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[HardRojo]

Someone better provide us with the tune that played during that intro. It was smooth as fuck.

 

[TheSecondSpitter]

Agreed. The writers go out of their way to paint everything with shades of grey but people insist on seeing black and white.


In the specific context of Chuck and the show, do you believe he would zone out, walk straight to the wardrobe, grab a suit without space blanket lining and tell Howard to set up a meeting immediately with phones and lights on if Jimmy wasn't involved?

He clearly changes his expression and body language in that scene after Howard mentions Jimmy.

But Mesa Verde was not Jimmy's client. They were Kim's. Kim had already given her notice. She was going to work with Jimmy regardless. In an earlier episode they mention that Mesa Verde's matter would generate at least 2-3 years worth of work. That's over $2M in legal fees. Most law firm partners would sell-out their own mothers for a client of that size.

Perhaps he had extra motivation because Jimmy was involved, but as he mentioned to Hamlin he was getting progressively better. Perhaps Gilligan wanted to give the impression that he went out of his way to spite Jimmy but the reality is very different.

 

[PantherLotus]

Chuck did not do anything unethical. He acted within the Bar Association rules. He would have acted the same way regardless of who the competing attorneys were.

Here is a really long treatise on the differences between being unethical and being an asshole. He's an asshole who acted ethically and it just so happened to really fuck over his brother, which he accidentally does again and again. HMMM.

What if we're moderately compelled?

i'll allow it dot gif

 

[Lucky Seven]

This is so dull. How can the people that made Breaking Bad have made this?

Every one of my friends and family have quit watching. It's just me left.

I want to stop watching but I like the characters of Saul (not Jimmy) and Mike so much that each week before it comes on I get excited again. Only to be mostly bored for a hour.

Just wait until the show is over and available to watch somewhere. Once you go through the whole thing without waiting week after week I bet you'll like it much more. I'd just stop watching and avoid spoilers if I were you.

 

[MrBadger]

The problem with the Fuck Chuck movement, similar to the Fuck Skyler and even the Yay Walter movements is that they boil down the characters to baser components than what the show gives us. True, Chuck is being a jackass, and he does go out of his way but he also wants to help his brother and cares for him.

Exactly, a lot of fans treat Chuck as this evil moustache twirling villain who only cares about undermining the hero Jimmy. Chuck's relationship with Jimmy is much deeper than that, but the audience seems to have already decided to hate Chuck after the "not a real lawyer" scene.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I'm guessing that Kim builds up her solo career really nicely for a while, but then there comes a point where it all seems like it could fall apart, and Jimmy thinks he has to do something really illegal to save Kim's career, but it turns out that not only would Kim have been fine without Jimmy's help, but that Jimmy's illegal shenanigans are what actually end up ruining Kim's solo practice, and then she leaves Jimmy forever, and that is what makes Jimmy 100% break bad, and become Saul Goodman.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

This and him seemingly not caring too much that they lost the client until Howard mentioned the Kim and Jimmy sharing an office. If I'm remembering correctly, it seemed like he sprung up and into his closet immediately after hearing that.

Exactly.

Chuck did not do anything unethical. He acted within the Bar Association rules. He would have acted the same way regardless of who the competing attorneys were.

No, he would not. He risked his health and (in his view) put his body through hell just to make sure that Kim doesn't get that client. And that's because he thinks Kim and Jimmy are partners (Howard didn't correct his assumption).

It's very, very obvious that Chuck didn't care that much about losing the client to Kim until he learned that Kim and Jimmy shared an office. Man, it was explicit, even.

No, Chuck isn't a mustache-twirling villain, but he's still a petty, jealous asshole.

I'm guessing that Kim builds up her solo career really nicely for a while, but then there comes a point where it all seems like it could fall apart, and Jimmy thinks he has to do something really illegal to save Kim's career, but it turns out that not only would Kim have been fine without Jimmy's help, but that Jimmy's illegal shenanigans are what actually end up ruining Kim's solo practice, and then she leaves Jimmy forever, and that is what makes Jimmy 100% break bad, and become Saul Goodman.

That's what I suspect too. Either that or somehow he lands Kim in prison (gods, I hope not ._.).

But, this show is anything but predictable, so we'll see!

 

[PantherLotus]

Just wait until the show is over and available to watch somewhere. Once you go through the whole thing without waiting week after week I bet you'll like it much more. I'd just stop watching and avoid spoilers if I were you.

Honestly I think this is a great approach for the this-is-boring types. I binged BB the same way after the entire series was over -- in about one month -- and never felt it hung for even a moment.

 

[Fuu]

But Mesa Verde was not Jimmy's client. They were Kim's. Kim had already given her notice. She was going to work with Jimmy regardless. In an earlier episode they mention that Mesa Verde's matter would generate at least 2-3 years worth of work. That's over $2M in legal fees. Most law firm partners would sell-out their own mothers for a client of that size.

Perhaps he had extra motivation because Jimmy was involved, but as he mentioned to Hamlin he was getting progressively better. Perhaps Gilligan wanted to give the impression that he went out of his way to spite Jimmy but the reality is very different.

Howard didn't tell him that Kim and Jimmy would have separate practices. From Chuck's POV Mesa was about to become Jimmy's client.

H: It's very possible... It's likely that we're losing Mesa Verde.
C: Losing them? We just got them. Well, why? Where are they going?
H: They're going with Kim Wexler. She left the firm.
C: Kim left? Oh, Howard. Well, where's she going? Is it Rich Schweikart? Or did Reeves and Green get her?
H: Mnh. Not another firm. She's going into private practice.
C: What? Well, that's completely... How is she going out on her own? Why is she going out on her own?
H: Well, the why is the why. The how is that she's pooling her resources... with Jimmy.
*Chuck freezes*
C: Kim and my brother... partners at law? He's Svengali. The man is Svengali.
H: At any rate, back to Mesa Verde. I'm gonna try one last Hail Mary. Uh, Chuck?
C: Hmm?
H: Mesa Verde.
C: Yes, listening.
*Chuck starts going to the wardrobe*​

He compares Jimmy to Svengali, a malicious character from a George du Maurie novel that uses hypnosis to control a talented singer for personal gain. The singer in the analogy is Kim.

Would he help Howard keep Mesa Verde in any case? Yes. He'd prep Howard with tips, maybe even set a normal "Chuck meeting" with the usual precautions. But the mention of Jimmy and Kim possibly working together lit a fire under his ass and elevated the situation to a whole different, and way more personal, level.

Chuck sees Jimmy as a complete shyster and would want nothing more than for him to stop lawyering. He knows his brother is capable of literally stealing. In his head, stopping Jimmy from having a bank as a client is almost a moral obligation.

 

[-griffy-]

The problem with the Fuck Chuck movement, similar to the Fuck Skyler and even the Yay Walter movements is that they boil down the characters to baser components than what the show gives us. True, Chuck is being a jackass, and he does go out of his way but he also wants to help his brother and cares for him.

These antithetical concepts are embedded within the same person make for a very interesting dynamic with Jimmy. He loves and hates his brother, wishes him success, but not as a lawyer, he does it because he knows he'll cause harm to the people around him with his exploitation of the law, but also envies his ability to do so. And all that makes for an interesting character, but not if you ignore one side just to support a caricaturized version of the character that fits preconceptions of him being a good or bad person. I mean, already we have people thinking chuck maliciously intended for Jimmy to mess with the Mesa Verde files, despite the impossibility of the claim.

I'm all on the Fuck Chuck but also Fuck Jimmy movement at this point.

Neither of them is a wholly good or bad guy, and you just kind of want them to get over themselves and talk through their problems since they are now starting to screw over other people with their bullshit. But you know their character flaws essentially prevent that, and it's making for great and entertaining drama.

 

[HardRojo]

Howard's actor appears on S5E3 of Friends as the nurse that would be going out with Monica. He basically looks the same lol, I was watching random episodes before going to class and was surprised when I heard his voice.

 

[Walpurgis]

No idea why people are defending Chuck. He's clearly a piece of shit. Yes, he thinks that he's right and it is his duty to save everyone from Jimmy and blah blah blah reasons but who cares. Did you not see the way he hopped out of his near comatose state at the mere mention of Jimmy? He risked his life to keep Mesa Verde out of Jimmy's hands. The show made that very clear. And he hurt Kim. Indefensible.

 

[-griffy-]

Steadicam operator stepped off a crane onto a platform on a golf cart for that opening shot:

 

[Creamium]

Howard's actor appears on S5E3 of Friends as the nurse that would be going out with Monica. He basically looks the same lol, I was watching random episodes before going to class and was surprised when I heard his voice.

And Chuck is in an early episode as well, he's the boss of a company that makes fake chocolate (where Monica applies for a job). I'm watching the entire series for the first time and was pleasantly surprised when he popped up.

 

[Monocle]

Steadicam operator stepped off a crane onto a platform on a golf cart for that opening shot:

Whoa, I was wondering how they managed that shot.

 

[HardRojo]

And Chuck is in an early episode as well, he's the boss of a company that makes fake chocolate (where Monica applies for a job). I'm watching the entire series for the first time and was pleasantly surprised when he popped up.

Didn't know that. I believe there was a thread about this topic but I can't seem to find it.

 

[Fuu]

No idea why people are defending Chuck. He's clearly a piece of shit. Yes, he thinks that he's right and it is his duty to save everyone from Jimmy and blah blah blah reasons but who cares. Did you not see the way he hopped out of his near comatose state at the mere mention of Jimmy? He risked his life to keep Mesa Verde out of Jimmy's hands. The show made that very clear. And he hurt Kim. Indefensible.

It's not a matter of "defending" Chuck, but of reading into the narrative of what happened. Almost every action in the show has more than one layer, the writers put effort into making those layers subtle and it's entertaining to dissect them.

"Chuck is a piece of shit" by itself isn't an interesting read of the character. Of course it matters that he thinks he's right, it's the same for Jimmy whenever he pulls his immoral stunts. There are no heroes and villains, only flawed humans, and that's what makes shows like BB and BCS so riveting.

 

[Grinchy]

I have to completely disagree. The only time we've seen Chuck do this, and 'power through' as he did, is coincidentally about a firm that he feels could fall into the hands of Jimmy. If I'm not mistaken, Howard is also vague about the professional relationship between Jimmy and Kim's firms.

I'm not saying he did it just because of Jimmy. But he was clearly a factor.

Yeah I'm with you on this. Even though I constantly say Chuck isn't doing anything wrong, the only reason he's rushing to the office for anything is to spite Jimmy.

When Howard told him they lost the client, he was almost nonchalant about it. He was upset, but it just seemed like part of the game to him. When Howard told him it was because Kim took the client with her to a joint effort between her and Jimmy, Chuck rushed to his closet to get a suit.

 

[Grinchy]

Also, everyone keeps talking about the intro song, but I need the song that played during the Jimmy address-changing montage. Damn that was good.

 

[Veelk]

Also, everyone keeps talking about the intro song, but I need the song that played during the Jimmy address-changing montage. Damn that was good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWKqwV3PJZg

You can just google the lyrics when the songs have them.

Not as easy with lyric less songs like in the intro.

 

[Freewheelin']

What I love most about this show - and this was just as evident in BB starting around season 3 - is the absolute unerring confidence it has in every single creative decision it makes.

 

[Monocle]

I know This can only go badly for her. She's probably my favorite character on this show too.

Kim's great. It'll be heartbreaking if Jimmy's actions scuttle her career. She's got to be instrumental in the formation of Saul Goodman. I don't see how Jimmy can fully commit to that persona as long as Kim's still a positive presence in his life.

What I love most about this show - and this was just as evident in BB starting around season 3 - is the absolute unerring confidence it has in every single creative decision it makes.

Couldn't agree more. It's really something.

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

Steadicam operator stepped off a crane onto a platform on a golf cart for that opening shot:

man that is fucking awesome. what an amazing shot that was.

 

[Azzanadra]

Chuck's little monologue was absolutely brutal, highlight of the episode by far. Talk about a stealth-brag. Also, an issue a lot of people echo is how disconnected Mike and Saul be... but I can kind of guess where this going to go. Mike and Saul are going to help each other get into the criminal business I feel, whether it be direct or indirect... their fates are tied.

 

[firehawk12]

That's what I suspect too. Either that or somehow he lands Kim in prison (gods, I hope not ._.).

But, this show is anything but predictable, so we'll see!

Easy solution is that he does some work with Mike, angers the cartels, and they try to kill him but kill Kim instead.

 

[HoJu]

I love how this show tells so much through just its visuals.

 

[8-Bit Sunset]

Next weeks promo looks interesting!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9EHSCKDmaw

 

[Lucreto]

Howard's actor appears on S5E3 of Friends as the nurse that would be going out with Monica. He basically looks the same lol, I was watching random episodes before going to class and was surprised when I heard his voice.

And Chuck is in an early episode as well, he's the boss of a company that makes fake chocolate (where Monica applies for a job). I'm watching the entire series for the first time and was pleasantly surprised when he popped up.

He also appeared in Star Trek Voyager

I love looking up stuff other actors did in the past you would never of guessed.

For example Jimmys father in the flashback voiced Kaidan Alenko from Mass Effect

 

[Spectral Glider]

Chuck's not a piece of shit, he just has a superiority complex. He feels that Jimmy belongs nowhere near him on a professional level, and probably a personal level too. And, Jimmy pushes his buttons.

Kim should have listened to Jimmy outside that hot dog joint, could have save her some trouble. Jimmy's address swap move should be a good one as there shouldn't be a way Kim finds out about that, unless Jimmy up and tells her himself. Which, he sometimes can't help doing. Jimmy could have really gotten Chuck if he took a vid of him sleeping on the couch, looking like the human baked potato and sending it Mesa Verde with a note saying, "Here's who you trusted your company with." But that would be way too obvious.

I'm curious to see what the video of the fake army vet winds up as.

 

[HardRojo]

He also appeared in Star Trek Voyager

I love looking up stuff other actors did in the past you would never of guessed.

For example Jimmys father in the flashback voiced Kaidan Alenko from Mass Effect

Now I want Odenkirk to voice someone in ME Andromeda.

 

[Walpurgis]

It's not a matter of "defending" Chuck, but of reading into the narrative of what happened. Almost every action in the show has more than one layer, the writers put effort into making those layers subtle and it's entertaining to dissect them.

"Chuck is a piece of shit" by itself isn't an interesting read of the character. Of course it matters that he thinks he's right, it's the same for Jimmy whenever he pulls his immoral stunts. There are no heroes and villains, only flawed humans, and that's what makes shows like BB and BCS so riveting.

I'm not discouraging analysis, I was just getting a sense that some people on this page were downplaying Chuck's dickishness and wanted to bring this thread back to reality. He's undoubtedly a dick but, as you said, he has deeper reasons like everyone on the show.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

Easy solution is that he does some work with Mike, angers the cartels, and they try to kill him but kill Kim instead.

Nah, there's no way he'd associate with Mike afterwards if that happened. Hell, he'd probably quit working in law too.

I don't think Kim is going to die; I just think that she's eventually going to walk away from Jimmy, and that's when he'll becone Saul.

Chuck's not a piece of shit, he just has a superiority complex. He feels that Jimmy belongs nowhere near him on a professional level, and probably a personal level too. And, Jimmy pushes his buttons.

Kim should have listened to Jimmy outside that hot dog joint, could have save her some trouble. Jimmy's address swap move should be a good one as there shouldn't be a way Kim finds out about that, unless Jimmy up and tells her himself. Which, he sometimes can't help doing. Jimmy could have really gotten Chuck if he took a vid of him sleeping on the couch, looking like the human baked potato and sending it Mesa Verde with a note saying, "Here's who you trusted your company with." But that would be way too obvious.

I'm curious to see what the video of the fake army vet winds up as.

Probably an ad similar to the ones we've seen Saul run on Breaking Bad. I expect we'll see it eventually.

 

[inm8num2]

The awful thing about the conflict between Jimmy and Chuck is that Kim is in the middle. She's the one who's going to get hurt the most.

 

[Brainfreeze]

He also appeared in Star Trek Voyager

I love looking up stuff other actors did in the past you would never of guessed.

For example Jimmys father in the flashback voiced Kaidan Alenko from Mass Effect

He also voiced the Joker in the Batman Returns animated adaptation. I liked him in that.

 

[triplestation]

jimmys cameramen are fucking hilarious

 

[CharminUltra]

Only two episodes left, noooooooooooooooooooo

What am I going to do afterwards.

Been watching some Fargo to tide me over and it just doesn't compare. All I got was some dumb

Spoiler

UFO

nonsense.

The Wire, Mad Men, Sopranos, etc. are way too fresh on my mind. I guess I can finally watch that Hannibal show everyone keeps talking about

 

[zsswimmer]

Man I came into this thread all hyped and ready for the new episode and then just realized about 2 minutes ago that today is Tuesday.

;_;

 

[Monocle]

Only two episodes left, noooooooooooooooooooo

What am I going to do afterwards.

Been watching some Fargo to tide me over and it just doesn't compare. All I got was some dumb

Spoiler

UFO

nonsense.

The Wire, Mad Men, Sopranos, etc. are way too fresh on my mind. I guess I can finally watch that Hannibal show everyone keeps talking about

This is a very good decision. Be patient with the first few episodes. It really picks up later in the season.

 

[RecRoulette]

Caught last night's episode. Holy shit is Chuck an amazing character. Just using sheer hatred and spite to power through his illness was amazing.

 

[bobbyrawlins]

Only two episodes left, noooooooooooooooooooo

What am I going to do afterwards.

Been watching some Fargo to tide me over and it just doesn't compare. All I got was some dumb

Spoiler

UFO

nonsense.

The Wire, Mad Men, Sopranos, etc. are way too fresh on my mind. I guess I can finally watch that Hannibal show everyone keeps talking about

Have you watched The Shield? If not, go watch The Shield.

 

[brianjones]

this episode felt like mad men

 

[Spectral Glider]

Only two episodes left, noooooooooooooooooooo

What am I going to do afterwards.

Been watching some Fargo to tide me over and it just doesn't compare. All I got was some dumb

Spoiler

UFO

nonsense.

The Wire, Mad Men, Sopranos, etc. are way too fresh on my mind. I guess I can finally watch that Hannibal show everyone keeps talking about

The Americans, man, The Americans.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Michael McKean has been in everything. Most famously, This is Spinal Tap (Cliff Main is, too) and Laverne and Shirley.

 

[Klocker]

He also appeared in Star Trek Voyager

I love looking up stuff other actors did in the past you would never of guessed.

For example Jimmys father in the flashback voiced Kaidan Alenko from Mass Effect

Also most famous for playing Lenny on "Laverne and Shirley" in 70's, 80's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laverne_&_Shirley

and then lead guitarist on "this is spinal tap"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is_Spinal_Tap

Haha edit ... beaten above

 

[Robot Pants]

He also appeared in Star Trek Voyager

I love looking up stuff other actors did in the past you would never of guessed.

For example Jimmys father in the flashback voiced Kaidan Alenko from Mass Effect

Wait. Jimmys father wasn't bob odenkirk in makeup?

And yea haha Michael mckean is a famous actor. He's been in a ton of things

 

[Spikematic]

Yo, stopped by to reiterate that this is the best show on TV right now. Utterly compelling in every way. I'm expecting the last two eps of the season to be off the hook!

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Ok, I'm just gonna ask: what's Jimmy doing with the address swap? I can't figure out what the goal is there.

 

[Odrion]

Ok, I'm just gonna ask: what's Jimmy doing with the address swap? I can't figure out what the goal is there.

Make HHM fuck up and look bad.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Make HHM fuck up and look bad.

So he's hoping Chuck et al won't notice that the address is wrong on the document? And that'll make them look careless?

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

I've had my "fuck Chuck moments" but really is it that Chuck is right or is it that Chuck's complete lack of faith and looking down on Jimmy that leads to Saul? Is Chuck's "prophecy" self fulfilling? I mean Chuck isn't completely in the wrong, he knows his brother and Jimmy has shown he's still a con artist at heart but what if Chuck had been more supportive in a non-condescending way?

Those flashbacks in last week's episode with their father gave some insight in how Slippin' Jimmy started to come to be.


On another note, Patrick Fabian (Howard) had a guest spot on the last episode of Grimm. I'm now pretending Grimm is a part of the Breaking Bad universe and with how Patrick Fabian was used, until contradicted it's what I now imagine what happens to Howard after his BCS story ends.