NYR
Member
Well, one could surmise his luck has now run out and this is the end of Jimmy McGill and the beginning of a life where it' "s'all good, man".
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Better Call Saul S2 |OT| The Truth Is Just A Point Of View - Mondays 10/9c
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Well, one could surmise his luck has now run out and this is the end of Jimmy McGill and the beginning of a life where it' "s'all good, man".
Moff
Member
if I had to describe Breaking Bads biggest narrative strength it would be that it always managed to surprise the audience with the behavior of it's characters, but at the same time that behavior was very comprehensible.
as much as I enjoyed this season, I fear better call saul struggles with both. a lot of "twists" were very obvious, like hector threatening mikes kids, how was that a surprise? but it was presented as one. or now the twist with the recording. I would go as far as calling it lazy, that setup felt cheap and very obvious and as a big season finale it was simply a disappointment.
and as far as comprehensible motivations go, I agree with others that I just don't get mike, hector forgot about him, now everything he does puts his family in a lot more danger, he has absolutely nothing to gain from this. it's an extreme measure that does not make sense, I love Mike, but I never really felt excited about his hunt for hector because I just did not feel his motivation.
I also never really felt Jimmys rush to be fired, but that's another story.
it's a very good show and I will certainly kepp watching, but it still just feels like Breaking Bads little sister without real qualities of it's own.
oh, and that note is most definitely from a Gus connection, no way around it.
as much as I enjoyed this season, I fear better call saul struggles with both. a lot of "twists" were very obvious, like hector threatening mikes kids, how was that a surprise? but it was presented as one. or now the twist with the recording. I would go as far as calling it lazy, that setup felt cheap and very obvious and as a big season finale it was simply a disappointment.
and as far as comprehensible motivations go, I agree with others that I just don't get mike, hector forgot about him, now everything he does puts his family in a lot more danger, he has absolutely nothing to gain from this. it's an extreme measure that does not make sense, I love Mike, but I never really felt excited about his hunt for hector because I just did not feel his motivation.
I also never really felt Jimmys rush to be fired, but that's another story.
it's a very good show and I will certainly kepp watching, but it still just feels like Breaking Bads little sister without real qualities of it's own.
oh, and that note is most definitely from a Gus connection, no way around it.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Not luck, charm.
I suppose, but I felt it was all to telegraphed and convenient
Meh, next season better pick up with the reveal of Saul and Mike tangling with Hector + Fring + Hank
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Hank didn't have any connection to the cartel at the beginning of Breaking Bad, so if he appears, it won't be for that reason.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Did Hank get promoted before or during BB?
RecRoulette
Member
Nah. You're basically saying that the characters in Better Call Saul aren't fully fleshed out, which is nonsense.
Yep. Whether he knows it or not, Chuck is now playing on what he perceives as Jimmy's level.
Was expecting a more bombastic finale to be honest, but ina way, it was interesting how it subverted my expectations.
I felt the Mike thing was a bit too shallow of a cliff hanger, and i thought the cold open was laying it on too thick, could've used some subtlety there, but otherwise i enjoyed the Jimmy/Chuck focus.
I like how in this show, compared to Breaking Bad, you have a much tougher time "picking a side", because the players involved are much less overtly in the "wrong" at any given time.
During Jimmy's confession, i could easily empathize with both Jimmy and chuck, in a way that you couldn't really do with Walt and Jesse, or Walt and Skyler.
Not to say that Walt wasn't a complex character, but his dynamic was much more obviously that of an anti-hero, dealing with victims of his actions, compared to Jimmy or Chuck.
I also liked the use of the commercial, kind of (again) subverting viewers' expectations, throwing in it in there, in a moment where Jimmy couldn't possibly give a fuck.
I felt the Mike thing was a bit too shallow of a cliff hanger, and i thought the cold open was laying it on too thick, could've used some subtlety there, but otherwise i enjoyed the Jimmy/Chuck focus.
I like how in this show, compared to Breaking Bad, you have a much tougher time "picking a side", because the players involved are much less overtly in the "wrong" at any given time.
During Jimmy's confession, i could easily empathize with both Jimmy and chuck, in a way that you couldn't really do with Walt and Jesse, or Walt and Skyler.
Not to say that Walt wasn't a complex character, but his dynamic was much more obviously that of an anti-hero, dealing with victims of his actions, compared to Jimmy or Chuck.
I also liked the use of the commercial, kind of (again) subverting viewers' expectations, throwing in it in there, in a moment where Jimmy couldn't possibly give a fuck.
I took it to mean that they're hammy and larger than life. I mean, I'm not a wrestling fan, but I'm guessing if they have as passionate fanbase as they do, they're are some well written scripts in it's history.
I'm really trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and not assume he's saying the show (and wrestling) are all poorly written schock, which is what I take it to mean if he's saying the characters aren't fleshed out, despite his antagonist tone towards me, but only he can clear this one up. I'm not a wrestling fan, so when he says that Vince's characters are like wrestling characters, I don't know how to interpret that without relying on second hand stereotypes, which I'm trying not to do. So I just interpretted it as him saying they're outrageous. And they are. But if his implication is that outrageous people don't exist, and don't exist in large groups,....well, that hasn't been my experience of life.
This show is kind of testing my patience. It seems to follow this formula of "big cliffhanger at the end of the episode! Next episode, lol jk". I still feel like nothing has truly happened yet. So much had happened by the end of season 2 in Breaking Bad. BCS is burning so slowly in comparison. I get that they're two different shows, but I'd like some real excitement every now and then.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
The stakes were very low in Breaking Bad Season 2 as well.
I kind of prefer the low stakes moral decision making stuff to the huge spectacles with villains and everything.
I agree with your general post, to write off Chuck as just a petty asshole is far too reductive, however i wanted to point out one thing here:
Saying that all Jimmy could thing of was getting food, is disingenuous.
Not everyone take tragedy in the same way, and just because you're not completely paralyzed by shock or mourning, doesn't mean you're insensitive or actually detached.
I think Jimmy was trying to lift Chuck's spirit, if anything (much like Kim does with Jimmy, trying to get his attention on the TV ad, taking his minds off things, even if in both cases, it didn't work).
I agree with you that Chuck probably didn't read it that way, but viewers probably did, and that's why some people may find it a bit harder to empathize with Chuck in that specific scene.
I also felt that it was far too overtly manipulative, which i also found annoying and cheap, even though the idea at the core was good.
I probably didn't write that as clearly as I should have. What I meant was that that was all that Chuck was probably thinking, so I was writing from his perspective on, how he sees things. And because grief is a bitch, you can't begrudge him a little irrationality. I agree that Jimmy was grieving his own way, but that's not how chuck saw it, and that serves as an explanation for his further resentment of Jimmy, and that's what I was getting at.
So yeah, I pretty much fully agree with you.
Not everything. Don't forget Chuck blames Jimmy for their father's business going under, which we were shown was not what happened. This is the root of Chuck's motivation to take down Jimmy. Chuck never would've felt the need to snake Mesa Verde if Chuck didn't have the unshakeable desire to fuck Jimmy over. Chuck has worked tirelessly to screw Jimmy over at every turn. Jimmy finally did something that screws over his brother, Chuck can't handle it, because he's the one who screws Jimmy, not the other way around. If Chuck wasn't a total dick, he'd just let this go, but Chuck is diabolical as hell and he's not going to let Jimmy get one over him.
Fuck Chuck.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
During, but even that was largely unrelated. He was promoted because
he killed Tuco, but he only happened to find Tuco by chance while searching for Walt. And when he was promoted, he was sent to Mexico, and wasn't investigating Gus or Hector
Spoilered for the people who haven't watched BB yet.
Actually, that's not certain. That flashback establishes two things: 1. that his father is a terrible businessman and his shop is an easy target for conmen and 2. that Jimmy steals from his father's cash register.
The scene leaves you wondering who had the bigger impact. We have no way of knowing what happened in the next, what, seven-ten years. It's possible that it's not Jimmy's fault, but it's also very possible that he is infact the culprit. And even if he's not responsible for the full 14,000 dollars being stolen, he's clearly responsible for a portion of it. So, at best, Chuck is only partially wrong.
And I honestly don't know how big that portion probably is. Jimmy has shown to be very caring toward his family, but he's also shown that he's perfectly willing to con them like anyone else if he sees it's convenient. As long as he can rationalize it to himself that they're small, harmless cons. He's also been shown to have severe issues seeing the long term consequences of his actions. That Jimmy kept taking a few dollars at a time, which eventually culminated into 14,000 is perfectly believable to me, because while I don't believe Jimmy wouldn't intentionally do something like that, I do believe that he one day found himself realizing he stole that 14,000 without ever actually meaning to.
It's a real crapshoot, trying to figure out where that money went.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yup. I knew what was coming the second he started rooting around in the garage and there were all the electronics etc in there. Then he magically quits HHM and is all oh poor me. Yea that's not who Chuck is. I saw that coming a mile away. I was like Jimmy you moron shut up and don't fall for it. Sure enough he fell for it.
Next season really can't come soon enough.
What bothers me most about Chuck honestly is how, despite the fact Jimmy does shady things, Jimmy always looks after his brother. He takes care of him despite everything, he risked everything to get him ambulance, and after Chuck finally wakes up, he thinks Jimmy just trapped him and is sending away to be committed when that doesn't happen at all. Chuck doesn't give half a shit about his brothers well being, and Jimmy could have had him sent away any time he wanted. I understand where Chuck comes from, but he's petty as fuck and a garbage brother.
I actually thought Jimmy was going to take a dark turn during the end and say "drop this whole Mesa Verde thing or I'll have you committed"
Just watched it. Fantastic as usual. That sniper scene got my heart beating fast. Love the way it was shot.
Glad they didn't do cheap shit like killing or curing Chuck with the fall, turning him into a vegetable etc. Great follow up to the cliffhanger from the previous episode.
Great finale, great season.
Every character in this show is well written and I can see where all of them are coming from when they make a decision, and most if not all of their actions are layered. I see both Jimmy and Chuck as interesting characters who are heavily flawed in their own ways. The relationship between them makes for amazing TV and I don't see any particular point in "picking a side" in a story like this.
Glad they didn't do cheap shit like killing or curing Chuck with the fall, turning him into a vegetable etc. Great follow up to the cliffhanger from the previous episode.
Great finale, great season.
Every character in this show is well written and I can see where all of them are coming from when they make a decision, and most if not all of their actions are layered. I see both Jimmy and Chuck as interesting characters who are heavily flawed in their own ways. The relationship between them makes for amazing TV and I don't see any particular point in "picking a side" in a story like this.
Yeeep.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Don't put words in my mouth, okay?
Half the characters in BB were cartoon-ish and there many scenes that wouldn't be out of place in a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
Sorry you lost me at your roommate, Tony Stark.
Spectral Glider
Member
To me, that's the whole basis of the relationship between the two. Remember a couple episodes back where Chuck says to Jimmy, after Jimmy puts in another stint of taking care of him, "I hope you know I would do the same for you." But the reality is, Chuck wouldn't. Sure, he cares for Jimmy cause he's family. But Jimmy, despite all of his flaws, honestly loves Chuck.
It isn't.
I think we'll really see what kind of person he is next season.
Will he just use that tape as a threat to Jimmy to quit law and stop "tarnishing" the family name, or will he go straight to court with it and definitely screw over Kim in the process just to prove to every body that he didn't make a small mistake.
It really is the closest thing I can describe him to. He was an engineer 4.0 student who was involved as fuck in everything he could be, was obsessed with having high tech gadgets, and partied like no one I've ever seen before. He was drunk literally 6 nights a week, with the exception of wednesday for reasons I forget, he comes from wealth and is on track to making his own millions by signing on with a company on graduation (he graduated at 20, since he somehow managed to get his 4 year degree done in 2 years while still being involved and social), went to one of the best engineering schools in the country, and while he started off actually kind of celebate since he was interested in one girl in particular, when he got rejected, he went on a spree in the last semester I had with him, bringing in girls almost as often as he got drunk.
Alcoholic, rich, hyperactive, engineer, extremely sociable, witty, genius playboy.
I don't know what to tell ya, he felt like tony stark to me. The comparison would be perfect if he had mentioned he invented stuff, but that's one thing that I never found out he did. But he did somehow found a way to run a marathon inbetween all the school and drinking and fucking, so I guess maybe that offsets him.
Tony stark or not, he was like a comic book character. I'm telling you, living with that kid was surreal. One time, he had a particularly strong black out session, and he understood the kind of damage he was doing to his body with all the drinking, so he went to the doctor to find out whats wrong, but when the test results came back, they told him he his liver was healthier than most. Even he couldn't understand that one.
The point is, I've met people I thought didn't exist outside of fiction. They do, and if any of Vince Gilligan's characters are cartoonish, it certainly isn't any of the main cast. I could believe every one of them could exist.
I think he's going to use it against Jimmy but I can't see him wanting Jimmy in jail.
sammyCYBORG
Member
Am I an idiot for not twigging Chuck didn't have a real medical condition?
Yeah, I think I am.
Yeah, I think I am.
Then Saul will spend time in the slammer and get familiar with Frings associates
streetsahead123
Banned
Feels like Better Call Saul is gonna be one of those shows that always reaches a climax in the penultimate episode of a season and then has a low-key finale.
It's called lordosis
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Sorry but I disagree there. You could totally see his attitude change when Howard mentioned Jimmy. There is no way he'd have gone out of his way to make himself sick just to retain that one client if Jimmy weren't involved.
Ridiculous. If that's how you feel about BB and BCS characters, then what do you consider TV characters to be believable and grounded?
Oh, I don't deny that there was a change. But the change was from "interest" to "great interest". I have no objection to the general notion that whatever Jimmy wants, Chuck opposes. But people the narrative that Chuck doesn't live for anything but to fuck with Jimmy. I don't deny that he got extra motivation, but it's disingenuous to say he was all" eh, Mesa Verde leaving, whatever" until Jimmy was mentioned. They were big clients and a major asset to HHM. He obviously cared before and after Howard dropped the Jimmy bomb.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Wow nice pick up I didn't even think of that.
No joke, my heart was racing. I actually felt bad for him.
CharminUltra
Member
I think the most tense moment for me was when Mike was looking through the scope, and then the bug in the background went quiet all of a sudden. That's probably when the person that left the note did their thing.
GuessMyUserName
Member
I don't think I've come to this OT before the finale so this is the first time I'm hearing about a #TeamChuck existing.
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