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Berserk |OT| - Big men, bigger swords, OFF THE BOAT - Berserk #344 24/6/2016
- Thread starter EvilKatarn
- Start date
JadedWriter
Member
Him and Void were like, "Sacrifice your daughter or go to hell" to the count. Griffith's not even noble any more. Isn't this the first volume Griffith shows up in though? So it makes sense that he didn't nail down his character model yet.
Yeah, I know, I just still think it looks weird, especially when you're reading it in chronological order.
Griffith is an interdimensional angel of evil. The fuck would he need nobility for?
For real though, as much as Griffith is given during his transformation, there are things that are taken away from him, such as his ability to interact with the world. But more relevantly, empathy. I wasn't being figurative when I said Griffith no longer gives any fucks. He has no fucks to give because he is literally incapable of caring about others. He couldn't do it if he tried. He is utterly, actually fuckless. Unless you mean sex fucks, he will give those whether you want them or not. But no affection fucks. Supposedly, anyway.
JadedWriter
Member
I honestly think he either enjoyed the sex or at the very least enjoyed tormenting Guts with it. I can agree with him being fuckless, but I can imagine him taking some sort of back seat pleasure in making those suffer. I mean he didn't have to rape Caska, he could've just found some random survivor and bite his fucking head off in front of Guts and Caska, but nope, he rapes Caska, probably something that was swimming around in the back of his head for years, ever since he glanced at her bending over or something. Not only that he raped her slow and took the time out to fondle every square fucking inch of her in front of Guts. There's pleasure lurking around in Griffith, just not the kind of pleasure that benefits anybody else but Griffith.
Speculation on why he raped Caska have too much to do with spoilers in the future. Go read up to Volume 21 and then we'll talk more in detail.
But as far as his personality goes, he lacks the ability to feel empathy, not the ability to feel emotions. Those are two different things. Slan in particular is very sensuous and seems to swim in the havok of emotions (regardless of what they are), but does not feel with them. And Ubik clearly enjoys mindfucking Griffith before the final choice is made. Void and Conrad are somewhat reserved, but it's clear the Godhand can feel emotions. And while it's unknown whether other Apostles go through the exact same removal of empathy, if they do, it's clear they still are capable of doing humane things.
I can comment a little on Griffith's regard of Caska though. Griffith never lusted after Caska to any large extent that I've seen pre-eclipse. If anything, he was largely asexual, since any time he had sex, it was for pragmatic purposes. He used the Baron to fund his army, and he used Charlotte to gain a kingdom, or atleast attempted to. The closest thing he pursued for pure sexual pleasure was the naked water fight with Guts. Otherwise, with caska...he more enjoyed having her utter devotion. He gets off on control more than anything, so it could be interpreted that his rape of Caska was him asserting his utter domination over the two most important members of the Band to him one last time. There's definitely an element of sadism, but neither empathy, nor strictly out of character for who Griffith was before he became Femto. His desire to control just manifested itself in a new way.
But as far as his personality goes, he lacks the ability to feel empathy, not the ability to feel emotions. Those are two different things. Slan in particular is very sensuous and seems to swim in the havok of emotions (regardless of what they are), but does not feel with them. And Ubik clearly enjoys mindfucking Griffith before the final choice is made. Void and Conrad are somewhat reserved, but it's clear the Godhand can feel emotions. And while it's unknown whether other Apostles go through the exact same removal of empathy, if they do, it's clear they still are capable of doing humane things.
I can comment a little on Griffith's regard of Caska though. Griffith never lusted after Caska to any large extent that I've seen pre-eclipse. If anything, he was largely asexual, since any time he had sex, it was for pragmatic purposes. He used the Baron to fund his army, and he used Charlotte to gain a kingdom, or atleast attempted to. The closest thing he pursued for pure sexual pleasure was the naked water fight with Guts. Otherwise, with caska...he more enjoyed having her utter devotion. He gets off on control more than anything, so it could be interpreted that his rape of Caska was him asserting his utter domination over the two most important members of the Band to him one last time. There's definitely an element of sadism, but neither empathy, nor strictly out of character for who Griffith was before he became Femto. His desire to control just manifested itself in a new way.
JadedWriter
Member
I'm going as fast as I can with this but sadly I'm not resting on the outskirts between reality and hell and can only be bothered to respond to people with screaming Behelits but I'll get there in due time I guess. I like the idea of Griffith as a sadist, but as has been revealed here dozens of times already the dude's complex. Makes him fun to discuss though since I'll probably come to some other realization with him the more I see of him. He seems to like putting down Guts though. I mean he doesn't really need to since as far as it seems right now he won. As you said he's an angel of evil, Guts can't do shit to him no matter how hard he tries and sneezed away his cannon, probably saved his life or was just toying with the guy when the demonkind almost whisked him away. It still seems like he gleams a fragment of pleasure from toying with people. While on the topic of Slan do I get more insight into Rated X Morrigan?
For the most part, no unfortunately. You do get a scene of her sorta trying to rape Guts, but that's pretty much it, nothing that delves into her character. The other Godhand are as much of a mystery now as they were introduced, except for maybe Void, who you get a few details on. Which is a shame, as I'd be really interested in seeing all their Eclipses.
I still have no idea how Guts can possibly do anything to Griffith even now, with all the upgrades he got. Skull Knight is the only one who has powers even approaching the Godhand, and even he hasn't landed a solid hit yet.
I still have no idea how Guts can possibly do anything to Griffith even now, with all the upgrades he got. Skull Knight is the only one who has powers even approaching the Godhand, and even he hasn't landed a solid hit yet.
JadedWriter
Member
Well that sucks, Slan seems like she'd actually have an interesting backstory? Do they even tell you how they determine the God Hand forms? I mean Griffith in some way was molded after his armor but that's all I can really think of, I guess he also has skeletal bird wings and not bat wings like Slan does. Still can't believe Skull Knight is good cause I had him pegged as evil on sight. Yeah I did briefly read that Guts gets upgrades, I guess he Mega Mans through the manga chapters.
JadedWriter
Member
So he's just in an action RPG it sounds like...a really bloody one, dude's in Bloodborne. No I wouldn't trust skull knight if he crashed through my door, I'd shit myself to death.
JadedWriter
Member
They really do, though it seems like segments of Berserk are sprinkled in all of the games. I think whatever hound type thing that's in Berserk is a boss in Bloodborne at least design wise. I don't think the Berserk creature spits fire.
JadedWriter
Member
Both are so good, but try Demons cause it's cheaper and the atmosphere is a lot darker in general. It's also a bit easier in spots...but only if you're a Souls game veteran. Either one is a good enough challenge for the inexperienced. Just keep an eye on equip burden, you want to stay as mobile as possible.
I did play Dark Souls for an hour or so on PC before giving up for the time.
I remember walking up to the first boss from way above the castle, looking down. He was staring up at me, and I realized this was a small mercy from the game, allowing me to get the first hit in, but I wanted to check all of my options before engaging. To my surprise, motherfucker jumped up and knocked my shit down, killing my instantly. I laughed at that, congratulating the game for successfully getting me.
Another point was the point right after the intro level, I met up with that one guy from where the eagle or whatever drops you off. He annoyed me, so I attacked him repeatedly, thinking I'd kill him easily gaining some loot. Turns out he is several levels above me. He killed me for 20 minutes (but since I revived next to him, I always managed to get my souls back), until I decided "fuck it" and just pushed him off the cliff.
Lastly, I remember a player invading my game. Now, I'm told that there is a level cap of what level players can invade, but I think the guy was using a mod of some kind, because I was doing ZERO damage to him with 20 hits (he mostly just circled around me, trying to parry, and killed me in one hit when he finally did). That's the point where I stopped, because I thought that was unfair, but I'm not sure how to prevent something like that. I don't like the concept of invasion in general, tbh. I'm gonna see if there is a mod where I can prevent it while still getting notes, because if I just want to play a game, I don't want a way more experienced player just destroying me when I can't do anything about it. Even without the disparity between levels, I don't like the idea of having to fight other players when I don't want to.
I remember walking up to the first boss from way above the castle, looking down. He was staring up at me, and I realized this was a small mercy from the game, allowing me to get the first hit in, but I wanted to check all of my options before engaging. To my surprise, motherfucker jumped up and knocked my shit down, killing my instantly. I laughed at that, congratulating the game for successfully getting me.
Another point was the point right after the intro level, I met up with that one guy from where the eagle or whatever drops you off. He annoyed me, so I attacked him repeatedly, thinking I'd kill him easily gaining some loot. Turns out he is several levels above me. He killed me for 20 minutes (but since I revived next to him, I always managed to get my souls back), until I decided "fuck it" and just pushed him off the cliff.
Lastly, I remember a player invading my game. Now, I'm told that there is a level cap of what level players can invade, but I think the guy was using a mod of some kind, because I was doing ZERO damage to him with 20 hits (he mostly just circled around me, trying to parry, and killed me in one hit when he finally did). That's the point where I stopped, because I thought that was unfair, but I'm not sure how to prevent something like that. I don't like the concept of invasion in general, tbh. I'm gonna see if there is a mod where I can prevent it while still getting notes, because if I just want to play a game, I don't want a way more experienced player just destroying me when I can't do anything about it. Even without the disparity between levels, I don't like the idea of having to fight other players when I don't want to.
JadedWriter
Member
If you don't want to get invaded play in dead form, I rarely play in body form. It takes a bit, I usually play while consorting a video guide, helps a lot until you learn the ropes. For non invasions just play Demons Souls. The community isn't exactly dead, but it's not bustling either.
RadioHeadAche
Member
Skull Knight we got some possible hint, maybe, at least, but I would love to know where the other God Hand members originated. Void, in particular
It is somewhat implied that Skull King and Void are
Emperor Gaiseric and the imprisoned "holy man", no?
True Savior
Member
Good or bad (i passionately dislike the movies), i tend to hate this creative decisions because they undermine the author intent. The scene plays out totally different than its original purpose. Why ? Griffith goes there on an impulse and then takes advantage of the situation when Charlotte asks him "Why didnt you come earlier ? " . He has this blank expression throughout it . They transform his unemotionality in a passionate erotic encounter. His emotion comes when thinking about Guts while he has sex with her.
And if im remembering correctly they also changed the Caska scene that is cross-cut during that scene. For no reason whatsoever.
Small nuances like him leaving behind the small object she gave him
are cut for the sake of cutting. The entire movie-adaptation is this.. They literally remove any nuance or character behavior for the sake of events. This one is a raunchy gratuitous sex scene.
JadedWriter
Member
Even trees kill people in Berserk...lol.
RadioHeadAche
Member
I'm in the middle of book 23 now, so I don't know about the latter. Now that you mention it, I do remember someone mentioning some kind of hint to Void's origins.
If you have a PS3 and the funds, play Demon's first but make sure you still play Dark Souls though. Although they're very similar games, they're different enough to make it worth playing both. Dark Souls does some things Demon's does badly better and vice versa.
Also, when you've finished and you're confused about what just happened to you visit the myriad of Youtubers who have tons of lore videos.
JadedWriter
Member
He needs to check out Epicnamebro vids. Dark has better interconnected levels and Demon's has darker atmosphere. Combat is very similar though but the healing is handled differently.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I'd say Demon's has the most Berserk influence, although the Dark Sign in Dark Souls is essentially the Brand. Well until Dark Souls 3 which is very, very clearly being inspired by Berserk, even more so then before. Miyazaki mentions it by name in an early interview.
JadedWriter
Member
I hope Dark Souls 3 has bosses clearly designed after the God Hand.
DS3 looks really Bloodborne-y to me. Which was Berserk meets Eldritch horror, so that fine with me!
See Bloodborne's take on The Brand.
JadedWriter
Member
Yeah I've seen people make that comparison when the game was released. I love seeing the parallels in these two franchises, which is funny cause I'm practically spent most of this year playing Souls games and now reading Berserk.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
Had a debate with a friend whether Rickert's or Gutt's RPG party would win in a fight. I went with Rickert's.
Werewolf Jones
Member
Guts solos.
JadedWriter
Member
I'm on volume 16 and I haven't seen Guts use team tactics since the Band of the Hawk got turned into a Thanksgiving feast.
You're still in the early stages, young one. Gut's group doesn't really become his group until the 20's. Though I don't think I've ever seen him use team tactics, even Pre-eclipse. He was always a solo army with everyone else just helping out by fighting their own battles.
Though if I'm correct, the next arc is the last of "Gut's Vengeance Filled Super Fun Time" adventures. Shit starts going down once the Holy See comes in.
That said, while I like a lot of what the next arc accomplishes, I always felt the villain was the weakest Berserk produced, and looked pretty silly to boot.
I mean, just look at him. Miura usually makes expert artistic designs, but this....eh.
JadedWriter
Member
Thank god the next arc is better I wasn't really enjoying the "Guts smashes magical fairies" arc I'm currently on now. Granted he has a nice throw down with pre pubescent tittie Mothra, but that's about it so far. Regarding Guts and team tactics he did have a nice joint fight with Caska I believe.
I actually really like Fairy arc, as I like that Rosie is actually a somewhat complex villain, or that it's atleast a somewhat complex situation that Gut's is put in. I mean, on one hand, she's clearly an apostle, terrorizing a town, doing evil shit and so on. On the other hand, she is and forever will be a child. She gets a lot of character development and even tries to form an active relationship with one of the characters that's actually benevolent. It doesn't mean she's any less murderous, but having the Bloodthirsty Guts pitted against a child that's as every bit as dangerous and hostile as any other monster that's still...you know a child, is the kind of grey area that Berserk excels at.
I would compare it favorably to the next arc for that reason, as the villain is much more of a straightforward bad guy that doesn't even look all that cool. And keep in mind, I didn't say the next one was better, mind you, so much as I said that it is the catalyst for a lot of changes that come to be. But you might like it better, who knows. There is a lot of stuff that goes on. Guts gets character development, he starts developing relationships again, there's a really cool SPOILER thing that happens. I would just argue that the villain is probably the worst outside maybe the very first guy Guts faced (the cobra dude). Mozgus sucks.
I would compare it favorably to the next arc for that reason, as the villain is much more of a straightforward bad guy that doesn't even look all that cool. And keep in mind, I didn't say the next one was better, mind you, so much as I said that it is the catalyst for a lot of changes that come to be. But you might like it better, who knows. There is a lot of stuff that goes on. Guts gets character development, he starts developing relationships again, there's a really cool SPOILER thing that happens. I would just argue that the villain is probably the worst outside maybe the very first guy Guts faced (the cobra dude). Mozgus sucks.
JadedWriter
Member
Rosie seems to be friends with Jill. Yeah Guts did seem to be effected by fighting Rosie since he was shocked that he couldn't just end her in a split second and kept missing some kill opportunities, didn't keep the man from using Jill as a diversion to impale her right in front of Jill or smack her aside as she was trying to protect Rosie. I mean Rosie has to die, but you shouldn't be torturing a little girl right in front of a little girl you saved a couple of days agon Guts. I don't exactly hate the arc, just don't like the fight scenes. Just to get my terminology clear apostles are higher ranked demons that used to be humans that were transformed by the God Hand? I'm going to assume she's a newer one than the Count cause the Count was made pre Eclipse cause there were only 4 God Hand members when he was created...that and he did tear Pippin in half right if front of Guts so that does clarify that one for me.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
I dug the Lost Children arc. I thought I was desensitized by that point but then adult attack.
It was another "Fuck, I have to harden my heart to do this or I'm gonna die" moment for Guts. As awesome as Guts is, even he has limits as to how much of a killing machine he can be, and he has been known to have a soft spot for children.
It had one of my favorite action moments of the series though. When Rosie comes at him with her stabber, she actually manages to impale him...only to show that he actually turned his head, and she merely ran her horn thing through his cheeks. I thought that was cool.
It had one of my favorite action moments of the series though. When Rosie comes at him with her stabber, she actually manages to impale him...only to show that he actually turned his head, and she merely ran her horn thing through his cheeks. I thought that was cool.
Demons Souls gives the best atmosphere of Berserk to me. Berserk to me is oppressive and devoid of fucks given. Demons Souls to a tee. Dark Souls if anything is more hope driven so it is somewhat told from Guts-like perspective. Become strong and find the truth behind the curse and break the shackles of it. Meet people, if you so choose, along the way.
JadedWriter
Member
That stab through the cheek part was fucking bad ass I do agree on that one. I was like, "Guts really doesn't care for body preservation does he?" while I was reading that. I actually think Guts is nicer than he was at the beginning actually...granted that man had no love at all for the Count.
There are no Sun Bros in Demons Souls, it's all about praise the dank, dark shadows. I'd love to see Veelk's write up on Latria.
I never liked how they revealed that Rosie was part of the Eclipse and almost killed Rickert so I was in "Fuck this Bitch" mode when the arc began. Tho I did struggled with Gutz killing the elf demons thinking there was a way to revert things.
JadedWriter
Member
Lady Farnesse is getting some rather "interesting" character development currently.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
At first Mozgus definitely did look odd and didn't seem to fit in with all the other character designs, but looking back, his appearance was one of the main reasons why he's so memorable. I also appreciated the fact that
they showed us why his face was the way it was.
RadioHeadAche
Member
I thought Mozgus was
By the way, the end of the conviction arc has a really great scene.
an apostle before the egg of the new world made him a pseudo one.
Guy looks stupid, but some of those looks are seriously freaky.
Guy looks stupid, but some of those looks are seriously freaky.
By the way, the end of the conviction arc has a really great scene.
True Savior
Member
Why do you say he looks stupid ? There's a very particular reason why he looks like that. Which only makes it scarier.
Werewolf Jones
Member
Mozgus just looks like an angry minion.
RadioHeadAche
Member
Because as far as Berserk villains/demons/vile things are concerned, he looks pretty silly.
Piously smashing yourself into a floor doesn't make it less so.
Elfforkusu
Member
re: Most recent chapter...
Rickert building quite the squad.
Rickert building quite the squad.
DrunkShogun
Member
I thinks all berserk villains work in the story arc they represent. Zodd and Archer apostle are the best. Worst is the snake apostle because he had little to do.