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Bethesda On Starfield's Big, Empty Planets: Not Every Location "Is Supposed To Be Disney World"

I really thought Bethesda was aiming for this, I was wrong
It's kind of a chicken/egg situation with them and their engine. We will never know the truth until they release a behind the scenes year(s) from now stating if their intent was to have the space exploration more like No Man's Sky or not, and if they simply weren't able to do it or simply didn't want to do it that way.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
I still think a lot of you are forgetting that starfield is the only space rpg that keeps all your choices and action and actually changes outcomes and interactions. It’s the only one that enemies remember and act across zones and areas and will actively seek you out in the universe.


It’s exactly what cyberpunk was downed for not being.
 
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Romulus

Member
I still think a lot of you are forgetting that starfield is the only space rpg that keeps all your choices and action and actually changes outcomes and interactions. It’s the only one that enemies remember and act across zones and areas and will actively seek you out in the universe.


It’s exactly what cyberpunk was downed for not being.


What do you mean? Like they spawn where you are after a set number of hours of gameplay like the fallout games did?
 

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
It’ll be interesting to see how the overhaul and changes to CP2077 will stack up to starfield. CP2077 on launch was messy too but I remember liking it a lot right out of the gate where SF I was not for 10-12 hours.

Pretty comparable games in terms of gameplay and approach to gameplay loops.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Fixed, for me.

It sounds like I should play this game more like Mass Effect: Talk to people in town/find quest organically, Select quest, select destination, fast travel to destination, play current quest/mission with very little deviation, complete quest.

The spaceship stuff, the quests, and the land stuff seem disjointed enough from each other in a way that it’s probably the better idea. The ones here who are getting the most upset are the ones randomly exploring planets and treating the game like Space Skyrim or NMS.

In order to not frustrate myself like others on launch day, I will have new quests lead me to new planets rather than the other way around.
Not really fair… I mean it is bot really fair to ask people bot to play/expect Space Skyrim…
 
Not really fair… I mean it is not really fair to ask people not to play/expect Space Skyrim…
You're right, but there's nothing we can do at this point. The game has it's own preferred way of being played and it deviates a ton from the way Skyrim was set up. If anything, people should be spreading the word about this, because there's going to be more and more displeased Skyrim fans not understanding Starfield's gameplay loop to their own detriment.
 

coffinbirth

Member
Look, I'm not saying you are wrong, you are merely doing a bad job selling this to anyone and explaining your point based on how we know the term "exploration" is used. Like, you fight a space ship, disable it, board the ship, kill everyone and steal the shit...consider you can search this ship, one can define this as "exploration" as something that was odd, unusual and out of no where happened and now you are on a ship searching around.

You can find loot, you can steal the ship, you can start a whole ass quest where you find some kid on board that doesn't know you wrecked his whole family and now you must lie to the kid and hold on to this dark secret lol I fucking joke, but there is point I'm making here...look at how that just opened up a whole ass narrative to support a random side quest all cause you explored a ship.

Though I'm not sure if any such mission exist or even if any mission starts after you board a ship (it fucking should btw or they fucked up MASSIVELY), such things can support this idea of exploring space, even if you go thru some loading screens or something lol

So you are not wrong Coffin, but neither is Heisenberg007 Heisenberg007 . There is a level of expectation that exploration would exist in space to offer some gameplay element, narrative etc.

The game is after all called "STAR"field
I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone. I responded to someone saying this game doesn't have space exploration, which is obviously untrue. People pretending we didn't know how the spaceship system worked either haven't been paying attention for the last year, or, such as the case here, arguing semantics in bad faith. Did people really think this was going to be Star Citizen or something? LMAO gamers in 2023.

There is a level of expectation that exploration would exist in space to offer some gameplay element, narrative etc.
Are also you under the impression this isn't the case? There is an entire faction devoted to exploring uncharted planets, travelling to them, scanning their biomes, going to the surface, scanning flora and fauna, harvesting their resources to use for crafting new medicines, etc.

How is that NOT space exploration?

Why are people so eager to hate this game?
 
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coffinbirth

Member
Why are you responding to me and stalking me instead of playing said game? 🤔
giphy.gif

Warriors making this ignore list grow, lmao.
 
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How is that NOT space exploration?

Why are people so eager to hate this game?
To play devil's advocate, I think the larger crowd here just wanted this to feel more seamless, like NMS, and less disjointed/loading screens like Mass Effect. Constantly loading into zones feels less like space exploration and more like picking a new map on a multiplayer game like Halo or something.

I'm personally fine with the latter considering how story-heavy this game is going to be, like Mass Effect.
 

coffinbirth

Member
To play devil's advocate, I think the larger crowd here just wanted this to feel more seamless, like NMS, and less disjointed/loading screens like Mass Effect. Constantly loading into zones feels less like space exploration and more like picking a new map on a multiplayer game like Halo or something.

I'm personally fine with the latter considering how story-heavy this game is going to be, like Mass Effect.
Yeah, I quickly got over that. It's downright merciful when staring down the content barrel. Ironically, the landing and departing stuff in NMS quickly became a novelty and time killer for me, personally. If you were to transplant all of the content and systems of Starfield into the framework of NMS, you would probably have the best game ever.
 
Warriors making this ignore list grow, lmao.
Also on a side note, try not to let it bother you too much. Next thing you know you'll be playing Forum Battle Royale like a few other posters here, blocking people left and right if they didn't make it into the circle. You'll end up accidentally blocking posters like myself just because we said the wrong thing once, and I don't hold any issues or malice with anyone here, no matter how much we argue.

I don't know how the forum experience would look on your end when doing this, but I can't imagine it would be any fun due to being, well... empty.
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
What’s the better space game ? No man’s sky.

What’s the better space rpg ? Toss up between this and mass effect probably.
Here's the issue:

NMS came out in 2016.

Mass Effect in 2007, last part in 2012 (let's not count Andromeda)

So you have a game that is unable to push the envelope vs. a game that is 7 years old, and another that is at least 11 years old.

WTF has Bethesda been doing for the last decade, apart from re-mastering Skyrim all the time?

Even the closest comparison - Witcher 3 - showed that you can have open world and a great store / side content. Yes, there was some copy-paste with monster contracts, but vast majority of quests were really unique (and some as the Baron's or the 3 Crones were talked about for years to come). That game came out in 2015.

Again - WTF has Bethesda been doing for the last decade, apart from re-mastering Skyrim all the time?
 
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Yerd

Member
The main quest brings you to mars then venus. I went off the path and explored mars for a bit and discovered an abandoned listening post. Later on down the line, I landed on venus, wasn't part of the quest, and explored there a bit and came across another abandoned listening post. It had the exact same layout, the same item placement, the same bad guys. That was my first indication that the game needed more time, or a different approach to how we encounter these locations. I suspect if I come across another abandoned listening post it's going to be the same no matter what planet.

It's disappointing, but the game is still fun outside of that. Exploring has less of an impact when it's the same thing over and over.
 
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anthraticus

Banned
Realism is just a convenient excuse for making a barren game with copy paste content all over the place. It's a videogame! You has the chance to put your own creative spin on space! Making it real is boring as shit. What's the point in it? Imagine how much better this game could have been?
Exactly. Bethesda's banal and shitty vision of the future is pretty much exactly what I was expecting from them though.
 

Eotheod

Member
It is incredibly hard to determine what is legitimate criticism, and what is fanatical responses (on either side of the console "wars") to a game that either isn't on their console or not what they hyped up.

I'm seeing it not just in enthusiast boards, but also in the reviews which is difficult to really make sense of what the game offers. I don't doubt it's a good game, even Fallout 4 was a good game, I just didn't like it enough to go past 13 hours of it. Granted Starfield has a lot more going for me in that it is a space opera and I love those types of RPG's.

I do wish critics would be able to separate the childish war-like mentality of "winning" and such, instead providing in-depth discussion on what works and doesn't work. Take for example the whole empty space planet aspect, one could easily say that's an intended design aesthetic to increase the atmospheric nature of the game being that it is in space. On the other hand, it could have been developer limitations or unexpected consequences of a system they chose.

I guess, like all games, the truth of what it can offer and what enjoyment you get out of it will be as simple as playing to determine.
 
Because then it shifts from a "space exploration game" to a "space teleportation game."
What possible gaming satisfaction would continuously manually landing on a planet give you? Once or twice and you'd use the teleport button 🤣
Here's the issue:

NMS came out in 2016.

Mass Effect in 2007, last part in 2012 (let's not count Andromeda)

So you have a game that is unable to push the envelope vs. a game that is 7 years old, and another that is at least 11 years old.

WTF has Bethesda been doing for the last decade, apart from re-mastering Skyrim all the time?

Even the closest comparison - Witcher 3 - showed that you can have open world and a great store / side content. Yes, there was some copy-paste with monster contracts, but vast majority of quests were really unique (and some as the Baron's or the 3 Crones were talked about for years to come). That game came out in 2015.

Again - WTF has Bethesda been doing for the last decade, apart from re-mastering Skyrim all the time?
I tell you what why don't you actually play the game and see the incredible amount of work that has gone into Starfield before posting absolute rubbish. Also you're sporting a Cyberpunk avatar for crying out loud 😆
 

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone
I mean you are not trying to actually PROVE the point....
I responded to someone saying this game doesn't have space exploration, which is obviously untrue.
smh, you've spent more time saying this, then actually proving anything....you are just saying "untrue" yet not really proving anything with actual facts, logic, evidence etc.
There is an entire faction devoted to exploring uncharted planets, travelling to them, scanning their biomes, going to the surface, scanning flora and fauna, harvesting their resources to use for crafting new medicines, etc.

How is that NOT space exploration?
Sooooo yea, I want you to read very carefully what you just said....none of that shit has anything to do with "space" that has more to do with the fucking planet, then it does anything about space

Sir...you can do a lot of what you just stated in Metroid Prime, a game where clearly its not about you flying to different planets, merely being on a planet after a cut scene of a ship crashing, what you are talking about is exploring THE PLANET.

So this means the point stands. Space Exploration as far as I can see, is limited to raiding a ship you just disabled and its sounding like that pretty much is it.... if there is anything more that can be done in space to support "SPACE exploration" , you are not doing a great job at actually proving it
Why are people so eager to hate this game?

Nah, you keep resulting to making this a personal thing anytime someone makes a valid point about this fucking game.

I'm telling you this and I own the fucking game sir...

pOYi583.png
 

Gambit2483

Member
Is this game like Halo Infinite? Everyone praises it but in 1 month time everyone finds out how shit it is? Still wanna try it for myself tho, I finished Halo Infinite, but it was a 6/10 at best.
Bethesda games usually settle pretty well once everyone accepts and gets past the jank and limitations of what it can't do and focus on what it excels at, which apparentlty is it's emergent events/side quests and an amazing new game+.

And that's before we consider what the modding community will do to improve the game. All this to say, no, It most likely won't suffer the same fate as Halo Infinite.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Bethesda games usually settle pretty well once everyone accepts and gets past the jank and limitations of what it can't do and focus on what it excels at, which apparentlty is it's emergent events/side quests and an amazing new game+.

And that's before we consider what the modding community will do to improve the game. All this to say, no, It most likely won't suffer the same fate as Halo Infinite.
ryan reynolds hd GIF
 

fallingdove

Member
I'm actually glad Bethesda went the route they did. I didn't want to play another fantasy game set in space like Mass Effect or Star Wars where a bipedal alien that just looks like a human in green paint talks to you in a New York accent and tells you the fate of the universe rests on your shoulders. If that's what you want, those games exist and are a dime a dozen.
So instead you prefer hundreds of empty planets with copy/pasted outposts and identical enemy placement. Gotcha.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Nah give it a try. Stick to main missions and side activity. Its quite something the amount of bespoke content they did. Treat planets like resoource gathering spots.
I'm thinking of waiting some more time, hoping the game improves its QoL features. It'll also be discounted in a few months, so a win-win for me.

My only interest in this game was the possibility of living my Firefly fantasy. It seems very limiting in that regard. My next hope is Star Wars Outlaw.

On the side note, if anybody else knows of another game that allows players to live their Firefly fantasy, PLEASE do share. I'd be so grateful.
 

ryzen1

Member
I really like Starfield so far. But the exploration is super annoying.
The "exploration" is just clicking through menus and watching loading screens/animations.

Stupidity at the highest level was a mission where I had to repair 3 or 4 satellites in 4 different locations.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 1, kill 4 enemies ships, repair satellite.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 2, kill 4 enemies ships, repair another satellite.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 3, kill 4 enemies ships, repair fucking satellite.
Click through menues, fast travel to system 4, kill 4 enemies ships, repair another fucking satellite.

At least let me "explore" the planet I'm visiting with my ship. Do I really have to WALK accross the whole planet?!
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
To play devil's advocate, I think the larger crowd here just wanted this to feel more seamless, like NMS, and less disjointed/loading screens like Mass Effect. Constantly loading into zones feels less like space exploration and more like picking a new map on a multiplayer game like Halo or something.

I'm personally fine with the latter considering how story-heavy this game is going to be, like Mass Effect.
One could also expect a next-generation only game by the inventors of Direct Storage would… make great use of it and have seamless loading or much much shorter loading pauses too, but we need to accept this is not really a next-generation only game. It likely has a PS4 port running almost decently (not sure on Xbox One)… possibly only made next-generation only fairly recently (as in the last 2-3 or so years).
 

Bernardougf

Member
The problem is that, like Halo, the game isn't on Playstation.

That's where all of this "concern" is coming from.


Meanwhile those who are actually playing the game are having a blast.
Or maybe when you have jack shit to play for months and months of empty promises.. anything remotely barely competent will do the trick
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
This sounds weird.

If an RPG will not allow you to live a fantasy, how will an action game do it?
If I'm not mistaken, Star Wars Outlaw is supposed to be more like an RPG where you can make different choices with consequences. It also has the 'outlaw' element and seamless planetary exploration and space exploration.

We have limited information, so I'm not 100% confident if it'll be a good fit or not. I said, it is my next hope. It can also fail to deliver like Starfield for me. We'll wait and see. I hope it does deliver, though.
 

nkarafo

Member
I actually agree with this point. Empty spaces exist in the real world and not all places have something interesting for you to interact with. The world isn't made with you in mind.

Now sure, video games are not the real world and are made for you to have fun. But some games try to simulate certain things. Some try to simulate vast worlds. And vast worlds need some emptiness between occupied spaces to simulate distance and isolation between them. I rather have that than some stupid busy work every 5 meters, like those dreaded korok puzzles in the recent Zelda games.
 
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kuncol02

Banned
25 hours to walk around a planet.......

I know I don't have that kind of time.
That means that planet is ~15km in diameter if it's really walking and not running. Even if we assume it's 100% sprint then it's still ~150km diameter, 1/10 of pluto. Walk around "planet".
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
If I'm not mistaken, Star Wars Outlaw is supposed to be more like an RPG where you can make different choices with consequences. It also has the 'outlaw' element and seamless planetary exploration and space exploration.

We have limited information, so I'm not 100% confident if it'll be a good fit or not. I said, it is my next hope. It can also fail to deliver like Starfield for me. We'll wait and see. I hope it does deliver, though.
So now starfield and elderscrolls are games that don’t have consequences for your choices!? 😂😂
 
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RoadHazard

Gold Member
It's kind of a chicken/egg situation with them and their engine. We will never know the truth until they release a behind the scenes year(s) from now stating if their intent was to have the space exploration more like No Man's Sky or not, and if they simply weren't able to do it or simply didn't want to do it that way.

With how many load screens there are (to get into or leave your ship, to enter a city, to enter buildings inside cities, etc), I can only assume their engine simply isn't capable of seamlessly streaming in different parts of an environment. Pretty much all other modern open world engines do that, including the Zelda engine on Switch. The only thing you have to load into there is shrines. Now, sure, the level of detail is much lower in that game, but the Switch is ancient hardware without anything like the fast storage the Xbox Series consoles have.

That's not specifically about space exploration, but given how everything is sectioned off even when on a planet it definitely seems like it's an engine limitation rather than them not wanting to do it that way. If they could I'm sure they would have, but it would probably require rebuilding the entire core of their engine from the ground up.
 

MetalRain

Member
Previous Bethesda games were so cramped it feels they really wanted to show "we can do large worlds", even on habitated planets or large cities there is just so much space. Almost like too much space.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Previous Bethesda games were so cramped it feels they really wanted to show "we can do large worlds", even on habitated planets or large cities there is just so much space. Almost like too much space.

When I first went to new antlantis I had no idea you could go outside the city. Lol

And then after that I realized you could land anywhere on planets. 🤣
 

Lokaum D+

Member
Previous Bethesda games were so cramped it feels they really wanted to show "we can do large worlds", even on habitated planets or large cities there is just so much space. Almost like too much space.
its not like "we can do large worlds", its more like " our procedural tech can do large and empty worlds cause we dont want to handcraft this shit"
 
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