Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Is "major Talbot" a reference to the character in Marvel or is that just a coincidence? I don't know how common that name is.
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Better Call Saul S2 |OT| The Truth Is Just A Point Of View - Mondays 10/9c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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Grinchy
Banned
I agree. Chuck may have his problems with Jimmy, but he had every right to hold onto the client. Kim brought the client to the company. Chuck wanted Kim to stay, but Howard forced her out. Chuck wanting to keep the client isn't the same as Chuck wanting to screw over Kim (and by association, Jimmy).
Even if Kim were just a random guy who worked at the company who quit and tried to pull away a massive client, Chuck would have strongly wanted to keep that from happening.
Chuck went out of his way making himself very sick to keep a client Kim brought in. I don't think he was simply doing his job because he has been hands off with the company for awhile.
This and him seemingly not caring too much that they lost the client until Howard mentioned the Kim and Jimmy sharing an office. If I'm remembering correctly, it seemed like he sprung up and into his closet immediately after hearing that.
Exactly. Like I said; he's still doing things in a perfectly legal capacity, as is expected of him, and the assumption that a bigger law team could handle the case better than just a solo practitioner could is a reasonable counter argument (which Kim even acknowledged before Mesa Verde were swayed over). It's the why he's doing it which is what's creating the driving force here. The AV Club already put it better than I could.
Pretending that Chuck gave two shits about Mesa Verde is disingenuous when he only sprung into action personally after finding out that Kim was quitting to do something with Jimmy, and Howard was incredibly crafty with the words he chose upon talking to Chuck about it, since he never mentioned that they weren't intending on becoming partners. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Chuck assumed that Mesa Verde moving over to Kim meant that Jimmy would have to be involved in the business which is a double whammy on his front, robbing Jimmy of the satisfaction of Kim being successful and also assuming he's robbing Jimmy of a legitimate major case.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Ironically, we just now hit Season 2 Episode 8 and Breaking Bad just would have just aired 'Better Caul Saul'
I don't really get it. They got Mesa Verde back because that's the purpose of being a company - wasn't really roundabout either, just a meeting.
Everything they're doing has an obvious purpose, something personal, that helps them achieve their own goals. Work is cool that way, slaving in retail is not
blazenumb1
Member
I don't think anyone could argue that Chuck wasn't doing what any company would do in response to a large client potentially going elsewhere. The point is I don't see him going to the meeting if Howard doesn't mention that Kim was going in business with Jimmy. I honestly see him telling Howard to do everything in his power to keep them and leaving it at that if they left.
He knows that Kim obviously won't have any clients yet and making sure she doesn't have Mesa Verde will drive a wedge between her and Jimmy(causing him to "slip" and do something stupid) and/or make her second guess working with him. Jimmy is no saint but Chuck won't rest until Jimmy is no longer practicing law and only works a job that keeps him a down like a mail clerk.
This is so dull. How can the people that made Breaking Bad have made this?
Every one of my friends and family have quit watching. It's just me left.
I want to stop watching but I like the characters of Saul (not Jimmy) and Mike so much that each week before it comes on I get excited again. Only to be mostly bored for a hour.
Every one of my friends and family have quit watching. It's just me left.
I want to stop watching but I like the characters of Saul (not Jimmy) and Mike so much that each week before it comes on I get excited again. Only to be mostly bored for a hour.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
He started the meeting with being positive to Kim and then circling back to his firm's knowledge. At the start even Howard was thrown trying to figure out what Chuck was doing. Chuck's guilt for screwing Jimmy manifests itself in his condition and after it was done he goes nearly comatose. Jimmy showed up after he got Kim demoted to file review, and now Jimmy finds out he pulled the rug out from Kim, he's definitely coming back. It's the perfect trap Jimmy tells Ernie to leave and the case files for Mesa Verde are right there with Chuck on the couch. Chuck doesn't have to do a thing but he effectively led Jimmy to temptation and let "Slippin' Jimmy" take over.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I dunno, I love it. but I preferred Mad Men to Breaking Bad (both great, but Mad Men was by far my favorite of the two) and this is essentially Mad Men in the Breaking Bad universe.
Spectral Glider
Member
Yeah, you said this already last week. Not sure what your friends and family have to do with the people in here who are watching, enjoying and discussing. If you don't want to watch anymore, then stop.
When the hell did this become a rule? Chuck's largest episode was when he was hospitalized when the cops barged in. Jimmy was completely absent in that situation. And nothing happened when he screwed Jimmy out of HHM.
Ah yes, devious chuck, who psychically compelled Ernie from his comatose state using his third eye to call Jimmy and inform him of his condition and to come over. Then of course he knew that Ernie would leave, even though he had express orders not to do so, practically handing Jimmy his opportunity. Because of course it was a temptation, why else would chuck leave those files there, just for Jimmy. I mean, it's not like he has (or believes himself to have) a condition that prevents him from getting work done anywhere but his own electricless home. And so successful is his ploy that Jimmy is probably going to get away with it, because as of now, Chuck has zero evidence that it wasn't his own screw up, not even for himself.
That dastardly, wily Chuck, always plotting against poor Jimmy who'd never hurt a soul if chuck didn't force him to.
STILLethal
Member
This was the best episode of the season, maybe of all of BCS. The way each scene transitioned, from the beginning to end, was perfect.
I think Chuck has a reason to why he's so against Jimmy, he obviously still believes that Jimmy is a big reason for their father's sickness and death.
Idk, I like Jimmy, but he seems to affect everyone negatively around him through his actions, kinda like Walter did.
Also - Howard's actor, omfg never wanted to punch someone so much, he's so good at acting the prick Howard is, got me thinking that maybe he's like that in real life as well.
I'm still not convinced he'll pay off Kim's $15k student loan debt after she tried to steal a client from them.
I think Chuck has a reason to why he's so against Jimmy, he obviously still believes that Jimmy is a big reason for their father's sickness and death.
Idk, I like Jimmy, but he seems to affect everyone negatively around him through his actions, kinda like Walter did.
Also - Howard's actor, omfg never wanted to punch someone so much, he's so good at acting the prick Howard is, got me thinking that maybe he's like that in real life as well.
I'm still not convinced he'll pay off Kim's $15k student loan debt after she tried to steal a client from them.
Robot Pants
Member
It's a shame you aren't enjoying an incredible show that's easily already on par with Breaking bad after only 1 and a half seasons. I'm my opinion it's actually better.
We must be watching two different tv shows. This is easily the best show on tv for me now, and as much as I loved BB, this tops it. The characterization,casting, music and the little details are so on point. I'm hooked. I'm genuinely baffled how anyone could be bored.
I agree with earlier posters that Chuck wouldn't have gone to the meeting if Howard hadn't mentioned Jimmy partnering up with Kim. Chuck plays by the rules but hes not as warm or compassionate as Jimmy. Also I quite like Howard's actor too. Hes really grown on me over the series. Seehorn is also hitting it out of the park.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Outstanding episode. The kinda of episode that just builds up heat for season the finale.
There was a hint the stock trader Kim and Jimmy ripped off is the son of the Mesa Verde's CEO.
There was a hint the stock trader Kim and Jimmy ripped off is the son of the Mesa Verde's CEO.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Great episode once again. So nice to see Kim and Jimmy like that, but sad at the same time because we know it's not going to last.
But this Mesa Verde thing, they are a bank. But in what way are they a client for Howard? This might be a newbie question, but I'm not familiar at all with the law firm stuff.
Oh and Saul copying those documents, what exactly is this going to do? He changed the location but I miss the point. Yeah dumb ol me.
But this Mesa Verde thing, they are a bank. But in what way are they a client for Howard? This might be a newbie question, but I'm not familiar at all with the law firm stuff.
Oh and Saul copying those documents, what exactly is this going to do? He changed the location but I miss the point. Yeah dumb ol me.
Oh and Saul copying those documents, what exactly is this going to do? He changed the location but I miss the point. Yeah dumb ol me.
Jimmy switched the last numbers the year of a case that would be relevant to their case. It looks like an amateur mistake, which night be alright once, but he made it on every document of significance. It will make chuck look all but senile, the Mesa Verde clients see he isn't the expert they initially thought, they go back to Kim.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I thought he was changing the address of a property?
So perhaps something embarrassing happens to the bank when they go to take some public action.
So perhaps something embarrassing happens to the bank when they go to take some public action.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
It was the address of the property.
Meaning the property they intend to expand to is no longer listed on the documents correctly.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I give this episode two thumbs up up to Chuck's asshole.
He may very well be the biggest jerk on TV.
He may very well be the biggest jerk on TV.
Oh, I see. My mistake then, but otherwise, yeah, same effect. Chuck looks like he's an incompetent.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Or it will blow up right into Kim's face because this show is all about denying happy endings.
Six years before if I'm not mistaken (in season 1).
The character has been portrayed by 3 different actresses at this point (one in BB, two in BCS).
Daria Morgendorffer
Member
Man Rhea Seehorn can act. When she tought she landed Mesa Verde... genuine happiness. At that point it's clear she's gonna lose it again though. Loved Mike's little smirk when he was staking out Salamanca.
There's so much buildup in every plotline, the finale for this season will be something else.
There's so much buildup in every plotline, the finale for this season will be something else.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
-- Said this last week but if you're still bored by BCS, this show just isn't going to satisfy you. We're 18 episodes into what will probably be a 50-show run. You know the ending, or at least where the two main characters end up. You know where we are, you know where we're going. If you are not utterly compelled already, I don't know what to tell you.
-- The earlier comparison between Chuck and Skyler is really astute in that they occupy this interesting space of morally / lawful people opposed to the principal protagonist. I like this reading a lot because the audience becomes the subject, but let me push back on this. Skyler was always worried first about Walter's health and mental health, her son, her family ... at least until Walter crossed some Rubicon of unacceptable threats to each. But can anyone say that about Chuck? Everything we see now shows that Chuck is 100% focused on a personal vendetta in punishing or holding back Jimmy from success.
-- That said BCS could do some really neat things to bring Jimmy into focus as more of the fall-from-grace figure that Walter becomes to make us questions our initial assessment of Chuck. Perhaps they reveal Jimmy's thievery to be much more prolific than we already understand. Perhaps Jimmy is directly involved in Chuck's wife no longer being around. We already know Jimmy becomes Saul, but what if this descent actually mirrors Walter to Heisenberg's descent in the audience's eventual derision? That would be really neat, especially considering the 'haha hey funny but harmless' character we see in the BB world.
-- Has anyone really noticed the parallels between the two shows? A flawed character with flawed relationships finds his career in a crossroads as he discovers his true nature, undermining existing relationships while also tainting the soul / bringing down a somewhat innocent character along the way. Jimmy is Walter. Chuck is Skyler. Kim is Jesse. (!!)
-- The earlier comparison between Chuck and Skyler is really astute in that they occupy this interesting space of morally / lawful people opposed to the principal protagonist. I like this reading a lot because the audience becomes the subject, but let me push back on this. Skyler was always worried first about Walter's health and mental health, her son, her family ... at least until Walter crossed some Rubicon of unacceptable threats to each. But can anyone say that about Chuck? Everything we see now shows that Chuck is 100% focused on a personal vendetta in punishing or holding back Jimmy from success.
-- That said BCS could do some really neat things to bring Jimmy into focus as more of the fall-from-grace figure that Walter becomes to make us questions our initial assessment of Chuck. Perhaps they reveal Jimmy's thievery to be much more prolific than we already understand. Perhaps Jimmy is directly involved in Chuck's wife no longer being around. We already know Jimmy becomes Saul, but what if this descent actually mirrors Walter to Heisenberg's descent in the audience's eventual derision? That would be really neat, especially considering the 'haha hey funny but harmless' character we see in the BB world.
-- Has anyone really noticed the parallels between the two shows? A flawed character with flawed relationships finds his career in a crossroads as he discovers his true nature, undermining existing relationships while also tainting the soul / bringing down a somewhat innocent character along the way. Jimmy is Walter. Chuck is Skyler. Kim is Jesse. (!!)
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
http://www.amc.com/shows/better-cal...8/making-of-episode-208-better-call-saul-fifi
That opening shot was accomplished with "combination crane, steady came, grip tricks / (like a golf cart / camera dolly on tracks thing)"
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As an aside, I love the parallel of this opening shot and how creative it is to the creative solutions Jimmy finds to filming his commercials.
That opening shot was accomplished with "combination crane, steady came, grip tricks / (like a golf cart / camera dolly on tracks thing)"
###
As an aside, I love the parallel of this opening shot and how creative it is to the creative solutions Jimmy finds to filming his commercials.
I know we're going towards Saul and Saul is entertaining and fun. The glimpse we had of Saul when he was inventing the story about the pie was great. Mainly I'm watching for the Mike, Tuco, and Hector story now. So I was really disappointed that Mike didn't do much this week. I'm just not too into the lawyer firm dealings. I did enjoy Chuck's pitch though.
Sorry for not liking your show. I'm not saying anything about the people in here watching, enjoying, and discussing. I'm talking about me. I'm saying I've been more patient than most I know in sticking with it. I may say it next week too. I can't quit watching before Gus shows up. And who knows when Jimmy will turn into Saul. I'm also interested in the Mike storyline.
EdibleExplosives
Member
Yeah, I can't see how anyone can argue that Chuck only did what he did for the company. He risked his own health and well being after he heard that Jimmy was somewhat involved.
Chuck's not an evil character, he clearly doesn't like Jimmy's illegal way of doing things. But there's also jealousy there, which has been hinted at throughout the show.
Also, Chuck made Kim sad. Fuck Chuck.
Chuck's not an evil character, he clearly doesn't like Jimmy's illegal way of doing things. But there's also jealousy there, which has been hinted at throughout the show.
Also, Chuck made Kim sad. Fuck Chuck.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
18 episodes in, it's time to acknowledge this is a show that uses lawyer firm dealings to illuminate character arcs.
I think it's 100% awesome to be critical of art. However I don't think that's what your comments are and promises to do more of the same are more or less explicitly trolling / begging for attention without an honest intention of dialogue.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Chuck did not do anything unethical. He acted within the Bar Association rules. He would have acted the same way regardless of who the competing attorneys were.
Langdon Alger
Banned
What if we're moderately compelled?
EdibleExplosives
Member
I didn't say he did anything unethical. You honestly think he would have went to speak with them, around all that electricity, if Jimmy wasn't involved? He's risking, from his viewpoint, his own health for one client.
The problem with the Fuck Chuck movement, similar to the Fuck Skyler and even the Yay Walter movements is that they boil down the characters to baser components than what the show gives us. True, Chuck is being a jackass, and he does go out of his way but he also wants to help his brother and cares for him.
These antithetical concepts are embedded within the same person make for a very interesting dynamic with Jimmy. He loves and hates his brother, wishes him success, but not as a lawyer, he does it because he knows he'll cause harm to the people around him with his exploitation of the law, but also envies his ability to do so. And all that makes for an interesting character, but not if you ignore one side just to support a caricaturized version of the character that fits preconceptions of him being a good or bad person. I mean, already we have people thinking chuck maliciously intended for Jimmy to mess with the Mesa Verde files, despite the impossibility of the claim.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Having worked in a large law firm, yes.
I worked for a partner who would call clients from his hospital bed.
this is the classical Gilligan character conflict: morally bent characters with hearts of gold and vice versa
EdibleExplosives
Member
I wasn't being serious with the 'fuck chuck'. I thought that was pretty obvious since I said it after just saying that Chuck clearly isn't evil or just doing this out of jealousy.
Unless of course you're agreeing with me and expanding upon that, and I've misunderstood.
I have to completely disagree. The only time we've seen Chuck do this, and 'power through' as he did, is coincidentally about a firm that he feels could fall into the hands of Jimmy. If I'm not mistaken, Howard is also vague about the professional relationship between Jimmy and Kim's firms.
I'm not saying he did it just because of Jimmy. But he was clearly a factor.
I have a feeling you would say that about any negative opinion on the show. I don't think the entire series will be lawyer firm dealings, well I hope not. At some point he will become a criminal lawyer. At some point he will he will have to combine with the Mike story. Going into this season, it looked like he was already at that point. It looked like he was done with firms. I was so happy about that.
Agreed. The writers and actors go out of their way to paint everything with shades of grey but people insist on seeing black and white.
edit: not you, EdibleExplosives, but viewers who see Chuck as some sort of mustache-twirling villain.
In the specific context of Chuck and the show, do you believe he would zone out, walk straight to the wardrobe, grab a suit without space blanket lining and tell Howard to set up a meeting immediately with phones and lights on if Jimmy wasn't involved?
He clearly changes his expression and body language in that scene after Howard mentions Jimmy.
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