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BBC reporting DOOM 3 leaked online
- Thread starter Pug
- Start date
akascream said:
Tenguman said:
Im not building the Ferrari from scratch.
Im not reinventing the wheel and combustion engine for the purpose, or rethinking the looks. Im copying them. Exactly like a copy of Doom.
The point is that copying a game is MANUFACTURE, not TEFTH, because AN ADDITIONAL ITEM IS PRODUCED, rather than AN EXISTING ONE BEING DISPLACED.
No amount of love for the omnious tone of the word "stealing", or desire to use it, will change this.
Is different from ganking a physical copy, for the reasons already exposed.
akascream said:
No, I did not download the Doom 3 alpha. I did, however, have the chance to test this out...but I did NOT download it from the internet. While I did play an illegal piece of software, my personal actions have caused no damage. I did not download anything illegal and I am buying the final product. Explain how my personal actions could have caused damage?
It was JUST EXPLAINED?!?!?! Can you NOT READ?!?!
You are still hurting the publisher and developer of the game, but there are more companies in the equation of game distribution...surely you realize that. Does that make no sense to you?
Answer my other questions.
Almost 50000 people downloading, that sounds like a lot. But you also have to put it in perspective. The number of people downloading is big because a lot of people obviously want to play it, have been waiting for it, have been hyping it. Don't you think sales will, in the same way, be very high too? I mean, why else would so many people at the same time decide to pirate Doom 3? Just a big coincidence? No, this is one of the biggest releases this year, probably even in the past couple of years.
I might agree that people download it because it's available before release, but it's not exactly the first time we've seen that happen.
I might agree that people download it because it's available before release, but it's not exactly the first time we've seen that happen.
akascream said:
I already answered above. I did not download the alpha.
You obviously can not read, though. Let me aid you...
Oh, and just in case you didn't realize, in the English language...theft is in reference to stealing. I'm not sure if English is your native language or not (if it is not, forgive me...as that would explain why you were unable to understand many of my points).
And what happens when companies start offering downloadable versions of thier retail product (aka HL2 via steam). What level of semantics will your desperate need for justification take you then?
Entirely meaning some retail chain. How many companies does it take to be 'the same'. What does it matter.. honestly.
akascream said:
Proof positive that Mr Scream simply isn't reading anything that dark is saying...
dark10x said:
Nevermind dark's repeated assertations that he's disappointed that Doom 3 has been leaked, and doesn't condone piracy. And yet you ask him this brainless question anyway? You're lucky I'm not dark.
I've got my own thoughts on piracy, but I'm gonna save them...for now. I'll just say that dark has been pretty much on point throughout the thread.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
Ar_ said:
I like the way you think. It's gonna be the number one excuse "I wasn't stealing i was just helping Id Software to increase their producing output by manufacturing my own copy."
Actually I like his idea on Ferrari thing too.Milhouse31 said:
After all, to build one, you need to get plans to build it first, and get this, you don't have to steal them either - you just need to manufacture your own copy of them
Last year, HL2 code wasn't stolen either, the pirates just manufactured their own version.
I addressed them when I told you I wouldn't decend into a debate in irrelevant details. The discussion then becomes whether or not:
As if that has any bearing on whether or not this story is newsworthy. If you want to discuss those matters, perhaps another thread would be in order?
Oh, that's too funny...
That first question is DIRECTLY related. This "attempt" at an argument is over.
You have failed to answer any of my questions, you have accused me of things that I CLEARLY AND REPEATEDLY expressed my disapproval of, and you simply ignore points that clearly fly in the face of your "arguments". Not only have you proven that you lack knowledge on this specific subject, you have proven that you do not even know how to properly argue. I tried to have patience and simply go with your "flow"...but I've had enough. Nothing I have stated is untrue, though the degrees of it can be argued, and you are the only one who seems to disagree (and you can't even explain WHY).
I enjoy these arguments, but you are clearly acting on pure emotion here...
I'm sorry, but I am insulted at some of the things you have insinuated. You make claims that hold no water and immediately back down upon being proven wrong. I have not downloaded Doom 3 in ANY FORM and will not download it. I do not support piracy and I actually AGREED with many of your initial claims. I presented my argument in a level headed manner that is easy to understand. What more could I do? You are doing nothing more than tossing around insults and accusations with no basis while FLAT OUT posting false information.
You admit this is theft and is wrong. What is being stolen is worth millions of dollars regardless of whether the thieves would have purchased the murchandise if they hadn't stolen it. Piracy, as admitted by you, is a larger problem than Doom 3, but the sheer numbers of people downloading this game is shocking. What about this isn't worthy of a news story?
And I'm sorry if this is an emotionally negative experience for you. I guess I was just suprised at how difficult it was to grasp such a simple concept. I tend to take common sense for granted.
I really got no beef with people who pirate any form of media, but those that can't come to grips with what they do, and try endlessly to euphamise it annoy me.
But it really doesn't matter, outside the RIAA most efforts seem to go against the distribtors of pirated material rather then the individuals.
But it really doesn't matter, outside the RIAA most efforts seem to go against the distribtors of pirated material rather then the individuals.
akascream said:You admit this is theft and is wrong. What is being stolen is worth millions of dollars regardless of whether the thieves would have purchased the murchandise if they hadn't stolen it. Piracy, as admitted by you, is a larger problem than Doom 3, but the sheer numbers of people downloading this game is shocking. What about this isn't worthy of a news story?
And I'm sorry if this is an emotionally negative experience for you. I guess I was just suprised at how difficult it was to grasp such a simple concept. I tend to take common sense for granted.
This is the last time...
First...
Can I call it or what?
Why isn't computer game piracy news worthy?
If you are so convinced that it is news worthy, call a news station and inform them of this crime...see if they deem it news worthy.
Ignorant is not necessarily an insult, though. I am not insulting your intelligence, rather, I was pointing out that you are uninformed on the situation being discussed. I was correct as well. Oh, and etcetera is typically abbreviated as "etc", not "ect".
You posted accusations which were clearly addressed earlier in the thread.
akascream said:
Same thing, Id call copying them an unhautorized use / reproduction, before than tefth.
From a certain point of view, they are similiar: in both you disrespect someones will and receive a gain from his work.
The degree of material damage varies.
When someone pirates a game that couldnt afford, or isnt interested in buying, the material damage is nil.
When done to determine if the game is worthy the price, may be considered fair. And when someone buys as many games as he can afford, and copyes the rest, hard to get mad at him as well.
If you like it more, you can think about the example of sharing the game you bought with your family.
You assume I believe you.
Does that really matter though? I imagine many people steal because they cannot afford to buy something, or because they want to make 100% profit off of stolen goods. In those cases, there is physical value in something.. but I'm saying that line is very thin here (cheap cardboard and cd's). And while it isn't tangable, there is still value in enjoying the game.. which is the whole point anyway, right?
A distinction made earlier is the retail chains, so I guess I could alter my argument. Would you consider stealing a physical copy of the game at an Activision warehouse to be worse than downloading a copy? The product isn't the cardboard or the cheap packaging or cd's. It's what is on them that is the actual product. Once you install a game, it is on your PC, and you only need the physical copy for piracy protection. Do the packaging and CD's really make that much difference?
akascream said:
So, you believe I've downloaded Doom 3?
If you need proof that I am buying this game, I bring that proof with me.
I have a copy reserved at...
Electronics Boutique #179
513-741-9381
When I pick it up tomorrow, I will tell them to expect a call asking whether or not Dark10x from Gaming-Age has purchased the game. Please, feel free to call them. In fact, I encourage and dare you to call them. Call that location on Wednesday, August 4th and they will be able to inform that I purchased the game the previous evening.
I have not downloaded Doom 3 and will not download Doom 3. Quite frankly, I'm starting to wonder if you have actually downloaded the game are just trying to overcome the guilt. I suprised that you downloaded the game, to be honest...but I shouldn't be suprised.
The Shadow
Member
Look, I think this "debate" is fairly dumb on both sides, but I can't let this statement go unchallenged.akascream said:
1) Copyright infringement is NOT theft. Repeat that to yourself until you understand the difference between the two.
2) Calculating the monetary impact of software piracy (or ANY kind of piracy, for that matter) is NOT as simple as multiplying the number of alleged downloads by the MSRP. There are at least THREE categories of people who would download brand-new pirated games that come to mind:
-- People who want something for free. ("Freeloaders")
-- People who already plan to buy the game when its available, but want to play before that time (waiting for a release date, waiting to have available funds, etc.). ("Previewers")
-- People who are not planning to buy the game, but would consider buying it if they enjoy playing the pirated version and consider it worth their money. ("Trial Runners")
"Freeloaders" are assholes, in my personal opinion, but you can't argue that everyone in that category represents a lost sale. Quite frankly, many of them wouldn't have bought the game under ANY circumstances -- either they don't have any disposable income for games, or they choose to game only because they can get away with ripping off the latest and greatest entertainment.
"Previewers" don't represent ANY lost sales, since they are going to buy the game ANYWAY. They are downloading the game because they are real enthusiasts, and if the game is excellent, can actually DRIVE word-of-mouth sales. Again, it's hard to make these people into bad guys, in my opinion.
"Trial Runners" are the most interesting category. If they try it and like it, then they actually represent an EXTRA sale for the developers. On the other hand, if they consider it to be "not worth my money," they won't buy it -- but they weren't planning on it anyway.
Since a certain percentage of "trial runners" (and "freeloaders") would have probably bought the game just to "take a chance on it being good," you could assess SOME financial impact from the availability of the pirated version. The X factor is how many people HONESTLY would be willing to spend the money to buy something they already have for free to "do the right thing." In other words, I think there is a strong, selfish instinct which tempts people into downloading something by thinking, "I'll try it, and if I like it, I'll buy it"...but once they have it, revert to thinking, "It's not REALLY worth my money," and continue to play it anyway.
In any event -- I hope it's QUITE clear that any quoted dollar figure for piracy is HIGHLY suspect without a shitload of supporting data. Also, a proper analysis would have to include sale price over time, because people may feel that Doom 3 (for instance) isn't worth $55 at release, but would be a worthwhile purchase at $40. Not all unit sales are equal from a revenue perspective.
There are many people that shoplift because they cannot afford something. That they would not have purchased what they stole otherwise does not make them innocent. If you want to get into which laws apply and argue the finer points, I am not your man. But it's clear to anyone that takes an unbiased look at piracy that it is indeed stealing. If there aren't laws to cover less tangable forms of property, like software, there should be. If they exist, but don't apply, they are insufficient IMO.
