Best episode so far this season. The Gus and Hector stand-off was amazing. Can't wait to see how they put the screws to Chuck.
#TeamFuckChuck
#TeamFuckChuck
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Better Call Saul S3 |OT| Gus Who's Back - Mondays 10/9c on AMC
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
I caught this last night, completely forgot to watch it live on Monday because of #PeakTV. Another good one. Really liked the callback to Don Eladio's death, with the shot of him diving into the pool mirroring the one where his lifeless body falls into it. The new DP is doing great work.
Also, I thought it was interesting that when Hector and Nacho show up at Los Pollos Hermanos, the camera is all handheld and not unlike Breaking Bad-style. Then later, when Gus shows up and tells his employees to go home, the camera is stationary and locked down, much more like the usual Better Call Saul style. It shows how Gus actually brought stability to the situation.
Also, I thought it was interesting that when Hector and Nacho show up at Los Pollos Hermanos, the camera is all handheld and not unlike Breaking Bad-style. Then later, when Gus shows up and tells his employees to go home, the camera is stationary and locked down, much more like the usual Better Call Saul style. It shows how Gus actually brought stability to the situation.
CrunchyFrog
Member
I think it's interesting the turnaround they've done on Gus's character. Never thought they'd manage to make him sympathetic, even with that bit of menace at the end. Which makes me wonder if/when we'll get to see throat-cutting Gus in this show.
When we first learnt about Chuck's electromagnetic hypersensitivity bullshit in S1 Dr. Cruz I believe her name is (that woman from CSI) told Jimmy that Chuck needs to be committed for psychiatric evaluation. Everything that we've seen from Chuck that was not necessarily in response to Jimmys actions since then have indicated that she was right. Chuck literally stuck foil all over he's living room to get a confession out of Jimmy, once he heard what he wanted to hear all that foil came down.
Chuck is more than an asshole, he lied to Jimmy about he's mothers last words and Chuck clearly didn't give a fuck. Forget the fact that he stopped Jimmy from getting a job at he's firm, but from a family perspective he's been in the wrong from the beginning.
I hope that the contact Mike stole from Chucks phone book is Dr. Cruz!
Mike seemed legitimately horrified by that, and even instinctively pulled his gun on Gus. I don't think it's a side that Mike will see at all, at the very least.
UltimaPooh
Member
What? Gus was completely sympathetic in Breaking Bad.
Daffy Duck
Member
Dude, that was his cover all along. Nobody would suspect Gus, hell he even goes right into the DEA office and hob nobs with Hank.
This is showing us that even more, but we know he has a very dark side when crossed on his business.
But he makes the best fried chicken in town!
I'm not so sure about that. I don't think Kim would sign off on something as illegal as stealing/destroying the tape.
I'd like to think they have something more clever in mind.
Hobbestetrician
Member
#TeamErnie
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
It's hard to sympathize with him because even when he's right he has a grudge and makes things personal.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I wonder if the German fast food conglomerate is going to show up.
Fried Food
Banned
#Teamthekidsontheskateboardsthatgottheirlegsbroke
#Teamthatoneguythatworksforhectorbutalsohashisownsidehustleandletthatmotherandchildleavetherestaurantwhenhectorshowedupathermanos
#Teamthatoneguythatworksforhectorbutalsohashisownsidehustleandletthatmotherandchildleavetherestaurantwhenhectorshowedupathermanos
MafiaMurderBag
Member
The development of Gus at this point in the Chronology is fascinating to say the least. Loved how we get glimpses into his Charisma, charm & ability to Manipulate, it's in it's infancy compared to the fully formed tyranny he displays in BB.
This was especially apparent in the LPH scene where he's re-assuring his staff with a clearly on the fly rallying cry. He's not completely sure of himself or his ability to influence to the extent of BB yet but he's still got a talent for it.
Also, maybe I'm missing something, I can't remember if it was ever established how Hector became Wheelchair bound & Vegetated.. But I liked the line from Gus in reference to Hector, "A bullet to the head will be too humane.." Maybe Gus causes that chronic Wheelchair suffering of Hector at some point in Revenge?
This was especially apparent in the LPH scene where he's re-assuring his staff with a clearly on the fly rallying cry. He's not completely sure of himself or his ability to influence to the extent of BB yet but he's still got a talent for it.
Also, maybe I'm missing something, I can't remember if it was ever established how Hector became Wheelchair bound & Vegetated.. But I liked the line from Gus in reference to Hector, "A bullet to the head will be too humane.." Maybe Gus causes that chronic Wheelchair suffering of Hector at some point in Revenge?
MegaManTrigger
Banned
There was some implication of a health problem when Gomez said "stroke or no stroke, old school gang-bang Mexicans don't help feds" in season 2. Beyond that, there were almost mumurs that it seemed like he had a degenerative muscle disease and no gunshot wounds. But they're still unproven. If someone targets Hector, I feel like Nacho would be a pretty good candidate considering we never see him in Breaking Bad and is only casually mentioned by Saul.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Even if Chuck is morally in the right he's just too much of a smug asshole to support
IggyChooChoo
Member
No, but even from Jimmy's perspective, which is as anti-Chuck as it has ever been, getting Chuck institutionalized is absurdly harsh. Like, that's a win against an asshole who's done him wrong, but it's still his brother being put into a literal living hell for the rest of his life. We don't even do that to actual serial killers, much less someone who tried to get another person (rightly) disbarred!
minor effort
Banned
The most fitting comeuppance for Chuck would be his shenanigans ending in his own disbarment instead of Jimmy's.
IggyChooChoo
Member
I strongly agree.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
One thing that's amazing to me is that I never really think about Walt at all when watching this show.
Gus, the cartel guys, sometimes Hank, but never Walt (or Jesse).
Gus, the cartel guys, sometimes Hank, but never Walt (or Jesse).
Permanently A
Junior Member
I agree with above poster, Jimmy's endgame is not to get Chuck institutionalized, he wouldn't go that far. I think he will just try to flip the script to get Chuck disbarred. However, I think it will go further than he wanted, and Chuck will end up getting institutionalized, much to Jimmy's dismay and guilt.
IggyChooChoo
Member
I wonder if the final episode will feature a Requiem-for-a-Dream-esque montage of Chuck being driven completely insane, juxtaposed against the crippling of Hector by Gus.
Pyroclastic
Banned
are we still like six years out from the bb timeline? or did they shift things forward a bit. Idk how much time is supposed to have passed from the start of season 1. if it's still a few years away from then there isn't much reason to think about them I guess. jesse would be quite young and not know who saul/jimmy is yet and walter would still be a milquetoast chemistry teacher.
I really can't decide which side of the story I prefer. The Gus/Mike storyline is just as good as the Jimmy/Kim/Chuck storyline, just in different ways. Still my favourite show on television by far.
I find it funny that, now the feud with Gus and Hector has been placed at the forefront, we've got two main characters whose goals are to "take down" someone. It really seems like they're setting up the season finale to be Gus disabling Hector whilst Jimmy disbars/commits/whatevers Chuck. The build-up for both has been palpable though, so good. If I were to predict what's going to happen I'd say that something's going to happen with the Assistant Manager for Gus to bring forward his "plan" and that Jimmy's going to almost definitely go for an entrapment claim to get Chuck disbarred.
Oh, and I swear that Hank was in the scene with the DEA. Just watched that bit again and there's definitely a bald guy there, and it's not unlike the show to tease character returns like that. Might just be me though.
I was watching some Youtube videos about BB a few days ago and it's still strange that all of this is going to be followed by the sheer chaos Walt brings. I think, by making the show's main conflicts that little bit more "mundane" it compliments BB instead of just copying it. Bringing Gus back brings the whole constant life-or-death of BB back somewhat, but not to the same extent.
I find it funny that, now the feud with Gus and Hector has been placed at the forefront, we've got two main characters whose goals are to "take down" someone. It really seems like they're setting up the season finale to be Gus disabling Hector whilst Jimmy disbars/commits/whatevers Chuck. The build-up for both has been palpable though, so good. If I were to predict what's going to happen I'd say that something's going to happen with the Assistant Manager for Gus to bring forward his "plan" and that Jimmy's going to almost definitely go for an entrapment claim to get Chuck disbarred.
Oh, and I swear that Hank was in the scene with the DEA. Just watched that bit again and there's definitely a bald guy there, and it's not unlike the show to tease character returns like that. Might just be me though.
I was watching some Youtube videos about BB a few days ago and it's still strange that all of this is going to be followed by the sheer chaos Walt brings. I think, by making the show's main conflicts that little bit more "mundane" it compliments BB instead of just copying it. Bringing Gus back brings the whole constant life-or-death of BB back somewhat, but not to the same extent.
...and Jimmy changes his working name to Saul Goodman to avoid negative associations with Madman McGill, the shamed, former lawyer.
Notice how Gus cleans up the store after the staff goes home. I think he genuinely doesn't want to involve his staff, he actually does care for their well-being and safety I believe and his speech, although containing elements of bullshit was heartfelt and genuine. I think he really wants LPH to be a successful venture outside of the drug trafficking and maybe the one real passion in his life beyond fucking up Hector. My opinion of Gus, and Walter, has changed during this season particularly - Walt really did fuck up a lot of people's lives, people who although they were 'bad guys' were doing what they did with a code of ethics and a professionalism that a wild-card like Walt could never work within. Like Mike said - They all had a good thing going until Walt fucked it up. Mike and his family, Gus and his LPH empire, Hank, Marie, Skyler, Jr, Sanchez, Jessie & more. All fucked up because of Walt's shenanigans.
I love this show, it's the best prequel ever made imo as it enhances and tints BB in ways that make BB even more impactful.
Morally better? What kind of morals do you have?
The one where the law is always right and fuck you if you get in its way.
Chuck is lawful evil incarnate.
Skylar and Chuck are coming from two different places. Skylar wants whats best for her family, Chuck wants whats best for his pride and values (regarding the "right" way to live). Skylar is closer to Jimmy in motivation like Walt is to Chuck.
BobTheFork
Member
Also Chuck is represented as a bad ass lawyer who was at the top of his game at a MAJOR firm and is now having serious difficulty, his cuntyness aside.
Out first taste of Skyler was an Ebay trader who thinks she's a writer and does a reverse lookup on the first phone call Walt gets that's even mildly suspicious, not having at reason to be suspicious at the time.
Even aside form their motivation, they were NOT set up on equal footing
I ended up liking Skylar but they set up her as a terrible, annoying character with her intro and it hurt the character and people's response to her for the rest of the show.
Out first taste of Skyler was an Ebay trader who thinks she's a writer and does a reverse lookup on the first phone call Walt gets that's even mildly suspicious, not having at reason to be suspicious at the time.
Even aside form their motivation, they were NOT set up on equal footing
I ended up liking Skylar but they set up her as a terrible, annoying character with her intro and it hurt the character and people's response to her for the rest of the show.
It's kind of wierd that people are drawing this artificial divide between the law and morality. I'm not saying that no such divide exists, it's just that it usually pertains to situations where the law is needless fiddling that doesn't actually produce a positive effect on the world. Jaywalking is a harmless violation of the law in many examples. Meanwhile, something like police using their knowledge to corner someone who isn't causing any actual harm is a divide between morality and legality.
I don't see what the moral argument for what Jimmy is supposed to be doing. Is anyone going to argue that he 'morally' defrauded Mesa Verde?
I don't see what the moral argument for what Jimmy is supposed to be doing. Is anyone going to argue that he 'morally' defrauded Mesa Verde?
Nope, I laughed hard at that part, Mike's no fucks given face made it even better.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Of course what he did was wrong. But he did it for the right reasons.
Dude's immoral, but his heart is in the right place. That's the whole draw of the character.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Into the Light
Banned
So that was probably my favorite episode of the last 3 seasons, It's kinda what I imagined this show to be like when it was first announced.
I could actually watch an entire season if nothing but what goers on in Los Pollos Hermanos. Gus is next level. I mean next level.
I could actually watch an entire season if nothing but what goers on in Los Pollos Hermanos. Gus is next level. I mean next level.
Oathbreaker
Banned
God damn it, that drilling scene. This show is just getting better and better. My fav in the last 3 years.
Er... nope. Not seeing it. I think the draw of his character is that he's funny, he's a guy that gets what he wants through unorthodox means and that appeals to people who like the fantasy that they can get around the rules somehow too, and that's about it. There's nothing "moral" about Jimmy nor does he do things for the "right" reason.
I think the quintessential scene of Jimmy's worldview and morals come at the scene with the videotape and his entire response to it and how he responds to characters expressing dismay at his actions.
The first significant point of interest is his scene when Cliff and the partners are trying to discipline him. He keeps pointing out how the video he made worked and is getting calls. To him, that's the only important thing, not that he made the tape behind his boss' back nor that he runs into potential ethical/legal violations that will reflect on the legal firm he works for. And his response is that he genuinely seems baffled by what they're angry about. "Don't pretend you don't know what you did wrong." one of them says. "....I don't." He responds. This is supported by how he casually tells Kim that he forged false evidence to get a client off and Kim has to tell him that he can't make her culpable for things like that.
Then he hears about Kim getting in trouble for his actions. He's outraged and as a result wants to go up to Hamlin and tell his face off (because apparently he thinks that'll get him to back down) and Kim has to straight up threaten ending her friendship with him if he tries anything. He just seems upset that people are getting angry with him when all he's trying to do is help.
Here's the 2 main things I get out of this:
1. Jimmy doesn't seem to understand why laws exist. He understands that they do, and that people follow them, but when they get in the way of what he wants, he genuinely doesn't see the point of them, why anyone would obey them. Which is why he doesn't understand why the heads of Cliff and Main are mad at him, because as far as he can understand, he gave them what they wanted, so what the hell. Same with Kim. He didn't see a problem with sharing his illegal activity with Kim until Kim told him it was a problem.
2. He is incapable of seeing what the ripple effects of his actions. You can argue that Hamlin is being a dick, but his logic for disciplining Kim makes sense in that she went out on a limb for Jimmy, and pushed him to go out on a limb for Jimmy, and now he looks bad in front of Cliff and Main for doing so. All the heads of Legal firms seem to operate on the power of their reputation. Cliff said that their good name is worth more than any one case, even such a case as Sandpiper which is worth millions. Since all the legal firms seem to agree that reputation is paramount, and Jimmy's actions have damaged the reputation of everyone involved, perhaps Hamlin's disciplinary showing makes more sense. He may just have to do it as part of showing that he properly disciplines his employees and that he takes the bad judgement call he made in recommending Jimmy seriously. But even if you don't agree, the point is that in chasing the immediate end, Jimmy pays no attention to the indirect effects of his actions, and is actually baffled and outraged that Hamlin would punish Kim. Because while he might not see any connection himself, he just never thought of how other people would see it. Again, he doesn't seem to understand that people do not see the world as he does.
As a result of this, he does things that are well intentioned, but he doesn't see that they're actually damaging. Which is why the whole Mesa Verde thing exists. To him, Kim was being unfairly deprived of a prize she 'earned' (treating Mesa Verde as a commodity to get rather than a client with a right to choose their own representation for their own reasons), and all he did was make Chuck look like a bit of a goof by having him make one little typo. That's how he sees things and that's, I think, why he is as outraged over Chuck entrapping him as he is. "This is why you destroyed our family? For what?! For nothing!" As he says, he just assumed Chuck "Would think 'Oh crap, I made a mistake' and go on with my life"
He doesn't see that he damaged both Chuck's personal reputation as well as HHM's (something hugely damaging from how it's presented in the show), cost them an incredible source of income, and did so by betraying his moral duties as a law officer by defrauding an innocent third party. There doesn't seem to be much reason to commend him for doing it with the air of a guy trying to do something nice for his girlfriend. If anything, that only gives Chuck's argument more credence, because not only does Jimmy break the law, he has no understanding of it's importance.
The first significant point of interest is his scene when Cliff and the partners are trying to discipline him. He keeps pointing out how the video he made worked and is getting calls. To him, that's the only important thing, not that he made the tape behind his boss' back nor that he runs into potential ethical/legal violations that will reflect on the legal firm he works for. And his response is that he genuinely seems baffled by what they're angry about. "Don't pretend you don't know what you did wrong." one of them says. "....I don't." He responds. This is supported by how he casually tells Kim that he forged false evidence to get a client off and Kim has to tell him that he can't make her culpable for things like that.
Then he hears about Kim getting in trouble for his actions. He's outraged and as a result wants to go up to Hamlin and tell his face off (because apparently he thinks that'll get him to back down) and Kim has to straight up threaten ending her friendship with him if he tries anything. He just seems upset that people are getting angry with him when all he's trying to do is help.
Here's the 2 main things I get out of this:
1. Jimmy doesn't seem to understand why laws exist. He understands that they do, and that people follow them, but when they get in the way of what he wants, he genuinely doesn't see the point of them, why anyone would obey them. Which is why he doesn't understand why the heads of Cliff and Main are mad at him, because as far as he can understand, he gave them what they wanted, so what the hell. Same with Kim. He didn't see a problem with sharing his illegal activity with Kim until Kim told him it was a problem.
2. He is incapable of seeing what the ripple effects of his actions. You can argue that Hamlin is being a dick, but his logic for disciplining Kim makes sense in that she went out on a limb for Jimmy, and pushed him to go out on a limb for Jimmy, and now he looks bad in front of Cliff and Main for doing so. All the heads of Legal firms seem to operate on the power of their reputation. Cliff said that their good name is worth more than any one case, even such a case as Sandpiper which is worth millions. Since all the legal firms seem to agree that reputation is paramount, and Jimmy's actions have damaged the reputation of everyone involved, perhaps Hamlin's disciplinary showing makes more sense. He may just have to do it as part of showing that he properly disciplines his employees and that he takes the bad judgement call he made in recommending Jimmy seriously. But even if you don't agree, the point is that in chasing the immediate end, Jimmy pays no attention to the indirect effects of his actions, and is actually baffled and outraged that Hamlin would punish Kim. Because while he might not see any connection himself, he just never thought of how other people would see it. Again, he doesn't seem to understand that people do not see the world as he does.
As a result of this, he does things that are well intentioned, but he doesn't see that they're actually damaging. Which is why the whole Mesa Verde thing exists. To him, Kim was being unfairly deprived of a prize she 'earned' (treating Mesa Verde as a commodity to get rather than a client with a right to choose their own representation for their own reasons), and all he did was make Chuck look like a bit of a goof by having him make one little typo. That's how he sees things and that's, I think, why he is as outraged over Chuck entrapping him as he is. "This is why you destroyed our family? For what?! For nothing!" As he says, he just assumed Chuck "Would think 'Oh crap, I made a mistake' and go on with my life"
He doesn't see that he damaged both Chuck's personal reputation as well as HHM's (something hugely damaging from how it's presented in the show), cost them an incredible source of income, and did so by betraying his moral duties as a law officer by defrauding an innocent third party. There doesn't seem to be much reason to commend him for doing it with the air of a guy trying to do something nice for his girlfriend. If anything, that only gives Chuck's argument more credence, because not only does Jimmy break the law, he has no understanding of it's importance.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Finally caught up, was completely expecting Huell to show up at Chuck's door.
Also #FuckChuck. Chuck knows he is wrong because his psychological condition worsens when he is screwing over Jimmy.
Also #FuckChuck. Chuck knows he is wrong because his psychological condition worsens when he is screwing over Jimmy.
Charlie0108
Member
I don't think it will be long before he's back.
We are starting to see a lot more of the DEA now so it makes sense for Hank to appear. Especially when this image of Hank and Steve on set was released last year:
I don't really see the purpose in bringing either Hank or Gomey back. At this point in time they have nothing connection Gus to the meth business or anything like that and the whole drug angle isn't really a big part of the show. They'd have no reason to exist in the Jimmy storyline and it wouldn't make sense for them to appear in the Mike storyline.
Don't they start BB on Tuco's trail? I'd say they could fit in there, perhaps Mike and/or Gus manipulating the DEA to harass Hector's business.
There was some lingering humanity in Jimmy that seems to have evaporated by the time he becomes Saul Goodman. But sure, him being "cute" is the main draw.
IggyChooChoo
Member
Awesome post, Veelk. I agree completely. And while Chuck is a resentful asshole, he is 100% right that Jimmy with a law degree is like a chimp with a machine gun. He really should be disbarred. This issue of Jimmy having huge blind spots about other people and their motivations is interesting, because he is most of the time so incredibly good at reading people. But he's also so incredibly quick to use people. I don't think he's a sociopath; I think he genuinely cared about his family and cares about Kim. I think his sense of justice for the little guy is real. It will be interesting to see more examples of situations that make Jimmy's empathy click from "on" to "off" moving forward, and how his blind spots put Kim in danger.
RecRoulette
Member
Had a dream last night that I was watching BCS and Kim left Jimmy for Howard's identical twin Harold. I hate this thread lol
Did she later go on to sleep with Jimmy's stepfather?