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Better Call Saul S2 |OT| The Truth Is Just A Point Of View - Mondays 10/9c

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S

Shotgun Kiss

Member
Fuck; that was probably the best episode so far. I can't wait for the final one. It'll suck waiting so long for it to come back again though.

This is easily up there with Breaking Bad in terms of quality.

God, I hope we see Gus next episode.


Anyway, couldn't Chuck get some fingerprints lifted from the paperwork? I'm sure the big cheese at a major law firm would have connections with departments/people who could pull fingerprints. If Jimmy's fingerprints were discovered on the paperwork (which they would be), it would be evidence that Jimmy did something. I considered this after last week's episode, and was surprised it wasn't at least mentioned this episode.
 
S

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
CopperPuppy said:
Yep, scrambled:

Fifi
Rebecca
Inflatable
Nailed
Gloves Off
Switch
Bali Hai’i
Amarillo
Cobbler
Klick
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ridley182 said:
2yGAPCf.gif
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Avon Barksdale said:
giphy.gif
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I think this thread has made me more hyped than anything else on this site ever has been capable of before.

Better Call Saul being an amazing show also helps.
 
I

IronRinn

Member
Saty said:
Dropped the ball with Mike. Why would this very knowledgeable and capable man think the Cartel would involve the police in the robbery? They are going to do deal with it on their own. It's really perplexing why he's so surprised that the cops were left out of this.

Out-of-character writing started with Mike acting dumb as fuck in the way he concluded the robbery. Wait, are you going to leave the driver hogtied right there on the dirt for all passers-by to see? What the heck are you thinking?! Of course somebody is going to see the guy and try to help him and seal his fate. Pick up the driver and lock him in the back of the truck. Done deal. Drivers passing by only see a deserted truck so they have no real reason to stop - will probably thing the guy already called help and left and they just need to tow the truck. There sure as hell won't see a person tied and bound squirming in the dirt figuratively screaming foul play.

If Mike meant for a police car to drive by and see then again he was stupid because the Cartel would leave them out of it and he'll be risking an innocent getting caught in the middle of the situation.

After all we've seen Mike do and his smart approach and covering all his bases, it's damn inconsistent and glaring piece of writing for him to leave the driver tied in the open.
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Saty said:
The question is why is he so interested in knowing if the police came to be involved or not. It seemed to me that he wanted to get back at the Cartel for threatening his family by stealing their money and having the cops dealing with the case. But:

A. Adding the cops to the mix is unnecessary element and he could have done 'just' with screwing them away of $250K.

B. If he intended to leave the driver tied out in the open to draw the cops' attention then he should know he runs the risk of a civilian stopping to help. I'm sure most people who stop would untie the driver and make sure he's okay before calling to 911 but then the driver would have prevented him from calling.

C. If a police car would have driven by and taken a look then the driver could just feed them bogus info or refuse cooperating with the police or the Cartel could stonewall their work so they'll handle it itself. The cartel wouldn't want the police involved in any way.



If Mike was worried about civilians being killed then in no way, shape or form should he have left the driver tied in plain sight. If Mike had in mind minimizing the chances of innocents being hurt then he would have thrown the driver in the back of the truck.
Mike acted stupidly and was relying on the least probable outcome of somebody driving by, noticing the driver but keeps driving and calls the police. It's more likely whoever spots the driver also stops and goes to help him.


There should have only been half the work to be done. Take the money and dump the driver in the back. I'm not buying Mike, as we've known him in BCS, leaving this much space for stuff to get complicated.

(On the other hand, for comparison, i'm not criticizing much Jimmy forgetting to tie all the loose ends because that's part of him and his characterization and what they are trying to say about him).
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Ah, here is the Saty I remember from the Fargo thread! :D
 
D

Darth Pinche

Member
Alpende said:
Watched it yesterday and it was sooo goood. That head smack was disturbing and I loved the shot of Saul and his camera crew walking toward the school, very much like that Beatles album cover. I also dig how Kim fucked over Chuck. After the head smack I felt kinda bad for Chuck though, very well done.
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That head thunk made me jump, it was so visceral. An amazing episode for a great show!
 
D

Darth Pinche

Member
Arkeband said:
10. Klick
9. Nailed
8. Fifi
7. Inflatable
6. Bali Ha'i
5. Rebecca
4. Gloves Off
3. Amarillo
2. Cobbler
1. Switch

S C A G R B I F N K
F R I N G S B A C K

Huh, weird. I bet this is a coincidence, that's a pretty lame anagram.

edit: beaten like Tuco's henchman
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xIlaHRr.gif

OMG that would be amazing!
 
S

Shotgun Kiss

Member
Saty said:
The question is why is he so interested in knowing if the police came to be involved or not. It seemed to me that he wanted to get back at the Cartel for threatening his family by stealing their money and having the cops dealing with the case.
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It wasn't Mike's aim to get the cops to investigate the Cartel. He just expected the incident to appear in the paper, and when it didn't, he asked Nacho if the cops asked it not be reported. He was adamant because he feared the alternative (which is exactly what happened); an innocent bystander got caught up in the events before the cops did, and the cartel killed them.

For Mike, the best result would have been somebody to discover the driver hogtied in the desert, and call the cops. Not so the cops would then start investigating the cartel, but so nobody else would have got caught up in things.
 
T

TheOMan

Tagged as I see fit
PantherLotus said:
-- Howard Hamlin is easily the most underrated character in the show. He's so opaque, but just enough character slips through those eyes at just the right moment that we see he's complex and has a bunch of different motivations, not the least of which is using Chuck but only at arm's length. Don't be surprised if we learn Hamlin is some secret mastermind manipulating Chuck for a while.

-- If Chuck was dead, they would've shown it. I can't recall any ambiguity on dead characters in this ABQ universe basically ever. The number of directions they could go with him here is what's really interesting. Perhaps his internal clock or whatever it is clicks into gear and he loses his electromagnetic allergy. Or perhaps this is the moment Hamlin was waiting for to oust him (and his share). Perhaps this sends Chuck into crazy weird lawyer overdrive and CHUCK is the one that soils the McGill name under which Jimmy has to escape? Who knows, now.

-- I would buy my own last theory there a bit more if Jimmy wasn't so obviously prepping to unveil the Saul Goodman persona with this commercial.

-- The car Mike used for the heist was a rental and was bright blue. It was a similar model, perhaps the same, as his real car, which is black. Not surprised people are confused.

-- Will admit I didn't expect the big arc for Mike would be how hard he still needs to learn 'no half measures.' And boy do we have a long way to go before he's ruthlessly offing bad dudes from here, where he literally cannot pull the trigger. What has to go wrong in his life for him to become that person? We already know his daughter in law and granddaughter survive, so ... ?

-- I do kinda buy the idea that Ernesto -- a darker skinned Hispanic character -- is related to Gustavo Fring. Perhaps that's what FRINGS BACK (the first letter of every show this season) means? Not Gus but Ernesto? (my understanding is that Gus is/was gay so I don't know that Ernesto would be his son, but who knows)

-- Everybody noticed Kim's wonderful moment standing up to Chuck, knowing full well he was right about Jimmy. So she's fully committed to Jimmy now. The best part of this is that she's adopting no half measures and gently prompting Jimmy to clean up his mess.

-- Did everyone notice how Jimmy was bathed in light in that scene, like he was holy and using her to project his innocence? That was funny.
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No lies detected - especially the bolded. Great post.

Also loved Kim dropping that truth right on Chuck's head (too soon?) even though she knew he was right about Jimmy. Excellent scene.
 
D

dave is ok

aztek is ok
Speculation
Mike is going to see Gus meeting with Tio through his sniper scope when he takes the shot. He's going to miss the lethal shot, but it will sour the relationship between the two even further because they'll assume it was Gus's sniper. This will lead Gus to finding out who Mike is and hiring him
 
T

TheOMan

Tagged as I see fit
Monocle said:
can't overstate my admiration of Better Call Saul's storytelling. Character-driven drama can hardly get better than this.

The unfolding of events is so brilliantly written, with tragedy emerging from the good intentions and righteous actions of mutually connected people with intertwined and clashing interests. Every character is treading that gray zone where justification and responsibility are clear at one moment, hazy the next. Talk about layers upon layers of contrasting meaning and delicious ambiguity. This is an incredible show.
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Now you're making me wonder what Lost could have been with these guys at the helm. I can't even.
 
B

BobTheFork

Member
dave is ok said:
Speculation
Mike is going to see Gus meeting with Tio through his sniper scope when he takes the shot. He's going to miss the lethal shot, but it will sour the relationship between the two even further because they'll assume it was Gus's sniper. This will lead Gus to finding out who Mike is and hiring him
Click to expand...

I don't think Gus and Tio's relationship can be soured further than their first meeting. I think Mike is going to cause Tio Stroke - He did see him taking his pills so maybe he does it intentionally or maybe not. I think Gus is going to find out Mike nearly kills Tio, which would have robbed Gus of his revenge. Gus will be happy Tio suffered and will track down Mike to Hire him.
 
T

TheOMan

Tagged as I see fit
Saty said:
Dropped the ball with Mike. Why would this very knowledgeable and capable man think the Cartel would involve the police in the robbery? They are going to do deal with it on their own. It's really perplexing why he's so surprised that the cops were left out of this.

Out-of-character writing started with Mike acting dumb as fuck in the way he concluded the robbery. Wait, are you going to leave the driver hogtied right there on the dirt for all passers-by to see? What the heck are you thinking?! Of course somebody is going to see the guy and try to help him and seal his fate. Pick up the driver and lock him in the back of the truck. Done deal. Drivers passing by only see a deserted truck so they have no real reason to stop - will probably thing the guy already called help and left and they just need to tow the truck. There sure as hell won't see a person tied and bound squirming in the dirt figuratively screaming foul play.

If Mike meant for a police car to drive by and see then again he was stupid because the Cartel would leave them out of it and he'll be risking an innocent getting caught in the middle of the situation.

After all we've seen Mike do and his smart approach and covering all his bases, it's damn inconsistent and glaring piece of writing for him to leave the driver tied in the open.
Click to expand...

My guess is because they're trying to show that Mike is a little...inexperienced/naive when it comes to the cartel and their methods? Maybe he thought once the cops were involved any innocents that got caught up in it would be okay? But that doesn't make sense either considering Hector paid him a visit. Yeah, I don't know.
 
Kadin

Kadin

Member
MrBadger said:
So Chuck should have just been cool with Jimmy's sabotage and accepted that he made a mistake even though he didn't? Jimmy doesn't care about the right thing for the client either, he just wants to make Kim happy.
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What proof does Chuck have that Jimmy actually did what he's accusing him of? Of course we the viewers know but honestly, Chuck has no proof. Did he actually discover something that linked Jimmy to it or did he simply come to this conclusion because it was the only thing that could make sense to him?
 
N

nillah

Banned
Shows getting no compliments from me just yet, after all that's what awards are for.

Looking forward to the season finale come Monday!
 
T

Taborcarn

Member
Kadin said:
What proof does Chuck have that Jimmy actually did what he's accusing him of? Of course we the viewers know but honestly, Chuck has no proof. Did he actually discover something that linked Jimmy to it or did he simply come to this conclusion because it was the only thing that could make sense to him?
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As he told Kim, knowing his brother is all the proof he needs.
 
T

TheSecondSpitter

Member
Kadin said:
What proof does Chuck have that Jimmy actually did what he's accusing him of? Of course we the viewers know but honestly, Chuck has no proof. Did he actually discover something that linked Jimmy to it or did he simply come to this conclusion because it was the only thing that could make sense to him?
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I've met enough partners of law firms to know they just don't make mistakes like that. Especially firms of that stature.

That scene was expertly written.
 
P

peanutbutterlatte

Member
Best prequel fiction ever? I was telling somebody the other day that this is the most fascinating show where nothing happens; stuff does obviously, but it's just fascinating to watch these characters interact with one another. They're living breathing people.

Really glad they got to make this.
 
T

TheSecondSpitter

Member
peanutbutterlatte said:
Best prequel fiction ever? I was telling somebody the other day that this is the most fascinating show where nothing happens; stuff does obviously, but it's just fascinating to watch these characters interact with one another. They're living breathing people.

Really glad they got to make this.
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My exact thoughts the other day.
 
P

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
The Mike / Tio / Gus speculation on this page is fascinating. My guess here is that Nacho is at the center and that Mike eventually has to off him as one last descent into No Half Measures Mike -- perhaps at Fring's behest. I don't think we're close to that, though -- this Mike still has a lot to learn about brutality, wolves, and sheep.

You know we know very little about Nacho, come to think about it.
 
L

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
This show is so good, shame I haven't been able to post live in this thread with you guys for a couple of weeks now.

fuckchuck
 
L

Lautaro

Member
Betty said:
I hope Chuck is dead or comatose, I know that's mean but fuck that guy.
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Ugh, a POS like him shouldn't become a victim. I want people to denounce him like Kim did.

Props to Kim, she manages to be the voice of conscience without being nagging. She's fucked though, no one gets a happy ending in the "Vinceverse" apparently.

On other note, I wish Vince Gilligan would be the one to make an american version of Utopia, I think only in that way it could work.
 
D

Dick Justice

Banned
Doesn't Mike's whole character arc contradict that "Half Measures" scene with Walt? He talks about the incident with the domestic abuser back when he was a cop. Wouldn't he have learnt from that by the time of BCS?
 
R

rekameohs

Banned
Dick Justice said:
Doesn't Mike's whole character arc contradict that "Half Measures" scene with Walt? He talks about the incident with the domestic abuser back when he was a cop. Wouldn't he have learnt from that by the time of BCS?
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Dude, Mike continues to take half measures all the damn time.
That's what gets him killed in the end, too.
 
D

Dai101

Banned
Dick Justice said:
Doesn't Mike's whole character arc contradict that "Half Measures" scene with Walt? He talks about the incident with the domestic abuser back when he was a cop. Wouldn't he have learnt from that by the time of BCS?
Click to expand...

Well he's never listened to his own advice. That's why he's dead now.
 
R

RecRoulette

Member
The ending of the finale should be the commercial Jimmy's been recording the whole time. Then it zooms out and you find out that Chuck's been watching it on TV in his normally lit house, aka he's cured.
 
D

D1renegade

Member
I haven't been too impressed with this show so far, but this last episode was amazing. The show has finally given me the Breaking Bad esque tension I've been craving. The stakes are finally getting high.
 
R

Rabbi_Vole

Banned
Mike's a person, not a T-800. He's going to make mistakes. Maybe he assumed trapping the guy in a hot truck would've been a death sentence.

I love this show
 
T

Tom Nook Sawyer

Member
Lautaro said:
Pretty well?
he was scarred for life: slavery, dead girlfriends, being manipulated, exposed to violence, etc.

He probably is a hermit clock maker with PTSD now.
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That wasn't his ending though;
he got out of the situation and expressed what was clear joy

And hell, things arguably ended well for
Walt too; he died at peace with what he accomplished
 
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