of pound.
Goes on about ID losing hundreds of thousands of pound.
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BBC reporting DOOM 3 leaked online
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Greenpanda
Banned
Sho Nuff said:
The condom broke
Nice example of disinformed and sensationalistic press, making it sound like these "leaks" are anything new or unexpected, the world is about to collapse, and everyone involved with the game going bankrupt..
Check the quote:
"At one point on Sunday, more than 50,000 copies of the game, which weighs in at more than 1.5 gigabytes, were being downloaded.
Translated in lost sales, this amounts to $2.7m"
Sure, easy math: 55$ x 50000 copies
Except that, as said elsewhere, thats NOT A REALISTIC MEASURE OF LOST SALES.
Your average pirate may easily have dozens of copied CDs, but no way he could afford and / or want to buy nearly as many original games.
That someone takes something for free DOESNT MEANS HE WOULD PAY 55$ FOR IT, IF THE FREE COPY WASNT AVALIABLE.
If you walk on the street, someone stops you and offers you a free new car, who wouild refuse?
Of course, if the guy was trying to SELL a new car instead, not nearly as many people would take it.
That kind of loss report is like claiming that since you can give something away for free to XXX people, you can sell it to as many. Please.
See my post on the other topic. Mentioned this form of exaggerated loss reporting, and here came an example of it.
Check the quote:
"At one point on Sunday, more than 50,000 copies of the game, which weighs in at more than 1.5 gigabytes, were being downloaded.
Translated in lost sales, this amounts to $2.7m"
Sure, easy math: 55$ x 50000 copies
Except that, as said elsewhere, thats NOT A REALISTIC MEASURE OF LOST SALES.
Your average pirate may easily have dozens of copied CDs, but no way he could afford and / or want to buy nearly as many original games.
That someone takes something for free DOESNT MEANS HE WOULD PAY 55$ FOR IT, IF THE FREE COPY WASNT AVALIABLE.
If you walk on the street, someone stops you and offers you a free new car, who wouild refuse?
Of course, if the guy was trying to SELL a new car instead, not nearly as many people would take it.
That kind of loss report is like claiming that since you can give something away for free to XXX people, you can sell it to as many. Please.
See my post on the other topic. Mentioned this form of exaggerated loss reporting, and here came an example of it.
The Shadow
Member
That's one thing I *HATE* about those piracy reports. They assume that every downloaded copy would have been bought otherwise, if they had not downloaded it. That's nothing but a bunch of bullcrap.
Doubt about the ban. That would be true for games that use a centralized server, like MMORPGs.
Since anyone can host a game in FPSs, is possible there is no check on duplicate serial keys being used (cant ban them from every server anyway), and if there is, one can just hack the server code to remove it.
Not to mention that cooperative play is an unofficial modification itself
The Faceless Master
Member
yeah, quite a few people have already preordered or prepaid for it and just wanted to get it early... i even saw some people o irc saying they werent planning to buy it, but would now that they have played it... me, i'm just tired of all the doom 3 talk... talk about something else people!!! like pokemon box!!!
Ar_ said:Doubt about the ban. That would be true for games that use a centralized server, like MMORPGs.
Since anyone can host a game in FPSs, is possible there is no check on duplicate serial keys being used (cant ban them from every server anyway), and if there is, one can just hack the server code to remove it.
Not to mention that cooperative play is an unofficial modification itself
It's just like Quake 3. There is a master server. CDkey banning is easy.
I tryed a pirated copy of Quake 3, online. No problems for the 30 minutes I played, thought the server selection wasnt very large.
IIRC there was also the option to host a game.... cant exclude that the game automatically downloads a list of banned keys thought.
In the end, there probably are or will be pirate game servers accessible to even pirated copies of Doom 3.
IIRC there was also the option to host a game.... cant exclude that the game automatically downloads a list of banned keys thought.
In the end, there probably are or will be pirate game servers accessible to even pirated copies of Doom 3.
Sure, not everyone that pirates the game would purchase it. On the other hand, rampant piracy definitely lowers the perceived value to those who normally would pay for it. If it were impossible to pirate the game, do you not think that a lot more people would be willing to pay $55 for it? Or with something like Windows...most everyone gets $200 or whatever of value from it, and would be willing to pay for it if they had to, but pirating saves them a large chunk of change.
So while the number of downloaders who would pay is overestimated, at the same time there are a lot of people who will pirate instead of pay who aren't downloaders.
So while the number of downloaders who would pay is overestimated, at the same time there are a lot of people who will pirate instead of pay who aren't downloaders.
akascream said:I still can't believe people are trying to defend this behavior in any manner they can. LOL.. "it's expected", even if it were, what the hell is your point!!
Well, the point is that every company releasing a PC game should expect it to be pirated and figure that into sales expectations somehow. The moment this was released, they KNEW it would be on the net. That doesn't justify anything, of course, but that's the point. They need to expect it and prepare for it because it happens.
It's tempting, but I'm waiting until I have the boxed copy in my hands.
So because its expected by dark10x and seperoth_221, it isn't news? And was it really expected to be pirated to the extent it has?
Not to mention at every turn, this bit of information meets some new self serving, half-assed argument meant to justify stealing. "Like not everyone that stole this game would have bought it". LOL, as if that is at all relevant.
Shit.. even here (against TOS) links to pirate the game were provided.
Not to mention at every turn, this bit of information meets some new self serving, half-assed argument meant to justify stealing. "Like not everyone that stole this game would have bought it". LOL, as if that is at all relevant.
Shit.. even here (against TOS) links to pirate the game were provided.
akascream said:
Very ignorant post, I'm afraid (born out of frustration, I assume). I know it upsets you and, nowadays, it bothers me too...but you must be realistic here. It isn't ME that simply expected it to be pirated...it should be id Software and Activision. When a PC game is released, 99% of the time it is leaked onto the net for download. That's almost a fact, right there. Doom 3 is a BIG GAME, so you couldn't possibly convince anyone that it wouldn't be pirated. You aren't suggesting that, are you?
The point is that PC games are pirated, whether we like it or not. They are trying to stop this from occuring, but it just isn't that easy to pull off.
I am not attempting to justify this in any way...nor are many others. I'm very disappointed to see it leaked onto the net and downloaded like this, but if you think for a minute that was not going to occur...you are flat out incorrect.
I agree with you, aka...but you have to face reality here.
How could id let this happen? Has anything like this ever happened before? This will surely devastate the PC Gaming industry, everybody sell your stock in nVidia, ATI, and Intel. Retailers like Best Buy and newegg.com might as well just close their doors before they start acquiring debt. It's all over. Goodbye PC Gaming, you will be missed.
akascream said:
I'd -almost- say this IS news worthy, only as a result of the high numbers...but really, EVERY big PC game will have thousands up thousands of people downloading it upon release. Do you really think Far Cry and UT2004 weren't downloaded in large quantities? Of course they were! UT has the advantage of being multiplayer, though...but that doesn't mean people didn't download it like crazy.
All big name PC games are downloaded in crazy numbers. It has become routine, sadly...and that is why many people are suggesting that this isn't news worthy. It is common, whether you like it or not. What exactly am I saying that you don't agree with? What I've stated is almost factual, at this point...how can you argue that? I am not suggesting that piracy is good nor am I trying to justify it.
I fully believe that Doom 3 will sell VERY well at retail, though. I'd say the smaller companies with 5,000 people downloading their games would be hurt more than Doom 3 with 50,000 people downloading...
And you don't think even that is news worthy? We are talking about thousands, even millions of dollars of murchandise being stolen over the web. Does it make a difference if these people would have purchased the game otherwise? no. Does it make a difference if the company will go under as a result? no. Thieves are prosecuted every day for stealing goods they would have otherwise not purchased. Why should this kind of stealing, especially on such a large scale, be ignored?
And keep in mind.. what isn't necessarily news to you, is to people that read BBC.
Heh, a reviewer on ISO news rated Doom3 as the best game ever after a couple of hours a play
then a few hours later wished he hadn't said that. Cause apparently doom 3 isn't very different from games of the early 90's: open door, shoot spawned monsters, find key, open new door.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17590
we'll see tomorrow but this isn't the first time I've heard this about the game.
then a few hours later wished he hadn't said that. Cause apparently doom 3 isn't very different from games of the early 90's: open door, shoot spawned monsters, find key, open new door.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17590
we'll see tomorrow but this isn't the first time I've heard this about the game.
akascream said:
These are computer games, though. That's part of the problem. Music and movies are a more mainstream form of entertainment, and even they don't recieve a whole lot of news time (the RIAA has pretty much destroyed the reputation as a result, BTW). How could you POSSIBLY expect ALL of these games to be reported consistantly on a news network? It just isn't important to them. All of the people in the know (the companies releasing this software) are fully aware of rampant piracy...so it isn't like they are being taken by suprise.
Steps are being taken against all forms of piracy, but it can't be crushed over night.
akascream said:
In all honesty, I also did not realize it was being stolen in such quantities until yesterday when someone posted three images from a bittorrent site on GA. I was shocked! There was like 47,000+ people downloading!
Here...
DSN2K said:
47, 260.....
thats alot.
Question is, what happens when that number is a lot bigger - say 500k... 50k was on bittorrent Only, and basically within a single day or so...dark10x said:
Bittorrent tracker servers keep statistics of all downloads, and that info is then usually displayed on sites that host bittorrent files alongside the files to give people an idea whether torrent is still active and how fast is it likely to be etc.akascream said:
Since these numbers were extraordinarily high for Doom3, people started talking about them.
Why is it shocking that it was being downloaded on a such a large scale? There are a number of reasons:
1) It was available online before it was available in store. Thus, to get it first, you actually were forced to take it rather than buy it. Sure, it's only an extra 4 days in the US, but it's a lot longer than that in Europe and other parts of the world, where sites like suprnova reside.
2) The game is a technical juggernaut, and as such, performance on any given person's machine is really unknown. The only way to find out for sure is to install the game and play it. And who wants to take the chance that the game is going to run at a crawl with no effects turned on? Solution: download it - then you lose nothing if it performs poorly.
There are plenty other reasons, but those are the important ones. The numbers shouldn't really surprise anyone.
1) It was available online before it was available in store. Thus, to get it first, you actually were forced to take it rather than buy it. Sure, it's only an extra 4 days in the US, but it's a lot longer than that in Europe and other parts of the world, where sites like suprnova reside.
2) The game is a technical juggernaut, and as such, performance on any given person's machine is really unknown. The only way to find out for sure is to install the game and play it. And who wants to take the chance that the game is going to run at a crawl with no effects turned on? Solution: download it - then you lose nothing if it performs poorly.
There are plenty other reasons, but those are the important ones. The numbers shouldn't really surprise anyone.
akascream said:
They don't CARE! I already told you!
Music and movies are much more popular forms of mainstream entertainment, and they already recieve very little NEWS coverage (with regards to piracy). I don't think computer games are big enough for that (and quite frankly, I think many news types would rather see computer games DIE).
Doom 3 IS being reported, though. I was shocked at the large numbers of people downloading it, but not suprised (I should have guessed). Like I said, ALL big PC games are downloaded by many people...and the larger a game is, the more people will download.
Let's summarize...
Piracy of computer games is VERY common.
The number of downloads per game is seemingly related to the anticipation of said game.
Companies are fully aware that this occurs and are attempting to find ways to stop it.
Computer games, in general, are not news worthy (especially anything in favor of them).
Music and movies are larger forms of entertainment and already recieve limited news time (though they have tried to throw out their own anti-piracy ads).
It is up to organizations within the software industry to take care of this. The RIAA and MPAA are doing what they can, and it's up to the SPA to take care of the software side of things.
Piracy is a global affair. What can those associations even do about global piracy?
Oh, and Doom 3 will not fail as a result of piracy...but it may be damaged by it.
akascream said:
When I said BBC was tipping off people about it being leaked, I wasn't kidding. That's all this story has served to do...let more people in on the downloading party. If I'm iD and Activision, I'd have rather had the BBC just shut the fuck up about it. Like dark said there's just nothing new being told here (aside from how big the game itself is), unless you're completely ignorant of the piracy scene. Christ, PC and other computer games have been the targets of piracy for over twenty years now...where's the story?
Which begs the question...how the hell did BBC know it was being leaked anyway??? Bet a few people in their offices are Doomin' it up even as we speak...
Now who is ignorant? I think there are plenty of honest people out there that would care if a company gets ripped off. Obviously the BBC disagrees with you. I think they are more qualified to decide what thier customers want. It is thier business afterall. But who knows.. maybe the armchair anylists at GA know better.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
I wouldn't be surprised if this publicity sounds a deathknell for tracker sites, while stopping BT would be hard, if they target all the trackers for "facilitating" piracy BT will become useless won't it?
akascream said:Now who is ignorant? I think there are plenty of honest people out there that would care if a company gets ripped off. Obviously the BBC disagrees with you. I think they are more qualified to decide what thier customers want. It is thier business afterall. But who knows.. maybe the armchair anylists at GA know better.
Oh for christ sake, why should I even respond when you CONSISTANTLY fail to address my entire point...
akascream said:
Because is not theft, but unhautirized manufacture.
Im not going to buy a Ferrari.
If I steal one, is one less car that can be sold, so a financial damage.
If I build an identical car on my own in my garage, it causes no damage to anyone.
Are you going to accuse me of stealing, if I build a copy of a Ferrari?
Piracy doesnt take away items, but creates more without authorization.
Since in this case the manufacture has not even the purpose of financial gain, it can be considered a form of sharing - the pirate allows others to use the item he owns / uses an item owned by someone else.
Like when you borrow a game to a friend, he play it to his heart content, and thus will not buy it. Same end result. Did both of you steal?
You let your wife watch your movies, so she doesnt have to buy another copy. Are you stealing?
Is imho essentially a disrespect of the will of who worked on the game, no more, no less.
And when considered how gladly the publisher will disrespect MY will of not being cheated (Hi fixed review scores, and no returns policy. Hi to a pile of games I bought and never played), I feel little simphaty.
Poorly reported, sensationalistic news.
The losses are reported incorrectly, the article gives an incorrect impression that other games arent pirated, and it has a whole End Of The Wold vibe, as this is an unexpected event that will financially ruin everyone involved with this game.
In other words, is tipically low quality information feed to the masses. No simphaty here either.
akascream said:
I already DID though, but you won't listen (quoting a line such as this suggests victory on my part, BTW).
Answer these questions...
Is the computer game industry bigger than the music and movie industry?
What good would informing people of computer game piracy do?
How do you propose we stop global piracy?
As mentioned above, I believe that COMPUTER games are nowhere near as large of an industry as movies or music. In the case of music and movie piracy, they already recieve MINIMAL news coverage...and most coverage is related to MAJOR cases against piracy, not "how many people are downloaing a movie?" stories. Piracy is very common, yet you seem to believe that the news should have room to cover piracy stories for many games. BBC covered this because it is among the biggest games being released this year. People are now aware that Doom 3 is EASILY AVAILABLE on the internet...and this was reported in a country where Doom 3 is not available at retail as of this moment.
There are other ways to go about informing people about piracy and attempting to stop it, but standard news reporting is not that way. It is not important news, and is given the amount of attention they feel it deserves (ie - very little).
Explain yourself in detail and answer those questions. You should also explain why you are getting so worked up over this issue. I do not condone piracy and am not suggesting it.
A single line answer is not good enough. I expect a detailed reply.
I'm not going to decend into the bowels of semantics with you dark10x. My only point is that this really is news. Maybe not to somebody that hangs out on bittorent sites and constantly is aware of pirate statistics. But to many gamers, and non-gamers, this is an interesting story about a couple companies (ID and Activistion) getting ripped off for millions of dollars.
A reputable news source has found this to be a worthy story. They make money providing people with information, and are more qualified then either of us to decide what should be reported. That you think nobody wants to know this is amusing, that you think nobody cares irrelevant. And the vengence in which you pursue this matter stinks of guilt.
Did you download Doom3 dark10x?
A reputable news source has found this to be a worthy story. They make money providing people with information, and are more qualified then either of us to decide what should be reported. That you think nobody wants to know this is amusing, that you think nobody cares irrelevant. And the vengence in which you pursue this matter stinks of guilt.
Did you download Doom3 dark10x?
akascream said:
Not true. Physical theft from a store hurts the manufacturer, the distributor, and the store quite a bit more than simply downloading it off the internet. This has been proven in numerous studies (not funded by the RIAA).
That being said, the "build a ferrari" in your garage is a very poor argument. The whole "lend your game to a friend" and "let your wife watch a movie with you" are both much more accurate descriptions of the same behavior.
akascream said:
No, I did not download Doom 3 and I will not download it. I am purchasing my copy this Tuesday at EB Games (with a discount even
).The fact that you would accuse me of pirating Doom 3 is extremely annoying to me. For the last time, I am NOT supporting piracy.
Exactly. Stealing a game from the internet is still theft, but it is entirely different from stealing a product from a retail store. You need to understand that, aka. They are both wrong, but they are different in severity. Do you understand?