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Better Call Saul S2 |OT| The Truth Is Just A Point Of View - Mondays 10/9c

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B

Brakke

Banned
QuicheFontaine said:
Ok, I'm just gonna ask: what's Jimmy doing with the address swap? I can't figure out what the goal is there.
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Kind of a whack plan. Seems specifically Chuck-targeted: he's already susceptible to claims of incompetency at least as far as Howard's concerned. But like... won't it be super easy for Chuck to demonstrate to Howard that it's a fair mistake / tampering?
 
Moff

Moff

Member
Brakke said:
Kind of a whack plan. Seems specifically Chuck-targeted: he's already susceptible to claims of incompetency at least as far as Howard's concerned. But like... won't it be super easy for Chuck to demonstrate to Howard that it's a fair mistake / tampering?
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yeah I thought the same
and will they really lose mesa verde over that?

the whole plot seemed weird to me from the start. why would a bank want only one lawyer? I know nothing about banks or law, but it seems obvious to me a whole team needs to take care of a bank, one lawyer, no matter how good, is simply not enough.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
Brakke said:
Kind of a whack plan. Seems specifically Chuck-targeted: he's already susceptible to claims of incompetency at least as far as Howard's concerned. But like... won't it be super easy for Chuck to demonstrate to Howard that it's a fair mistake / tampering?
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That's what I'm confused about. I thought someone on here might have it figured out.

Like, maybe Jimmy is hoping it compounds and leads to big repercussions down the road? Maybe, some legal requirement won't be valid with the wrong address and the bank will be found non-compliant with some rule or something? And it'll lead back to HHM and bite them in the ass?
 
S

SporeCrawler

Member
Moff said:
yeah I thought the same
and will they really lose mesa verde over that?

the whole plot seemed weird to me from the start. why would a bank want only one lawyer? I know nothing about banks or law, but it seems obvious to me a whole team needs to take care of a bank, one lawyer, no matter how good, is simply not enough.
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Depends on the size of the bank i guess but i thought so too.

Also a bank could ask HHM to do the work and get a second opinion on bigger issues from kim or could get kim to do the ground work and ask HHM to step in for bigger issues.

If the bank CEO was so impressed by Kim he could have given her at least some work.
 
Daffy Duck

Daffy Duck

Member
HoJu said:
I love how this show tells so much through just its visuals.
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I can't help but think the shot with Mike emptying the sink was a metaphor for his life going down the drain at this point, as we all know what ultimately happens to him.

QuicheFontaine said:
That's what I'm confused about. I thought someone on here might have it figured out.

Like, maybe Jimmy is hoping it compounds and leads to big repercussions down the road? Maybe, some legal requirement won't be valid with the wrong address and the bank will be found non-compliant with some rule or something? And it'll lead back to HHM and bite them in the ass?
Click to expand...

My guess is it's aimed at screwing HHM and more specifically Chuck over with that move that they will end up foul of some law and it will all come back to incompetence on HHM and in particular Chuck because he didn't check the details or noice they were wrong (assuming they go unchecked).
 
I

IronRinn

Member
Finally caught up with this last night. That opening was classic Gilligan et al. Sooooo much fun to watch. We even got a classic Breaking Bad shot up through the inexplicable transparent bottom of a container/surface. Loved it.

The rest of it was just as good. Howard, showing some rare, genuine feelings (that line about his Dad was startlingly honest for him). Thrilling at seeing Kim nail that lunch meeting, and her elation afterwards, to watching, aghast, at the lengths Jimmy and Chuck will go through to undermine each other, it was superb. We get a classic Goodman moment with the fake WWII vet, and another excellent montage. And snaking all the way through it is Mike carefully planning his counterattack. The last shot of that episode was superb. The way they light Banks in scenes where he is straying far into personal violence (much like they did in "Five-O") make him look almost demonic. It made me think of the scenes in the bar in "Five-O" especially. It's like as he prepares we see him strip away the human side of himself. So good. I can't wait to see what happens next episode. It's not looking like anyone will fare well.
 
V

Vlad

Member
Tatsumi Oga said:
But this Mesa Verde thing, they are a bank. But in what way are they a client for Howard? This might be a newbie question, but I'm not familiar at all with the law firm stuff.
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Banks need legal representation, too. While they might have their own in-house council for banking stuff, Mesa Verde are planning on some sort of merger/expansion that requires a lot more legal resources than what their own guys can handle, it seems. They're a client of HHM because Kim set up that meeting a few episodes ago in her attempt to get out of her commercial-induced punishment.

PantherLotus said:
.

-- The earlier comparison between Chuck and Skyler is really astute in that they occupy this interesting space of morally / lawful people opposed to the principal protagonist. I like this reading a lot because the audience becomes the subject, but let me push back on this. Skyler was always worried first about Walter's health and mental health, her son, her family ... at least until Walter crossed some Rubicon of unacceptable threats to each. But can anyone say that about Chuck? Everything we see now shows that Chuck is 100% focused on a personal vendetta in punishing or holding back Jimmy from success.
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I don't know that it's entirely motivated by a grudge. Sure, he's been established as being somewhat envious of Jimmy's sociability, and while he definitely wouldn't have gone into the office if Jimmy wasn't involved (even Howard was surprised), I still think it's more a matter of not trusting Jimmy to do law the "right way". Keep in mind that these guys share a last name, and Chuck could just be worried that if Jimmy completely screws up the Mesa Verde case, he could be known as "that guy whose brother screwed up the Mesa Verde case".

-- That said BCS could do some really neat things to bring Jimmy into focus as more of the fall-from-grace figure that Walter becomes to make us questions our initial assessment of Chuck. Perhaps they reveal Jimmy's thievery to be much more prolific than we already understand. Perhaps Jimmy is directly involved in Chuck's wife no longer being around. We already know Jimmy becomes Saul, but what if this descent actually mirrors Walter to Heisenberg's descent in the audience's eventual derision? That would be really neat, especially considering the 'haha hey funny but harmless' character we see in the BB world.
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For me, we already had a bit of that this episode. While Chuck's treatment of Jimmy while they were both at HHM was one thing, I found Jimmy's reaction to be way out of proportion to Chuck's actions. As others have said, any law firm would have fought to retain a client as massive as Mesa Verde. Regardless of whatever personal motivations Chuck had for showing up to HHM, I didn't find anything wrong with what he said. He never said that Kim was a bad lawyer or lied about her, but instead was just stating his case: he's well-versed in the kind of law that's applicable and HHM has way, way more resources available than Kim would in her law firm that's just getting started.

Jimmy, on the other hand, deliberately altered legal documents in order to sabotage his brother.

Freewheelin' said:
What I love most about this show - and this was just as evident in BB starting around season 3 - is the absolute unerring confidence it has in every single creative decision it makes.
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When comparing BB and BCS, I've seen people mention in this thread that Breaking Bad wasn't that good until the 3rd season, and honestly, I just don't see it. I watched BB as it aired from the first episode, and it was obvious that it was something special from the get-go. But even past that, what on earth do people have against the second season? While I'll gladly admit that the foreshadowing for the plane crash was somewhat goofy, there was just so much good stuff in there. We had the hostage situation at Tio's shack in the desert, Jesse's worst day ever (with him getting kicked out of his house, falling into the porta-potty, etc), Walt's further acceptance of a criminal life ("Stay out of my territory"), Walt and Jesse stuck in the desert, Gus' introduction, and Jane's overdose.

But that aside, I completely agree in regards to the show's confidence. Listening to the Insider Podcast, they regularly talk about how they spend a lot of time trying to get into these characters' heads and ask themselves "what is this person thinking now?". I don't know if other shows do the same thing, but it sure doesn't feel like it.
 
S

Surfinn

Member
Fantastic episode. This is the only show my GF and I get excited about anymore after TWD bombed out this season.

QuicheFontaine said:
Ok, I'm just gonna ask: what's Jimmy doing with the address swap? I can't figure out what the goal is there.
Click to expand...

This was our question too. So his goal is to just make Chuck look like he's fucking everything up? Was he sending the documents to a specific location or just a random one? I thought maybe he also wanted to have access to the client's documents, at least initially.

Also, what's Mike's plan this episode? Was he just trying to learn more info or is he going to make an aggressive move?
 
P

PhoenixDawn

Member
Surfinn said:
Fantastic episode. This is the only show my GF and I get excited about anymore after TWD bombed out this season.



This was our question too. So his goal is to just make Chuck look like he's fucking everything up? Was he sending the documents to a specific location or just a random one? I thought maybe he also wanted to have access to the client's documents, at least initially.

Also, what's Mike's plan this episode? Was he just trying to learn more info or is he going to make an aggressive move?
Click to expand...


I think Saul's plan was to make a minor, yet consistent, error of swapping two numbers in the address to make it seem like HHM is a lot more sloppy than Chuck led them on to be. If they can't get a simple thing like an address right, how could they be trusted to get the rest of the more important details correctly?

Or at least that's what Jimmy is thinking. I don't really think it's a well thought out plan at all, but that's probably the point. He's acting reckless now and this will probably be the (or one of the) major mistakes that finally leads to him and Kim separating and the appearance of Saul the lawyer.

As for Mike, I'm not completely sure. I think he was obviously trying to get back at the cartel for how they slighted him with the whole Tuco situation + threatening his family. I don't know if he intends to directly confront Hector though, or if he's simply going to try to sabotage their operation a bit by wrecking a shipment of drugs (popping the truck tires). I'm leaning towards some variant of the second, but I don't know if that will be the case or not.
 
I

IronRinn

Member
Surfinn said:
Fantastic episode. This is the only show my GF and I get excited about anymore after TWD bombed out this season.

QuicheFontaine said:
Ok, I'm just gonna ask: what's Jimmy doing with the address swap? I can't figure out what the goal is there.
Click to expand...

This was our question too. So his goal is to just make Chuck look like he's fucking everything up? Was he sending the documents to a specific location or just a random one? I thought maybe he also wanted to have access to the client's documents, at least initially.

Also, what's Mike's plan this episode? Was he just trying to learn more info or is he going to make an aggressive move?
Click to expand...
Jimmy is switching the address so that when HHM files paperwork it will be wrong and be one of those small mistakes that can "land someone in court for years" as Chuck mentioned at his meeting with Mesa Verde. Not sure of the specifics, but I'm pretty sure that is the intention.

Mike is looking to hit Salamanca in the pocketbook, I think, and disrupt his operation.
 
S

Surfinn

Member
IronRinn said:
Jimmy is switching the address so that when HHM files paperwork it will be wrong and be one of those small mistakes that can "land someone in court for years" as Chuck mentioned at his meeting with Mesa Verde. Not sure of the specifics, but I'm pretty sure that is the intention.

Mike is looking to hit Salamanca in the pocketbook, I think, and disrupt his operation.
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Thank you. Nice catch about what Chuck said, I had totally forgotten about that. It's the details that separates this show from others. I love how they don't spoon feed you the plot too.
 
S

Spectral Glider

Member
QuicheFontaine said:
Ok, I'm just gonna ask: what's Jimmy doing with the address swap? I can't figure out what the goal is there.
Click to expand...

It's the address of a business transaction Mesa Verde is making, either purchasing or constructing or something. So Jimmy screwed up the address of the actual location by just transposing the numbers, making it look like somebody in HHM made the simple fuck up and then nobody else picked up on it. How much damage it does is left to be seen. May not totally kill the deal, but it will at least delay it, which in the end costs money. And may shake the faith Mesa Verde put into HHM.

And to the people asking why the bank needs the lawyer, they all have lawyers to take care of all the red tape kind of shit not just for lawsuits, but to make sure they are up on things like local regulations, zoning requirements, fees all that kind of crap that a bank doesn't want to worry about or necessarily know all the exact details of.
 
F

Fury451

Banned
PHOENIXZERO said:
I've had my "fuck Chuck moments" but really is it that Chuck is right or is it that Chuck's complete lack of faith and looking down on Jimmy that leads to Saul? Is Chuck's "prophecy" self fulfilling? I mean Chuck isn't completely in the wrong, he knows his brother and Jimmy has shown he's still a con artist at heart but what if Chuck had been more supportive in a non-condescending way?

Those flashbacks in last week's episode with their father gave some insight in how Slippin' Jimmy started to come to be.
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I think the show is more about Jimmy embracing the unfortunate reality that his true talent lies with deception and grifting. It's about embracing a calling that you don't really want, but can't run from either.

The sad part is, is that Jimmy is always destined to become Saul, no matter what he does, or how good his life may be when trying to stay "straight".

So yeah, has nothing to do with Chuck at this point, as that flashback showed. Chuck is right about him sadly.

IMO of course.
 
CharminUltra

CharminUltra

Member
Monocle said:
This is a very good decision. Be patient with the first few episodes. It really picks up later in the season.
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Oh yeah, for sure. Whenever I start a new show, I usually stick with it until the first season is over. I'm excited.

bobbyrawlins said:
Have you watched The Shield? If not, go watch The Shield.
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Already done :D

Spectral Glider said:
The Americans, man, The Americans.
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Thanks! Adding it to the list. I'll need all the great shows I can get during the break.
 
S

Surfinn

Member
Spectral Glider said:
It's the address of a business transaction Mesa Verde is making, either purchasing or constructing or something. So Jimmy screwed up the address of the actual location by just transposing the numbers, making it look like somebody in HHM made the simple fuck up and then nobody else picked up on it. How much damage it does is left to be seen. May not totally kill the deal, but it will at least delay it, which in the end costs money. And may shake the faith Mesa Verde put into HHM.

And to the people asking why the bank needs the lawyer, they all have lawyers to take of all the red tape kind of shit not just for lawsuits, but to make sure they are up on things like local regulations, zoning requirements, fees all that kind of crap that a bank doesn't want to worry about or necessarily know all the exact details of.
Click to expand...

I like how Jimmy chose to do this right after Chuck's "episode"; makes perfect sense why and how he would mess something like that up.
 
I

IronRinn

Member
Surfinn said:
Thank you. Nice catch about what Chuck said, I had totally forgotten about that. It's the details that separates this show from others. I love how they don't spoon feed you the plot too.
Click to expand...
Thinking about it more, maybe Jimmy doesn't know how much of a snafu this will turn out to be. Maybe he just wants to make Chuck and HHM look incompetent, not realizing that this will be a huge deal.
 
T

turtle553

Member
Spectral Glider said:
It's the address of a business transaction Mesa Verde is making, either purchasing or constructing or something. So Jimmy screwed up the address of the actual location by just transposing the numbers, making it look like somebody in HHM made the simple fuck up and then nobody else picked up on it. How much damage it does is left to be seen. May not totally kill the deal, but it will at least delay it, which in the end costs money. And may shake the faith Mesa Verde put into HHM.

And to the people asking why the bank needs the lawyer, they all have lawyers to take care of all the red tape kind of shit not just for lawsuits, but to make sure they are up on things like local regulations, zoning requirements, fees all that kind of crap that a bank doesn't want to worry about or necessarily know all the exact details of.
Click to expand...

But there is no way HHM generated all that paperwork. A lot of it looked like different letterhead and from different people. There would also be electronic copies and a lot of other records showing that something was swapped.
 
C

Clefargle

Member
Sorry but chuck is a monumental asshole. No matter if you think Jimmy is too. Chuck is a colossal loser who clearly envies his funny brother and hates Kim. His sad mental state and self obsession adds to the picture of a loathsome old crazy guy without anyone. He just chooses to take that out on Jimmy because they don't see eye to eye morally.
 
S

sammyCYBORG

Member
I thought Saul's intentions by changing the address was pretty obvious, quite surprised so many people didn't pick up on what he was doing. Not saying "nah nah I'm smarter than you", just genuinely surprised. They set it up nicely.

Also, yeah, this is definitely one of the best TV shows on at the moment. I love slow burning shows though.
 
S

Spectral Glider

Member
turtle553 said:
But there is no way HHM generated all that paperwork. A lot of it looked like different letterhead and from different people. There would also be electronic copies and a lot of other records showing that something was swapped.
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True. But it's going to fall on them to make sure everything is in order when the deal is finalized. Like I said, it remains to be seen how well it works. Maybe Chuck finds the mistake, maybe he doesn't. Does it totally blow the deal up or just cause a delay. That remains to be seen.
 
Grinchy

Grinchy

Banned
Saul is changing the address so that he can buy the property at the new address. Then, he suddenly owns a bank and he can use it to give home loans to people who don't actually qualify. He'll make a ton of money in the meantime and then the bubble will burst. But, Christian Bale will figure it out ahead of time. No one will believe him except Ryan Gosling.
 
S

Spectral Glider

Member
Grinchy said:
Saul is changing the address so that he can buy the property at the new address. Then, he suddenly owns a bank and he can use it to give home loans to people who don't actually qualify. He'll make a ton of money in the meantime and then the bubble will burst. But, Christian Bale will figure it out ahead of time. No one will believe him except Ryan Gosling.
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Or maybe Saul is breaking up the big banks, he's Bernie Sanders!
 
S

Surfinn

Member
sammyCYBORG said:
I thought Saul's intentions by changing the address was pretty obvious, quite surprised so many people didn't pick up on what he was doing. Not saying "nah nah I'm smarter than you", just genuinely surprised. They set it up nicely.

Also, yeah, this is definitely one of the best TV shows on at the moment. I love slow burning shows though.
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Well obviously it was to screw something up with HHM; it was just a little unclear what that was specifically.

I have a feeling it's going to have some pretty huge ramifications for everyone though.
 
F

FantasticMrFoxdie

Mumber
Finally caught up!

Holy shit that intro long-take

Bitmap Frogs said:
Just to point out that Howard tricks Chuck into thinking Kim and Jimmy are going to be partners although he knows well that is not the case.

The man is slick.
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Yep. I was waiting for him to correct Chuck, but then i realized.

Fucking butterfly effect. This is going to cause Kim and Jimmy's fallout.
 
E

epmode

Member
Vince Gilligan has been playing up episodes 9 and 10 on the podcast since early in the season. It's safe to say that shit's going to go down.
 
Monocle

Monocle

Member
ridley182 said:
Oh yeah, for sure. Whenever I start a new show, I usually stick with it until the first season is over. I'm excited.
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Glad to hear it! Keep in mind that Season 2 is an upgrade in every way, with one hell of a season finale.

epmode said:
Vince Gilligan has been playing up episodes 9 and 10 on the podcast since early in the season. It's safe to say that shit's going to go down.
Click to expand...
So hyped.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Ro4bzr3.jpg


1216
 
K

Kickz

Member
Jimmy gonna fuck over Kim again with his silly plans..

He'd be better off just choking Chuck in his sleep..

And Mike is really forcing things
 
S

Sober

Member
Fury451 said:
I think the show is more about Jimmy embracing the unfortunate reality that his true talent lies with deception and grifting. It's about embracing a calling that you don't really want, but can't run from either.

The sad part is, is that Jimmy is always destined to become Saul, no matter what he does, or how good his life may be when trying to stay "straight".

So yeah, has nothing to do with Chuck at this point, as that flashback showed. Chuck is right about him sadly.

IMO of course.
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True, but it doesn't help that Chuck implicitly enables him or encourages him by discouraging Jimmy from rising above it. Jimmy tries, and I am convinced he actually tries the straight and narrow. Maybe even for good parts of his life, but it's Chuck that kicks him down. Even after setting him up as we've seen before.

PantherLotus said:
Ro4bzr3.jpg


1216
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WELP.
 
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